On Aug 19, 3:03*pm, Wes wrote:
> There was a time in the early 90's when HP-28's and 48's were the cool
> calculators among my top students. *I'm convinced that the 48gII is an
> ideal high school calculator, but you can't expect students to buy
> them them when the vast majority of teachers have never even heard of
> them.
>


Has the 48gII inherited the 3rd generation keyboard? Anyway, I still
think the 48gII is crippled by its 81K free memory and no
expandability. It is also impossible to upgrade the ROM -- a true
"Read Only Memory." The 50g is a much better value for its modest
price increase over the 48gII.

S.C.

On Aug 20, 3:48*am, sc_use...@hotmail.com wrote:
> Has the 48gII inherited the 3rd generation keyboard? Anyway, I still
> think the 48gII is crippled by its 81K free memory and no
> expandability. It is also impossible to upgrade the ROM -- a true
> "Read Only Memory."

The "new and improved" 48gII went from 128K to 256K RAM (I presume
128K more free memory?), USB, and upgradable ROM. (Who improves a
product and doesn't advertise it? Why not call it the 48gIII or
48gIIb?) It sells for about the same as the TI-83+.

> The 50g is a much better value for its modest
> price increase over the 48gII.

I completely agree. However, many parents don't look at best value/
price, they look at just price.

-wes

On Aug 20, 9:49*am, Wes wrote:
> > Has the 48gII inherited the 3rd generation keyboard? Anyway, I still
> > think the 48gII is crippled by its 81K free memory and no
> > expandability. It is also impossible to upgrade the ROM -- a true
> > "Read Only Memory."
>
> The "new and improved" 48gII went from 128K to 256K RAM (I presume
> 128K more free memory?), USB, and upgradable ROM. *(Who improves a
> product and doesn't advertise it? Why not call it the 48gIII or
> 48gIIb?) *It sells for about the same as the TI-83+.


Really? I checked HP's official website at
http://h20426.www2.hp.com/product/ca...raphing/48gII/
and at
http://www.shopping.hp.com/product/c...F2226A%2523ABA
and both still claimed the 48gII has 128K RAM with 80.7K free for the
user. It doesn't even advertise the USB port. The 48gII software page
does not include the ROM like the 50g page, suggesting that the 48gII
ROM still cannot be upgraded. Also, where is this year-old 2.10-C?

Either really poor marketing skills on HP's part or they just don't
care. I don't know which is worse.

S.C.

SC Usenet wrote:
> HP's official website [...] still claimed the 48gII has 128K RAM
> with 80.7K free for the user. It doesn't even advertise the USB
> port. The 48gII software page does not include the ROM like
> the 50g page, suggesting that the 48gII ROM still cannot be
> upgraded.

Even funnier is when you look at the packaging. The front of the 48gII
packaging correctly advertises that has 256 KB of RAM and a USB port:
http://commerce.hpcalc.org/images/48...ont-medium.jpg

But the back still incorrectly says it has 128 KB of RAM and comes with a
serial cable:
http://commerce.hpcalc.org/images/48...ack-medium.jpg

> Either really poor marketing skills on HP's part or they just
> don't care. I don't know which is worse.

Probably a little of both. It's so sad that HP has some nice products, yet
they appear to show no interest in wanting to sell any of them.

After all, their web site says the 48gII and 39gs are each less than 1/10"
thick while at the same time saying the 40gs is 157 cm tall. Clearly they
have little interest in making sure the information on their web site is
accurate, as some of these mistakes have been there for years, despite my
having pointed them out to them.

Regards,

Eric Rechlin

On Aug 20, 4:20*pm, "Eric Rechlin" wrote:
...
> After all, their web site says the 48gII and 39gs are each less than 1/10"
> thick while at the same time saying the 40gs is 157 cm tall.
...

LOL, Skis perhaps?

On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 18:50:18 -0700 (PDT), sc_usenet@hotmail.com wrote:

>On Aug 18, 9:31*pm, A.L. wrote:
>> On Tue, 12 Aug 2008 14:50:55 -0700 (PDT), sc_use...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>> >Another interesting fact is that currently on Amazon, the TI-84 silver
>> >sells for $135 while the 50g sells for only $118. A no-brainer if
>> >there ever was one. [Even if you refuse to go HP, the TI-89 Titanium
>> >costs only $140, making me strongly question why anyone would buy the
>> >TI-84 silver]
>>
>> Because it is better than HP50. For high *school student
>>
>> A.L.
>
>For the average USA high school student (who struggles with math), the
>TI-84 is better than the HP 50g because teachers are more familiar
>with the TI and can show their students exactly what to do. Not sure I
>agree with the teaching method (do the kids learn math or just how to
>push buttons?) but it's the truth.
>
>The same high school student can save himself over $100 by using a
>simple scientific calculator (the TI-84's don't do anything that the
>scientifics can't do, besides graph) and actually learning enough
>mathematics to visualize the simple graphs encountered during class.
>
>HP 50g is better than the TI for non-students.
>

Excellent explanation. But I am not student, and I prefer TI or Casio.
I don't like HP50. This is the must un-ergonomic piece of electronic
crap.

A.L.

On Aug 20, 7:30*pm, A.L. wrote:
> >HP 50g is better than the TI for non-students.
>
> Excellent explanation. But I am not student, and I prefer TI or Casio.
> I don't like HP50. This is the must un-ergonomic piece of electronic
> crap.
>
> A.L.


That was my opinion/generalization. You are entitled to yours, and if
you like TI and Casio, then that's nobody else's business. Go on and
use whatever you like.

S.C.

On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 17:44:01 -0700 (PDT), sc_usenet@hotmail.com wrote:

>On Aug 19, 8:10*pm, "John H Meyers" wrote:
>> In my days in a USA elementary school,
>> all calculations were performed
>> by first writing down the numbers,
>> then commencing to perform the arithmetic upon them.
>>
>> That's exactly what "RPN" is, so back in those days,
>> everyone who graduated my USA elementary school
>> (and necessarily even those who taught them)
>> were already "masters of RPN."
>>
>
>How do you multiply two 3-digit integers by hand? You write one down,
>then write down the second, then write down the operation to be
>performed (the x for multiplication). The RPN calculator is an
>extension to the brain -- you enter in the two numbers and then press
>[x] to multiply them.
>
>I can hardly imagine anyone who can just look at something like
>246x894=? and multiply those two numbers on the spot just like that
>(That's the TI way).
>
>RPN just seems more natural, unless you never knew how to do the math
>by hand in the first place.
>
>S.

Oh, yes, yes... And all there parenteses and such are SOOOOO...
confusing...

A.L.

On Aug 20, 6:20*pm, "Eric Rechlin" wrote:
> After all, their web site says the 48gII and 39gs are each less than 1/10"
> thick while at the same time saying the 40gs is 157 cm tall. *Clearly they
> have little interest in making sure the information on their web site is
> accurate, as some of these mistakes have been there for years, despite my
> having pointed them out to them.
>


I guess the 48gII is the new Apple slide rule that compliments the
iPod Nano. The 40gs can be your 5'2" buddy that happens to be good at
mental math. At least the back of the 48gII box (that claims only 128K
memory) correctly reflects that the calculator is not a 1/10th inch
thick razor.

S.C.

On 20 Aug 2008 "Eric Rechlin" wrote:

> SC Usenet wrote:
>> HP's official website [...] still claimed the 48gII has 128K RAM
>> with 80.7K free for the user. It doesn't even advertise the USB
>> port. The 48gII software page does not include the ROM like
>> the 50g page, suggesting that the 48gII ROM still cannot be
>> upgraded.
>
> Even funnier is when you look at the packaging. The front of the 48gII
> packaging correctly advertises that has 256 KB of RAM and a USB port:
> http://commerce.hpcalc.org/images/48...ont-medium.jpg
>
> But the back still incorrectly says it has 128 KB of RAM and comes
> with a serial cable:
> http://commerce.hpcalc.org/images/48...ack-medium.jpg
>
> After all, their web site says the 48gII and 39gs are each less than
> 1/10" thick while at the same time saying the 40gs is 157 cm tall.
> Clearly they have little interest in making sure the information on
> their web site is accurate, as some of these mistakes have been there
> for years, despite my having pointed them out to them.
>
> Regards,
>
> Eric Rechlin
>
>

I think you got their attention eventually, the dimensions look
reasonable now. Unless I was looking in the wrong place.

--
Noxonomus

Noxonomus wrote:
> I think you got their attention eventually, the dimensions look
> reasonable now. Unless I was looking in the wrong place.

Maybe it's right somewhere, but it's wrong if you go to
http://www.hp.com/calculators/ and click the Graphing link on the left. It
(presently) takes you to this page, which is full of errors:

http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en...37-215351.html

By the way, it looks like they have updated the 48gII data sheet to the
correct 256 KB figure, even though the web page that links to it is still
wrong.

Regards,

Eric Rechlin

On Aug 20, 6:20*pm, "Eric Rechlin" wrote:
> SC Usenet wrote:
> > HP's official website [...] still claimed the 48gII has 128K RAM
> > with 80.7K free for the user. It doesn't even advertise the USB
> > port. The 48gII software page does not include the ROM like
> > the 50g page, suggesting that the 48gII ROM still cannot be
> > upgraded.
>
> Even funnier is when you look at the packaging. The front of the 48gII
> packaging correctly advertises that has 256 KB of RAM and a USB port:http://commerce.hpcalc.org/images/48...ont-medium.jpg
>
> But the back still incorrectly says it has 128 KB of RAM and comes with a
> serial cable:http://commerce.hpcalc.org/images/48...ack-medium.jpg

The back is incorrect because that is also the back cover of the
highly abridged user's guide included. The costs of changing the back
cover of a book are significantly more than the costs of updating the
front of the box. On the other hand, I fail to see why HP could not
put a simple sheet of paper at the back of the case before the manual
that looks the same except is updated for hardware revision 2.

Username Localhost wrote:
> The back is incorrect because that is also the back cover of the
> highly abridged user's guide included. The costs of changing the back
> cover of a book are significantly more than the costs of updating the
> front of the box.

I wish I could say you were right, but HP actually *did* change the back
cover of the book when they re-released the 48gII. They updated the
copyright date at the bottom to add 2006 and changed the number/code in the
lower-right corner. At the same time, they introduced the error claiming it
is 1/10" thick (yes, it says it on the back of the packaging!) when it had
been correct in the original 2003 packaging. Why they decided to change
that totally escapes me.

Compare:
http://commerce.hpcalc.org/images/48...ack-medium.jpg
http://commerce.hpcalc.org/images/48...old-medium.jpg

Regards,

Eric Rechlin

Data sheet has still some errors...

"Eric Rechlin" wrote in message
news:6h406qFipig8U1@mid.individual.net...
> Noxonomus wrote:
>> I think you got their attention eventually, the dimensions look
>> reasonable now. Unless I was looking in the wrong place.
>
> Maybe it's right somewhere, but it's wrong if you go to
> http://www.hp.com/calculators/ and click the Graphing link on the left.
> It (presently) takes you to this page, which is full of errors:
>
> http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en...37-215351.html
>
> By the way, it looks like they have updated the 48gII data sheet to the
> correct 256 KB figure, even though the web page that links to it is still
> wrong.
>
> Regards,
>
> Eric Rechlin
>

On Aug 21, 12:13*am, "Eric Rechlin" wrote:
> Username Localhost wrote:
> > The back is incorrect because that is also the back cover of the
> > highly abridged user's guide included. The costs of changing the back
> > cover of a book are significantly more than the costs of updating the
> > front of the box.
>
> I wish I could say you were right, but HP actually *did* change the back
> cover of the book when they re-released the 48gII. *They updated the
> copyright date at the bottom to add 2006 and changed the number/code in the
> lower-right corner. *At the same time, they introduced the error claiming it
> is 1/10" thick (yes, it says it on the back of the packaging!) when it had
> been correct in the original 2003 packaging. *Why they decided to change
> that totally escapes me.
>
> Compare:http://commerce.hpcalc.org/images/48...old-medium.jpg
>
> Regards,
>
> Eric Rechlin

Look again. They were correcting the error in the 2006 version, not
adding it.

However, I am quite surprised they updated the book, and even more
surprised that while doing so they did not update the specs.

BTW, I'm quite impressed by the selection of images on the commerce
site. It is quite rare to see any commerce site with decent photos of
the products these days.

On Wed, 20 Aug 2008 18:59:48 -0500, A.L. wrote:

> Oh, yes, yes...
> And all there parentheses and such are SOOOOO... confusing...

In case any have forgotten, the entire 49/50 series also has the
TI-like "Algebraic mode" (which is the default, out of the box),
if one wants to restrict oneself exclusively to it,
while "RPN mode" meanwhile
fully accommodates algebraic expressions at any time,
thus being more general and ultimately more powerful in scope.

But of course, "trolls will be trolls"...

-[ ]-

Username Localhost wrote:
> Look again. They were correcting the error in the 2006 version, not
> adding it.

You're right. I unfairly blamed HP. I guess I saw the 128K on the one with
0.9 and assumed I was looking at the old one.

> BTW, I'm quite impressed by the selection of images on the commerce
> site. It is quite rare to see any commerce site with decent photos of
> the products these days.

It disappointed me too, that there was no good historical record of these
products. For calculator collectors, seeing how things were in the past
might be very interesting. Plus, from a consumer point of view, it is
sometimes incredibly difficult to see the details of a product before you
buy it if the web site selling it just has a little tiny photo, and nothing
(aside from actually holding the product in your hands) can substitute for a
high-resolution photo.

Last fall I wanted to start making pages about each of the HP calculators to
put on my web site, since HP doesn't have much good information on their web
site. I ended up just putting it on the commerce site; I'll add them to the
main site eventually, but I have some other things I want to finish first,
since the infrastructure isn't there for them yet.

I built a light box (about $25 in parts from Home Depot and an arts/crafts
store), set it on my kitchen counter, set up my tripod and 4-year-old
digital camera, and photographed everything. Then I spent probably 30+
hours writing detailed specifications for each calculator, cleaning up all
the photographs, and putting it into web pages. I also have a bunch of
photographs I took of other models in my collection, and I'll eventually
bring those online too, when I have a place to put them on the site.

Interestingly, that relatively minimal effort approximately doubled my
calculator sales. After the secondary boost caused by adding the shopping
cart in January, I now handle about one order a day. Doesn't pay the bills,
but it's a fun little thing on the side.

Regards,

Eric Rechlin

Hi Eric,

I have been trying to reach you by mail but without success.

Would be nice if you could drop me a mail ;-)

Don´t forget to remove the NOSPAM.

Best wishes,
Andreas

On Aug 20, 7:59*pm, A.L. wrote:
> Oh, yes, yes... And all there parenteses and such are SOOOOO...
> confusing...
>
> A.L.
>


On TI-83/84, definitely confusing. The entered expression just goes on
one line and wraps around to the next if it is too long. All levels of
parenthesis look the same and are not highlighted as you close them.
On TI-89 with pretty print on, this is not as much of a problem.

S.C.

Toby wrote:
> ditto.
better warranty and hardware should be top priority!