How to suggest features to the hp calculator team? - Hewlett Packard

This is a discussion on How to suggest features to the hp calculator team? - Hewlett Packard ; On Aug 12, 5:50*pm, sc_use...@hotmail.com wrote: > On Aug 12, 2:01*pm, "John H Meyers" wrote: > > > But can it play music videos? http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00004TVDN > > > The "user reviews" for the product above are interesting. > > > ...

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Thread: How to suggest features to the hp calculator team?

  1. Re: How to suggest features to the hp calculator team?

    On Aug 12, 5:50*pm, sc_use...@hotmail.com wrote:
    > On Aug 12, 2:01*pm, "John H Meyers" wrote:
    >
    > > But can it play music videos?http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00004TVDN

    >
    > > The "user reviews" for the product above are interesting.

    >
    > > For example, a teacher writes:

    >
    > > * Hands down, the Casio wins, and it is cheaper as well.
    > > * The calculator is more user friendly.
    > > * The options are menu driven in a more intuitive way.
    > > * What took me a minute or two to locate and figure out out the TI,
    > > * took less than half the time on the Casio...
    > > * The color thing I suppose is nice,
    > > * but I use the CFX-9750, which is black and white and cheaper.

    >
    > TI has the USA school system eating out of its hands. Their marketing
    > division deserves some credit though with the TI-83/84 series hype.
    > The original vanilla TI-83 was introduced 12 years ago in 1996. Now,
    > it is still being sold, though re-named the TI-84+/silver. The TI-84's
    > promise keystroke-for-keystroke compatibility with the TI-83, which is
    > a fancy way of saying "We didn't bother to put any new features into
    > this 12-year-old calculator."
    >
    > I prefer my $9 Casio fx-260 solar pocket scientific to the brick-sized
    > TI-84's. I can do calculations faster on the Casio than the TI because
    > it uses a mixed ALG/RPN entry (though I prefer pure RPN
    >
    > Another interesting fact is that currently on Amazon, the TI-84 silver
    > sells for $135 while the 50g sells for only $118. A no-brainer if
    > there ever was one. [Even if you refuse to go HP, the TI-89 Titanium
    > costs only $140, making me strongly question why anyone would buy the
    > TI-84 silver]


    The issue here is the arguably unlawful mandating of a specific
    calculator by teachers in public schools who have books with Ti-83
    instructions, and no other. Consider that many average idiots could
    not do anything complicated with a graphing calculator without step by
    step instructions. (These are the people who have trouble getting into
    a community college). If those idiots had an HP50g, there is almost no
    way the teacher would be able to provide the needed step by step
    instructions unless they were very familiar with the calculator.

    This even hurts the sales of the TI-89. Well, that and the fact that
    some tests ban the TI-89 due to the CAS.

  2. Re: How to suggest features to the hp calculator team?

    On Aug 12, 9:39*pm, username localhost
    wrote:
    > On Aug 12, 5:50*pm, sc_use...@hotmail.com wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > > On Aug 12, 2:01*pm, "John H Meyers" wrote:

    >
    > > > But can it play music videos?http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00004TVDN

    >
    > > > The "user reviews" for the product above are interesting.

    >
    > > > For example, a teacher writes:

    >
    > > > * Hands down, the Casio wins, and it is cheaper as well.
    > > > * The calculator is more user friendly.
    > > > * The options are menu driven in a more intuitive way.
    > > > * What took me a minute or two to locate and figure out out the TI,
    > > > * took less than half the time on the Casio...
    > > > * The color thing I suppose is nice,
    > > > * but I use the CFX-9750, which is black and white and cheaper.

    >
    > > TI has the USA school system eating out of its hands. Their marketing
    > > division deserves some credit though with the TI-83/84 series hype.
    > > The original vanilla TI-83 was introduced 12 years ago in 1996. Now,
    > > it is still being sold, though re-named the TI-84+/silver. The TI-84's
    > > promise keystroke-for-keystroke compatibility with the TI-83, which is
    > > a fancy way of saying "We didn't bother to put any new features into
    > > this 12-year-old calculator."

    >
    > > I prefer my $9 Casio fx-260 solar pocket scientific to the brick-sized
    > > TI-84's. I can do calculations faster on the Casio than the TI because
    > > it uses a mixed ALG/RPN entry (though I prefer pure RPN

    >
    > > Another interesting fact is that currently on Amazon, the TI-84 silver
    > > sells for $135 while the 50g sells for only $118. A no-brainer if
    > > there ever was one. [Even if you refuse to go HP, the TI-89 Titanium
    > > costs only $140, making me strongly question why anyone would buy the
    > > TI-84 silver]

    >
    > The issue here is the arguably unlawful mandating of a specific
    > calculator by teachers in public schools who have books with Ti-83
    > instructions, and no other. Consider that many average idiots could
    > not do anything complicated with a graphing calculator without step by
    > step instructions. (These are the people who have trouble getting into
    > a community college). If those idiots had an HP50g, there is almost no
    > way the teacher would be able to provide the needed step by step
    > instructions unless they were very familiar with the calculator.
    >
    > This even hurts the sales of the TI-89. Well, that and the fact that
    > some tests ban the TI-89 due to the CAS.- Hide quoted text -
    >
    > - Show quoted text -


    We really have a great discussion going on here! When will HP
    call its graphing calculators by what they really are-computers
    or would that be a marketing blunder? I think the graphing
    computer would tantalize the imagination of the high school
    or college student shopping for a calculator. Better yet, a
    hand-held graphing computer, because that would remove any
    ambiguity that it might be a notebook computer. I think the
    greatest strength of any calculator is the ability to customize
    it to work the way I work. The USER mode allows me to assign
    keys but I have to memorize their assignments unless I can
    put an overlay over the keyboard like the 48 series allowed you
    to do. The quality of the hardware is also important to me. The
    black plastic bezel on my 49 G+ cracked after minimal use.
    I don't expect my calculator to endure the rigors of outdoor or
    industrial use but I do expect to get some use out of it before
    it degrades. Finally, I would like to see an HP-supported SDK
    that includes really good documentation for those of us who
    are not professional programmers, computer scientists, or
    electrical engineers. I see a lot of people on this Usenet
    group who are interested in going beyond the User Manual
    and I think HP should support them because happy users
    promote sales!

  3. Re: How to suggest features to the hp calculator team?

    While not HP-supported
    we have hpgcc 2.0 and soon 3.0
    which needs AFAIK a patched ROM
    (may it be official, please)
    AND
    Debug4x + emulators for sysRPL work
    plus MASD that works on the calc

    wrote in message
    news:fc7ec19c-29a5-45af-8306-c14c386ccc90@k30g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
    X
    Finally, I would like to see an HP-supported SDK
    that includes really good documentation for those of us who
    are not professional programmers, computer scientists, or
    electrical engineers. I see a lot of people on this Usenet
    group who are interested in going beyond the User Manual
    and I think HP should support them because happy users
    promote sales!



  4. Re: How to suggest features to the hp calculator team?

    On 2008-08-11 22:53:17 +1000, "cyrille de brebisson" said:

    > hello,
    >
    > not true.
    >
    > cyrille


    maybe only you care .. but is that enough?

    --
    They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security,
    deserve neither liberty or security (Benjamin Franklin)


  5. Re: How to suggest features to the hp calculator team?

    Knowing what your customers are willing to pay for is no easy task,
    not least because there are so many different users, with very very
    different needs.

    As an old example, i remembered having read a complain from land
    surveyors
    when the 48GX was phased out in favor of a much more powerfull
    unit ...
    which lacked a critical feature for them (i think it was serial
    connexion).
    That's the kind of error which makes you loose a complete customer's
    sector
    (now, this is "just" an illustration, i'm not assuming it was good or
    bad, this part is HP strategy).

    This is a job that the Marketing team should handle, if it ever
    exists.
    It wouldn't be the first time that a company is poorly served by
    abysmal marketing though.

    In this newsgroup, we are likely to find requests from die-hard users,
    extremely technicals, with very deep requests, which are bound to be
    uninteresting to most casual users.

    True but,
    as any buzz-marketer should know,
    this is exactly this kind of customer group which "builds up" a
    brand,
    making it acknowledged as a "must have" product to less-involved but
    still paying users.
    This could be usefully considered as "communication" effort.

    But well, as just said, this should be handled by marketing, not R&D
    teams,
    nowadays, technical teams have little cloud & power to steer company
    decisions.
    Quite a pity if you ask me, and that's the way it is...


  6. Re: How to suggest features to the hp calculator team?

    On Aug 12, 11:07*pm, mnhollin...@yahoo.com wrote:
    > On Aug 12, 9:39*pm, username localhost
    > wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    > > On Aug 12, 5:50*pm, sc_use...@hotmail.com wrote:

    >
    > > > On Aug 12, 2:01*pm, "John H Meyers" wrote:

    >
    > > > > But can it play music videos?http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00004TVDN

    >
    > > > > The "user reviews" for the product above are interesting.

    >
    > > > > For example, a teacher writes:

    >
    > > > > * Hands down, the Casio wins, and it is cheaper as well.
    > > > > * The calculator is more user friendly.
    > > > > * The options are menu driven in a more intuitive way.
    > > > > * What took me a minute or two to locate and figure out out the TI,
    > > > > * took less than half the time on the Casio...
    > > > > * The color thing I suppose is nice,
    > > > > * but I use the CFX-9750, which is black and white and cheaper.

    >
    > > > TI has the USA school system eating out of its hands. Their marketing
    > > > division deserves some credit though with the TI-83/84 series hype.
    > > > The original vanilla TI-83 was introduced 12 years ago in 1996. Now,
    > > > it is still being sold, though re-named the TI-84+/silver. The TI-84's
    > > > promise keystroke-for-keystroke compatibility with the TI-83, which is
    > > > a fancy way of saying "We didn't bother to put any new features into
    > > > this 12-year-old calculator."

    >
    > > > I prefer my $9 Casio fx-260 solar pocket scientific to the brick-sized
    > > > TI-84's. I can do calculations faster on the Casio than the TI because
    > > > it uses a mixed ALG/RPN entry (though I prefer pure RPN

    >
    > > > Another interesting fact is that currently on Amazon, the TI-84 silver
    > > > sells for $135 while the 50g sells for only $118. A no-brainer if
    > > > there ever was one. [Even if you refuse to go HP, the TI-89 Titanium
    > > > costs only $140, making me strongly question why anyone would buy the
    > > > TI-84 silver]

    >
    > > The issue here is the arguably unlawful mandating of a specific
    > > calculator by teachers in public schools who have books with Ti-83
    > > instructions, and no other. Consider that many average idiots could
    > > not do anything complicated with a graphing calculator without step by
    > > step instructions. (These are the people who have trouble getting into
    > > a community college). If those idiots had an HP50g, there is almost no
    > > way the teacher would be able to provide the needed step by step
    > > instructions unless they were very familiar with the calculator.

    >
    > > This even hurts the sales of the TI-89. Well, that and the fact that
    > > some tests ban the TI-89 due to the CAS.- Hide quoted text -

    >
    > > - Show quoted text -

    >
    > We really have a great discussion going on here! When will HP
    > call its graphing calculators by what they really are-computers
    > or would that be a marketing blunder? I think the graphing
    > computer would tantalize the imagination of the high school
    > or college student shopping for a calculator. Better yet, a
    > hand-held graphing computer, because that would remove any
    > ambiguity that it might be a notebook computer. I think the
    > greatest strength of any calculator is the ability to customize
    > it to work the way I work.


    > The USER mode allows me to assign
    > keys but I have to memorize their assignments unless I can
    > put an overlay over the keyboard like the 48 series allowed you
    > to do.


    Many people assign to user keys based on the existing functions of the
    keys,
    making allowing one to avoid the need of completely memorizing the
    functions

    The newer Calcs do not have special support for overlays, but that
    does not mean overlays are not possible. See
    http://pssllc.com/index.php?main_pag...&products_id=7
    for an example of an overlay for the 50G+ despite the lack of hardware
    support.

    >The quality of the hardware is also important to me. The
    > black plastic bezel on my 49 G+ cracked after minimal use.
    > I don't expect my calculator to endure the rigors of outdoor or
    > industrial use but I do expect to get some use out of it before
    > it degrades. Finally, I would like to see an HP-supported SDK
    > that includes really good documentation for those of us who
    > are not professional programmers, computer scientists, or
    > electrical engineers.


    > I see a lot of people on this Usenet
    > group who are interested in going beyond the User Manual
    > and I think HP should support them because happy users
    > promote sales!


    The simple fact is that Corporate is apparently really not that
    interested in the Calculator division.
    They would rather focus their time on the other divisions. That is
    quite likely why the marketing
    and software support (manuals, sdks, etc) of HP Calculators has been
    lass than stellar. As long as the
    calculator division remains profitable and has reasonable small
    expenditure and does not pester corporate
    more than necessary, corporate is happy to leave it alone. If the
    calculator division is seen as requiring
    too much corporate attention it is more likely to be axed.

    Cyrille, does that sound about right?

    The one thing that would be really nice is if the calculator division
    were spun off as a seperate company, or perhaps transferred over to
    Agilent Technologies (The spin off company that had most of HP's
    oldest divisions). I would tend to guess that Agilent would have kept
    the calculator product line more healthy.

    I will say that these days the need for powerful pocket calculators in
    engineering is dying, mostly due to excellent computer software, and
    extremely portable PCs, but I doubt the market is completly gone.
    After all, calculator keyboards are often more convient for entering
    mathematical expressions than most computer keyboards.



  7. Re: How to suggest features to the hp calculator team?

    "Sylvain" wrote in message
    news:7IGdne2aa5wnxDzVnZ2dnUVZ_sDinZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
    > other question: why does the top of the line 50g doesn't have a color
    > display?


    I'd rather have higher resolution that color, personally. Color (or at least
    greyscale) is handy for differentiating multiple plots on a graph though,
    certainly.



  8. Re: How to suggest features to the hp calculator team?

    "Yann" wrote in message
    news:413acbab-f3a9-4756-9977-471c7902fcb8@25g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
    > In this newsgroup, we are likely to find requests from die-hard users,
    > extremely technicals, with very deep requests, which are bound to be
    > uninteresting to most casual users.


    This is the reason that, historically, HP had lots of different machines to
    choose from: Cheaper, less-powerful ones for "casual" users, and of course the
    HP-41 series, then -28 and -48 and -49 and -50 for "die-hard" users. In
    general the die-hard users are absolutely willing to pay more than the
    "casual" user for the extra features they desire, too.

    Even for such commodity products as wireless routers, some companies have
    figured this out: Asus sells their "Premium" line of routers (e.g., WL-500gP)
    that simply have twice as much RAM and flash ROM as their "regular" models.
    To the "casual" user, this is of no benefit whatsoever, but for the "power
    user" people go and start running, e.g., BitTorrent clients or web cams or
    Python scripts or whatever and fully benefit from the extra memory.

    > nowadays, technical teams have little cloud & power to steer company
    > decisions.


    In big companies, yes. But the calculator division of HP isn't more than
    something like a dozen? people anyway (hard to say since, as I recall, the
    calculator division only has a few full-time employees but uses lots of other
    in-house engineers part-time), so there's no reason it has to be run from a
    "big company" vantage point.

    It's really a shame that Hydrix wasn't able to obtain enough funding to get
    Qonos into production.

    ---Joel



  9. Re: How to suggest features to the hp calculator team?

    On Aug 18, 12:41*pm, "Joel Koltner"
    wrote:
    > > other question: *why does the top of the line 50g doesn't have a color
    > > display?

    >
    > I'd rather have higher resolution that color, personally. *Color (or atleast
    > greyscale) is handy for differentiating multiple plots on a graph though,
    > certainly.


    I agree that resolution is more important than color. A low-resolution
    color display would not help differentiate between different plots -
    the graphs would all coincide (or at least be close to each other) on
    a low resolution display.

    S.C.

  10. Re: How to suggest features to the hp calculator team?

    On Aug 18, 12:57*pm, "Joel Koltner"
    wrote:
    > This is the reason that, historically, HP had lots of different machines to
    > choose from: Cheaper, less-powerful ones for "casual" users, and of course the
    > HP-41 series, then -28 and -48 and -49 and -50 for "die-hard" users. *In
    > general the die-hard users are absolutely willing to pay more than the
    > "casual" user for the extra features they desire, too.


    HP hardly as a "cheaper" scientific calculator these days. The 35s in
    the $50-60 range can hardly be called affordable in the age of sub-$10
    pocket scientifics from other manufacturers such as Casio and TI. The
    problem is that "casual" users no longer go HP simply because HP's
    cost too much.

    In contrast, the 50g makes the HP48 series no longer only for "die-
    hard" users. At about $120, it is both cheaper and more capable than
    its competition (TI, for example). Whereas the 35s is several times
    more expensive than its competition, the 50g can compete favorably.

    HP needs to release a capable RPN pocket scientific in the sub-$20
    range to compete successfully in that market.

    S.C.

  11. Re: How to suggest features to the hp calculator team?

    SC Usenet wrote:
    > Whereas the 35s is several times more expensive
    > than its competition, the 50g can compete favorably.


    The 35s has no competition, at least not in the US. I believe it (along
    with its $20-cheaper sibling 33s) is the only programmable scientific
    calculator on the market.

    > HP needs to release a capable RPN pocket scientific in the
    > sub-$20 range to compete successfully in that market.


    I agree they should release a non-programmable RPN scientific to be
    competitive. The $40 HP 20b is price-competitive with the $33 TI BA II
    PLUS. TI has several scientific calculators with quality comparable to that
    of the TI BA II PLUS, such as the $15 TI-30X IIB and IIS. Can HP produce a
    $20 RPN scientific version of the 20b? That's what it would take to be
    competitive -- not another RPN-lacking 10s.

    Though maybe it would do little good. As has been pointed out already, the
    50g is price-competitive with the vastly inferior TI-84 (or the powerful but
    little-known, compared to the 83/84, TI-89), but the teachers have been
    bribed to only recommend the 83/84, so that's what the students buy.

    Regards,

    Eric Rechlin



  12. Re: How to suggest features to the hp calculator team?

    On Tue, 12 Aug 2008 14:50:55 -0700 (PDT), sc_usenet@hotmail.com wrote:

    >
    >Another interesting fact is that currently on Amazon, the TI-84 silver
    >sells for $135 while the 50g sells for only $118. A no-brainer if
    >there ever was one. [Even if you refuse to go HP, the TI-89 Titanium
    >costs only $140, making me strongly question why anyone would buy the
    >TI-84 silver]
    >


    Because it is better than HP50. For high school student

    A.L.

  13. Re: How to suggest features to the hp calculator team?

    On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 19:29:49 -0500, "Eric Rechlin"
    wrote:

    >SC Usenet wrote:
    >> Whereas the 35s is several times more expensive
    >> than its competition, the 50g can compete favorably.

    >
    >The 35s has no competition, at least not in the US. I believe it (along
    >with its $20-cheaper sibling 33s) is the only programmable scientific
    >calculator on the market.
    >
    >> HP needs to release a capable RPN pocket scientific in the
    >> sub-$20 range to compete successfully in that market.

    >
    >I agree they should release a non-programmable RPN scientific to be
    >competitive. The $40 HP 20b is price-competitive with the $33 TI BA II
    >PLUS. TI has several scientific calculators with quality comparable to that
    >of the TI BA II PLUS, such as the $15 TI-30X IIB and IIS. Can HP produce a
    >$20 RPN scientific version of the 20b? That's what it would take to be
    >competitive -- not another RPN-lacking 10s.


    What country are you from? Maybe in Europe high school students are
    smart enough to master RPN. Maybe teachers in Europe are smart enough
    to master RPN. But Europe is not the Whole World.

    A.L.

  14. Re: How to suggest features to the hp calculator team?

    On Aug 18, 9:31*pm, A.L. wrote:
    > On Tue, 12 Aug 2008 14:50:55 -0700 (PDT), sc_use...@hotmail.com wrote:
    >
    > >Another interesting fact is that currently on Amazon, the TI-84 silver
    > >sells for $135 while the 50g sells for only $118. A no-brainer if
    > >there ever was one. [Even if you refuse to go HP, the TI-89 Titanium
    > >costs only $140, making me strongly question why anyone would buy the
    > >TI-84 silver]

    >
    > Because it is better than HP50. For high *school student
    >
    > A.L.


    For the average USA high school student (who struggles with math), the
    TI-84 is better than the HP 50g because teachers are more familiar
    with the TI and can show their students exactly what to do. Not sure I
    agree with the teaching method (do the kids learn math or just how to
    push buttons?) but it's the truth.

    The same high school student can save himself over $100 by using a
    simple scientific calculator (the TI-84's don't do anything that the
    scientifics can't do, besides graph) and actually learning enough
    mathematics to visualize the simple graphs encountered during class.

    HP 50g is better than the TI for non-students.

    S.C.

  15. Re: How to suggest features to the hp calculator team?

    "Eric Rechlin" wrote in message
    news:6guifuFhk3o9U1@mid.individual.net...
    > The 35s has no competition, at least not in the US. I believe it (along
    > with its $20-cheaper sibling 33s) is the only programmable scientific
    > calculator on the market.


    You need to throw "non-graphing" in there, but otherwise, yes, this is
    essentially true... and unfortunate.






  16. Re: How to suggest features to the hp calculator team?

    On Aug 19, 3:29*am, "Eric Rechlin" wrote:
    > Though maybe it would do little good. As has been pointed out already, the
    > 50g is price-competitive with the vastly inferior TI-84 (or the powerful but
    > little-known, compared to the 83/84, TI-89), but the teachers have been
    > bribed to only recommend the 83/84, so that's what the students buy.


    I must have missed that memo. Where do I sign up to receive my
    bribe? :-)

    I'm a long-time RPN user and would love for some of my high school
    students to have RPN calculators. However, the inertia of the market
    place is difficult to overcome. While I am primarily interested in a
    tool to teach math/physics concepts, students' priorities are often
    "What do my friends have?" and "What color is it?" (Pink, orange,
    blue and baby blue seem to be popular this year.)

    As much as I dislike the TI-83/84, I have to give a nod to their
    marketing. They know their target market and have covered all the
    bases: training for teachers, integration with textbooks, cool-factor
    for students. They've created a need for their product (textbooks),
    developed a group of people who promote their product (teachers), and
    have convinced a group of fickle consumers that they need their
    inferior product.

    There was a time in the early 90's when HP-28's and 48's were the cool
    calculators among my top students. I'm convinced that the 48gII is an
    ideal high school calculator, but you can't expect students to buy
    them them when the vast majority of teachers have never even heard of
    them.

    -wes

  17. Re: How to suggest features to the hp calculator team?

    "Wes" wrote in message
    news:ee1b7a79-91c6-4457-a6b5-0123e2ddc896@y38g2000hsy.googlegroups.com...
    "I'm convinced that the 48gII is an
    ideal high school calculator, but you can't expect students to buy
    them them when the vast majority of teachers have never even heard of
    them."

    For all the lip service that society pays to making students critical,
    independent thinkers, if anything it seems as if actually doing a little
    thinking for yourself and choosing what's best for you rather than "what
    everyone else has" is less common today than it was decades back.

    And look at how popular convenant restrictions are in new housing
    developments -- you can be as creative as you want in the design of your home,
    so long as you first get all the plantings, colors, vehicle storage locations,
    and floorplan are first all approved by others. God help us all if a neighbor
    wanted to paint his house purple with pink polka dots!

    Or buy his kid an HP 48gII.




  18. Re: How to suggest features to the hp calculator team?

    Wes wrote:
    > As much as I dislike the TI-83/84, I have to give a nod to their
    > marketing. They know their target market and have covered all the
    > bases: training for teachers, integration with textbooks, cool-factor
    > for students. They've created a need for their product (textbooks),
    > developed a group of people who promote their product (teachers), and
    > have convinced a group of fickle consumers that they need their
    > inferior product.


    That's exactly what I meant by "bribe". If you give the teachers free
    lesson plans, they are much more likely to use your product than if they had
    to spend many hours on their own (and teachers, particularly younger ones
    who would be more interested in technology, have a lot less free time than
    some think!) to develop their own lesson plans.

    If HP is serious about the education market, they will have to do exactly
    what TI does -- create a comprehensive set of lesson plans, train the
    teachers, and convince the textbook manufacturers to mention their products.
    The first two will have to happen before the third, and it will take years
    to truly show results. They don't even need to develop a new calculator,
    because the 39gs is already an excellent calculator for students in the
    14-17 age group who are (typically, and understandably) not interested in
    taking the few minutes/hours to learn RPN/RPL.

    > (Pink, orange, blue and baby blue seem to be popular this year.)


    Maybe HP could bring back the old HP 49G, if metallic baby blue is back in
    style! Hopefully rubber keys and rainbow screen covers (from the units made
    in Indonesia) are also fashionable...

    Regards,

    Eric Rechlin



  19. Re: How to suggest features to the hp calculator team?

    On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 20:38:14 -0500, A.L. wrote:

    > What country are you from?
    > Maybe in Europe high school students
    > are smart enough to master RPN.


    > Maybe teachers in Europe are smart enough to master RPN.


    In my days in a USA elementary school,
    all calculations were performed
    by first writing down the numbers,
    then commencing to perform the arithmetic upon them.

    That's exactly what "RPN" is, so back in those days,
    everyone who graduated my USA elementary school
    (and necessarily even those who taught them)
    were already "masters of RPN."

    What do they do now in school -- start performing
    the arithmetic before they write down the numbers
    upon which it is to be performed?

    Now _that_ must really take more smarts than we ever had

    http://groups.google.com/group/comp....15564652d52afd

    -[ ]-

  20. Re: How to suggest features to the hp calculator team?

    On Aug 19, 8:10*pm, "John H Meyers" wrote:
    > In my days in a USA elementary school,
    > all calculations were performed
    > by first writing down the numbers,
    > then commencing to perform the arithmetic upon them.
    >
    > That's exactly what "RPN" is, so back in those days,
    > everyone who graduated my USA elementary school
    > (and necessarily even those who taught them)
    > were already "masters of RPN."
    >


    How do you multiply two 3-digit integers by hand? You write one down,
    then write down the second, then write down the operation to be
    performed (the x for multiplication). The RPN calculator is an
    extension to the brain -- you enter in the two numbers and then press
    [x] to multiply them.

    I can hardly imagine anyone who can just look at something like
    246x894=? and multiply those two numbers on the spot just like that
    (That's the TI way).

    RPN just seems more natural, unless you never knew how to do the math
    by hand in the first place.

    S.C.

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