Emu48 in flash - Hewlett Packard

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  1. Emu48 in flash

    Is it technically possible to build a flash version of Emu48 in
    Actionscript 3.0 ?

    julien

  2. Re: Emu48 in flash

    On Jul 18, 6:03*am, Julien MEYER wrote:
    > Is it technically possible to build a flash version of Emu48 *in
    > Actionscript 3.0 ?
    >
    > julien


    ECMA script is a Turing-complete language so a Flash or JavaScript
    implementation of any program is theoretically possible. That said,
    Flash has significant overhead, and so any such implementation is
    likely to be unbearably slow, and have unreasonable memory
    requirements. Further, there is of course no reliable way to translate
    existing program to ActionScript, so the program would need to be
    rewritten from scratch in ActionScript.

    So while it is technically possible, the results would be almost
    completely unusable, and it would take way to much effort to seriously
    consider.

  3. Re: Emu48 in flash

    username localhost a écrit :
    > On Jul 18, 6:03 am, Julien MEYER wrote:
    >> Is it technically possible to build a flash version of Emu48 in
    >> Actionscript 3.0 ?
    >>
    >> julien

    >
    > ECMA script is a Turing-complete language so a Flash or JavaScript
    > implementation of any program is theoretically possible. That said,
    > Flash has significant overhead, and so any such implementation is
    > likely to be unbearably slow, and have unreasonable memory
    > requirements. Further, there is of course no reliable way to translate
    > existing program to ActionScript, so the program would need to be
    > rewritten from scratch in ActionScript.
    >
    > So while it is technically possible, the results would be almost
    > completely unusable, and it would take way to much effort to seriously
    > consider.


    Not sure it will be too slow, have a look at this Commodore64 emu :
    http://osflash.org/fc64/

    Hope sebc is reading me, a flash emu48 might be so cool to play with

    julien

  4. Re: Emu48 in flash

    On Jul 18, 12:39*pm, Julien Meyer wrote:
    > username localhost a écrit :
    >
    > >> julien

    > Not sure it will be too slow, have a look at this Commodore64 emu :http://osflash.org/fc64/
    >
    > Hope sebc is reading me, a flash emu48 might be so cool to play with
    >
    > julien


    Hmm... interesting. It seems there is less overhead than I might
    think. I also keep forgetting that the processor on the hp-48 is only
    2 MHz, and the memory is also quite limited.

    A suppose such an emulator might not be unusable, but it would still
    most likely take a significant amount of work.

  5. Re: Emu48 in flash

    username localhost a écrit :
    > On Jul 18, 12:39 pm, Julien Meyer wrote:
    >> username localhost a écrit :
    >>
    >>>> julien

    >> Not sure it will be too slow, have a look at this Commodore64 emu :http://osflash.org/fc64/
    >>
    >> Hope sebc is reading me, a flash emu48 might be so cool to play with
    >>
    >> julien

    >
    > Hmm... interesting. It seems there is less overhead than I might
    > think. I also keep forgetting that the processor on the hp-48 is only
    > 2 MHz, and the memory is also quite limited.
    >
    > A suppose such an emulator might not be unusable, but it would still
    > most likely take a significant amount of work.



    Definitly yes.

    Claus, one of the two authors of this great C64 flash emu, answer my
    mail back and he is asking me for some HP48 specs. Thank you very much
    Claus!

    Claus said :

    >I don't know the exact specs of that calculator, so i can't really
    >answer that question. Emulating a 2 MHz processor in Flash shouldn't
    >be a problem, but i could imagine that emulating the FPU could be
    >challenging.
    >
    >Do you have detailed specs for the HP48, and the firmware?
    >
    >Cheers,
    >Claus.


    So, what is the best spec files available out there? I can't imagine
    what might happen if we could give him something interesting to read!

    --
    Cheers,
    julien

    http://jadegame.com/hp/smhpsrc/ - SuperMarioHP in asm with sources.

  6. Re: Emu48 in flash

    username localhost a écrit :
    > On Jul 18, 12:39 pm, Julien Meyer wrote:
    >> username localhost a écrit :
    >>
    >>>> julien

    >> Not sure it will be too slow, have a look at this Commodore64 emu :http://osflash.org/fc64/
    >>
    >> Hope sebc is reading me, a flash emu48 might be so cool to play with
    >>
    >> julien

    >
    > Hmm... interesting. It seems there is less overhead than I might
    > think. I also keep forgetting that the processor on the hp-48 is only
    > 2 MHz, and the memory is also quite limited.
    >
    > A suppose such an emulator might not be unusable, but it would still
    > most likely take a significant amount of work.



    Definitly yes.

    Claus, one of the two authors of this great C64 flash emu, answer my
    mail back and he is asking me for some HP48 specs. Thank you very much
    Claus!

    Claus said :

    >I don't know the exact specs of that calculator, so i can't really
    >answer that question. Emulating a 2 MHz processor in Flash shouldn't
    >be a problem, but i could imagine that emulating the FPU could be
    >challenging.
    >
    >Do you have detailed specs for the HP48, and the firmware?
    >
    >Cheers,
    >Claus.


    So, what is the best spec files available out there? I can't imagine
    what might happen if we could give him something interesting to read!

    --
    Cheers,
    julien

    http://jadegame.com/hp/smhpsrc/ - SuperMarioHP in asm with sources.

  7. Re: Emu48 in flash

    username localhost a écrit :
    > On Jul 18, 12:39 pm, Julien Meyer wrote:
    >> username localhost a écrit :
    >>
    >>>> julien

    >> Not sure it will be too slow, have a look at this Commodore64 emu :http://osflash.org/fc64/
    >>
    >> Hope sebc is reading me, a flash emu48 might be so cool to play with
    >>
    >> julien

    >
    > Hmm... interesting. It seems there is less overhead than I might
    > think. I also keep forgetting that the processor on the hp-48 is only
    > 2 MHz, and the memory is also quite limited.
    >
    > A suppose such an emulator might not be unusable, but it would still
    > most likely take a significant amount of work.



    Definitly yes.

    Claus, one of the two authors of this great C64 flash emu, answer my
    mail back and he is asking me for some HP48 specs. Thank you very much
    Claus!

    Claus said :

    >I don't know the exact specs of that calculator, so i can't really
    >answer that question. Emulating a 2 MHz processor in Flash shouldn't
    >be a problem, but i could imagine that emulating the FPU could be
    >challenging.
    >
    >Do you have detailed specs for the HP48, and the firmware?
    >
    >Cheers,
    >Claus.


    So, what is the best spec files available out there? I can't imagine
    what might happen if we could give him something interesting to read!

    --
    Cheers,
    julien

    http://jadegame.com/hp/smhpsrc/ - SuperMarioHP in asm with sources.

  8. Re: Emu48 in flash

    Oops sorry for sending tree times the same thread, my vpn has got some
    troubles

    Julien MEYER a écrit :
    > username localhost a écrit :
    >> On Jul 18, 12:39 pm, Julien Meyer wrote:
    >>> username localhost a écrit :
    >>>
    >>>>> julien
    >>> Not sure it will be too slow, have a look at this Commodore64 emu
    >>> :http://osflash.org/fc64/
    >>>
    >>> Hope sebc is reading me, a flash emu48 might be so cool to play with
    >>>
    >>> julien

    >>
    >> Hmm... interesting. It seems there is less overhead than I might
    >> think. I also keep forgetting that the processor on the hp-48 is only
    >> 2 MHz, and the memory is also quite limited.
    >>
    >> A suppose such an emulator might not be unusable, but it would still
    >> most likely take a significant amount of work.

    >
    >
    > Definitly yes.
    >
    > Claus, one of the two authors of this great C64 flash emu, answer my
    > mail back and he is asking me for some HP48 specs. Thank you very much
    > Claus!
    >
    > Claus said :
    >
    > >I don't know the exact specs of that calculator, so i can't really
    > >answer that question. Emulating a 2 MHz processor in Flash shouldn't
    > >be a problem, but i could imagine that emulating the FPU could be
    > >challenging.
    > >
    > >Do you have detailed specs for the HP48, and the firmware?
    > >
    > >Cheers,
    > >Claus.

    >
    > So, what is the best spec files available out there? I can't imagine
    > what might happen if we could give him something interesting to read!
    >
    > --
    > Cheers,
    > julien
    >
    > http://jadegame.com/hp/smhpsrc/ - SuperMarioHP in asm with sources.


  9. Re: Emu48 in flash

    "username localhost" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
    news:cc53fe18-419f-4a7a-aefc-872439f04bb5@e53g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
    On Jul 18, 12:39 pm, Julien Meyer wrote:
    > username localhost a écrit :
    >
    > >> julien

    > Not sure it will be too slow, have a look at this Commodore64 emu
    > :http://osflash.org/fc64/
    >
    > Hope sebc is reading me, a flash emu48 might be so cool to play with
    >
    > julien


    >Hmm... interesting. It seems there is less overhead than I might
    >think. I also keep forgetting that the processor on the hp-48 is only
    >2 MHz, and the memory is also quite limited.
    >

    Ahem, the 48G+ or GX has a CPU clock of nearly 4MHz,
    whereas the C64 only has around 1MHz (PAL: 0.98 NTSC: 1.02)
    The ROM of the 48G+/GX is 512KiB, and RAM can be up
    to somewhat more than 4MB, using bank switching.

    Not really limited in relation to the C64 with its 20KiB ROM and 64KiB
    RAM;-)


    >A suppose such an emulator might not be unusable, but it would still
    >most likely take a significant amount of work.
    >

    I think a re-implementation of Emu48 (or similar) in actionscript (shudder)
    might only be of academic interest.

    It's like re-inventing the wheel, but with much more unnecessary overhead
    than the existing solutions, like Emu48 for Win32 or x48 for nux,
    where at least Emu48 for Win32 also is somewhat performant.



  10. Re: Emu48 in flash

    On Jul 18, 2:38*pm, Julien MEYER wrote:
    > username localhost a écrit :


    > So, what is the best spec files available out there? I can't imagine
    > what might happen if we could give him something interesting to read!


    Saturn Intro: http://www.hpmuseum.org/saturn.htm

    EMU48 Source: http://hp.giesselink.com/Emu48/E48SP47.ZIP

    IMHO I think Flash would be a waste of time. If you want to port
    EMU48 to browsers, then Java may be a better platform. It runs just
    about everywhere, whereas Flash does not. A Java version could run
    standalone or in a browser.

  11. Re: Emu48 in flash

    On Jul 18, 6:29*pm, "dataj...@gmail.com" wrote:
    > Saturn Intro: *http://www.hpmuseum.org/saturn.htm
    >
    > EMU48 Source: *http://hp.giesselink.com/Emu48/E48SP47.ZIP
    >
    > IMHO I think Flash would be a waste of time. *If you want to port
    > EMU48 to browsers, then Java may be a better platform. *It runs just
    > about everywhere, whereas Flash does not. *A Java version could run
    > standalone or in a browser.


    You may want to take a look at the Adobe AIR runtime:
    http://www.adobe.com/products/air/

    Your statement that Java "runs just about everywhere, whereas Flash
    does not" is of course debatable.

    Cheers,
    Claus (co-author of FC64).

  12. Re: Emu48 in flash

    Raymond Del Tondo a écrit :
    > "username localhost" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
    > news:cc53fe18-419f-4a7a-aefc-872439f04bb5@e53g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
    > On Jul 18, 12:39 pm, Julien Meyer wrote:
    >> username localhost a écrit :
    >>
    >>>> julien

    >> Not sure it will be too slow, have a look at this Commodore64 emu
    >> :http://osflash.org/fc64/
    >>
    >> Hope sebc is reading me, a flash emu48 might be so cool to play with
    >>
    >> julien

    >
    >> Hmm... interesting. It seems there is less overhead than I might
    >> think. I also keep forgetting that the processor on the hp-48 is only
    >> 2 MHz, and the memory is also quite limited.
    >>

    > Ahem, the 48G+ or GX has a CPU clock of nearly 4MHz,
    > whereas the C64 only has around 1MHz (PAL: 0.98 NTSC: 1.02)
    > The ROM of the 48G+/GX is 512KiB, and RAM can be up
    > to somewhat more than 4MB, using bank switching.
    >
    > Not really limited in relation to the C64 with its 20KiB ROM and 64KiB
    > RAM;-)
    >
    >
    >> A suppose such an emulator might not be unusable, but it would still
    >> most likely take a significant amount of work.
    >>

    > I think a re-implementation of Emu48 (or similar) in actionscript (shudder)
    > might only be of academic interest.
    >
    > It's like re-inventing the wheel, but with much more unnecessary overhead
    > than the existing solutions, like Emu48 for Win32 or x48 for nux,
    > where at least Emu48 for Win32 also is somewhat performant.
    >
    >


    Well,

    Correct me if i'm wrong but I think this project is a great opportunity
    to push the entire HP48 apps base into the WEB, in a fresh flash based
    cool way, then to touch millions users rather than just a few geeks ;-)

    I think the interest is capital and might be a real HP opportunity to
    sell more calculators..

    Cheers,
    julien









  13. Re: Emu48 in flash

    datajerk@gmail.com a écrit :
    > On Jul 18, 2:38 pm, Julien MEYER wrote:
    >> username localhost a écrit :

    >
    >> So, what is the best spec files available out there? I can't imagine
    >> what might happen if we could give him something interesting to read!

    >
    > Saturn Intro: http://www.hpmuseum.org/saturn.htm
    >
    > EMU48 Source: http://hp.giesselink.com/Emu48/E48SP47.ZIP
    >
    > IMHO I think Flash would be a waste of time. If you want to port
    > EMU48 to browsers, then Java may be a better platform. It runs just
    > about everywhere, whereas Flash does not. A Java version could run
    > standalone or in a browser.


    Adobe AIR could also run stand alone.... Flash and java are both ECMA
    languages, but I'd prefer flash not because it owns 99,9999 % of the
    market client side, while Java is more powerful server side, because
    Flash9 has the best RIA framework to build rich internet applications

    julien

  14. Re: Emu48 in flash

    datajerk@gmail.com a écrit :
    > On Jul 18, 2:38 pm, Julien MEYER wrote:
    >> username localhost a écrit :

    >
    >> So, what is the best spec files available out there? I can't imagine
    >> what might happen if we could give him something interesting to read!

    >
    > Saturn Intro: http://www.hpmuseum.org/saturn.htm
    >
    > EMU48 Source: http://hp.giesselink.com/Emu48/E48SP47.ZIP
    >
    > IMHO I think Flash would be a waste of time. If you want to port
    > EMU48 to browsers, then Java may be a better platform. It runs just
    > about everywhere, whereas Flash does not. A Java version could run
    > standalone or in a browser.


    Thanks,

    I just past the links to him. Hope this helps!

    Cheers,
    julien

  15. Re: Emu48 in flash

    Claus Wahlers a écrit :
    > On Jul 18, 6:29 pm, "dataj...@gmail.com" wrote:
    >> Saturn Intro: http://www.hpmuseum.org/saturn.htm
    >>
    >> EMU48 Source: http://hp.giesselink.com/Emu48/E48SP47.ZIP
    >>
    >> IMHO I think Flash would be a waste of time. If you want to port
    >> EMU48 to browsers, then Java may be a better platform. It runs just
    >> about everywhere, whereas Flash does not. A Java version could run
    >> standalone or in a browser.

    >
    > You may want to take a look at the Adobe AIR runtime:
    > http://www.adobe.com/products/air/
    >
    > Your statement that Java "runs just about everywhere, whereas Flash
    > does not" is of course debatable.
    >
    > Cheers,
    > Claus (co-author of FC64).


    Welcome Claus, thank you for joining us here !

    julien

  16. Re: Emu48 in flash

    On Jul 18, 3:47*pm, Claus Wahlers wrote:
    > On Jul 18, 6:29*pm, "dataj...@gmail.com" wrote:


    > Your statement that Java "runs just about everywhere, whereas Flash
    > does not" is of course debatable.


    Java is more ubiquitous. It runs on all my platforms, whereas Flash
    does not. E.g. my Zaurus PDA, my (soon to be replaced with iPhone 3G)
    Windows 5.0 Smart phone. Granted there are options becoming
    available, but they tend to lag behind browser plugin support. E.g.
    not every Flash supported device may support Flash 9.

    I am not stating that one is technically better than the other, just
    that Java is more widespread, more mature and may be a better global
    platform for a calculator emulator.

  17. Re: Emu48 in flash

    On Jul 18, 4:03*pm, Julien Meyer wrote:
    > dataj...@gmail.com a écrit :
    > Adobe AIR could also run stand alone.... Flash and java are both ECMA
    > languages, but I'd prefer flash not because it owns 99,9999 % of the
    > market client side, while Java is more powerful server side, because
    > Flash9 has the best RIA framework to build rich internet applications


    No question Flash won over Java for browser-based client side
    applications. As for 99.9999% I will not argue that. Almost every
    web page I visit has Flash on it. It has become so cumbersome and
    such a drag on system performance that I installed the Firefox Flash
    blocker. :-)

    If you port EMU48 to Flash (or Java), you will have takers, no doubt,
    good luck.

  18. Re: Emu48 in flash

    On Jul 18, 5:07*pm, "Raymond Del Tondo" wrote:
    > "username localhost" schrieb im Newsbeitragnews:cc53fe18-419f-4a7a-aefc-872439f04bb5@e53g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
    > On Jul 18, 12:39 pm, Julien Meyer wrote:
    >
    > > username localhost a écrit :

    >
    > > >> julien

    > > Not sure it will be too slow, have a look at this Commodore64 emu
    > > :http://osflash.org/fc64/

    >
    > > Hope sebc is reading me, a flash emu48 might be so cool to play with

    >
    > > julien
    > >Hmm... interesting. It seems there is less overhead than I might
    > >think. I also keep forgetting that the processor on the hp-48 is only
    > >2 MHz, and the memory is also quite limited.

    >
    > Ahem, the 48G+ or GX has a CPU clock of nearly 4MHz,
    > whereas the C64 only has around 1MHz (PAL: 0.98 NTSC: 1.02)
    > The ROM of the 48G+/GX is 512KiB, and RAM can be up
    > to somewhat more than 4MB, using bank switching.
    >
    > Not really limited in relation to the C64 with its 20KiB ROM and 64KiB
    > RAM;-)
    >
    > >A suppose such an emulator might not be unusable, but it would still
    > >most likely take a significant amount of work.

    >
    > I think a re-implementation of Emu48 (or similar) in actionscript (shudder)
    > might only be of academic interest.
    >
    > It's like re-inventing the wheel, but with much more unnecessary overhead
    > than the existing solutions, like Emu48 for Win32 or x48 for nux,
    > where at least Emu48 for Win32 also is somewhat performant.


    Keep in mind that the ActionScript 3.0 language is simply an extended
    version of the ECMAscript language, much like Mozilla Foundation's
    JavaScript. (I'm not sure if it is MoCo or MoFo that is maintaining
    the Javascript language, but since MoFo owns MoCo it really does not
    matter).

    Specifically, Javascript 2 will support ActionScript 3.0's class
    notation, type specification notation, access package system, void
    keyword, default function parameters, and likely some other features.
    Javascript 2.0 might not support AS 3.0's event model, however, that
    is not a terribly large problem. as will be explained later.

    Thus to port an AS 3.0 app to Javascript 2.0 would require replacing
    any interface code. This is not surprising. A browsers DOM is quite
    different from the interface model of Flash. More specifically, any
    use of objects from the runtime.flash package will likely need to be
    replaced with an equivalent that uses browser features. And that is
    the main reason why it does not matter if JavaScript 2.0 supports the
    AS 3.0 event model. The primary use of AS 3.0's event model are the
    flash specific packages. since those could not be used in a web page,
    they don't matter. If the core code uses the model internally, I
    believe that can be supported simply by extending the Javascript
    Object prototype.

    Thus a practical matter, Porting from AS 3.0 to Javascript 2.0 will
    mean writing a new user-interface for the core. A much smaller task
    than writing and testing the core itself.

    A JS 2.0 hp-48 emulator is certainly an very interesting concept.

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