There is also the approach of "break it and see what fails" -- in this case, I'm fairly sure this is what Vladimir suggests (when promoting Streamx) -- basically, go and change EVERY actual PASSWORD on your system, then watch for what jobs "fail", or (and this is where the sales pitch comes in) use Streamx and it will go ahead and replace "bad" passwords in the file with the "good" password from the system at the time the job is submitted (it doesn't actually change the file-on-disk, but rather what goes to the STREAMS device)

The "good part" about this is that if an intruder gets ahold of a "live" jobstream, the passwords IN THAT FILE will not match the system and the intruder cannot use them to attack your system. OTOH, if an intruder gets to a relatively insecure account (i.e., one where he can put in an arbitrary file) AND can convince someone with AM or SM capability to submit the job via STREAMX, then the attacker doesn't even need to know or attempt to break the password as streamx will have gone ahead and looked up the current password to submit in the file [this is more of a social engineering problem, though, since the SM should be aware of what he or she is submitting...]

Likewise to the above, if an intruder gets ahold of an OUTDATED jobstream (presumably a bit easier -- perhaps by dumpster diving when some long-time employee retires and their office gets "tidied up"...) again, the passwords in the file (or printout) won't do the attacker any good. In the rare (?) cases this is a "once a year job", streamx will still insert the correct password.

NOTE: while this does sound like a "big pitch" for streamx, I no longer work for VEsoft [and when I did, it was in tech support, not sales, so I wouldn't get a penny from a sale anyway, but that's beside the point] There are OTHER third-party job pre-processor/submission tools out there, and even the OS itself (in later years) has the provision for doing much the same (inserting the "actual" password at submission time), so these techniques may apply as well.

----- Original Message ----
From: "Dave Powell, MMfab"
To: HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU
Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 11:57:22 AM
Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] Finding stream job signons

We have used both Jim's tricks, except that in our case it is command files,
not jobs, that use "echo" to build jobs. We don't have UDCs doing it, but
that should be possible too.

Have you considered turning it around and tracking the ids of jobs that
actually log on ? There's a big hole with jobs / logons that aren't used
often, unless you track for a LONG time, but otherwise it should be easy.

I suspect there is someing in the system logs, but if there isn't, you can
roll your own. In a system logon UDC, insert lines like:
if not hpinteractive
echo !hpjobname, !hpuser, !hpaccount >> somefile
endif
If it matters, you could also track "hpstreamedby", date & time, etc.

Then have something read that file and count whatever you need.
At our site, "not hpinteractive" = "is a job". I think a creative person
could find ways for that not to be true, but I suspect most sites don't play
those tricks.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Hawkins, Jim (ESS TCEandQ)"
To:
Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 11:11
Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] Finding stream job signons


Jim,

Not exactly sure what end point you're trying to reach, a few other things to
consider:

1) Don't forget that !JOB is NOT the only way to start a job.

#JOB is valid with "STREAM jobf,#"

(:HELP STREAM ALL)

2) Also around here we have lots of jobs which build other jobs

!echo #JOB xxx.xxxx > *x

so searching just the first record of a file might not catch "all" jobs. . ..

Jim H.

-----Original Message-----
From: HP-3000 Systems Discussion [mailto:HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU] On Behalf Of
Bahrs, Art
Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 9:50 AM
To: HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU
Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] Finding stream job signons

Hi Jim & Craig
Hey... If you have grep available - maybe a simple grep command for
the !job pattern... Piping the grep output into another file which can
then be used to do all sorts of wonderful technogeekie things

Art "*nix isn't so bad afterall! Hehe" Bahrs

Thanks,
Art
Art Bahrs, CISSP
Security Engineer
Providence Health & Services
Arthur.Bahrs@Providence.org
Phone: 503-216-2722


-----Original Message-----
From: HP-3000 Systems Discussion [mailto:HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU] On
Behalf Of Craig Lalley
Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 9:28 AM
To: HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU
Subject: Re: Finding stream job signons

Jim,

Watch out for message files. type MSG?

-Craig



--- On Mon, 7/14/08, English, Jim wrote:

> From: English, Jim
> Subject: Finding stream job signons
> To: HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU
> Date: Monday, July 14, 2008, 11:10 AM
> Does anyone know of a command, or commands, I could use to find all
> stream jobs on our HP3000 system? I want to search the jobs to find
> all signons that are used in stream jobs.
>
> I'm using the MPEX print command to search the system for any file
> that has "!JOB" in the first record, but it's taking a very long time
> (more than 24 hours). This is the command I'm using:
>
> %PURGE JLERPT.JIM
> %BUILD JLERPT.JIM;REC=-256,,F,ASCII;DEV=DISC;DISC=100000
> %FILE JLERPT=JLERPT.JIM,OLD;ACC=APPEND %PRINT
> @.@.ACCOUNT1+@.@.ACCOUNT2+@.YSTREAMS.ACCOUNT3+@.@. ACCOUNT4+&
> @.JOB.ACCOUNT5+@.JOB.ACCOUNT6(INTCODE=0 AND ISASCII AND LOCKWORD="");&


> SEARCH="!JOB" AND RECNUM=1;OUT=*JLERPT %EXIT
>
> I was using PRINT @.@.@, but it kept getting hung up on device files
> in the SYS account and files with lockwords in them, so I changed it
> to search accounts and groups where I know there are stream jobs.
> However, I'd like to really search the entire system to find any jobs
> outside of my current search criteria.
>
> The JLERPT file isn't filling up, because right now, there are 1814
> records in it, and the limit is 100000 records.
>
> We have a lot of files in our HFS directories, and I think that is
> what's contributing to the problem. Account names have been changed to


> protect the innocent.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jim.
>
> ______________________________________
> James English
> Financial Systems Analyst
> TB Wood's Incorporated
> 440 N. Fifth Avenue
> Chambersburg, PA 17201
> Phone: (717) 264-7161 x2119
> Fax: (717) 264-0890
> Email: jenglish@tbwoods.com
> Web: http://www.tbwoods.com
> ______________________________________
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