Re: Cannot Purge PRIV mode File Problem - Hewlett Packard

This is a discussion on Re: Cannot Purge PRIV mode File Problem - Hewlett Packard ; On Sun, 13 Jul 2008 22:49:37 -0500 Denys Beauchemin writes: > Shawn, great answer. > > Another one is something about someone blaming his tools for his errors. After Shawn Gordon on Sunday, July 13, 2008 4:13 PM wrote: >> ...

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Thread: Re: Cannot Purge PRIV mode File Problem

  1. Re: Cannot Purge PRIV mode File Problem

    On Sun, 13 Jul 2008 22:49:37 -0500 Denys Beauchemin writes:

    > Shawn, great answer.
    >
    > Another one is something about someone blaming his tools for his errors.


    After Shawn Gordon on Sunday, July 13, 2008 4:13 PM wrote:

    >> that's like blaming the steak for not cooking itself to the right
    >> temperature.


    I think you are both missing the point here, which is the inconsistency of the tools HP provided via MPE for handling lockwords. If the facility exists (as it plainly does) to allow lower-case lockwords, then the system should handle lower-case lockwords in *all* commands, intrinsics, etc. If the intent of the HP MPE programmers was to not allow lower-case lockwords (which appears to be the case) then *all* commands, intrinsics, etc. should have consistently either rejected invalid lockwords or upshifted them or whatever was needed to make it equisitely obvious to the user what was happening.

    I see this as another reason for us to "recreate" MPE, perhaps as a service under Linux (hint, hint)....


    Jim Phillips




    * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *


  2. Re: Cannot Purge PRIV mode File Problem

    It's not my purpose to defend the "HP MPE programmers," but I would think
    that when one is using AIF procedures which require privileged mode, one
    should be paying attention. When one is using a very powerful tool, one
    should be extra cautious.

    So, tell me again why you see this misuse of a tool as another reason for
    you to "recreate" MPE, as a service under Linux. MPE, while being a
    somewhat small operating system in comparison to current ones, is still
    quite large and if this infinitesimal aspect is your motivating factor, I
    foresee a rather large shock in your future.

    Denys

    -----Original Message-----
    From: HP-3000 Systems Discussion [mailto:HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU] On Behalf
    Of Jim Phillips
    Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 6:05 AM
    To: HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU
    Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] Cannot Purge PRIV mode File Problem

    On Sun, 13 Jul 2008 22:49:37 -0500 Denys Beauchemin writes:

    > Shawn, great answer.
    >
    > Another one is something about someone blaming his tools for his errors.


    After Shawn Gordon on Sunday, July 13, 2008 4:13 PM wrote:

    >> that's like blaming the steak for not cooking itself to the right
    >> temperature.


    I think you are both missing the point here, which is the inconsistency of
    the tools HP provided via MPE for handling lockwords. If the facility
    exists (as it plainly does) to allow lower-case lockwords, then the system
    should handle lower-case lockwords in *all* commands, intrinsics, etc. If
    the intent of the HP MPE programmers was to not allow lower-case lockwords
    (which appears to be the case) then *all* commands, intrinsics, etc. should
    have consistently either rejected invalid lockwords or upshifted them or
    whatever was needed to make it equisitely obvious to the user what was
    happening.

    I see this as another reason for us to "recreate" MPE, perhaps as a service
    under Linux (hint, hint)....


    Jim Phillips




    * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *
    No virus found in this incoming message.
    Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
    Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.10/1550 - Release Date: 7/13/2008
    5:58 PM

    * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *


  3. Re: Cannot Purge PRIV mode File Problem

    It was not my purpose to denigrate the people who wrote MPE. I was just pointing out that if tool A allows something and that something is different from what tool B expects, and both of these tools are available from the same place (MPE is this case), then they are not consistent with one another (as one would expect from a mature product such as MPE).

    As for what motivates me, that is another (rather off-topic) subject entirely.

    Jim


    --- On Mon, 7/14/08, Denys Beauchemin wrote:

    > From: Denys Beauchemin
    > Subject: RE: [HP3000-L] Cannot Purge PRIV mode File Problem
    > To: jkpe3000@yahoo.com, HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU
    > Date: Monday, July 14, 2008, 8:21 AM
    > It's not my purpose to defend the "HP MPE
    > programmers," but I would think
    > that when one is using AIF procedures which require
    > privileged mode, one
    > should be paying attention. When one is using a very
    > powerful tool, one
    > should be extra cautious.
    >
    > So, tell me again why you see this misuse of a tool as
    > another reason for
    > you to "recreate" MPE, as a service under Linux.
    > MPE, while being a
    > somewhat small operating system in comparison to current
    > ones, is still
    > quite large and if this infinitesimal aspect is your
    > motivating factor, I
    > foresee a rather large shock in your future.
    >
    > Denys
    >
    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: HP-3000 Systems Discussion
    > [mailto:HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU] On Behalf
    > Of Jim Phillips
    > Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 6:05 AM
    > To: HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU
    > Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] Cannot Purge PRIV mode File Problem
    >
    > On Sun, 13 Jul 2008 22:49:37 -0500 Denys Beauchemin writes:
    >
    > > Shawn, great answer.
    > >
    > > Another one is something about someone blaming his

    > tools for his errors.
    >
    > After Shawn Gordon on Sunday, July 13, 2008 4:13 PM wrote:
    >
    > >> that's like blaming the steak for not cooking

    > itself to the right
    > >> temperature.

    >
    > I think you are both missing the point here, which is the
    > inconsistency of
    > the tools HP provided via MPE for handling lockwords. If
    > the facility
    > exists (as it plainly does) to allow lower-case lockwords,
    > then the system
    > should handle lower-case lockwords in *all* commands,
    > intrinsics, etc. If
    > the intent of the HP MPE programmers was to not allow
    > lower-case lockwords
    > (which appears to be the case) then *all* commands,
    > intrinsics, etc. should
    > have consistently either rejected invalid lockwords or
    > upshifted them or
    > whatever was needed to make it equisitely obvious to the
    > user what was
    > happening.
    >
    > I see this as another reason for us to "recreate"
    > MPE, perhaps as a service
    > under Linux (hint, hint)....
    >
    >
    > Jim Phillips
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list
    > settings, *
    > * etc., please visit
    > http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *
    > No virus found in this incoming message.
    > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
    > Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.10/1550 - Release
    > Date: 7/13/2008
    > 5:58 PM





    * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *


  4. Re: Cannot Purge PRIV mode File Problem

    In message <000501c8e5ac$25514d80$6ff3e880$@net>, Denys Beauchemin
    writes
    >It's not my purpose to defend the "HP MPE programmers," but I would think
    >that when one is using AIF procedures which require privileged mode, one
    >should be paying attention. When one is using a very powerful tool, one
    >should be extra cautious.
    >
    >So, tell me again why you see this misuse of a tool as another reason for
    >you to "recreate" MPE, as a service under Linux. MPE, while being a
    >somewhat small operating system in comparison to current ones, is still
    >quite large and if this infinitesimal aspect is your motivating factor, I
    >foresee a rather large shock in your future.
    >
    >Denys


    If Brian can put a squinky lockword on a file using AIF routines, I'd
    expect he ought to be able to take it off again with those same
    routines.

    But then I'd expect him to test the return status from GETPRIVMODE,
    so.....

    --
    Roy Brown 'Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be
    Kelmscott Ltd useful, or believe to be beautiful' William Morris

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    * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *


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