Equation play: who triumphs? Nspire-CAS or HP 50G ? - Hewlett Packard

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Thread: Equation play: who triumphs? Nspire-CAS or HP 50G ?

  1. Equation play: who triumphs? Nspire-CAS or HP 50G ?


    For the facile articulation and manipulation of mathamatical expressions,

    who triumphs? Nspire-CAS or HP 50G ?


  2. Re: Equation play: who triumphs? Nspire-CAS or HP 50G ?

    Publicly Anonomous Use wrote in
    news:Xns9A7D6F4C87AF4IDToken254@66.250.146.128:

    >
    > For the facile articulation and manipulation of mathamatical expressions,
    >
    > who triumphs? Nspire-CAS or HP 50G ?
    >
    >


    I don't think I like this in the bid description:

    "Quickly and easily select the proper syntax, symbols and variables from a
    template..."

    -Sounds like a Casio convolution.




    Tag:"Who can afford experience?"

  3. Re: Equation play: who triumphs? Nspire-CAS or HP 50G ?

    On Apr 11, 1:55*pm, Publicly Anonomous Use
    wrote:
    > For the facile articulation and manipulation of mathamatical expressions,
    >
    > who triumphs? Nspire-CAS or HP 50G ?


    Well now, that is invoking a bit of a holy war, but the honest answer
    is that they both have strengths and weaknesses whose importance
    greatly varies with with the user, as well as with the user's
    experience with each.

    (I'm not very familiar with Nspire, but I'm reasonably confident that
    many of the overall differences in philosophy between the Ti-89 and
    the HP50g also apply to the Nspire).

    For example, the TI's auto-simplification is a nice feature, and often
    produces the desired result or very close to it. But if it fails to do
    so, there is relatively little you can do to convince it to transform
    the expression to the form you wanted. The HP50g simplifies very
    little by default, but has a wide array of commands to manipulate the
    result into your desired form. With expereince it is easy to get the
    form you want, but in the begining it is rather difficult. As for
    general entry of symbolic equations (or even numeric ones large enough
    that entering them step by step is error prone) the best testament to
    the HP50g's equation editor's design is the fact that it was ported to
    the TI-89 twice, once as a free app Hail, and once as EQW (originally
    available as a crippled free version, and a for-pay flash app
    version).

    I'm not sure if Nspire has a version of the equation editor built-in,
    but it would not surprise me. Assuming the Nspire support for units is
    the same as the TI-89's then it is by default slightly nicer than
    HP50g's unit support. Etc.

    The real bottom line is that the Ti-offerings are somewhat more user-
    friendly, and have a much shallower leaning curve, but the HP50g in
    general is far more powerful and customizable than TI's offerings. Of
    course there are almost certainly a few small exceptions, but that's
    life.
    Some other notes. Virtually all the functions in the the NSpire will
    work more-or-less as expected with symbolic arguments. For a variety
    of reasons, a fair number of HP50g commands do not have support for
    symbolic arguments, but in many cases there is a version of the
    function present that does have support.

  4. Re: Equation play: who triumphs? Nspire-CAS or HP 50G ?

    On Apr 11, 2:28*pm, username localhost
    wrote:
    >
    > I'm not sure if Nspire has a version of the equation editor built-in,
    > but it would not surprise me. Assuming the Nspire support for units is
    > the same as the TI-89's then it is by default slightly nicer than
    > HP50g's unit support. Etc.
    >


    I have both the TI-89 Titanium and the HP 50g and think the 50g has
    much better unit support than the 89-Ti does *if you know how to use
    the HP*. The ideal method of unit manipulation is not discussed in the
    user manual -- instead, a slower, more cumbersome method is
    demonstrated.

    On the 50g with soft menus (-117 SF), units are very easy to use. [r->]
    [UNITS] (the 6 key) brings up a soft menu of types of units (e.g.
    length, area, volume, time, speed...). Each of these contains the
    units of that category. Pressing the corresponding soft key multiplies
    whatever is in stack level 1 by that unit. Right-shifting that soft
    key will attempt to convert whatever is in stack level 1 to that unit,
    if the units agree (i.e. you can't convert 5 feet to hours). Finally,
    left-shifting the soft key will divide by that unit. This is much
    easier than the CONVERT command.

    On the TI-89, you must first type in the value, then the unit, then
    the "arrow" convert operator, and then finally the unit to be
    converted to. The HP simplifies this greatly by making unit conversion
    a two-keystroke process and is very efficient for chain-calculations.

    S.C.

  5. Re: Equation play: who triumphs? Nspire-CAS or HP 50G ?

    On Apr 11, 1:55*pm, Publicly Anonomous Use
    wrote:
    > For the facile articulation and manipulation of mathamatical expressions,
    >
    > who triumphs? Nspire-CAS or HP 50G ?


    Depends. The TI line is excellent for the average high school student
    who just wants his calculator to spit out the answer in a form similar
    to the back of the book. TI was aiming for the educational market, so
    this makes sense.

    The HP is much better for "outside-the-box" thinking where the user
    must come up with her own equations to use as opposed to simply
    copying them out of a textbook. This is valuable for real-world
    problem solving as well as mathematics competitions. The HP's RPN mode
    gives it a huge advantage when it comes to performing a series of
    operations on a number. There is no issue with intermediate rounding
    and it also saves keystrokes (and therefore time).

    So basically, if you're a student (high school, college,...), the TI
    will probably suit you better, unless you're the type of student who
    is willing to invest extra time to tinker with things. If you're out
    of school and need a calculator for math, the HP might be better as it
    is more flexible. If you're out of school and need to do serious math,
    you shouldn't be using a calculator anyway and probably already have
    some math program installed on your computer.

    S.C.

  6. Re: Equation play: who triumphs? Nspire-CAS or HP 50G ?

    May I correct you?

    "Left-shifting" that soft key will attempt to convert whatever is in
    stack level 1 to that unit,
    if the units agree...
    "Right-shifting" the soft key will divide by that unit.

    > On the 50g with soft menus (-117 SF), units are very easy to use. [r->]
    > [UNITS] (the 6 key) brings up a soft menu of types of units (e.g.
    > length, area, volume, time, speed...). Each of these contains the
    > units of that category. Pressing the corresponding soft key multiplies
    > whatever is in stack level 1 by that unit. Right-shifting that soft
    > key will attempt to convert whatever is in stack level 1 to that unit,
    > if the units agree (i.e. you can't convert 5 feet to hours). Finally,
    > left-shifting the soft key will divide by that unit. This is much
    > easier than the CONVERT command.



  7. Re: Equation play: who triumphs? Nspire-CAS or HP 50G ?

    On Apr 11, 8:29*pm, jdol...@gmail.com wrote:
    > May I correct you?
    >
    > "Left-shifting" that soft key will attempt to convert whatever is in
    > stack level 1 to that unit,
    > if the units agree...
    > "Right-shifting" the soft key will divide by that unit.
    >


    My mistake. Thanks for the catch.

    S.C.


  8. Re: Equation play: who triumphs? Nspire-CAS or HP 50G ?

    On Apr 11, 8:01*pm, sc_use...@hotmail.com wrote:
    > On Apr 11, 2:28*pm, username localhost
    > wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    > > I'm not sure if Nspire has a version of the equation editor built-in,
    > > but it would not surprise me. Assuming the Nspire support for units is
    > > the same as the TI-89's then it is by default slightly nicer than
    > > HP50g's unit support. Etc.

    >
    > I have both the TI-89 Titanium and the HP 50g and think the 50g has
    > much better unit support than the 89-Ti does *if you know how to use
    > the HP*. The ideal method of unit manipulation is not discussed in the
    > user manual -- instead, a slower, more cumbersome method is
    > demonstrated.
    >


    First notice that I said by default. Further, it is obvious that one
    is intended to use the softkeys
    rather than the choose menus. The features you mention are indeed
    mentioned in the manual too.
    However, The TI-89 comes with the ability (in fact the default
    behavior) of simplifying units. To do that on the HP50g requires
    external software. The HP50g appears to lack support for units in
    matrices.
    Then there are two small things i slighty prefer on the TI-89.
    One is that "_m" is valid, and "1_m" is not required. Annother is that
    custom defined units
    are stored with a leading underscore in their name, making it
    extremely clear when browsing what they are.
    Finally, I do like the fact that constants in the ti-89 use the same
    system as units. This makes sense. After all,
    is 'c' really a contant, or is it also a unit. when one says 0.95c
    they are effectively using it as a unit, not as a constant.
    How about 5g's? Same thing. I find that terribly convient. While this
    could obviously be replicated with custom units, that again
    is not a default feature.


  9. Re: Equation play: who triumphs? Nspire-CAS or HP 50G ?

    On Apr 12, 1:36*pm, username localhost
    wrote:
    > Finally, I do like the fact that constants in the ti-89 use the same
    > system as units. This makes sense. After all,


    Not sure what you mean here, but the 50g's CONLIB (constants library)
    expresses all the constants in terms of built-in units (e.g. g =
    9.80665 m/s^2; h = 6.626E-34 J-s; etc).

    > is 'c' really a contant, or is it also a unit. when one says 0.95c
    > they are effectively using it as a unit, not as a constant.
    > How about 5g's? Same thing. I find that terribly convient. While this
    > could obviously be replicated with custom units, that again
    > is not a default feature.
    >
    >


    Sure, 1c = 299792458 m/s, so 0.95c = (0.95)(299792458 m/s) = 284802835
    m/s, so c can be thought of as a constant that contains the m/s unit.

    S.C.

  10. Re: Equation play: who triumphs? Nspire-CAS or HP 50G ?

    username localhost wrote in
    news:ca509513-c78d-4fbb-bc03-fc40991551c1@u69g2000hse.googlegroups.com:

    > On Apr 11, 1:55*pm, Publicly Anonomous Use
    > wrote:
    >> For the facile articulation and manipulation of mathamatical
    >> expressions,
    >>
    >> who triumphs? Nspire-CAS or HP 50G ?

    >
    > Well now, that is invoking a bit of a holy war, but the honest answer
    > is that they both have strengths and weaknesses whose importance
    > greatly varies with with the user, as well as with the user's
    > experience with each.
    >
    > (I'm not very familiar with Nspire, but I'm reasonably confident that
    > many of the overall differences in philosophy between the Ti-89 and
    > the HP50g also apply to the Nspire).
    >
    > For example, the TI's auto-simplification is a nice feature, and often
    > produces the desired result or very close to it. But if it fails to do
    > so, there is relatively little you can do to convince it to transform
    > the expression to the form you wanted. The HP50g simplifies very
    > little by default, but has a wide array of commands to manipulate the
    > result into your desired form. With expereince it is easy to get the
    > form you want, but in the begining it is rather difficult. As for
    > general entry of symbolic equations (or even numeric ones large enough
    > that entering them step by step is error prone) the best testament to
    > the HP50g's equation editor's design is the fact that it was ported to
    > the TI-89 twice, once as a free app Hail, and once as EQW (originally
    > available as a crippled free version, and a for-pay flash app
    > version).
    >
    > I'm not sure if Nspire has a version of the equation editor built-in,
    > but it would not surprise me. Assuming the Nspire support for units is
    > the same as the TI-89's then it is by default slightly nicer than
    > HP50g's unit support. Etc.
    >
    > The real bottom line is that the Ti-offerings are somewhat more user-
    > friendly, and have a much shallower leaning curve, but the HP50g in
    > general is far more powerful and customizable than TI's offerings. Of
    > course there are almost certainly a few small exceptions, but that's
    > life.
    > Some other notes. Virtually all the functions in the the NSpire will
    > work more-or-less as expected with symbolic arguments. For a variety
    > of reasons, a fair number of HP50g commands do not have support for
    > symbolic arguments, but in many cases there is a version of the
    > function present that does have support.


    I've got to choose one or the other very soon, (for a variety of reasons)
    I'm holding a 38G, a 48S and the 35S, but I'm afraid I'll need something
    newer, faster and more complex if I continue with classes.

    I suppose, that while HP's rigour and precision is attractive, I need to
    balance the HP advantages of confidence and speed with a low user-demand
    during operation, as well as tactile sureity and simple durability.

    I just can't decide yet. Someone mentioned, and I agree that graphic
    calculators are not too common in the office, but I needn't worry about
    that for a while.

    One best tool, in an environment of academic theoretical abstractions,
    hmmm.. I suppose I'll have to put both to my hands for a few hours.
    Well, back to the mines...

    Thanks; -as usual, the group's full of friendly articulate people with a
    real sense to the working value of this type of equipment .



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