Unexpected boot on HP3000 - Hewlett Packard

This is a discussion on Unexpected boot on HP3000 - Hewlett Packard ; On March 25th, our HP3000 decided on its own to reboot. We had not experienced any power outages, voltage drops (that we could detect) or anyone doing a control-b restart. This seemed very strange to me in that I had ...

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Thread: Unexpected boot on HP3000

  1. Unexpected boot on HP3000

    On March 25th, our HP3000 decided on its own to reboot. We had not
    experienced any power outages, voltage drops (that we could detect) or
    anyone doing a control-b restart. This seemed very strange to me in that
    I had never seen this happen since beginning to work on HP3000's in
    1981. I talked to HP support (not the front line guys but the folks that
    have been around for 20+ years) and got the same reaction - "...never
    heard of this happening on a 3000 box. This wouldn't be the exception
    for a windows based machine."

    Has anyone on the list gone through an "automatic" boot on a HP3000 box
    before? If so, were you able to identify what caused the machine to
    reboot itself? Our HP3000 is a 959-KS400 running MPE6.5 power patch
    level 2.


    Herbert L. Statham
    cerrowire
    1099 Thompson Road SE
    Hartselle, AL 35640
    Office: 256 773-2522 x337



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  2. Re: Unexpected boot on HP3000

    Herb Statham wrote:
    > On March 25th, our HP3000 decided on its own to reboot. We had not
    > experienced any power outages, voltage drops (that we could detect) or
    > anyone doing a control-b restart. This seemed very strange to me in that
    > I had never seen this happen since beginning to work on HP3000's in
    > 1981. I talked to HP support (not the front line guys but the folks that
    > have been around for 20+ years) and got the same reaction - "...never
    > heard of this happening on a 3000 box. This wouldn't be the exception
    > for a windows based machine."
    >
    > Has anyone on the list gone through an "automatic" boot on a HP3000 box
    > before? If so, were you able to identify what caused the machine to
    > reboot itself? Our HP3000 is a 959-KS400 running MPE6.5 power patch
    > level 2.
    >
    >
    > Herbert L. Statham
    > cerrowire
    > 1099 Thompson Road SE
    > Hartselle, AL 35640
    > Office: 256 773-2522 x337
    >
    >
    >
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    >

    Dear Herbert,


    Not from personal experience, but a 'could have happened'.

    Do you use an UPS?

    The last HP3000 we managed started to get 'leaking' batteries.

    HP support had to replace all battery packs.


    Kind regards,


    Jan Gerrit Kootstra

  3. Re: Unexpected boot on HP3000

    Herb,

    Yes, I have seen it happen, it is usually caused by a HPMC (High Priority Machine check), i.e. hardware.

    You should be able to look at the chassis log files, hopefully there will be something there.

    -Craig


    Herb Statham wrote:
    On March 25th, our HP3000 decided on its own to reboot. We had not
    experienced any power outages, voltage drops (that we could detect) or
    anyone doing a control-b restart. This seemed very strange to me in that
    I had never seen this happen since beginning to work on HP3000's in
    1981. I talked to HP support (not the front line guys but the folks that
    have been around for 20+ years) and got the same reaction - "...never
    heard of this happening on a 3000 box. This wouldn't be the exception
    for a windows based machine."

    Has anyone on the list gone through an "automatic" boot on a HP3000 box
    before? If so, were you able to identify what caused the machine to
    reboot itself? Our HP3000 is a 959-KS400 running MPE6.5 power patch
    level 2.


    Herbert L. Statham
    cerrowire
    1099 Thompson Road SE
    Hartselle, AL 35640
    Office: 256 773-2522 x337



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  4. Re: Unexpected boot on HP3000

    Herb Statham wrote:
    > Has anyone on the list gone through an "automatic" boot on a HP3000 box
    > before? If so, were you able to identify what caused the machine to
    > reboot itself? Our HP3000 is a 959-KS400 running MPE6.5 power patch
    > level 2.


    There was, at some point in the 3000s history, a facility for automatic
    recovery from a system failure (Easytime? Autoboot?). It would dump
    memory to disk, and reboot itself. But this was generally propagated by
    a system failure.

    Did the system completely reboot, or pause at an ISL prompt?

    It sounds suspiciously like a power failure at the main processor, or
    some other "reset" (certain hardware machine checks) that initiated the
    hard reset.

    Jeff

    * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
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  5. Re: Unexpected boot on HP3000

    Jeff wrote:
    >There was, at some point in the 3000s history, a facility for automatic
    >recovery from a system failure (Easytime? Autoboot?).


    AUTORESTART/iX
    ISL> start -R
    -R turns system aborts from an infinite loop displaying "Bxxx DEAD xxxx" into a poke of a magic address which causes the equivalent of a "Control B (GSP)>TC".
    You then need an AUTOBOOT flag set to do an automatic "main> bo pri" or equivalent.
    Then IF you have AUTOBOOT file configured (via SYSGEN) the ISL can read commands out of in (like DUMP and START -R RECOVERY) and possibly get back to the MPE colon prompt. . .

    UPS Monitor:
    Will call preventative system abort if you're on battery and the battery isnear death.
    UPS Monitor actually clears the -R flag to protect you from trying to reboot with little remaining power.

    PDC (PA-RISC Processor Dependent Code):
    As Craig mentions some HPMCs seem to cause "TC" or "RS" like behavior. Without autoboot flag and AUTOBOOT you should get stuck in the pre-ISL steps of boot-up.


    Jim

    -----Original Message-----
    From: HP-3000 Systems Discussion [mailto:HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU] On Behalf Of Jeff Kell
    Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 4:54 PM
    To: HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU
    Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] Unexpected boot on HP3000

    Herb Statham wrote:
    > Has anyone on the list gone through an "automatic" boot on a HP3000 box
    > before? If so, were you able to identify what caused the machine to
    > reboot itself? Our HP3000 is a 959-KS400 running MPE6.5 power patch
    > level 2.


    There was, at some point in the 3000s history, a facility for automatic
    recovery from a system failure (Easytime? Autoboot?). It would dump
    memory to disk, and reboot itself. But this was generally propagated by
    a system failure.

    Did the system completely reboot, or pause at an ISL prompt?

    It sounds suspiciously like a power failure at the main processor, or
    some other "reset" (certain hardware machine checks) that initiated the
    hard reset.

    Jeff

    * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
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  6. Re: Unexpected boot on HP3000

    Once upon a time (on the "Classic" systems) there was a machine
    instruction which would cause an immediate warmstart or coolstart
    (and maybe additional options, but I'd have to check the old
    "Classic" machine instruction set manual).

    I worked on a government project with a few dozen HP3000s scattered
    around the globe that were often unattended, and that machine
    instruction came in very handy as I could remotely reboot a system when needed.

    I don't know if that "Classic" code would work on an iX box. Maybe
    Stan would know.

    John

    At 2008-03-26 09:01 PM, Hawkins, Jim (HP, MPE/iX Lab) wrote:
    >Jeff wrote:
    > >There was, at some point in the 3000s history, a facility for automatic
    > >recovery from a system failure (Easytime? Autoboot?).

    >
    >AUTORESTART/iX
    >ISL> start -R
    >-R turns system aborts from an infinite loop displaying "Bxxx DEAD
    >xxxx" into a poke of a magic address which causes the equivalent of
    >a "Control B (GSP)>TC".
    >You then need an AUTOBOOT flag set to do an automatic "main> bo pri"
    >or equivalent.
    >Then IF you have AUTOBOOT file configured (via SYSGEN) the ISL can
    >read commands out of in (like DUMP and START -R RECOVERY) and
    >possibly get back to the MPE colon prompt. . .
    >
    >UPS Monitor:
    >Will call preventative system abort if you're on battery and the
    >battery is near death.
    >UPS Monitor actually clears the -R flag to protect you from trying
    >to reboot with little remaining power.
    >
    >PDC (PA-RISC Processor Dependent Code):
    >As Craig mentions some HPMCs seem to cause "TC" or "RS" like
    >behavior. Without autoboot flag and AUTOBOOT you should get stuck
    >in the pre-ISL steps of boot-up.
    >
    >
    >Jim
    >
    >-----Original Message-----
    >From: HP-3000 Systems Discussion [mailto:HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU] On
    >Behalf Of Jeff Kell
    >Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 4:54 PM
    >To: HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU
    >Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] Unexpected boot on HP3000
    >
    >Herb Statham wrote:
    > > Has anyone on the list gone through an "automatic" boot on a HP3000 box
    > > before? If so, were you able to identify what caused the machine to
    > > reboot itself? Our HP3000 is a 959-KS400 running MPE6.5 power patch
    > > level 2.

    >
    >There was, at some point in the 3000s history, a facility for automatic
    >recovery from a system failure (Easytime? Autoboot?). It would dump
    >memory to disk, and reboot itself. But this was generally propagated by
    >a system failure.
    >
    >Did the system completely reboot, or pause at an ISL prompt?
    >
    >It sounds suspiciously like a power failure at the main processor, or
    >some other "reset" (certain hardware machine checks) that initiated the
    >hard reset.
    >
    >Jeff
    >
    >* To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    >* etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *
    >
    >* To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    >* etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *
    >
    >
    >--
    >No virus found in this incoming message.
    >Checked by AVG.
    >Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.0/1343 - Release Date:
    >2008-03-25 07:17 PM



    John
    *** When replying to this message, please do not delete these ***
    *** signature lines. Otakon Katsucon HP3000-L @classiccmp.org ***
    *** DigitalCosplay.com JohnKorbPhoto.com ***

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  7. Re: Unexpected boot on HP3000

    This may sound cheesy, but it seems to me all one needs to do is:

    1) have Autostart/iX turned on.

    2) Run an old CSL program which will you know will cause a system crash,
    like a really old version of DIRK, for example.

    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: HP-3000 Systems Discussion
    > [mailto:HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU] On Behalf Of John K.
    > Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 1:57 AM
    > To: HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU
    > Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] Unexpected boot on HP3000
    >
    > Once upon a time (on the "Classic" systems) there was a machine
    > instruction which would cause an immediate warmstart or coolstart
    > (and maybe additional options, but I'd have to check the old
    > "Classic" machine instruction set manual).
    >
    > I worked on a government project with a few dozen HP3000s scattered
    > around the globe that were often unattended, and that machine
    > instruction came in very handy as I could remotely reboot a
    > system when needed.
    >
    > I don't know if that "Classic" code would work on an iX box. Maybe
    > Stan would know.
    >
    > John
    >
    > At 2008-03-26 09:01 PM, Hawkins, Jim (HP, MPE/iX Lab) wrote:
    > >Jeff wrote:
    > > >There was, at some point in the 3000s history, a facility

    > for automatic
    > > >recovery from a system failure (Easytime? Autoboot?).

    > >
    > >AUTORESTART/iX
    > >ISL> start -R
    > >-R turns system aborts from an infinite loop displaying "Bxxx DEAD
    > >xxxx" into a poke of a magic address which causes the equivalent of
    > >a "Control B (GSP)>TC".
    > >You then need an AUTOBOOT flag set to do an automatic "main> bo pri"
    > >or equivalent.
    > >Then IF you have AUTOBOOT file configured (via SYSGEN) the ISL can
    > >read commands out of in (like DUMP and START -R RECOVERY) and
    > >possibly get back to the MPE colon prompt. . .
    > >
    > >UPS Monitor:
    > >Will call preventative system abort if you're on battery and the
    > >battery is near death.
    > >UPS Monitor actually clears the -R flag to protect you from trying
    > >to reboot with little remaining power.
    > >
    > >PDC (PA-RISC Processor Dependent Code):
    > >As Craig mentions some HPMCs seem to cause "TC" or "RS" like
    > >behavior. Without autoboot flag and AUTOBOOT you should get stuck
    > >in the pre-ISL steps of boot-up.
    > >
    > >
    > >Jim
    > >
    > >-----Original Message-----
    > >From: HP-3000 Systems Discussion [mailto:HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU] On
    > >Behalf Of Jeff Kell
    > >Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 4:54 PM
    > >To: HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU
    > >Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] Unexpected boot on HP3000
    > >
    > >Herb Statham wrote:
    > > > Has anyone on the list gone through an "automatic" boot

    > on a HP3000 box
    > > > before? If so, were you able to identify what caused the

    > machine to
    > > > reboot itself? Our HP3000 is a 959-KS400 running MPE6.5

    > power patch
    > > > level 2.

    > >
    > >There was, at some point in the 3000s history, a facility

    > for automatic
    > >recovery from a system failure (Easytime? Autoboot?). It would dump
    > >memory to disk, and reboot itself. But this was generally

    > propagated by
    > >a system failure.
    > >
    > >Did the system completely reboot, or pause at an ISL prompt?
    > >
    > >It sounds suspiciously like a power failure at the main processor, or
    > >some other "reset" (certain hardware machine checks) that

    > initiated the
    > >hard reset.
    > >
    > >Jeff
    > >
    > >* To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    > >* etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *
    > >
    > >* To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    > >* etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *
    > >
    > >
    > >--
    > >No virus found in this incoming message.
    > >Checked by AVG.
    > >Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.0/1343 - Release Date:
    > >2008-03-25 07:17 PM

    >
    >
    > John
    > *** When replying to this message, please do not delete these ***
    > *** signature lines. Otakon Katsucon HP3000-L @classiccmp.org ***
    > *** DigitalCosplay.com JohnKorbPhoto.com ***
    >
    > * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    > * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *
    >


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  8. Re: Unexpected boot on HP3000

    I don't remember which version of the OS introduced it, but there is now a
    "SHUTDOWN SYSTEM;RESTART" command. My first guess would be that the system
    autobooted following a high priority machine check (HPMC). You'll probably
    want to have HP check the system logs to see if they can find any sign of a
    HPMC.


    David N. Lukenbill
    Computer Sciences Corporation

    * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *


  9. Re: Unexpected boot on HP3000

    David,

    The SHUTDOWN CI command was introduced in 7.5. They are using 6.5 so it should not apply.

    Thanks...François

    -----Original Message-----
    From: HP-3000 Systems Discussion [mailto:HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU] On Behalf Of David N Lukenbill
    Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 9:49 AM
    To: HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU
    Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] Unexpected boot on HP3000

    I don't remember which version of the OS introduced it, but there is now a
    "SHUTDOWN SYSTEM;RESTART" command. My first guess would be that the system
    autobooted following a high priority machine check (HPMC). You'll probably
    want to have HP check the system logs to see if they can find any sign of a
    HPMC.


    David N. Lukenbill
    Computer Sciences Corporation

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  10. Re: Unexpected boot on HP3000

    There is a software product from HP called AutoRestart/iX that will,
    upon detecting a software related System Abort, automatically restart
    the system, take a memory dump and restart the system again. This has
    to be set up. Many parts of the automated restart can be set up
    without purchasing the product. (I have taken advantage of these
    features for years.)

    Might I suggest checking the system logs to find out what happened?

    Mark Ranft
    Pro 3K

  11. Re: Unexpected boot on HP3000

    If you have older logs available, you might compare the shutdown and restart
    times with an orderly shutdown and restart. If the shutdown time is less,
    that points to a crash. If they match, that sounds at least like an orderly
    shutdown and restart. If this is longer, that sounds like someone shutdown
    the machine, and had to think about what to do next.

    Greg Stigers

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  12. Re: Unexpected boot on HP3000

    "John K." wrote in message
    news:20080327055528.JCIN880.eastrmmtao101.cox.net@ eastrmimpo01.cox.net...
    > Once upon a time (on the "Classic" systems) there was a machine
    > instruction which would cause an immediate warmstart or coolstart (and
    > maybe additional options, but I'd have to check the old "Classic" machine
    > instruction set manual).
    >
    > I worked on a government project with a few dozen HP3000s scattered around
    > the globe that were often unattended, and that machine instruction came in
    > very handy as I could remotely reboot a system when needed.
    >
    > I don't know if that "Classic" code would work on an iX box. Maybe Stan
    > would know.
    >


    I believe that all Classic HP 3000 systems implemented the HALT machine
    instruction which would halt the system, disable all interrupts and require
    manual intervention to restart. That is not an emulated or translated
    instruction in MPE/iX's compatibility mode.
    In PA-RISC with memory mapped hardware access you simply "STW" a specific
    value to an architecturally defined address and the every card on the system
    will "hard" reset itself (RS); the same command sent only to the monarch CPU
    will result in a soft reset of the system (TC).







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