# HP 35s

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• 03-25-2008, 12:30 AM
unix
HP 35s
Hello everyone. I've used a 48sx for 18 years. I just bought a 35s
just too see if I can rest my 48sx. I noticed a couple of things and
was wondering if someone can tell me if there is a way to change the
settings on the 35s.

1. On the 48sx when you start typing out a number the number is on
the left and when you enter the number, the number is on the right.
So you know that the number has been entered. It is annoying in the
35s that when you enter a number the number appears twice. I guess
this tells me that the number has been entered in the stack, but is
there a way to show me a zero on the first stack instead of the same
number after I enter a number? When the 35s does this, you can do
arithmetic on two numbers, even though I entered only one number
(remember I'm coming from a 48sx perspective).

2. On the 48sx I can enter many numbers to the stack. Then I can do
any operation I want. On the 35s, It seems there are only 4 stacks,
then it repeats the number that was on stack 4. What the heck is
going on! It feels like it is algebraic calculator!

3. On the 48sx, when you clear, it was to clear the stack. With the
35s, I have to clear, then clear all, then clear all 'yes'. Is there
a faster way of doing this?

I hope HP one day they will put a 4 roll screen so we can see more
than two stacks at one time!

Other than that,
• 03-25-2008, 01:26 AM
unix
Re: HP 35s
On Mar 24, 8:30*pm, cylur...@gmail.com wrote:[color=blue]
> 1. *On the 48sx when you start typing out a number the number is on
> the left and when you enter the number, the number is on the right.
> So you know that the number has been entered. *It is annoying in the
> 35s that when you enter a number the number appears twice. *I guess
> this tells me that the number has been entered in the stack, but is
> there a way to show me a zero on the first stack instead of the same
> number after I enter a number? When the 35s does this, you can do
> arithmetic on two numbers, even though I entered only one number
> (remember I'm coming from a 48sx perspective).
>
> 2. *On the 48sx I can enter many numbers to the stack. *Then I can do
> any operation I want. *On the 35s, It seems there are only 4 stacks,
> then it repeats the number that was on stack 4. *What the heck is
> going on! *It feels like it is algebraic calculator!
>[/color]

This is because of the fundamental difference between RPL calculators
and RPN calculators. The HP's that use RPL include the 28/48/49 series
while the RPN models include the Classic, Voyager, Pioneer, and the
33/35s, to name a few.

RPL calculators feature an "infinite" stack and when a number is
entered it appears on level 1 only. RPN calculators work slightly
differently, as you have noticed. Hence to square a number in RPL, you
need X ENTER ENTER * while using RPN you just type X ENTER *.

Since the original HP35 in 1972, the stack size in RPN calculators has
been limited to 4 stack levels. Even though the newest models have
much more memory, the 4-level stack was probably kept because (a) it
promoted program compatability, and (b) without being able to see all
the stack levels at once, 4 seems like a good number such that the
human mind is capable of keeping track of all the levels. Remember, on
the 48SX, you can scroll through the stack (and see 4 levels at once).
On the pocket scientifics, you must roll through the stack to do this.
With more than 4 levels, this might get inconvenient.

S.C.
• 03-25-2008, 03:40 AM
unix
Re: HP 35s
On Mar 24, 9:26*pm, sc_use...@hotmail.com wrote:[color=blue]
> On Mar 24, 8:30*pm, cylur...@gmail.com wrote:
>[color=green]
> > 1. *On the 48sx when you start typing out a number the number is on
> > the left and when you enter the number, the number is on the right.
> > So you know that the number has been entered. *It is annoying in the
> > 35s that when you enter a number the number appears twice. *I guess
> > this tells me that the number has been entered in the stack, but is
> > there a way to show me a zero on the first stack instead of the same
> > number after I enter a number? When the 35s does this, you can do
> > arithmetic on two numbers, even though I entered only one number
> > (remember I'm coming from a 48sx perspective).[/color]
>[color=green]
> > 2. *On the 48sx I can enter many numbers to the stack. *Then I can do
> > any operation I want. *On the 35s, It seems there are only 4 stacks,
> > then it repeats the number that was on stack 4. *What the heck is
> > going on! *It feels like it is algebraic calculator![/color]
>
> This is because of the fundamental difference between RPL calculators
> and RPN calculators. The HP's that use RPL include the 28/48/49 series
> while the RPN models include the Classic, Voyager, Pioneer, and the
> 33/35s, to name a few.
>
> RPL calculators feature an "infinite" stack and when a number is
> entered it appears on level 1 only. RPN calculators work slightly
> differently, as you have noticed. Hence to square a number in RPL, you
> need X ENTER ENTER * while using RPN you just type X ENTER *.
>
> Since the original HP35 in 1972, the stack size in RPN calculators has
> been limited to 4 stack levels. Even though the newest models have
> much more memory, the 4-level stack was probably kept because (a) it
> promoted program compatability, and (b) without being able to see all
> the stack levels at once, 4 seems like a good number such that the
> human mind is capable of keeping track of all the levels. Remember, on
> the 48SX, you can scroll through the stack (and see 4 levels at once).
> On the pocket scientifics, you must roll through the stack to do this.
> With more than 4 levels, this might get inconvenient.
>
> S.C.[/color]

Thanks for the explanation. I used a 42s from about '89 to '91, but I
don't remember anything about it. Then I got a 48g in '95 and have
been using it ever since. When I got the 35s I was confused in the
same way the original poster was. I assume my 42s worked the same way
and I'm just not remembering it. It is taking some time to get used
to. I've gotten used to the way the stack works for the most part.
However, I still can't get used to everything taking place on the left
side of the screen. It's a small thing, but it just seems so odd to me.
• 03-25-2008, 05:26 AM
unix
Re: HP 35s
This makes much more sense. It also makes sense that my 11c acts
different from my 48sx. Has there been an HP calculator which have
more then 2 rows and is a RPL that is not a 48/49/50?

Thanks.
• 03-25-2008, 08:04 AM
unix
Re: HP 35s
<cylurian@gmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:6ed3fe66-1f26-4eed-8130-c42777b6c97a@s19g2000prg.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
> [..]
> Has there been an HP calculator which have
> more then 2 rows and is a RPL that is not a 48/49/50?
>[/color]
Yes: HP-28C , HP-28S, and internally, also the 18C and 19B/II .

HTH

Raymond

• 03-25-2008, 06:53 PM
unix
Re: HP 35s
[email]cylurian@gmail.com[/email] wrote:[color=blue]
> 3. On the 48sx, when you clear, it was to clear the stack. With the
> 35s, I have to clear, then clear all, then clear all 'yes'. Is there
> a faster way of doing this?[/color]

[right-shift] [clear] [5]

(clear the 4 register "stack")

WD
--
• 03-25-2008, 07:37 PM
unix
Re: HP 35s
On 2008-03-25, Walter Dvorak <use-reply-to@invalid.invalid> wrote:[color=blue]
> [email]cylurian@gmail.com[/email] wrote:[color=green]
>> 3. On the 48sx, when you clear, it was to clear the stack. With the
>> 35s, I have to clear, then clear all, then clear all 'yes'. Is there
>> a faster way of doing this?[/color]
>
> [right-shift] [clear] [5]
>
> (clear the 4 register "stack")[/color]

You can also type "0 enter enter enter". While it is one more keystroke
than using the clear menu, it is just as fast becase only two separate
buttons are required, one of them is really big, and you don't have to
remember which off-screen menu option is the one you need.

More generally, I think the fixed stack requires a different way of
thinking than the infinite stack of RPL - generally, one *doesn't* clear
it, and it doesn't matter. Just let the stuff you don't care about
anymore scroll off the top. I came to the 35s from the 48 as well, and
it took a little getting used to, but now I'm just as happy that I don't
have to bother clearing the stack all the time. (I do wish "undo" worked
for all operations, though)
• 03-25-2008, 07:59 PM
unix
Re: HP 35s
You are right. You have to think differently with an RPN calculator
than a RPL. On an RPN calculator it seems you are forced to make sure
you follow orders of operation, in an RPL you don't. You can mix it
up as you go.

On Mar 25, 12:37*pm, Terran Melconian
<te_rem_ra_ove_an_fors...@consistent.org> wrote:[color=blue]
> On 2008-03-25, Walter Dvorak <use-reply...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>[color=green]
> > cylur...@gmail.com wrote:[color=darkred]
> >> 3. *On the 48sx, when you clear, it was to clear the stack. *With the
> >> 35s, I have to clear, then clear all, then clear all 'yes'. *Is there
> >> a faster way of doing this?[/color][/color]
>[color=green]
> > * *[right-shift] [clear] [5][/color]
>[color=green]
> > * *(clear the 4 register "stack")[/color]
>
> You can also type "0 enter enter enter". *While it is one more keystroke
> than using the clear menu, it is just as fast becase only two separate
> buttons are required, one of them is really big, and you don't have to
> remember which off-screen menu option is the one you need.
>
> More generally, I think the fixed stack requires a different way of
> thinking than the infinite stack of RPL - generally, one *doesn't* clear
> it, and it doesn't matter. *Just let the stuff you don't care about
> anymore scroll off the top. *I came to the 35s from the 48 as well, and
> it took a little getting used to, but now I'm just as happy that I don't
> have to bother clearing the stack all the time. (I do wish "undo" worked
> for all operations, though)[/color]

• 03-26-2008, 01:47 AM
unix
Re: HP 35s
On Mar 25, 1:59 pm, cylur...@gmail.com wrote:[color=blue]
> You are right. You have to think differently with an RPN calculator
> than a RPL. On an RPN calculator it seems you are forced to make sure
> you follow orders of operation, in an RPL you don't. You can mix it
> up as you go.
>
> On Mar 25, 12:37 pm, Terran Melconian
>
> <te_rem_ra_ove_an_fors...@consistent.org> wrote:[color=green]
> > On 2008-03-25, Walter Dvorak <use-reply...@invalid.invalid> wrote:[/color]
>[color=green][color=darkred]
> > > cylur...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >> 3. On the 48sx, when you clear, it was to clear the stack. With the
> > >> 35s, I have to clear, then clear all, then clear all 'yes'. Is there
> > >> a faster way of doing this?[/color][/color]
>[color=green][color=darkred]
> > > [right-shift] [clear] [5][/color][/color]
>[color=green][color=darkred]
> > > (clear the 4 register "stack")[/color][/color]
>[color=green]
> > You can also type "0 enter enter enter". While it is one more keystroke
> > than using the clear menu, it is just as fast becase only two separate
> > buttons are required, one of them is really big, and you don't have to
> > remember which off-screen menu option is the one you need.[/color]
>[color=green]
> > More generally, I think the fixed stack requires a different way of
> > thinking than the infinite stack of RPL - generally, one *doesn't* clear
> > it, and it doesn't matter. Just let the stuff you don't care about
> > anymore scroll off the top. I came to the 35s from the 48 as well, and
> > it took a little getting used to, but now I'm just as happy that I don't
> > have to bother clearing the stack all the time. (I do wish "undo" worked
> > for all operations, though)[/color][/color]

I haven't been around for a while, did they fix all the 35s bugs? eg.
the decimals outside of the screen...
thanks for responses
• 03-26-2008, 02:49 PM
unix
Re: HP 35s
On 2008-03-26, J.Chen <chenjulio@gmail.com> wrote:[color=blue]
> I haven't been around for a while, did they fix all the 35s bugs? eg.
> the decimals outside of the screen... > thanks for responses[/color]

They have fixed few, if any. From the bugs list here:

[url]http://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/hpmuseum/articles.cgi?read=735[/url]

I have not found a single bug that has been fixed in my recent hp35s,
and I have found several which are not fixed (I can confirm 2,3,10,12,
at least as still present). I suspect there simply has not been a
firmware update at all. Disappointing.
• 03-27-2008, 06:40 PM
unix
Re: HP 35s
J.Chen <chenjulio@gmail.com> wrote:[color=blue]
> I haven't been around for a while, did they fix all the 35s bugs?[/color]

Even newer 35s (build date CNA8020....) have some
spurious behaviour like:

2 [+/-] [sqrt] -> error: "sqrt negative"
2 [+/-] [enter] 0.5 [y^x] -> error: "invalid y^x"
2 [+/-] [i] 0 [enter] 0.5 [y^x] -> correct result. (0i1.141...)

very strange. Seems that the "automatic" conversion from a real input
type to a complex output type doesnt work.

there are some more functions which are not able to handle
complex inputs and/or results. (like asin(-2.5) results in error
"invalid data". the trick doesnt work here: asin(-2.5i0) results
also in an "invalid data" error)

If you are looking for a calculator which is able to handle
smoothly complex numbers, the HP35s is not the best choice....

WD
--
• 03-28-2008, 01:24 AM
unix
Re: HP 35s
This is a very tiny issue, but does anyone else have a squeaky C/Off/
On button? It works fine and doesn't miss any keystrokes, but it
squeaks. When I first got the calculator I thought there was an actual
"beep" associated with turning the calculator on and off. It almost
sounds like the 48g's beep.