Re: HP7933 - Was: newbie question -storing a file from tape to disk - - Hewlett Packard

This is a discussion on Re: HP7933 - Was: newbie question -storing a file from tape to disk - - Hewlett Packard ; Yeah, they were called green heads as I think. Huge fail rate, kept HP busy for months replacing them all >From: Gary Robillard >Date: 2008/03/06 Thu PM 03:10:42 CST >To: HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU >Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] HP7933 - Was: newbie question -storing ...

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Thread: Re: HP7933 - Was: newbie question -storing a file from tape to disk -

  1. Re: HP7933 - Was: newbie question -storing a file from tape to disk -

    Yeah, they were called green heads as I think.

    Huge fail rate, kept HP busy for months replacing them all

    >From: Gary Robillard
    >Date: 2008/03/06 Thu PM 03:10:42 CST
    >To: HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU
    >Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] HP7933 - Was: newbie question -storing a file fromtape to disk -


    >Since the 7933/35 topic seems to live on...
    >
    >The head problem didn't cause disk crashes, but was a problem where the head
    >cables would become intermittent and finally would lose their connection,
    >causing read/write problems (if you were writing when the cable quit, you
    >now had bad data on your disk). That is what prompted the badsectr utility
    >which was originally written for MPE/V.
    >
    >The 7933 was released because they couldn't get the seal right in order to
    >prevent contamination from entering the disk pack when it was changed, so
    >the door unlock was defeated and it was a 'fixed' pack. Once the seal
    >problem was fixed, the 7935 was released with the 'door open' switch
    >operable...
    >
    >Thanks,
    >
    >Gary Robillard
    >
    >
    >
    >-----Original Message-----
    >From: HP-3000 Systems Discussion [mailto:HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU] On Behalf
    >Of Gilles Schipper
    >Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 11:36 AM
    >To: HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU
    >Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] HP7933 - Was: newbie question -storing a file from
    >tape to disk -
    >
    >If my memory serves me correctly, some time after the 7933 was announced and
    >became quite popular, HP had a massive "recall" in order to change faulty
    >heads that were causing disk crashes.
    >
    >This required CE's to replace the heads on any affected 7933 at the next
    >opportunuity - usually the next preventative maintenance call.
    >
    >Now here is where my memory may be a bit fuzzier, but I seem to recall that
    >around that time, HP announced the 7935, which was exactly the same as the
    >7933, but was modified to permit the user to replace the disk¬*pack itself.
    >
    >(Perhaps the 7935 was the original and the 7933 was the one with
    >user-replaceble disk packs.)
    >
    >-----------------------------------------------------------------------
    >-
    >Gilles Schipper
    >GSA Inc.
    >HP System Administration Specialists
    >300 John Street, Box 87651 ¬* Thornhill, ON Canada L3T 7R4
    >Voice: 905.889.3000 ¬*¬*¬*¬*Fax: 905.889.3001 ¬*
    >email: ¬*gilles@gsainc.com ¬*web: http://www.gsainc.com
    >-----------------------------------------------------------------------
    >-
    >
    >---------- Original Message -----------
    >From: "Bob J."
    >To: HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU
    >Sent: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 13:20:14 -0500
    >Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] HP7933 - Was: newbie question -storing a file from
    >tape to disk -
    >
    >> As we travel down memory lane............
    >> CEs were supplied a hoist to attempt installing & servicing the upper
    >> 7933 drives.
    >> That setup never seemed safe for anybody within 20 feet of the racked
    >> drives.
    >> Sleuth was fun for the Series II/III. SleuthSM (simulator) was nice for

    >the
    >> HP-IB systems. Those utilities that did the actuator "butterfly" test
    >> would usually pass
    >> through the resonant frequency of the drive to make some scary noises.
    >>
    >> Bob J. -- Ideal Computer Services
    >> http://www.icsgroup.net
    >>
    >> Jeff Kell wrote:
    >>
    >> >>> ¬*
    >> >>
    >> >>
    >> >> Does anyone recall the "rack-mounts" for stacking 7933s? ¬* Anyone else
    >> >> ever
    >> >> "race" 7933s across the DP centre floor by judicious use of adager or
    >> >> fcopy?
    >> >
    >> >
    >> > 'Sleuth' on a 7920/7925 could produce some very humorous results. ¬*
    >> > Don't recall that utility making it beyond the Series II/IIIs though.
    >> >
    >> > Jeff
    >> >
    >> > * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    >> > * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *
    >> >
    >> >

    >>
    >> * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    >> * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *

    >------- End of Original Message -------
    >
    >
    >
    >* To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    >* etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *
    >
    >* To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    >* etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *



    joseph dolliver
    e3k solutions , inc
    41630 marie court
    leonardtown, md 20650
    301-475-6985

    * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *


  2. Re: HP7933 - Was: newbie question -storing a file from tape to disk -

    I believe you are correct. They had to color-code them. I remember the jockeying for position to get these heads, what a screw-up that was.

    Does anyone remember when HP got out of the disk drive business? I think it was around 1995.

    Denys...

    -----Original Message-----
    From: HP-3000 Systems Discussion [mailto:HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU] On Behalf Of Joseph Dolliver
    Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 5:14 PM
    To: HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU
    Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] HP7933 - Was: newbie question -storing a file from tape to disk -

    Yeah, they were called green heads as I think.

    Huge fail rate, kept HP busy for months replacing them all

    >From: Gary Robillard
    >Date: 2008/03/06 Thu PM 03:10:42 CST
    >To: HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU
    >Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] HP7933 - Was: newbie question -storing a file from tape to disk -


    >Since the 7933/35 topic seems to live on...
    >
    >The head problem didn't cause disk crashes, but was a problem where the head
    >cables would become intermittent and finally would lose their connection,
    >causing read/write problems (if you were writing when the cable quit, you
    >now had bad data on your disk). That is what prompted the badsectr utility
    >which was originally written for MPE/V.
    >
    >The 7933 was released because they couldn't get the seal right in order to
    >prevent contamination from entering the disk pack when it was changed, so
    >the door unlock was defeated and it was a 'fixed' pack. Once the seal
    >problem was fixed, the 7935 was released with the 'door open' switch
    >operable...
    >
    >Thanks,
    >
    >Gary Robillard
    >
    >
    >
    >-----Original Message-----
    >From: HP-3000 Systems Discussion [mailto:HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU] On Behalf
    >Of Gilles Schipper
    >Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 11:36 AM
    >To: HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU
    >Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] HP7933 - Was: newbie question -storing a file from
    >tape to disk -
    >
    >If my memory serves me correctly, some time after the 7933 was announced and
    >became quite popular, HP had a massive "recall" in order to change faulty
    >heads that were causing disk crashes.
    >
    >This required CE's to replace the heads on any affected 7933 at the next
    >opportunuity - usually the next preventative maintenance call.
    >
    >Now here is where my memory may be a bit fuzzier, but I seem to recall that
    >around that time, HP announced the 7935, which was exactly the same as the
    >7933, but was modified to permit the user to replace the diskpack itself.
    >
    >(Perhaps the 7935 was the original and the 7933 was the one with
    >user-replaceble disk packs.)
    >
    >-----------------------------------------------------------------------
    >-
    >Gilles Schipper
    >GSA Inc.
    >HP System Administration Specialists
    >300 John Street, Box 87651 Thornhill, ON Canada L3T 7R4
    >Voice: 905.889.3000 Fax: 905.889.3001
    >email: gilles@gsainc.com web: http://www.gsainc.com
    >-----------------------------------------------------------------------
    >-
    >
    >---------- Original Message -----------
    >From: "Bob J."
    >To: HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU
    >Sent: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 13:20:14 -0500
    >Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] HP7933 - Was: newbie question -storing a file from
    >tape to disk -
    >
    >> As we travel down memory lane............
    >> CEs were supplied a hoist to attempt installing & servicing the upper
    >> 7933 drives.
    >> That setup never seemed safe for anybody within 20 feet of the racked
    >> drives.
    >> Sleuth was fun for the Series II/III. SleuthSM (simulator) was nice for

    >the
    >> HP-IB systems. Those utilities that did the actuator "butterfly" test
    >> would usually pass
    >> through the resonant frequency of the drive to make some scary noises.
    >>
    >> Bob J. -- Ideal Computer Services
    >> http://www.icsgroup.net
    >>
    >> Jeff Kell wrote:
    >>
    >> >>>
    >> >>
    >> >>
    >> >> Does anyone recall the "rack-mounts" for stacking 7933s? Anyone else
    >> >> ever
    >> >> "race" 7933s across the DP centre floor by judicious use of adager or
    >> >> fcopy?
    >> >
    >> >
    >> > 'Sleuth' on a 7920/7925 could produce some very humorous results.
    >> > Don't recall that utility making it beyond the Series II/IIIs though.
    >> >
    >> > Jeff
    >> >
    >> > * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    >> > * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *
    >> >
    >> >

    >>
    >> * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    >> * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *

    >------- End of Original Message -------
    >
    >
    >
    >* To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    >* etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *
    >
    >* To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    >* etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *



    joseph dolliver
    e3k solutions , inc
    41630 marie court
    leonardtown, md 20650
    301-475-6985

    * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *

    * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *


  3. Re: HP7933 - Was: newbie question -storing a file from tape to disk -

    Denys Beauchemin wrote: I believe you are correct. They had to color-code them. I remember the jockeying for position to get these heads, what a screw-up that was.

    Does anyone remember when HP got out of the disk drive business? I think it was around 1995.


    My turn for memory lane.

    In the early 90's, we order a dozen or so 2GB drives from HP... the lead time we were given was 8 - 12 weeks and the cost was 2k, per drive.

    I opened one of the drive enclosures and found a Seagate Barracuda drive... that was selling at Egg Head Software, in the building where i worked for less than 400 dollars.

    HP said there was a difference in firmware that would prevent it from working....

    -Craig

    BTW - the drives worked fine. :-)

    * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *


  4. Re: HP7933 - Was: newbie question -storing a file from tape to disk -

    The head cable connectors were color-coded depending on the drive they
    were manufactured for...either 793X or 792X. I don't recall which was
    which, but there were green connectors and yellow connectors on the new
    heads. I think the green ones were for the 792X drives and the yellow
    ones were for the 793X drives, but it could be the other way.

    Something else you may have run into, was the 7933 head assembly getting
    stuck to the "crash stop". If the drive thought the heads might be
    about to crash, such as during a power failure, the actuator would do an
    emergency retract to get the heads off of the platters to prevent a
    crash. The actuator would retract the heads really fast and the head
    assembly would come to a rest when it hit a foam pad called the "crash
    stop". With age, the foam pad started to deteriorate and became sticky
    (like the foam sound abatement for a 256X printer). When a 7933 with a
    sticky crash stop experienced a power failure, the actuator assembly
    would retract back fast and get stuck to the foam. When power came back
    on, the heads wouldn't load because they were still stuck to the crash
    stop. A quick flick of your finger was all it took to get the heads
    rolling on their rails again. What was HP's solution to fix this?


    Answer: apply talcum powder to the foam pad, being sure to dust it off
    good to minimize the amount of powder that could find its way into the
    disk chamber.

    Then there's the time I pull-started a 7933 spindle motor using one of
    my shoe strings, like pull starting a lawn mower. The 7933s ran for a
    long time and the ball bearings in the motor heated up. When powered
    down for a PM, they cooled. Sometimes when trying to spin them back up,
    they wouldn't get up to speed quick enough during the self test so the
    self test would fail, not allowing the drive to be used. I removed my
    shoe string, wrapped it around the large nut on the bottom of the disk
    pack spindle motor, turned on the drive and pulled as hard as I could to
    help the motor get up to speed. It worked. Spindle motors didn't fail
    that often, so we didn't stock one in our HP office. Once the drive was
    up to speed and passed its self test, the drive could be used for a few
    days while I ordered a spindle motor to replace the defective one.


    Regards,

    Steve Gray
    Abtech Support



    -----Original Message-----
    From: HP-3000 Systems Discussion [mailto:HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU] On
    Behalf Of Denys Beauchemin
    Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 9:26 PM
    To: HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU
    Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] HP7933 - Was: newbie question -storing a file
    from tape to disk -

    I believe you are correct. They had to color-code them. I remember the
    jockeying for position to get these heads, what a screw-up that was.

    Does anyone remember when HP got out of the disk drive business? I
    think it was around 1995.

    Denys...

    -----Original Message-----
    From: HP-3000 Systems Discussion [mailto:HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU] On
    Behalf Of Joseph Dolliver
    Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 5:14 PM
    To: HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU
    Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] HP7933 - Was: newbie question -storing a file
    from tape to disk -

    Yeah, they were called green heads as I think.

    Huge fail rate, kept HP busy for months replacing them all

    >From: Gary Robillard
    >Date: 2008/03/06 Thu PM 03:10:42 CST
    >To: HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU
    >Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] HP7933 - Was: newbie question -storing a file
    >from tape to disk -


    >Since the 7933/35 topic seems to live on...
    >
    >The head problem didn't cause disk crashes, but was a problem where the


    >head cables would become intermittent and finally would lose their
    >connection, causing read/write problems (if you were writing when the
    >cable quit, you now had bad data on your disk). That is what prompted
    >the badsectr utility which was originally written for MPE/V.
    >
    >The 7933 was released because they couldn't get the seal right in order


    >to prevent contamination from entering the disk pack when it was
    >changed, so the door unlock was defeated and it was a 'fixed' pack.
    >Once the seal problem was fixed, the 7935 was released with the 'door
    >open' switch operable...
    >
    >Thanks,
    >
    >Gary Robillard
    >
    >
    >
    >-----Original Message-----
    >From: HP-3000 Systems Discussion [mailto:HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU] On
    >Behalf Of Gilles Schipper
    >Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 11:36 AM
    >To: HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU
    >Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] HP7933 - Was: newbie question -storing a file
    >from tape to disk -
    >
    >If my memory serves me correctly, some time after the 7933 was
    >announced and became quite popular, HP had a massive "recall" in order
    >to change faulty heads that were causing disk crashes.
    >
    >This required CE's to replace the heads on any affected 7933 at the
    >next opportunuity - usually the next preventative maintenance call.
    >
    >Now here is where my memory may be a bit fuzzier, but I seem to recall
    >that around that time, HP announced the 7935, which was exactly the
    >same as the 7933, but was modified to permit the user to replace the

    diskpack itself.
    >
    >(Perhaps the 7935 was the original and the 7933 was the one with
    >user-replaceble disk packs.)
    >
    >-----------------------------------------------------------------------
    >-
    >Gilles Schipper
    >GSA Inc.
    >HP System Administration Specialists
    >300 John Street, Box 87651 Thornhill, ON Canada L3T 7R4
    >Voice: 905.889.3000 Fax: 905.889.3001
    >email: gilles@gsainc.com web: http://www.gsainc.com
    >-----------------------------------------------------------------------
    >-
    >
    >---------- Original Message -----------
    >From: "Bob J."
    >To: HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU
    >Sent: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 13:20:14 -0500
    >Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] HP7933 - Was: newbie question -storing a file
    >from tape to disk -
    >
    >> As we travel down memory lane............
    >> CEs were supplied a hoist to attempt installing & servicing the upper
    >> 7933 drives.
    >> That setup never seemed safe for anybody within 20 feet of the racked


    >> drives.
    >> Sleuth was fun for the Series II/III. SleuthSM (simulator) was nice
    >> for

    >the
    >> HP-IB systems. Those utilities that did the actuator "butterfly" test


    >> would usually pass through the resonant frequency of the drive to
    >> make some scary noises.
    >>
    >> Bob J. -- Ideal Computer Services
    >> http://www.icsgroup.net
    >>
    >> Jeff Kell wrote:
    >>
    >> >>>
    >> >>
    >> >>
    >> >> Does anyone recall the "rack-mounts" for stacking 7933s? Anyone
    >> >> else ever "race" 7933s across the DP centre floor by judicious use


    >> >> of adager or fcopy?
    >> >
    >> >
    >> > 'Sleuth' on a 7920/7925 could produce some very humorous results.
    >> > Don't recall that utility making it beyond the Series II/IIIs

    though.
    >> >
    >> > Jeff
    >> >
    >> > * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    >> > * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *
    >> >
    >> >

    >>
    >> * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    >> * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *

    >------- End of Original Message -------
    >
    >
    >
    >* To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    >* etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *
    >
    >* To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    >* etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *



    joseph dolliver
    e3k solutions , inc
    41630 marie court
    leonardtown, md 20650
    301-475-6985

    * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *

    * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *

    * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *


  5. Re: HP7933 - Was: newbie question -storing a file from tape to disk -

    Denys wrote: Does anyone remember when HP got out of the disk drive business? I think it was around 1995.

    I don't remember exactly when it was but, I think the 2490 drive was a big part of it. We had many cabinets filled with them and HP was replacing them all the time. Thank god they were mirrored! They failed so often, sometimes more than one on the same day. We actually worried the second drive in a mirrored pair might fail before HP replaced the bad one. I think we came close once or twice, the second drive failing within a week or two of the first.

    Josh

    * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *


  6. Re: HP7933 - Was: newbie question -storing a file from tape to disk -

    Ah, but HP will spend a long time explaining why their firmware version is
    better than somebody else's firmware version. This is why you need to buy
    the HP-branded Seagate drive for 3-4 times the cost of just buying it from
    Seagate directly.



    Denys...

    From: Craig Lalley [mailto:mr_lalley@yahoo.com]
    Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 10:56 PM
    To: Denys Beauchemin; HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU
    Subject: Re: HP7933 - Was: newbie question -storing a file from tape to disk
    -





    Denys Beauchemin wrote:

    I believe you are correct. They had to color-code them. I remember the
    jockeying for position to get these heads, what a screw-up that was.

    Does anyone remember when HP got out of the disk drive business? I think it
    was around 1995.


    My turn for memory lane.

    In the early 90's, we order a dozen or so 2GB drives from HP... the lead
    time we were given was 8 - 12 weeks and the cost was 2k, per drive.

    I opened one of the drive enclosures and found a Seagate Barracuda drive...
    that was selling at Egg Head Software, in the building where i worked for
    less than 400 dollars.

    HP said there was a difference in firmware that would prevent it from
    working....

    -Craig

    BTW - the drives worked fine. :-)


    * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *


  7. Re: HP7933 - Was: newbie question -storing a file from tape to disk -

    I vaguely remember the "sticktion" problem. This occurred when the drive
    would be powered down for some reason and then would refuse to spin up when
    power was applied to it again. I think or CE's were saying there was some
    kind of grommet that deteriorated over time and just stuck to the spindle
    shaft when the drive was powered down and it colled a bit.

    At about that time the Eagle disk drive started appearing and this actually
    caused me some worry. Up to that point, all the disk drives I had used had
    removable packs (one way or the other of the 7933, we knew how to do it.)
    The vast majority of problems with the disk drives were power and head
    related. If you had a disk drive break down on you, you could remove the
    pack and put it into a spare drive and get production going.

    With the Eagle drive, this option was no longer viable; if the drive packed
    it in, it was reload time. This was a bit of a change and it took some
    getting used to. It seems a little funny, 20 years later.

    Denys...

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Steve Gray [mailto:sgray@abtechsupport.com]
    Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 11:45 PM
    To: Denys Beauchemin; HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU
    (snip)

    Then there's the time I pull-started a 7933 spindle motor using one of
    my shoe strings, like pull starting a lawn mower. The 7933s ran for a
    long time and the ball bearings in the motor heated up. When powered
    down for a PM, they cooled. Sometimes when trying to spin them back up,
    they wouldn't get up to speed quick enough during the self test so the
    self test would fail, not allowing the drive to be used. I removed my
    shoe string, wrapped it around the large nut on the bottom of the disk
    pack spindle motor, turned on the drive and pulled as hard as I could to
    help the motor get up to speed. It worked. Spindle motors didn't fail
    that often, so we didn't stock one in our HP office. Once the drive was
    up to speed and passed its self test, the drive could be used for a few
    days while I ordered a spindle motor to replace the defective one.


    Regards,

    Steve Gray
    Abtech Support


    * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *


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