HP7933 - Was: newbie question -storing a file from tape to disk - - Hewlett Packard

This is a discussion on HP7933 - Was: newbie question -storing a file from tape to disk - - Hewlett Packard ; On: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 20:54:49 -0800, Steve Gray wrote: > I believe the 7933 drives were around $33,000 each in the mid-80's. Does anyone recall the "rack-mounts" for stacking 7933s? Anyone else ever "race" 7933s across the DP centre ...

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Thread: HP7933 - Was: newbie question -storing a file from tape to disk -

  1. HP7933 - Was: newbie question -storing a file from tape to disk -

    On: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 20:54:49 -0800, Steve Gray wrote:

    > I believe the 7933 drives were around $33,000 each in the mid-80's.


    Does anyone recall the "rack-mounts" for stacking 7933s? Anyone else ever
    "race" 7933s across the DP centre floor by judicious use of adager or fcopy?



    --
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  2. Re: HP7933 - Was: newbie question -storing a file from tape to disk-

    No not with software. But I remember the earthquake of 1989 almost
    caused several of them to rock into holes in the computer floor. The
    holes were openings where someone had lifted up floor tiles to look at
    wiring - in the mpe lab...


    James B. Byrne wrote:
    > On: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 20:54:49 -0800, Steve Gray wrote:
    >
    >> I believe the 7933 drives were around $33,000 each in the mid-80's.

    >
    > Does anyone recall the "rack-mounts" for stacking 7933s? Anyone else ever
    > "race" 7933s across the DP centre floor by judicious use of adager or fcopy?
    >
    >
    >


  3. Re: HP7933 - Was: newbie question -storing a file from tape to disk -

    As we travel down memory lane............
    CEs were supplied a hoist to attempt installing & servicing the upper
    7933 drives.
    That setup never seemed safe for anybody within 20 feet of the racked
    drives.
    Sleuth was fun for the Series II/III. SleuthSM (simulator) was nice for the
    HP-IB systems. Those utilities that did the actuator "butterfly" test
    would usually pass
    through the resonant frequency of the drive to make some scary noises.

    Bob J. -- Ideal Computer Services
    http://www.icsgroup.net



    Jeff Kell wrote:

    >>>

    >>
    >>
    >> Does anyone recall the "rack-mounts" for stacking 7933s? Anyone else
    >> ever
    >> "race" 7933s across the DP centre floor by judicious use of adager or
    >> fcopy?

    >
    >
    > 'Sleuth' on a 7920/7925 could produce some very humorous results.
    > Don't recall that utility making it beyond the Series II/IIIs though.
    >
    > Jeff
    >
    > * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    > * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *
    >
    >


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  4. Re: HP7933 - Was: newbie question -storing a file from tape to disk -

    If my memory serves me correctly, some time after the 7933 was announced and became quite popular, HP had a massive "recall" in order to change faulty heads that were causing disk crashes.

    This required CE's to replace the heads on any affected 7933 at the next opportunuity - usually the next preventative maintenance call.

    Now here is where my memory may be a bit fuzzier, but I seem to recall that around that time, HP announced the 7935, which was exactly the same as the 7933, but was modified to permit the user to replace the disk*pack itself.

    (Perhaps the 7935 was the original and the 7933 was the one with user-replaceble disk packs.)

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    -
    Gilles Schipper
    GSA Inc.
    HP System Administration Specialists
    300 John Street, Box 87651 * Thornhill, ON Canada L3T 7R4
    Voice: 905.889.3000 ****Fax: 905.889.3001 *
    email: *gilles@gsainc.com *web: http://www.gsainc.com
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    -

    ---------- Original Message -----------
    From: "Bob J."
    To: HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU
    Sent: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 13:20:14 -0500
    Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] HP7933 - Was: newbie question -storing a file from tape to disk -

    > As we travel down memory lane............
    > CEs were supplied a hoist to attempt installing & servicing the upper
    > 7933 drives.
    > That setup never seemed safe for anybody within 20 feet of the racked
    > drives.
    > Sleuth was fun for the Series II/III. SleuthSM (simulator) was nice for the
    > HP-IB systems. Those utilities that did the actuator "butterfly" test
    > would usually pass
    > through the resonant frequency of the drive to make some scary noises.
    >
    > Bob J. -- Ideal Computer Services
    > http://www.icsgroup.net
    >
    > Jeff Kell wrote:
    >
    > >>> *
    > >>
    > >>
    > >> Does anyone recall the "rack-mounts" for stacking 7933s? * Anyone else
    > >> ever
    > >> "race" 7933s across the DP centre floor by judicious use of adager or
    > >> fcopy?

    > >
    > >
    > > 'Sleuth' on a 7920/7925 could produce some very humorous results. *
    > > Don't recall that utility making it beyond the Series II/IIIs though.
    > >
    > > Jeff
    > >
    > > * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    > > * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *
    > >
    > >

    >
    > * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    > * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *

    ------- End of Original Message -------



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  5. Re: HP7933 - Was: newbie question -storing a file from tape to disk -

    On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 10:36 AM, Gilles Schipper wrote:
    > If my memory serves me correctly, some time after the 7933 was announced and became
    > quite popular, HP had a massive "recall" in order to change faulty heads that were causing disk
    > crashes.
    >
    > This required CE's to replace the heads on any affected 7933 at the next opportunuity -
    > usually the next preventative maintenance call.


    oh yes...i remember this! bit us hard...since the army in it's
    infinite wisdom had decided to award our support contract to another
    company. neither tweedle-dum or tweedle-dee knew what to do. after
    day two of being down, with drive guts laying all over the floor....hp
    was called in (on time and materials!) and had us back up within a
    couple of hours. - d

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  6. Re: HP7933 - Was: newbie question -storing a file from tape to disk -

    That 7933 was a sad example of HP not living up to their sales pitch.
    That drive was never
    stable from when it was introduced (violent retract - exploding
    actuator) until they
    reached their pre-mature end of life with bad head cables. I remember
    Boise Division
    being chastised by CEO John Young for their failure.

    Bob J. -- Ideal Computer Services
    http://www.icsgroup.net


    donna hofmeister wrote:

    >On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 10:36 AM, Gilles Schipper wrote:
    >
    >
    >>If my memory serves me correctly, some time after the 7933 was announced and became
    >>quite popular, HP had a massive "recall" in order to change faulty heads that were causing disk
    >>crashes.
    >>
    >> This required CE's to replace the heads on any affected 7933 at the next opportunuity -
    >>usually the next preventative maintenance call.
    >>
    >>

    >
    >oh yes...i remember this! bit us hard...since the army in it's
    >infinite wisdom had decided to award our support contract to another
    >company. neither tweedle-dum or tweedle-dee knew what to do. after
    >day two of being down, with drive guts laying all over the floor....hp
    >was called in (on time and materials!) and had us back up within a
    >couple of hours. - d
    >
    >* To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    >* etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *
    >
    >
    >
    >


    * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *


  7. Re: HP7933 - Was: newbie question -storing a file from tape to disk -

    Gilles,

    The 7935 had the user-removable pack. The 7933 pack was removable as well, but the top shroud of the 7933 had to be removed first to gain access to the door-lock mechanism.

    The heads of these drives had clear plastic tubes (like an air hose in an aquarium) that enclosed and protected the tiny head wires. The plastic tube would get hard/brittle over time and would eventually break. As the head mechanism went back and forth across the platters, the plastic tube was constantly getting flexed. Once the plastic tubing broke, it would start to wear away at the tiny head wires, eventually breaking them, and causing disk read/write errors. For a while, there was a shortage of replacement disk heads. HP couldn't keep up with the demand for them. I replaced hundreds of these disk heads in Texas, Louisiana, and North Carolina. This problem was found in the 792X drives as well.


    Regards,

    Steve Gray
    Abtech Support


    -----Original Message-----
    From: HP-3000 Systems Discussion [mailto:HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU] On Behalf Of Gilles Schipper
    Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 12:36 PM
    To: HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU
    Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] HP7933 - Was: newbie question -storing a file from tape to disk -

    If my memory serves me correctly, some time after the 7933 was announced and became quite popular, HP had a massive "recall" in order to change faulty heads that were causing disk crashes.

    This required CE's to replace the heads on any affected 7933 at the next opportunuity - usually the next preventative maintenance call.

    Now here is where my memory may be a bit fuzzier, but I seem to recall that around that time, HP announced the 7935, which was exactly the same as the 7933, but was modified to permit the user to replace the disk*pack itself.

    (Perhaps the 7935 was the original and the 7933 was the one with user-replaceble disk packs.)

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    -
    Gilles Schipper
    GSA Inc.
    HP System Administration Specialists
    300 John Street, Box 87651 * Thornhill, ON Canada L3T 7R4
    Voice: 905.889.3000 ****Fax: 905.889.3001
    email: *gilles@gsainc.com *web: http://www.gsainc.com
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    -

    ---------- Original Message -----------
    From: "Bob J."
    To: HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU
    Sent: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 13:20:14 -0500
    Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] HP7933 - Was: newbie question -storing a file from tape to disk -

    > As we travel down memory lane............
    > CEs were supplied a hoist to attempt installing & servicing the upper
    > 7933 drives.
    > That setup never seemed safe for anybody within 20 feet of the racked
    > drives.
    > Sleuth was fun for the Series II/III. SleuthSM (simulator) was nice
    > for the HP-IB systems. Those utilities that did the actuator
    > "butterfly" test would usually pass through the resonant frequency of
    > the drive to make some scary noises.
    >
    > Bob J. -- Ideal Computer Services
    > http://www.icsgroup.net
    >
    > Jeff Kell wrote:
    >
    > >>> *
    > >>
    > >>
    > >> Does anyone recall the "rack-mounts" for stacking 7933s? * Anyone
    > >> else ever "race" 7933s across the DP centre floor by judicious use
    > >> of adager or fcopy?

    > >
    > >
    > > 'Sleuth' on a 7920/7925 could produce some very humorous results.
    > > Don't recall that utility making it beyond the Series II/IIIs though.
    > >
    > > Jeff
    > >
    > > * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    > > * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *
    > >
    > >

    >
    > * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    > * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *

    ------- End of Original Message -------



    * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *

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  8. Re: HP7933 - Was: newbie question -storing a file from tape to disk -

    And lest we forget, when the 7933 would come up, it would take quite a while
    to get on-line. Later a new firmware version added the wonderful message
    "PURGE" during that long pause. After a few CE's were yelled at, HP changed
    the message to "AIRPURGE".

    That memory lane is getting pretty long.

    Denys...
    -----Original Message-----
    From: HP-3000 Systems Discussion [mailto:HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU] On Behalf
    Of Gilles Schipper
    Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 12:36 PM
    To: HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU
    Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] HP7933 - Was: newbie question -storing a file from
    tape to disk -

    If my memory serves me correctly, some time after the 7933 was announced and
    became quite popular, HP had a massive "recall" in order to change faulty
    heads that were causing disk crashes.

    This required CE's to replace the heads on any affected 7933 at the next
    opportunuity - usually the next preventative maintenance call.

    Now here is where my memory may be a bit fuzzier, but I seem to recall that
    around that time, HP announced the 7935, which was exactly the same as the
    7933, but was modified to permit the user to replace the disk*pack itself.

    (Perhaps the 7935 was the original and the 7933 was the one with
    user-replaceble disk packs.)

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    -
    Gilles Schipper
    GSA Inc.
    HP System Administration Specialists
    300 John Street, Box 87651 * Thornhill, ON Canada L3T 7R4
    Voice: 905.889.3000 ****Fax: 905.889.3001 *
    email: *gilles@gsainc.com *web: http://www.gsainc.com
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    -

    ---------- Original Message -----------
    From: "Bob J."
    To: HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU
    Sent: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 13:20:14 -0500
    Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] HP7933 - Was: newbie question -storing a file from
    tape to disk -

    > As we travel down memory lane............
    > CEs were supplied a hoist to attempt installing & servicing the upper
    > 7933 drives.
    > That setup never seemed safe for anybody within 20 feet of the racked
    > drives.
    > Sleuth was fun for the Series II/III. SleuthSM (simulator) was nice for

    the
    > HP-IB systems. Those utilities that did the actuator "butterfly" test
    > would usually pass
    > through the resonant frequency of the drive to make some scary noises.
    >
    > Bob J. -- Ideal Computer Services
    > http://www.icsgroup.net
    >
    > Jeff Kell wrote:
    >
    > >>> *
    > >>
    > >>
    > >> Does anyone recall the "rack-mounts" for stacking 7933s? * Anyone else
    > >> ever
    > >> "race" 7933s across the DP centre floor by judicious use of adager or
    > >> fcopy?

    > >
    > >
    > > 'Sleuth' on a 7920/7925 could produce some very humorous results. *
    > > Don't recall that utility making it beyond the Series II/IIIs though.
    > >
    > > Jeff
    > >
    > > * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    > > * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *
    > >
    > >

    >
    > * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    > * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *

    ------- End of Original Message -------



    * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *

    * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *


  9. Re: HP7933 - Was: newbie question -storing a file from tape to disk -

    Aren't all packs are removable? One just needs the right set of
    screwdrivers and other tools?

    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: HP-3000 Systems Discussion
    > [mailto:HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU] On Behalf Of Steve Gray
    > Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 2:08 PM
    > To: HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU
    > Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] HP7933 - Was: newbie question
    > -storing a file from tape to disk -
    >
    > Gilles,
    >
    > The 7935 had the user-removable pack. The 7933 pack was
    > removable as well, but the top shroud of the 7933 had to be
    > removed first to gain access to the door-lock mechanism.
    >


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    * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *


  10. Re: HP7933 - Was: newbie question -storing a file from tape to disk -

    There was also a problem when the 7925 drives were powered down, the heads
    continued to write a spiral of garbage data on the discs as the heads were
    retracted and the platters were still spinning.


    ************************************************** *************
    CDR Paul Edwards USNR Ret. HP 3000 Certified Consultant
    Paul Edwards & Associates
    1506 Estates Way Phone: (972) 242-6660
    Carrollton TX 75006 Cel : (214) 384-8728
    Email: pedwards@gte.net Web : www.peassoc.com
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  11. Re: HP7933 - Was: newbie question -storing a file from tape to disk -

    A good friend of mine talked about an HP 3000 installation (Port of Tacoma I
    think) where they built an anti-vibration area for the 7933 drives in case a
    ship hit the side of the locks. They used to joke that the floor was really
    designed to keep the 7933 drives from vibrating the ships into the side of the
    locks...

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  12. Re: HP7933 - Was: newbie question -storing a file from tape to disk -

    Gilles Schipper wrote:
    > Now here is where my memory may be a bit fuzzier, but I seem to
    > recall that around that time, HP announced the 7935, which was
    > exactly the same as the 7933, but was modified to permit the user
    > to replace the disk?pack itself.


    I believe the 7935 was announced first and was the original drive, but
    they were unable to certify the user-removable pack feature so the
    drives could not ship on time. As a result everyone got 7933s. I
    don't remember for sure if the 7933 was created because of this problem
    or whether they always intended to provide a non-removable pack version.

    The 7933s all started out with a button (some even labeled) to open
    the top, but the button wires were not connected.

    HP eventualy certified the 7935s, but I think there were a lot more 33s
    in the wild.

    I believe the "404MB" 9793x drives may have been the first example of
    a manufacturer (or at least HP) using the MB == 1,000,000 insead of
    MB == 1,048,576. The reason is that the 7933 would only have been
    only 385 MB with the base-2 numbering and by changing the definition
    of a megabyte, marketing was able to push the drive capacity over 400MB
    which sounded a lot better than 385MB.

    One of the last great pieces of Real Hardware.

    G.

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