OT: Which is your favorite? - Hewlett Packard

This is a discussion on OT: Which is your favorite? - Hewlett Packard ; > In war, it's never who's right...it's who's left. I venture to say that Europeans in general and the Germans in particular possess a considerable sentiment to the contrary. > The US is the only country I know that went ...

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Thread: OT: Which is your favorite?

  1. OT: Which is your favorite?

    > In war, it's never who's right...it's who's left.

    I venture to say that Europeans in general and the Germans in particular
    possess a considerable sentiment to the contrary.

    > The US is the only country I know that went from barbarism to decadence
    > in 200 years and missed out civilization in between.


    Untrue. The United States of America is a highly civilized and generally a
    beneficent member of the community of states.

    The frightening lesson to be taken from the past eight years of U.S. history
    is that even highly civilized states with considerable systemic protection
    from aberrant behaviour on the part of public office holders can be led into
    doing terrible and self-destructive acts. All it requires is enough public
    hysteria, usually generated by irrational fear, to close ones mind to the
    enormity of the error one is committing.

    However, and this is the critical point, all fears eventually pass and in
    their place ofttimes comes remorse. In a civilized country, as the USA most
    certainly is, this remorse leads to self-examination, reflection, and
    eventually the erection of even greater social protections against the whim of
    emotion. This is the stage that the U.S. is now entering and those that
    betrayed their country whilst consumed by the passions of fear will find
    themselves ever more shunned and marginalized by those who deeply and
    profoundly regret what has happened. The guilty may never stand trial, for
    such is the case with the powerful, but the influence and persuasiveness of
    their beliefs will diminish. For many of them, this will be a harsher
    punishment than any a court could impose.

    We need only look to the past and consider how in past generations the beliefs
    professed and treatment meted out by the powerful towards aboriginal peoples
    in the 19-20C; Socialists, Germans and Chinese in the early 20C; Germans and
    Japanese during WWII; Communists in the 1950s; and blacks up to the present
    day are now widely held in contempt by mainstream society.

    The mark of a civilized people is not that they never err, but that they learn
    from those errors.

    Sincerely,


    --
    *** E-Mail is NOT a SECURE channel ***
    James B. Byrne mailto:ByrneJB@Harte-Lyne.ca
    Harte & Lyne Limited http://www.harte-lyne.ca
    9 Brockley Drive vox: +1 905 561 1241
    Hamilton, Ontario fax: +1 905 561 0757
    Canada L8E 3C3

    * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *


  2. Re: OT: Which is your favorite?

    James, thank you for the great analysis of the damages wrought by the AGW
    hoax. One can only hope that Algore will be arrested and punished, but as
    you say, that's not likely to happen. The other public officials that
    perpetuated the myth should also be dealt with, but I doubt this will occur.

    The damage inflicted on this country by the perpetuation of this hoax that
    played on the public's fear, is incalculable. We are now burning our food
    supply for fuel because we are absolutely scared to use oil. We are leaving
    this oil to be drilled for by other countries who do not share our current
    hysteria.

    Burning our food supply is leading to massive increases in the price of food
    which will hit women, children and minorities hardest. This will get even
    worse as the planet continues to cool down; we are heading for colder,
    harsher winters, with no capacity to deal with the increase in the need for
    energy.

    As people realize the whole thing was a manufactured scare it will be up to
    us to convince our leaders to get with reality and stop the aberrant
    behavior.

    Thanks again, James.

    Denys...

    -----Original Message-----
    From: HP-3000 Systems Discussion [mailto:HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU] On Behalf
    Of James B. Byrne
    Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 9:45 AM
    To: HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU
    Subject: [HP3000-L] OT: Which is your favorite?

    > In war, it's never who's right...it's who's left.


    I venture to say that Europeans in general and the Germans in particular
    possess a considerable sentiment to the contrary.

    > The US is the only country I know that went from barbarism to decadence
    > in 200 years and missed out civilization in between.


    Untrue. The United States of America is a highly civilized and generally a
    beneficent member of the community of states.

    The frightening lesson to be taken from the past eight years of U.S. history
    is that even highly civilized states with considerable systemic protection
    from aberrant behaviour on the part of public office holders can be led into
    doing terrible and self-destructive acts. All it requires is enough public
    hysteria, usually generated by irrational fear, to close ones mind to the
    enormity of the error one is committing.

    However, and this is the critical point, all fears eventually pass and in
    their place ofttimes comes remorse. In a civilized country, as the USA most
    certainly is, this remorse leads to self-examination, reflection, and
    eventually the erection of even greater social protections against the whim
    of
    emotion. This is the stage that the U.S. is now entering and those that
    betrayed their country whilst consumed by the passions of fear will find
    themselves ever more shunned and marginalized by those who deeply and
    profoundly regret what has happened. The guilty may never stand trial, for
    such is the case with the powerful, but the influence and persuasiveness of
    their beliefs will diminish. For many of them, this will be a harsher
    punishment than any a court could impose.

    We need only look to the past and consider how in past generations the
    beliefs
    professed and treatment meted out by the powerful towards aboriginal peoples
    in the 19-20C; Socialists, Germans and Chinese in the early 20C; Germans and
    Japanese during WWII; Communists in the 1950s; and blacks up to the present
    day are now widely held in contempt by mainstream society.

    The mark of a civilized people is not that they never err, but that they
    learn
    from those errors.

    Sincerely,


    --
    *** E-Mail is NOT a SECURE channel ***
    James B. Byrne mailto:ByrneJB@Harte-Lyne.ca
    Harte & Lyne Limited http://www.harte-lyne.ca
    9 Brockley Drive vox: +1 905 561 1241
    Hamilton, Ontario fax: +1 905 561 0757
    Canada L8E 3C3

    * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *

    * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *


  3. Re: OT: Which is your favorite?

    Denys

    What is the "A" of AGW?

    I know GW is Global Warming, is the A Algore?

    By the way, I always wondered what caused global warming and cooling and
    I finally
    found my answer on the Discovery Channel. It's all in the earth's
    orbit. It goes
    from circular, (warmer), to somewhat ovular, (colder). My daughters,
    (18 and 21),
    have taken this global warming crap hook line and sinker thanks, in
    part, to the fine
    California public school system of indoctrination. It'll take years to
    get
    them back...

    Ernie

    -----Original Message-----
    From: HP-3000 Systems Discussion [mailto:HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU] On
    Behalf Of Denys Beauchemin
    Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 11:12 AM
    To: HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU
    Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] OT: Which is your favorite?

    James, thank you for the great analysis of the damages wrought by the
    AGW hoax. One can only hope that Algore will be arrested and punished,
    but as you say, that's not likely to happen. The other public officials
    that perpetuated the myth should also be dealt with, but I doubt this
    will occur.

    The damage inflicted on this country by the perpetuation of this hoax
    that played on the public's fear, is incalculable. We are now burning
    our food supply for fuel because we are absolutely scared to use oil.
    We are leaving this oil to be drilled for by other countries who do not
    share our current hysteria.

    Burning our food supply is leading to massive increases in the price of
    food which will hit women, children and minorities hardest. This will
    get even worse as the planet continues to cool down; we are heading for
    colder, harsher winters, with no capacity to deal with the increase in
    the need for energy.

    As people realize the whole thing was a manufactured scare it will be up
    to us to convince our leaders to get with reality and stop the aberrant
    behavior.

    Thanks again, James.

    Denys...

    -----Original Message-----
    From: HP-3000 Systems Discussion [mailto:HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU] On
    Behalf Of James B. Byrne
    Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 9:45 AM
    To: HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU
    Subject: [HP3000-L] OT: Which is your favorite?

    > In war, it's never who's right...it's who's left.


    I venture to say that Europeans in general and the Germans in particular
    possess a considerable sentiment to the contrary.

    > The US is the only country I know that went from barbarism to
    > decadence in 200 years and missed out civilization in between.


    Untrue. The United States of America is a highly civilized and
    generally a beneficent member of the community of states.

    The frightening lesson to be taken from the past eight years of U.S.
    history is that even highly civilized states with considerable systemic
    protection from aberrant behaviour on the part of public office holders
    can be led into doing terrible and self-destructive acts. All it
    requires is enough public hysteria, usually generated by irrational
    fear, to close ones mind to the enormity of the error one is committing.

    However, and this is the critical point, all fears eventually pass and
    in their place ofttimes comes remorse. In a civilized country, as the
    USA most certainly is, this remorse leads to self-examination,
    reflection, and eventually the erection of even greater social
    protections against the whim of emotion. This is the stage that the
    U.S. is now entering and those that betrayed their country whilst
    consumed by the passions of fear will find themselves ever more shunned
    and marginalized by those who deeply and profoundly regret what has
    happened. The guilty may never stand trial, for such is the case with
    the powerful, but the influence and persuasiveness of their beliefs will
    diminish. For many of them, this will be a harsher punishment than any
    a court could impose.

    We need only look to the past and consider how in past generations the
    beliefs professed and treatment meted out by the powerful towards
    aboriginal peoples in the 19-20C; Socialists, Germans and Chinese in the
    early 20C; Germans and Japanese during WWII; Communists in the 1950s;
    and blacks up to the present day are now widely held in contempt by
    mainstream society.

    The mark of a civilized people is not that they never err, but that they
    learn from those errors.

    Sincerely,


    --
    *** E-Mail is NOT a SECURE channel ***
    James B. Byrne mailto:ByrneJB@Harte-Lyne.ca
    Harte & Lyne Limited http://www.harte-lyne.ca
    9 Brockley Drive vox: +1 905 561 1241
    Hamilton, Ontario fax: +1 905 561 0757
    Canada L8E 3C3

    * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *

    * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *

    The Yolo County Office of Education has scanned this message for viruses
    and dangerous content

    * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *


  4. Re: OT: Which is your favorite?

    A is Anthropogenic, which means man-made. This is the correct name of the
    hoax that Man is responsible for the planet warming and cooling.

    Denys...

    -----Original Message-----
    From: HP-3000 Systems Discussion [mailto:HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU] On Behalf
    Of Newton, Ernie
    Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 1:47 PM
    To: HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU
    Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] OT: Which is your favorite?

    Denys

    What is the "A" of AGW?

    I know GW is Global Warming, is the A Algore?

    By the way, I always wondered what caused global warming and cooling and
    I finally
    found my answer on the Discovery Channel. It's all in the earth's
    orbit. It goes
    from circular, (warmer), to somewhat ovular, (colder). My daughters,
    (18 and 21),
    have taken this global warming crap hook line and sinker thanks, in
    part, to the fine
    California public school system of indoctrination. It'll take years to
    get
    them back...

    Ernie

    -----Original Message-----
    From: HP-3000 Systems Discussion [mailto:HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU] On
    Behalf Of Denys Beauchemin
    Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 11:12 AM
    To: HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU
    Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] OT: Which is your favorite?

    James, thank you for the great analysis of the damages wrought by the
    AGW hoax. One can only hope that Algore will be arrested and punished,
    but as you say, that's not likely to happen. The other public officials
    that perpetuated the myth should also be dealt with, but I doubt this
    will occur.

    The damage inflicted on this country by the perpetuation of this hoax
    that played on the public's fear, is incalculable. We are now burning
    our food supply for fuel because we are absolutely scared to use oil.
    We are leaving this oil to be drilled for by other countries who do not
    share our current hysteria.

    Burning our food supply is leading to massive increases in the price of
    food which will hit women, children and minorities hardest. This will
    get even worse as the planet continues to cool down; we are heading for
    colder, harsher winters, with no capacity to deal with the increase in
    the need for energy.

    As people realize the whole thing was a manufactured scare it will be up
    to us to convince our leaders to get with reality and stop the aberrant
    behavior.

    Thanks again, James.

    Denys...

    -----Original Message-----
    From: HP-3000 Systems Discussion [mailto:HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU] On
    Behalf Of James B. Byrne
    Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 9:45 AM
    To: HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU
    Subject: [HP3000-L] OT: Which is your favorite?

    > In war, it's never who's right...it's who's left.


    I venture to say that Europeans in general and the Germans in particular
    possess a considerable sentiment to the contrary.

    > The US is the only country I know that went from barbarism to
    > decadence in 200 years and missed out civilization in between.


    Untrue. The United States of America is a highly civilized and
    generally a beneficent member of the community of states.

    The frightening lesson to be taken from the past eight years of U.S.
    history is that even highly civilized states with considerable systemic
    protection from aberrant behaviour on the part of public office holders
    can be led into doing terrible and self-destructive acts. All it
    requires is enough public hysteria, usually generated by irrational
    fear, to close ones mind to the enormity of the error one is committing.

    However, and this is the critical point, all fears eventually pass and
    in their place ofttimes comes remorse. In a civilized country, as the
    USA most certainly is, this remorse leads to self-examination,
    reflection, and eventually the erection of even greater social
    protections against the whim of emotion. This is the stage that the
    U.S. is now entering and those that betrayed their country whilst
    consumed by the passions of fear will find themselves ever more shunned
    and marginalized by those who deeply and profoundly regret what has
    happened. The guilty may never stand trial, for such is the case with
    the powerful, but the influence and persuasiveness of their beliefs will
    diminish. For many of them, this will be a harsher punishment than any
    a court could impose.

    We need only look to the past and consider how in past generations the
    beliefs professed and treatment meted out by the powerful towards
    aboriginal peoples in the 19-20C; Socialists, Germans and Chinese in the
    early 20C; Germans and Japanese during WWII; Communists in the 1950s;
    and blacks up to the present day are now widely held in contempt by
    mainstream society.

    The mark of a civilized people is not that they never err, but that they
    learn from those errors.

    Sincerely,


    --
    *** E-Mail is NOT a SECURE channel ***
    James B. Byrne mailto:ByrneJB@Harte-Lyne.ca
    Harte & Lyne Limited http://www.harte-lyne.ca
    9 Brockley Drive vox: +1 905 561 1241
    Hamilton, Ontario fax: +1 905 561 0757
    Canada L8E 3C3

    * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *

    * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *

    The Yolo County Office of Education has scanned this message for viruses
    and dangerous content

    * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *

    * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *


  5. Re: OT: Which is your favorite?

    Denys wrote:
    > Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 13:55:41 -0600> From: denysb@COMCAST.NET> Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] OT: Which is your favorite?> To: HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU> > Ais Anthropogenic, which means man-made. This is the correct name of the> hoax that Man is responsible for the planet warming and cooling.> > Denys...

    Denys makes an important point. It is not the fact of global warming that is being debated, but whether it is man made. The question of whether or not global warming is happening is not a matter of opinion; it can be empirically determined simply by observing whether the average global temerature is rising or not.

    It is.

    Global warming is happening. The question is whether it is being caused bythe actions of humans. Regarding that question, I am amazed at the utter certainty with which those who would like to believe GW is not anthropogenic insist on their position. It's no coincidence that such absolute certainty seems to go along with a certain political leaning. It seems many accept the mantra of the media pundits who have made a career of insisting that if you call yourself "conservative" you are required to subscribe to a whole litany of beliefs that have nothing to do with the liberal/conservative dichotomy, at least as those terms used to be defined.

    I prefer to think for myself. I believe very strongly in some "conservative" positions, and equally strongly in some "liberal" ones. I prefer to decide each question on its own merits, rather than on the basis of a label assigned by the likes of Rush Limbaugh.

    With respect to the AGW question, I am less certain, because I prefer to take my position on the basis of science rather than politics or wishful thinking. I lean more toward accepting the AGW model than rejecting it for thefollowing reasons: (1) There seems to be little disagreement among those who make their living as climate scientists, as opposed to those who have apolitical axe to grind; (2) We do know that carbon dioxide is a greenhousegas, and that carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere have been increasingfor some time, mostly through human activity; (3) Glacial core samples show a correlation between carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere and global temperatures. I realize that a correlation does not prove a cause/effect relationship, but it at least seems to help support the premise; and (4) even if AGW is not true, it is a good thing to try to find ways to be less dependent on fossil fuels and to put fewer pollutants into the atmosphere.

    My $.02

    John Clogg
    __________________________________________________ _______________
    Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your HotmailŪ-get your "fix".
    http://www.msnmobilefix.com/Default.aspx
    * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
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  6. Re: OT: Which is your favorite?

    Also, could you please fix you settings so that when someone replies to you,
    your email address does not have the _NOSPAM in it. You have it backwards.



    Denys...

    From: John Clogg [mailto:jhclogg@hotmail.com]
    Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 6:55 PM
    To: Denys Beauchemin; hp3000-l@raven.utc.edu
    Subject: RE: [HP3000-L] OT: Which is your favorite?




    Denys wrote:

    > Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 13:55:41 -0600
    > From: denysb@COMCAST.NET
    > Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] OT: Which is your favorite?
    > To: HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU
    >
    > A is Anthropogenic, which means man-made. This is the correct name of the
    > hoax that Man is responsible for the planet warming and cooling.
    >
    > Denys...





    * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
    * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *


  7. Re: OT: Which is your favorite?

    Denys,

    I was not attacking your statements. I was simply looking for the
    source data for your statements, so I can make up my own mind. The web
    pages I found all used graphs to make there point. Some of them where
    anti AGW and echoed your statements almost word for word. Others used
    the same graphs and were pro AGW. In all the pages I could not find a
    web reference to the data from which the graphs were created. I was
    just wondering if you had found a link for the source data for these
    graphs. I could then do my own analysis and draw my own conclusions, and
    not rely on the propaganda from either side of the AGW debate.

    Andy


    Denys Beauchemin wrote:
    > I said "close to one degree Celsius." .75C is pretty close.
    >
    > The point is that it took a hundred years to add a similar amount and we
    > lost it in one year. I hope we do not lose any more.
    >
    > Let's also remember the Kyoto protocol calls for the virtual destruction of
    > economonies to lower the temperature by .01 degree of less over decades.
    >
    > The AGW crowd always talks to us about fractions of degrees bringing on
    > apocalyptic consequences; we just dropped a more significant amount than
    > they ever talked about.
    >
    > Denys...
    >
    >


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  8. Re: OT: Which is your favourite?

    > Just as every glass of beer I down is likely, on the balance of
    > probability, to contain one or more molecules previously passed by
    > Julius Caesar.
    >
    > I suppose to you that would mean Julius Caeser whizzed in my drink? :-)


    If Caeser did it from that distance in time and space, it would have to be a
    Guinness record! Well, any other beer as well...

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