Is the 50g the end of the line for advanced calculators? - Hewlett Packard

This is a discussion on Is the 50g the end of the line for advanced calculators? - Hewlett Packard ; Just as the title states. Is the present the future with little or not changes in technology? I look around at the great devices, iPhone, PDA's, and imagine a time when calculators should be making these kind of jumps that ...

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  1. Is the 50g the end of the line for advanced calculators?

    Just as the title states. Is the present the future with little or
    not changes in technology? I look around at the great devices,
    iPhone, PDA's, and imagine a time when calculators should be making
    these kind of jumps that allow for very advanced operations and
    program support. However, it seems that the customer base is not
    there or the big two companies are just not interested in coming up
    with such a device.

    Any thoughts on the next generation of HP calcualtors (48Gx --> 50g --
    > ??)




  2. Re: Is the 50g the end of the line for advanced calculators?

    aplnub wrote:
    > Just as the title states. Is the present the future with little or
    > not changes in technology? I look around at the great devices,
    > iPhone, PDA's, and imagine a time when calculators should be making
    > these kind of jumps that allow for very advanced operations and
    > program support. However, it seems that the customer base is not


    Here is a big difference. Even a 50G has a battery life of 2+ months.
    My 48G would last an entire semester (or two if I remember) when I was
    in school. My regularly used 32SII has batteries that last much longer.
    Do we all really wasn't more processing power at the cost of having to
    recharge the calculator every other day? For something really advanced,
    you might as well have a JDK, and a much more simple interface, to run
    full blown applications (like high end cellphones).

    Most of the time, I just use the calculator for relatively simple stuff.
    For really complicated things, I write a program. While there are many
    people who have use for a calculator with more modern features (survey?)
    because it acts as a mobile computer, I believe cell phones are on their way
    to having a more open architecture with the ability to load custom software
    for whatever purpose you want. Until then, there are some very small portable
    computers one can buy.

    - Kurt

  3. Re: Is the 50g the end of the line for advanced calculators?

    On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 16:11:07 -0800 (PST), aplnub
    wrote:

    >Just as the title states. Is the present the future with little or
    >not changes in technology? I look around at the great devices,
    >iPhone, PDA's, and imagine a time when calculators should be making
    >these kind of jumps that allow for very advanced operations and
    >program support. However, it seems that the customer base is not
    >there or the big two companies are just not interested in coming up
    >with such a device.
    >
    >Any thoughts on the next generation of HP calcualtors (48Gx --> 50g --
    >> ??)

    >


    Texas Instruments (TI) and Casio.

    A.L.

  4. Re: Is the 50g the end of the line for advanced calculators?

    aplnub wrote:
    > Just as the title states. Is the present the future with little or
    > not changes in technology? I look around at the great devices,
    > iPhone, PDA's, and imagine a time when calculators should be making
    > these kind of jumps that allow for very advanced operations and
    > program support. However, it seems that the customer base is not
    > there or the big two companies are just not interested in coming up
    > with such a device.
    >
    > Any thoughts on the next generation of HP calcualtors (48Gx --> 50g --
    >> ??)

    >
    >


    HP is done. TI still has the education market.

    JB

  5. Re: Is the 50g the end of the line for advanced calculators?

    john baranowsky wrote:
    > aplnub wrote:
    >>
    >> Any thoughts on the next generation of HP calcualtors (48Gx --> 50g --
    >>> ??)

    >>
    >>

    >
    > HP is done. TI still has the education market.
    >
    > JB


    Having used topend HP calculators since the 70's, I think the future
    lies with HP50-style calculators containing processors that can run
    open-source programs available right now (eg Maxima, Lisp, The Calc,
    etc). The HP form factor cannot be beat for hand-held use. Just bind
    the keys to the expressions you need in the language(s) you like.

  6. Re: Is the 50g the end of the line for advanced calculators?

    On Nov 30, 9:11 am, aplnub wrote:
    > Just as the title states. Is the present the future with little or
    > not changes in technology? I look around at the great devices,
    > iPhone, PDA's, and imagine a time when calculators should be making
    > these kind of jumps that allow for very advanced operations and
    > program support. However, it seems that the customer base is not
    > there or the big two companies are just not interested in coming up
    > with such a device.
    >
    > Any thoughts on the next generation of HP calcualtors (48Gx --> 50g --
    >
    > > ??)


    With the facility of SD cards,CAS ,. 880 User RPL commands and SysRPL
    for a start what more can you expect for $200? Mathematica Maybe?

  7. Re: Is the 50g the end of the line for advanced calculators?

    On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 05:15:02 -0600, YANSWBVCG
    wrote:

    >john baranowsky wrote:
    >> aplnub wrote:
    >>>
    >>> Any thoughts on the next generation of HP calcualtors (48Gx --> 50g --
    >>>> ??)
    >>>
    >>>

    >>
    >> HP is done. TI still has the education market.
    >>
    >> JB

    >
    >Having used topend HP calculators since the 70's, I think the future
    >lies with HP50-style calculators


    Calculators is the mistake of digital evolution. Calculators are
    dead, and "future" belongs to computers.

    A.L.

  8. Re: Is the 50g the end of the line for advanced calculators?

    > >Having used topend HP calculators since the 70's, I think the future
    > >lies with HP50-style calculators

    >
    > Calculators is the mistake of digital evolution. Calculators are
    > dead, and "future" belongs to computers.


    I would have no currage to say that "Calculator is the mistake of digital
    evolution" :-)
    Just if you consider Eniac (the world's first electronic *calculator* rather
    than computer)

    On the other hand HP50G can be considered more of a computer, less
    calculator.
    Limited to stay in calculator department, on the edge with PDA
    just enough not to be banned from schools and importand exams.

    As always I belive the future is somwhere in between.
    Calculators being handheld devices have good chances for survival compared
    to
    computers desktop or "laptop" devices.
    I would prefere to use good advanced graphical calculator
    rather than calculator ot math program on a PC/laptop.

    So today's PDAs and calculators will tranform into inexpencive powerfull
    learning tool
    Calculator, textbook, cellphone(communication device), all in one in just a
    bit larger screen format.
    let's say up to 12 or 14"
    Notebooks if you like.

    Laptop (as a term) actually, is a mistake of digital evolution, since those
    are almost never used on the lap
    so the name is almost entirely figurative.
    Laptop (as technology) already is on completely different path from the one
    sugested by its name:
    these are becoming thin, portable substitutes for desktop computers. (not to
    be confused with thin clients)
    Laptops don't work very long without a wall feed (battery can be considered
    as UPS).
    To expensive to risk droping them from the lap or while using on the go.
    It is clear that these are ment to be carried where you go, *but* used when
    you actually get there :-)
    (more-less normal table environment like office, home)
    These will be as large as you can carry :-)


    --
    manjo
    http://fly.srk.fer.hr/~manjo/openfire
    | 49G+ | ROM 2.09 | hw serial:CN40213309 | sw serial:CN40701165 |



  9. Re: Is the 50g the end of the line for advanced calculators?

    > On Nov 30, 9:11 am, aplnub wrote:
    >
    > > Just as the title states. Is the present the future with little or
    > > not changes in technology? I look around at the great devices,
    > > iPhone, PDA's, and imagine a time when calculators should be making
    > > these kind of jumps that allow for very advanced operations and
    > > program support. However, it seems that the customer base is not
    > > there or the big two companies are just not interested in coming up
    > > with such a device.

    >
    > > Any thoughts on the next generation of HP calcualtors (48Gx --> 50g --

    I've been using HP calculators since just after the 35 came out (I
    couldn't afford it or I would have been using it, too). The 65, which
    supported external memory (tiny magnetic cards) allowed the infinite
    expandability in the sense that the number of useful programs you
    could carry around with you was not limited to the internal RAM. The
    41C, with its hackability, was a perfect meld of tool and toy. It's
    been continuous progress (excluding the little two-step of the 49)
    since. I have probably spent 5000 hours writing programs and a lot
    more running them. The key elements are concise language (QWERTY
    keyboard in a pocket device doesn't seem to work well), extensibility/
    programmability, and, as noted by John B, key-binding. What I'd like
    to see would be a bigger screen, a Levenberg-Marquardt root-finder (in
    addition, not instead of, the present one, which is pretty
    bulletproof), ten times faster, and not significantly shorter battery
    life. Problem is, the market is too small. But I'd pay a kilobuck for
    such a device. I was really let down when the Hydrix project
    evaporated. So I think the direction progress needs to take is clear,
    but it would take someone with significant cojones to invest in
    offering such a product.
    JY -- hear me??
    --Irl

  10. Re: Is the 50g the end of the line for advanced calculators?

    On 29 nov, 18:11, aplnub wrote:
    > Just as the title states. Is the present the future with little or
    > not changes in technology? I look around at the great devices,
    > iPhone, PDA's, and imagine a time when calculators should be making
    > these kind of jumps that allow for very advanced operations and
    > program support. However, it seems that the customer base is not
    > there or the big two companies are just not interested in coming up
    > with such a device.
    >
    > Any thoughts on the next generation of HP calcualtors (48Gx --> 50g --
    >
    > > ??)


    I think that until the field work is needed we will need a "portable
    device" to come with us and take data, make analisys, and reports, and
    why not, give us some pleasent relaxing time hearing music, or with
    any video play piece.

    But the MUST important characteristics will be the energy
    "independece" it could have, and the display size: the biggest the
    best in both cases.

    Maybe increase the "main" memory/processor capacity, enough to run
    Linux or Open Solaris, with the RPN/RPL compatibility, and with the
    maximum speed that let you work without the need to go back and plug
    it every other month, its my dream machine (maybe near Qonos). I hate
    to have to plug my cell phone every other day, so 1 month energy
    independence will be the minimum IŽll expect.

    By now HP50 meet my needs very well (I only wish to hear music with
    it). So whats next ? I expect HP can surprise us. They know very
    well our wishes and have the capacity to make them real.

    Daniel

  11. Re: Is the 50g the end of the line for advanced calculators?

    On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 20:35:57 +0100, "manjo"
    wrote:

    >> Calculators is the mistake of digital evolution. Calculators are
    >> dead, and "future" belongs to computers.

    >
    >I would have no currage to say that "Calculator is the mistake of digital
    >evolution" :-)
    >Just if you consider Eniac (the world's first electronic *calculator* rather
    >than computer)
    >


    Wrong words, I shoudl say "calculator is dead end of digital
    evolution".

    >On the other hand HP50G can be considered more of a computer, less
    >calculator.
    >Limited to stay in calculator department, on the edge with PDA
    >just enough not to be banned from schools and importand exams.
    >
    >As always I belive the future is somwhere in between.
    >Calculators being handheld devices have good chances for survival compared
    >to
    >computers desktop or "laptop" devices.
    >I would prefere to use good advanced graphical calculator
    >rather than calculator ot math program on a PC/laptop.


    I cannot understand why somebody would prefer to do calculations
    displaying results on screen a bit larger than post stamp with lousy
    contrast and programming in language that is primitive even when
    compared with GWBASIC or BASICA form 20 years ago.

    The only argument would be: a) price. However, you can purchase
    laptop for about $300-$400 (see Circuit City and Best Buy) b) Small
    size. However, I really don't know why I should do algebraic
    calculations or matrix inversion while riding a subway.

    This what is really useful is replacement of slide rule, i.e.
    calculator that can calculate sin, cos, and similar things. For
    this, TI-30 or HP-10 are good enough. For business guys TVM is
    needed. All above this is victory of technology over common sense.

    Calculators had their time when computers were in huge rooms behind
    huge glass walls, and to enter "computer room" it was necessary to
    wear white coat and white rubber shoes. That time, having "HP
    computer in the pocket" was really the breakthrough. But is not any
    more.

    A.L.

  12. Re: Is the 50g the end of the line for advanced calculators?

    On Nov 29, 7:11 pm, aplnub wrote:
    > Just as the title states. Is the present the future with little or
    > not changes in technology? I look around at the great devices,
    > iPhone, PDA's, and imagine a time when calculators should be making
    > these kind of jumps that allow for very advanced operations and
    > program support. However, it seems that the customer base is not
    > there or the big two companies are just not interested in coming up
    > with such a device.
    >
    > Any thoughts on the next generation of HP calcualtors (48Gx --> 50g --
    >
    >
    >
    > > ??)- Hide quoted text -

    >
    > - Show quoted text -


    I like the form factor and key action of the HP 48GX. Previously I
    have used this calculator for land surveying. I would like to see
    future generation calculators with wireless and e-mail capability.
    They should also be available in weather resistant models. I think
    the built in command set should be expanded to include system RPL-like
    commands. I would like to be able to effortlessly use input forms and
    check fields in my programming. I think calculators should come with
    a DVD for calculator-PC file swapping and PC programming.

  13. Re: Is the 50g the end of the line for advanced calculators?

    A.L wrote:
    >
    > I cannot understand why somebody would prefer to do calculations
    > displaying results on screen a bit larger than post stamp with lousy
    > contrast and programming in language that is primitive even when
    > compared with GWBASIC or BASICA form 20 years ago.


    I like to use the calculator sitting at a desk working with pencil
    and paper. Having to look up to use the computer, and work around
    the keyboard is a distraction. I agree it is silly to program something
    large for the calculator (unless you are using it as a mobile computer),
    but there are many small things I find convenient to code up on it.
    Sometimes the ability to code on the calculator is helpful when debugging
    or testing algorithms that are being implemented on the computer. Also,
    if you work on a cheap project, a modern $160 calculator has much of the
    functionality that you will find in a $800+ commercial software package that
    your project just might be too cheap to buy for you or that just might not
    run on whatever computers you are using. If you work on multiple projects,
    having one consistent set of tools (your calculator) can be helpful too.

    > The only argument would be: a) price. However, you can purchase
    > laptop for about $300-$400 (see Circuit City and Best Buy) b) Small
    > size. However, I really don't know why I should do algebraic
    > calculations or matrix inversion while riding a subway.


    Like I said, the calculator can substitute for $800+ worth of software
    that you don't have access to.

    - Kurt

  14. Re: Is the 50g the end of the line for advanced calculators?


    "~kurt" wrote in message
    news:13kv1347b09295b@corp.supernews.com...
    > aplnub wrote:
    >> Just as the title states. Is the present the future with little or
    >> not changes in technology? I look around at the great devices,
    >> iPhone, PDA's, and imagine a time when calculators should be making
    >> these kind of jumps that allow for very advanced operations and
    >> program support. However, it seems that the customer base is not

    >
    > Here is a big difference. Even a 50G has a battery life of 2+ months.
    > My 48G would last an entire semester (or two if I remember) when I was
    > in school. My regularly used 32SII has batteries that last much longer.


    Hey , my slide rule works just as well as it did 32 two years ago. If you
    look closely at current technology the HP50 is a relic! I am running Derive
    6 on a Fujitsu life book (with the 49 emulator). The point is that battery
    life only trades so far and going after a bigger market would address more
    powerful features.

    > Do we all really wasn't more processing power at the cost of having to
    > recharge the calculator every other day? For something really advanced,
    > you might as well have a JDK, and a much more simple interface, to run
    > full blown applications (like high end cellphones).
    >
    > Most of the time, I just use the calculator for relatively simple stuff.
    > For really complicated things, I write a program. While there are many
    > people who have use for a calculator with more modern features (survey?)
    > because it acts as a mobile computer, I believe cell phones are on their
    > way
    > to having a more open architecture with the ability to load custom
    > software
    > for whatever purpose you want. Until then, there are some very small
    > portable
    > computers one can buy.
    >
    > - Kurt




  15. Re: Is the 50g the end of the line for advanced calculators?

    ME wrote:
    > "~kurt" wrote in message
    > news:13kv1347b09295b@corp.supernews.com...
    >> aplnub wrote:
    >>> Just as the title states. Is the present the future with little or
    >>> not changes in technology? I look around at the great devices,
    >>> iPhone, PDA's, and imagine a time when calculators should be making
    >>> these kind of jumps that allow for very advanced operations and
    >>> program support. However, it seems that the customer base is not

    >> Here is a big difference. Even a 50G has a battery life of 2+ months.
    >> My 48G would last an entire semester (or two if I remember) when I was
    >> in school. My regularly used 32SII has batteries that last much longer.

    >
    > Hey , my slide rule works just as well as it did 32 two years ago. If you
    > look closely at current technology the HP50 is a relic! I am running Derive
    > 6 on a Fujitsu life book (with the 49 emulator). The point is that battery
    > life only trades so far and going after a bigger market would address more
    > powerful features.


    You know, I own derive and was thinking on using it for a few issues that
    demand lots of digits, then I remembered "bc". You can use bc on a PC running
    cygwin for free, or you can use it from linux. For lots of things it's quick
    and convenient. I also use it for floating point calculations in bash.

    Note, it ain't derive, for for many sundry tasks, it'll get the job done.

    Cheers,

    Rich


    >> Do we all really wasn't more processing power at the cost of having to
    >> recharge the calculator every other day? For something really advanced,
    >> you might as well have a JDK, and a much more simple interface, to run
    >> full blown applications (like high end cellphones).
    >>
    >> Most of the time, I just use the calculator for relatively simple stuff.
    >> For really complicated things, I write a program. While there are many
    >> people who have use for a calculator with more modern features (survey?)
    >> because it acts as a mobile computer, I believe cell phones are on their
    >> way
    >> to having a more open architecture with the ability to load custom
    >> software
    >> for whatever purpose you want. Until then, there are some very small
    >> portable
    >> computers one can buy.
    >>
    >> - Kurt

    >
    >


  16. Re: Is the 50g the end of the line for advanced calculators?

    Rich wrote:
    > ME wrote:
    >> "~kurt" wrote in message
    >> news:13kv1347b09295b@corp.supernews.com...
    >>> aplnub wrote:

    >>
    >> Hey , my slide rule works just as well as it did 32 two years ago. If you
    >> look closely at current technology the HP50 is a relic! I am running Derive
    >> 6 on a Fujitsu life book (with the 49 emulator). The point is that battery
    >> life only trades so far and going after a bigger market would address more
    >> powerful features.


    It takes a pc to run Maxima, an open source alternative to Mathematica.
    Maxima recently has been used to demonstrate mathematical errors in the
    theory of General Relativity(GR) that were made in proofs of the
    existence of black holes. Eg, black holes actually are impossible
    according to GR. It now appears that much of cosmology theory is in
    tatters, although this can be demonstrated only by using programs like
    Maxima and Mathematica. I still like my HP48 though.


  17. Re: Is the 50g the end of the line for advanced calculators?

    On Nov 29, 11:33 pm, A.L. wrote:
    > On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 16:11:07 -0800 (PST), aplnub
    > wrote:
    >
    > >Just as the title states. Is the present the future with little or
    > >not changes in technology? I look around at the great devices,
    > >iPhone, PDA's, and imagine a time when calculators should be making
    > >these kind of jumps that allow for very advanced operations and
    > >program support. However, it seems that the customer base is not
    > >there or the big two companies are just not interested in coming up
    > >with such a device.

    >
    > >Any thoughts on the next generation of HP calcualtors (48Gx --> 50g --
    > >> ??)

    >
    > Texas Instruments (TI) and Casio.
    >
    > A.L.


    Depends what you want to use it for. TI dominates the educational
    market in the States whereas Casio takes most of the educational
    market for the rest of the world. HP is just for those who really like
    to tinker with things and customize and program. Each calculator fills
    its niche quite nicely.

    S.C.

  18. Re: Is the 50g the end of the line for advanced calculators?

    On Sat, 01 Dec 2007 22:28:49 -0600:

    > I cannot understand why somebody would prefer to do calculations
    > displaying results on screen a bit larger than post stamp with lousy
    > contrast and programming in language that is primitive even when
    > compared with GWBASIC or BASICA form 20 years ago.


    Remind me, where's the built-in list processing in that old BASIC?
    Matrices? Symbolic math?

    Geez, UserRPL is elegant, simple, and capable,
    the product of minds that far better fathomed user needs,
    although today's market is users who probably will never program anything.

    Or did you mean it's TI which never got beyond BASIC?

    -[ ]-

  19. Re: Is the 50g the end of the line for advanced calculators?

    On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 20:32:28 -0600, "John H Meyers"
    wrote:

    >On Sat, 01 Dec 2007 22:28:49 -0600:
    >
    >> I cannot understand why somebody would prefer to do calculations
    >> displaying results on screen a bit larger than post stamp with lousy
    >> contrast and programming in language that is primitive even when
    >> compared with GWBASIC or BASICA form 20 years ago.

    >
    >Remind me, where's the built-in list processing in that old BASIC?
    >Matrices? Symbolic math?
    >
    >Geez, UserRPL is elegant, simple, and capable,
    >the product of minds that far better fathomed user needs,
    >although today's market is users who probably will never program anything.


    UserRPL is broken FORTH. Hardly "popular", hardly "high level".
    Hardly "usefull".
    >
    >Or did you mean it's TI which never got beyond BASIC?


    This was right decision.

    A.L.

  20. Re: Is the 50g the end of the line for advanced calculators?

    "John H Meyers" wrote in
    newsp.t2shceltnn735j@miu.edu:

    > On Sat, 01 Dec 2007 22:28:49 -0600:
    >
    >> I cannot understand why somebody would prefer to do calculations
    >> displaying results on screen a bit larger than post stamp with lousy
    >> contrast and programming in language that is primitive even when
    >> compared with GWBASIC or BASICA form 20 years ago.

    >
    > Remind me, where's the built-in list processing in that old BASIC?
    > Matrices? Symbolic math?


    To be fair, the original BASIC, for the DecSystem-10, did have matrix
    support -- that was part of the reason for its existence -- Professors
    Kemeny and Kurtz at Dartmouth wanted computers to be accessible to non-
    scientists and non-mathematicians. It also had user-definable functions.
    It was pretty good at math for 1964, and much easier to program in than
    Fortran (of that generation). Most of the built-in BASICs for 1980s
    micros left those parts out.


    --
    Dave Boyd
    "If we hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes will fall
    like a house of cards. Checkmate." -Capt. Zapp Brannigan, D.O.O.P.

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