# New HP 50g Questions - Hewlett Packard

This is a discussion on New HP 50g Questions - Hewlett Packard ; Hi, I hardly bought the HP 50g yesterday which is my first HP calculator, with the TI-89 Titanium being my close companion up to that point. So as a beginner to RPN and HP calculators, I have a few questions ...

# Thread: New HP 50g Questions

1. ## New HP 50g Questions

Hi,

I hardly bought the HP 50g yesterday which is my first HP calculator,
with the TI-89 Titanium being my close companion up to that point. So
as a beginner to RPN and HP calculators, I have a few questions that
hopefully arise from my ignorance and not the fault of the calculator
(which I heard is marvelous at math).

1. Why doesn't the HP integrate (x+1)^4 as 1/5*(x+1)^5 which is the
2. How do I do a fourier series expansion? For example, expand x from
[-pi,pi] to the 7th oder.
3. I am confused as to how to use the series command. How do I expand
ln(x)?
4. The HP does not symbolically compute integral of sin(x)^3/x^3 from
0 to infinity. This is understandable because I don't think my TI can
do it either. However, I cannot get a numerical answer from the HP. I
get an overflow message. The answer is supposed to be 3*pi/8.
5. How do I use the with bar in RPN mode? For example, how would I
compute x+1|x=3? Also, how do I use the with bar with inequalities?
For example, sin(x)|x>0?
6. How do I solve sin(x)=1 (I know how to do that using the solve
command), but how do I evaluate it for various integers? Perhaps this
question links with the above question.
7. How do I use the solve command to solve multiple non-linear
equations. For example, x^2-2x+y=3 and 4x-y=1.
8. I was experimenting with the step-by-step mode for the integral 1/
root(x^2-1), but it made no sense. It just said rational fraction for
most of the integrals or square root, but did not show any
substitution or any techniques. It is not a major problem, but I was
just wondering.
9. Why does 1/(x-1) show a vertical line at asymptote x=1 in the
graph. The 89 omits this so is there a way to omit it from the graph
on the HP? This is not a major issue.
10. Is there a simple way to graph vertical lines such as x=2? I mean
without using any "tricks" such as 9E999(x-2).
11. How do I test equalities? For example, how do I know if 1=2 or
(x^2-1)/(x-1)=x+1 are true statements or false statements?
12. Do I have the latest ROM version out of the box? I believe so
because the 50g is the latest HP calculator and the last ROM was
released in 2006 which is when the HP was released, correct? I have
not yet opened the CD so I don't know if it has an updator or anything
with it that can tell me.

Thanks in advance! I hope to become a skilled HP user like you!

2. ## Re: New HP 50g Questions

Graywolf wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I hardly bought the HP 50g yesterday which is my first HP calculator,
> with the TI-89 Titanium being my close companion up to that point. So
> as a beginner to RPN and HP calculators, I have a few questions that
> hopefully arise from my ignorance and not the fault of the calculator
> (which I heard is marvelous at math).

You could start by getting the Advanced User Manual and ... hum...

3. ## Re: New HP 50g Questions

On Mon, 18 Jun 2007 00:42:23 -0000, Graywolf
wrote:

>Hi,
>
>I hardly bought the HP 50g yesterday which is my first HP calculator,
>with the TI-89 Titanium being my close companion up to that point.

Crazy?...

P.Z

4. ## Re: New HP 50g Questions

On Jun 17, 7:42 pm, Graywolf wrote:
> Hi,
>I have a few questions that
> hopefully arise from my ignorance and not the fault of the calculator
> (which I heard is marvelous at math).

Gene: The other thing you should do is go to HP's website and download
the PDF learning modules. There are over 50 of them for the 50g and
they will address some of these questions. Others will require more
work on your part to come up with answers and the AUR is a good point
(as JYA said). It too is available on HP's website. Good luck!

Zip file containing all 50 modules
http://h20331.www2.hp.com/Hpsub/down...0gPDFfiles.zip

Link to page showing each module:
http://h20331.www2.hp.com/hpsub/cach...0-225-121.html

http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bc/docs/su.../c00554621.pdf

5. ## Re: New HP 50g Questions

On 17 jun, 20:42, Graywolf wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I hardly bought the HP 50g yesterday which is my first HP calculator,
> with the TI-89 Titanium being my close companion up to that point. So
> as a beginner to RPN and HP calculators, I have a few questions that
> hopefully arise from my ignorance and not the fault of the calculator
> (which I heard is marvelous at math).
>
> 1. Why doesn't the HP integrate (x+1)^4 as 1/5*(x+1)^5 which is the

Only a matter of algebraic handling

> 2. How do I do a fourier series expansion? For example, expand x from
> [-pi,pi] to the 7th oder.

> 3. I am confused as to how to use the series command. How do I expand
> ln(x)?

> 4. The HP does not symbolically compute integral of sin(x)^3/x^3 from
> 0 to infinity. This is understandable because I don't think my TI can
> do it either. However, I cannot get a numerical answer from the HP. I
> get an overflow message. The answer is supposed to be 3*pi/8.

The TI uses integration tables. I really don't know how to integrate
this directly in the HP.

> 5. How do I use the with bar in RPN mode? For example, how would I
> compute x+1|x=3? Also, how do I use the with bar with inequalities?
> For example, sin(x)|x>0?

Where (the bar) needs { var replacement }

Example:
2: x+1
1: {x 3}

> 6. How do I solve sin(x)=1 (I know how to do that using the solve
> command), but how do I evaluate it for various integers? Perhaps this
> question links with the above question.

Try with TABVAL

> 7. How do I use the solve command to solve multiple non-linear
> equations. For example, x^2-2x+y=3 and 4x-y=1.

LINSOLVE

> 8. I was experimenting with the step-by-step mode for the integral 1/
> root(x^2-1), but it made no sense. It just said rational fraction for
> most of the integrals or square root, but did not show any
> substitution or any techniques. It is not a major problem, but I was
> just wondering.

uhmmm...

> 9. Why does 1/(x-1) show a vertical line at asymptote x=1 in the
> graph. The 89 omits this so is there a way to omit it from the graph
> on the HP? This is not a major issue.

uhmmm... you can turn off the lines between points

> 10. Is there a simple way to graph vertical lines such as x=2? I mean
> without using any "tricks" such as 9E999(x-2).

infinite?

> 11. How do I test equalities? For example, how do I know if 1=2 or
> (x^2-1)/(x-1)=x+1 are true statements or false statements?

Learn some UserRPL, its very easy do a command to do that with SOLVE,
etc

> 12. Do I have the latest ROM version out of the box? I believe so
> because the 50g is the latest HP calculator and the last ROM was
> released in 2006 which is when the HP was released, correct? I have
> not yet opened the CD so I don't know if it has an updator or anything
> with it that can tell me.

....manual

>
> Thanks in advance! I hope to become a skilled HP user like you!

6. ## Re: New HP 50g Questions

Oh. OK. I will take a look at the advance manual and the modules.

Thanks guys.

7. ## Re: New HP 50g Questions - Some answered!

Graywolf wrote:

> I hardly bought the HP 50g yesterday which is my first HP calculator,

Welcome aboard I have the HP48 (the HP50's older brother), but I'll

> 1. Why doesn't the HP integrate (x+1)^4 as 1/5*(x+1)^5 which is the

1) The HP is giving you the indefinite integral x^5/5+x^4+2x^3+2x^2+x+C.
The books answer is only true if you know that C=1/5.

2) The HP50 probably doesn't reduce the answer to its simplest terms.

> 4. The HP does not symbolically compute integral of sin(x)^3/x^3 from
> 0 to infinity.

Machines in general have a hard time with concepts like infinity.

> This is understandable because I don't think my TI can
> do it either. However, I cannot get a numerical answer from the HP. I
> get an overflow message. The answer is supposed to be 3*pi/8.

Can the TI do this? Mathematica gives for the indefinite integral an
algebraic with six terms, two of which are simpler integrals (I won't
take the time to write it out here). The first four have 8x as the
denominator, so they would be undefined at zero. All in all, a difficult
integral for even a human to solve. See:

http://integrals.wolfram.com/index.jsp

> 9. Why does 1/(x-1) show a vertical line at asymptote x=1 in the
> graph. The 89 omits this so is there a way to omit it from the graph
> on the HP? This is not a major issue.

It's connecting the dots. Try -31 SF to stop this behavior.

> 10. Is there a simple way to graph vertical lines such as x=2? I mean
> without using any "tricks" such as 9E999(x-2).

Not that I know of. Why would you need to do that?

> 11. How do I test equalities? For example, how do I know if 1=2 or
> (x^2-1)/(x-1)=x+1 are true statements or false statements?

It's easy to test /numerical/ equalities. Just enter them on the command
line: '1==2' EVAL (note the double equals sign). Symbolic equalities
are a different matter, the HP will compare'(x^2-1)/(x-1)' to 'x+1' and
come up with FALSE because they aren't same algebraic (even though if
reduced they would be).

8. ## Re: New HP 50g Questions - Some answered!

> 10. Is there a simple way to graph vertical lines such as x=2?
> I mean without using any "tricks" such as 9E999(x-2).

Well, for a "Function" type plot, that's the *only* way,
because of the inherent nature of how a "Function" plot is made --
you call the function to get *one* function value (vertical coordinate)
for each *horizontal* coordinate value; any other points
can be filled in only by interpolation, with flag -31 cleared.

When you draw x=5 yourself on graph paper, you in fact
mentally "cheat" this process by swapping dependent and
independent variable; if you want to do the same on the calculator,
you could plot a function having constant value 2,
then turn the calculator sideways

The way you mention, and other useless ways, can be reviewed at:

"When you have a simple pencil and paper exercise,
don't complicate it with a calculator --
use the pencil and paper"

[r->] [OFF]

9. ## Re: New HP 50g Questions - Some answered!

Thank you so much guys!

I finished looking at the modules and they answered some of my
questions. I have uet to study the advance user manual.

Looks like questions: 1 (sorry I didn't realize obviously that the HP
expanded and integrated and did not assume 1/5 as the constant C), 4
(I found this problem in a book of integration tables and I know that
this is tough for any calculator and possibly human beings), 5 (I know
now, but I think quickly switching to Algebraic mode might be easier
and I have yet to research ASSIGN), 6 (I have yet to try TABVAL), 9 (I
now know, but I don't think it will make much of a difference if I
leave the line on), 10 (I was just curious...) are all answered.

Now I just have to solve the other problems by reading the manual.

10. ## Re: New HP 50g Questions - Some answered!

Graywolf wrote:

> Looks like questions: 1 (sorry I didn't realize obviously that the HP
> expanded and integrated and did not assume 1/5 as the constant C)

in my opinion, you do *NOT* want the calculator to assume what the
constant C could be, as there are an infinity of solutions.

11. ## Re: New HP 50g Questions

On Jun 17, 6:42 pm, Graywolf wrote:
> 4. The HP does not symbolically compute integral of sin(x)^3/x^3 from
> 0 to infinity. This is understandable because I don't think my TI can
> do it either. However, I cannot get a numerical answer from the HP. I
> get an overflow message. The answer is supposed to be 3*pi/8.

Actually I find that my 48 integrates this with no problem. The "S" in
the following is the integration symbol.

Set the calc for 5-6 digits of resolution: 5 SCI

'S(0,100,SIN(X)^3/X^3,X)' ====> 1.17810 (3*PI/8)

Note that as the upper limit gets larger it has less and less effect
on the final answer, so you don't need a very large upper limit for
the calculation.

12. ## Re: New HP 50g Questions

On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 13:38:11 +0200, Damir wrote:

>On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 04:15:49 -0700, rbrt_ryn
>wrote:
>
>>On Jun 17, 6:42 pm, Graywolf wrote:
>>> 4. The HP does not symbolically compute integral of sin(x)^3/x^3 from
>>> 0 to infinity. This is understandable because I don't think my TI can
>>> do it either. However, I cannot get a numerical answer from the HP. I
>>> get an overflow message. The answer is supposed to be 3*pi/8.

>>
>>Actually I find that my 48 integrates this with no problem. The "S" in
>>the following is the integration symbol.
>>
>>Set the calc for 5-6 digits of resolution: 5 SCI
>>
>>'S(0,100,SIN(X)^3/X^3,X)' ====> 1.17810 (3*PI/8)
>>
>>Note that as the upper limit gets larger it has less and less effect
>>on the final answer, so you don't need a very large upper limit for
>>the calculation.
>>

>
>HP50G in Approximate mode and with format number Fix 3:
>'S(0,°°,SIN(X)^3/X^3,X)' => 1.178 in about 20s.
>
>Damir

13. ## Re: New HP 50g Questions

On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 04:15:49 -0700, rbrt_ryn
wrote:

>On Jun 17, 6:42 pm, Graywolf wrote:
>> 4. The HP does not symbolically compute integral of sin(x)^3/x^3 from
>> 0 to infinity. This is understandable because I don't think my TI can
>> do it either. However, I cannot get a numerical answer from the HP. I
>> get an overflow message. The answer is supposed to be 3*pi/8.

>
>Actually I find that my 48 integrates this with no problem. The "S" in
>the following is the integration symbol.
>
>Set the calc for 5-6 digits of resolution: 5 SCI
>
>'S(0,100,SIN(X)^3/X^3,X)' ====> 1.17810 (3*PI/8)
>
>Note that as the upper limit gets larger it has less and less effect
>on the final answer, so you don't need a very large upper limit for
>the calculation.
>

HP50G in Approximate mode and with format number Fix 3:
'S(0,°°,SIN(X)^3/X^3,X)' => 1.178 in about 20s.

Damir

14. ## Re: New HP 50g Questions

OK. I've looked a little bit through the manual. Here are some
questions I posted on the HP board.

So, I bought an HP 50g recently and I have only had experiences with
a TI-89 Titanium, never an HP calculator. So, naturally I have a few
questions:

1. How do I solve a^3+a*b^2=30 and b^3+b*a^2=90? The answer is 3^(1/3)
and 3*3^(1/3). The 89 can solve this easily.

2. How do I solve (n-23)!23!=(n-32)!32!, not graphically, but
numerically for integer values greater than 32? The answer is 55 and
the 89 can solve this using nSolve.

3. How do I solve 2007^(1/a)*2007^(1/b)=2007^(1/9) for a and b with n
or c being constants? That is, how can I get a dependent solution
where a and b will be some function of another variable. The 89 can do
this.

4. How do I symbolically solve log(x_2)/log(2x_4)=log(4x_8)/
log(8x_16)? The answers are 1/16 and 2. The 89 can do this easily.

5. I solve sin(x)=1 on the HP and get answers in terms of n
(integers), but how do I quickly evaluate the asnwer for variuos
values of n?

6. In solving sin(x)=1, how do I restrict the domain to [0,2*pi)?

7. How do I test if equalities or inequalities are true or false? That
is, (x^2-1)/(x-1)=x+1 (true or false?), sin(x)=cos(pi/2-x) (true or
false?), 1>2 (true or false?).

Thank you.

15. ## Re: New HP 50g Questions

Also is there a program that will find a regression line for squares,
cubes, etc. for the HP 50g?

16. ## Re: New HP 50g Questions

On Jun 19, 6:00 pm, Graywolf wrote:
> Also is there a program that will find a regression line for squares,
> cubes, etc. for the HP 50g?

Go to:

www.hpcalc.org

and do a search.

17. ## Re: New HP 50g Questions

I cannot find programs for the 50g...

18. ## Re: New HP 50g Questions

On 20 Giu, 01:05, Graywolf wrote:
> I cannot find programs for the 50g...

Hi Graywolf / Mayur.
Go to hpcalc.org, do the search and you'll get (hopefully) a list of
programs.
Then, on top of the page, just under the HPcalc.org logo, between the
search string box and the [SEARCH] button, there's a row of possible
flags to be checked - just check the brand new "49/50" one and voilą!
You'll filter the search results for the 49/50 series (however
consider that 49 and 50 are the same kind of machine and can run
almost the same programs, except for those SysRPL programs who use
unsupported entry points or other rare exceptions).
Hope this helps.
Best regards.
Giancarlo

19. ## Re: New HP 50g Questions - compatibility issues

On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 01:57:32 -0500:

> 49 and 50 are the same kind of machine and can run
> almost the same programs, except for those SysRPL programs
> which use unsupported entry points or other rare exceptions.

I have the same ROM in 49G, 49G+, and 50G,
so the only difference is in hardware,
at a level not dealt with by any but the most rare program.

The worst "compatibility offenders" are those programs
which write directly on the display screen,
and assume the larger screen size of the 49G+/50G,
which might crash trying to modify screen memory
beyond its actual boundary in the original 49G
or the current 48gii/48gs (having smaller screens);
an old 49G program might also not bother
to use the available extra screen rows
(even Nosy doesn't use them),
but this is unlikely to be harmful.

Neither of the above screen size issues
affects 49G+ vs. 50G, which have the same screen size;
the worst problem I've ever seen in going from 49G+ to 50G
is forgetting that flag -78 now means something in the 50G
(it selects using the Serial port instead of USB).

I suppose that a battery voltage tester might be
one of those rare exceptions; otherwise the number of batteries
also doesn't tend to enter significantly into programming.

[r->] [OFF]