New Samson HP50 serial cable - Hewlett Packard

This is a discussion on New Samson HP50 serial cable - Hewlett Packard ; If the new Samson HP50G serial cable is true RS-232 would I need a null modem cable for two HP50's to talk to each other? If this is true do they make anything like a gender changer in format that ...

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  1. New Samson HP50 serial cable

    If the new Samson HP50G serial cable is true RS-232 would I need a
    null modem cable for two HP50's to talk to each other? If this is
    true do they make anything like a gender changer in format that does
    the same thing as a null modem cable?
    Harold A Climer
    University of Tennessee at Chattanooga
    Dept of Physics,Geology,& Astronomy
    Room 309 Grote Hall
    615 McCallie Ave
    Chattanooga TN 37403
    Harold-Climer@utc.edu

  2. Re: New Samson HP50 serial cable

    On Apr 20, 11:04 am, Harold A Climer wrote:
    > If the new Samson HP50G serial cable is true RS-232 would I need a
    > null modem cable for two HP50's to talk to each other? If this is
    > true do they make anything like a gender changer in format that does
    > the same thing as a null modem cable?
    > Harold A Climer
    > University of Tennessee at Chattanooga
    > Dept of Physics,Geology,& Astronomy
    > Room 309 Grote Hall
    > 615 McCallie Ave
    > Chattanooga TN 37403
    > Harold-Cli...@utc.edu


    Wouldn't the IR port work better for that purpose?


  3. Re: New Samson HP50 serial cable

    On 20 Apr 2007 12:19:45 -0700, jeff wrote:

    >On Apr 20, 11:04 am, Harold A Climer wrote:
    >> If the new Samson HP50G serial cable is true RS-232 would I need a
    >> null modem cable for two HP50's to talk to each other? If this is
    >> true do they make anything like a gender changer in format that does
    >> the same thing as a null modem cable?
    >> Harold A Climer
    >> University of Tennessee at Chattanooga
    >> Dept of Physics,Geology,& Astronomy
    >> Room 309 Grote Hall
    >> 615 McCallie Ave
    >> Chattanooga TN 37403
    >> Harold-Cli...@utc.edu

    >
    >Wouldn't the IR port work better for that purpose?

    Not really. The IR has a range of only a few cm.
    I would eventually like to connect my HP50G to a Vernier LabPro
    interface. Also I am going to try connecting it to my Triplett
    Multimeter that has a RS-232 interface.
    It seem that this method would be better suited for transferring data
    collected in the field to another calculator for analysis.
    Harold A Climer
    University of Tennessee at Chattanooga
    Dept of Physics,Geology,& Astronomy
    Room 309 Grote Hall
    615 McCallie Ave
    Chattanooga TN 37403
    Harold-Climer@utc.edu

  4. Re: New Samson HP50 serial cable

    On Fri, 20 Apr 2007 13:04:48 -0500, Harold A Climer wrote:

    > If the new Samson HP50G serial cable is true RS-232 would I
    > need a null modem cable for two HP50's to talk to each other?


    If you mean two identical, non-configurable calc+cable packages
    head-to-head, thru only a gender changer, that would connect
    RX to RX and TX to TX, so that neither would listen to the other,
    so a "crossover" ("null modem") would be needed between them.

    > If this is true do they make anything like a gender changer
    > in format that does the same thing as a null modem cable?


    So it is said, although you can always find one of each adapter type
    (gender changer + null modem/crossover), which can plug into each other,
    or even make your own from two male plugs and 3-4 wires.

    http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2062210 X-X
    http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2062207 M-M
    http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2062206 F-F
    http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2103805 Male
    http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2102497 Male

    [r->] [OFF]

  5. Re: New Samson HP50 serial cable

    Just what the doctor ordered
    (and cheaper per unit than sticker-shock shack

    ORA Mini Null Modem Adapter DB9 Male / DB9 Male
    http://www.mobileplanet.com/p.aspx?i=121390
    http://www.mobileplanet.com/zoompic....=item&i=121390

    [r->] [OFF]

  6. Re: New Samson HP50 serial cable

    On Fri, 20 Apr 2007 13:04:48 -0500, Harold A Climer wrote:

    > If the new Samson HP50G serial cable is true RS-232 would I need
    > a null modem cable for two HP50's to talk to each other?


    They should also be able to talk to each other using a cable
    without circuitry, just a proper plug at each end,
    and a "crossover" connection between ends -- much like
    the little cable which used to come with each HP49G.

    Has anyone considered (or already produced) such an item?

    [r->] [OFF]

  7. Re: New Samson HP50 serial cable

    And...

    > for two HP50's to talk to each other


    How about "talking" via an SD card?

    It's mighty easy to slip those cards in and out of the slots,
    and for the Filer to transfer the files -- perhaps faster
    than hooking up a cable and performing I/O transfers

    That's how my 49G+/50G talk to each other
    (and to Emu48 on my PC as well

    It was also by far the fastest way to get files from one
    HP48[S/G]X to another, back when using "typewriter" memory cards.

    [r->] [OFF]

  8. Re: New Samson HP50 serial cable

    John H Meyers wrote:
    > On Fri, 20 Apr 2007 13:04:48 -0500, Harold A Climer wrote:
    >
    >
    >>If the new Samson HP50G serial cable is true RS-232 would I need
    >>a null modem cable for two HP50's to talk to each other?

    >
    >
    > They should also be able to talk to each other using a cable
    > without circuitry, just a proper plug at each end,
    > and a "crossover" connection between ends -- much like
    > the little cable which used to come with each HP49G.
    >
    > Has anyone considered (or already produced) such an item?
    >
    > [r->] [OFF]


    The HP40gs comes with a cable that allows communication from calc to
    calc via the mini-serial port because it has no IR port. I suspect you'd
    find that it would work, although I've no idea if the cable is sold
    separately by HP.
    Image here: http://www.hphomeview.com/images/40to40Cable.jpg

  9. Re: New Samson HP50 serial cable

    On Apr 20, 9:47 pm, "John H Meyers" wrote:
    > On Fri, 20 Apr 2007 13:04:48 -0500, Harold A Climer wrote:
    > > If the new Samson HP50G serial cable is true RS-232 would I need
    > > a null modem cable for two HP50's to talk to each other?

    >
    > They should also be able to talk to each other using a cable
    > without circuitry, just a proper plug at each end,
    > and a "crossover" connection between ends -- much like
    > the little cable which used to come with each HP49G.
    >
    > Has anyone considered (or already produced) such an item?
    >
    > [r->] [OFF]


    I'm investigating use of my Samson Cable for connection to my Fluke
    equipment with IR-isolated RS232. It appears that the cable enters
    sleep mode if Tx (pin 3) is not < -3V. It thinks the cable is
    disconnected from the DTE. Since the cable won't drive pin 2 before
    being enabled by pin 3, I doubt that a back-to-back cable
    configuration will produce a working result.

    The cable doesn't drive DTR/RTS, etc., so I have to power those lines
    separately in order for my Fluke equipment to work properly. An
    engineer from Samson (?) has been very patient with my nagging
    questions; I hope to have something working soon.


  10. Re: New Samson HP50 serial cable

    On Sat, 21 Apr 2007 01:16:17 -0500, Colin Croft wrote:

    > The HP40gs comes with a cable that allows communication from calc
    > to calc via the mini-serial port because it has no IR port.
    > I suspect you'd find that it would work, although I've no idea
    > if the cable is sold separately by HP.
    > Image here: http://www.hphomeview.com/images/40to40Cable.jpg


    Is that the exact same connector as for 50G?

    If so, can it also communicate between 50G and 40GS?
    (hopefully the 50G "battery" pin was unused by 40GS)

    Doesn't http://www.educalc.net/1045489.page
    (Easter Eggs for 40GS) include a familiar name?
    [when the site is not down or blocked, that is]

    -[ ]-

  11. Re: New Samson HP50 serial cable

    John H Meyers wrote:

    > On Sat, 21 Apr 2007 01:16:17 -0500, Colin Croft wrote:
    >
    >
    >>The HP40gs comes with a cable that allows communication from calc
    >>to calc via the mini-serial port because it has no IR port.
    >>I suspect you'd find that it would work, although I've no idea
    >>if the cable is sold separately by HP.
    >>Image here: http://www.hphomeview.com/images/40to40Cable.jpg

    >
    >
    > Is that the exact same connector as for 50G?
    >


    I think it is physically the same connector. You may have seen an
    earlier question I put to JYA about whether the Sampson cable would
    allow the 39gs or 40gs serial port to be used for comms in the same way
    that the old 39G's was (pre-USB days). This is of interest to me
    because the old serial program for the 39/40G (HPGComm) is FAR more
    reliable than the newer USB program. He said that he thought it might so
    to me that would indicate physical compatibility if not software. I've
    ordered one from Sampson but on the 4-6 week delivery plan so I won't
    know for a while. I'll post when I find out.

    > If so, can it also communicate between 50G and 40GS?
    > (hopefully the 50G "battery" pin was unused by 40GS)


    I don't use or have a 50G so I've no idea. I would suggest not. Although
    they share a common underlying chip and architechture (sRPL) the
    overlaid operating systems are totally different. I suppose it's
    possible that you might be able to exchange text files but I doubt it.
    This would probably be a question for JYA.

    >
    > Doesn't http://www.educalc.net/1045489.page
    > (Easter Eggs for 40GS) include a familiar name?
    > [when the site is not down or blocked, that is]
    >


    I got an error when I tried that address. For a list of Easter eggs on
    the 39/40G series see http://www.hphomeview.com/faqs_50-59.htm#59

  12. Re: New Samson HP50 serial cable

    The Samson cable won't work to connect two 50gs.
    I could make such a cable, but is the really any demand?

    It steals no power and offers none.
    If it thinks there is nothing connected, it powers down.

    Jim

  13. Re: New Samson HP50 serial cable

    John H Meyers wrote:
    > Has anyone considered (or already produced) such an item?


    I'm pretty sure that they come with all HP40gs as they don't have an IR
    port and need a way to communicate with each other.

    JY

  14. Re: New Samson HP50 serial cable

    hello,

    if having 2 50+ talk together is your aim, just take 2 usb cables, cut them
    and solder them together... faster, cheaper, and will work better...

    cyrille


    "Harold A Climer" wrote in message
    newstvh231ki4m0crr2dseruu0samtm8r2th7@4ax.com...
    > If the new Samson HP50G serial cable is true RS-232 would I need a
    > null modem cable for two HP50's to talk to each other? If this is
    > true do they make anything like a gender changer in format that does
    > the same thing as a null modem cable?
    > Harold A Climer
    > University of Tennessee at Chattanooga
    > Dept of Physics,Geology,& Astronomy
    > Room 309 Grote Hall
    > 615 McCallie Ave
    > Chattanooga TN 37403
    > Harold-Climer@utc.edu




  15. Re: New Samson HP50 serial cable

    cyrille de brebisson wrote:
    > hello,
    >
    > if having 2 50+ talk together is your aim, just take 2 usb cables, cut them
    > and solder them together... faster, cheaper, and will work better...
    >


    you mean USB 4-pins right to make a cross-over serial cable?

  16. Re: New Samson HP50 serial cable


    "Jean-Yves Avenard" wrote in message
    news:462a426a$0$25441$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
    > cyrille de brebisson wrote:
    > > hello,
    > >
    > > if having 2 50+ talk together is your aim, just take 2 usb cables, cut

    them
    > > and solder them together... faster, cheaper, and will work better...
    > >

    >
    > you mean USB 4-pins right to make a cross-over serial cable?


    Yes... it is important to make that clear :-)

    but then, USB cross-over would not work
    so it's gotta be 4-pin serial "USB"

    manjo
    P.S.
    i would love to see HP provide a pair of donlges
    -one at the mini usb end to convert to 4-thoward HP and
    -the other on USB-A end to adapt levels and connections for true RS232 9-pin
    DB connector.

    That would be like the good old times
    -single yet multifunctional cable



  17. Re: New Samson HP50 serial cable

    Harold A Climer wrote:
    > If the new Samson HP50G serial cable is true RS-232 would I need a
    > null modem cable for two HP50's to talk to each other? If this is
    > true do they make anything like a gender changer in format that does
    > the same thing as a null modem cable?


    Presumably you could use a pair of Samson Cables' adapters with a
    M-M null modem (or equivalent components) between them.

    But for communication between a pair of 50gs, why both converting
    from the 3.3V signal to RS-232 and then back to 3.3V again? Surely
    the 50g signal should be compatible with another 50g, and, I
    expect, various other devices.

    Just make yourself a cable with a "USB 4-pin mini-B" connector on
    each end, with the ground pins connected straight through, each
    calculator's transmit pin connected to the other's receive pin,
    and the battery+ pin left unconnected.

    The reason for leaving battery+ disconnected is to avoid a current
    loop when the battery voltages in the two calculators aren't
    exactly the same. I suppose that a possible alternative would be
    to connect the battery+ pins, remove the battery from one
    calculator, and power both calculators from the other, but that
    doesn't appeal to me.

    --
    Regards,
    James


  18. Re: New Samson HP50 serial cable

    On Sat, 21 Apr 2007 16:11:33 -0400, "James M. Prange"
    wrote:

    >Just make yourself a cable with a "USB 4-pin mini-B" connector on
    >each end, with the ground pins connected straight through, each
    >calculator's transmit pin connected to the other's receive pin,
    >and the battery+ pin left unconnected.


    You say that as though it were easy. Good luck trying to just "find"
    a USB flat 4-pin connector that is compatible with the hp50g form
    factor. Then *if* you do find one, you aren't likely to be able to
    make yourself a cable by putting those connectors on each end.

    In the Portland, Or. metropolitan area, I have checked several sources
    and the closest suitable connector to be found was a USB type A to
    flat 4 adaptor in a kit of various adaptors selling for $30 at Fry's.
    If you ask for a "USB 4 pin mini-B" connectorized cable, you will soon
    discover that the form factor won't be compatible with the hp50g.

    I checked electronics stores, camera stores, and the so-called big box
    consumer electronics outlets (Best Buy, Circuit City, et al).

    I *wish* it were as simple as you make it sound. I have a bag full of
    ST3232 chips, all the misc components and Tiwags schematic all set to
    go! Now if I could just lay my hands on those compatible connectors!

    In the meantime, I bought the Samson Cables version, which doesn't
    seem to work at 2400 Baud, yet it does work at 4800 Baud (using Conn4x
    with the PC). I really need 1200 Baud but it's not supported and ....
    oh well.

    -Dot-

  19. Re: New Samson HP50 serial cable

    Dot,

    My tests have indicated at 9600 baud and below conn4x incorrectly times
    out on XMODEM transfers. It is probably machine dependent, so you may
    see 4800.

    I spent a considerable amount of time with a serial analyzer checking
    byte by byte that the calculator was attempting to send the correct
    data, and it does. Further, the serial analyzer notes any incorrectly
    sent characters, and it no time did it see any.

    So I will say that the 50G and the cable DO work correctly at 2400
    baud.

    Jim

    dot wrote:
    > On Sat, 21 Apr 2007 16:11:33 -0400, "James M. Prange"
    > wrote:
    >
    >> Just make yourself a cable with a "USB 4-pin mini-B" connector on
    >> each end, with the ground pins connected straight through, each
    >> calculator's transmit pin connected to the other's receive pin,
    >> and the battery+ pin left unconnected.

    >
    > You say that as though it were easy. Good luck trying to just "find"
    > a USB flat 4-pin connector that is compatible with the hp50g form
    > factor. Then *if* you do find one, you aren't likely to be able to
    > make yourself a cable by putting those connectors on each end.
    >
    > In the Portland, Or. metropolitan area, I have checked several sources
    > and the closest suitable connector to be found was a USB type A to
    > flat 4 adaptor in a kit of various adaptors selling for $30 at Fry's.
    > If you ask for a "USB 4 pin mini-B" connectorized cable, you will soon
    > discover that the form factor won't be compatible with the hp50g.
    >
    > I checked electronics stores, camera stores, and the so-called big box
    > consumer electronics outlets (Best Buy, Circuit City, et al).
    >
    > I *wish* it were as simple as you make it sound. I have a bag full of
    > ST3232 chips, all the misc components and Tiwags schematic all set to
    > go! Now if I could just lay my hands on those compatible connectors!
    >
    > In the meantime, I bought the Samson Cables version, which doesn't
    > seem to work at 2400 Baud, yet it does work at 4800 Baud (using Conn4x
    > with the PC). I really need 1200 Baud but it's not supported and ....
    > oh well.
    >
    > -Dot-


  20. Re: New Samson HP50 serial cable

    So you think it is a Conn4x problem rather than the cable? I suppose
    that is possible. Is your serial analyzer a stand alone protocol
    analyzer device, or a port monitor PC based program?

    -Dot-

    On Sat, 21 Apr 2007 19:41:16 -0400, "Jim D."
    wrote:

    >Dot,
    >
    >My tests have indicated at 9600 baud and below conn4x incorrectly times
    >out on XMODEM transfers. It is probably machine dependent, so you may
    >see 4800.
    >
    >I spent a considerable amount of time with a serial analyzer checking
    >byte by byte that the calculator was attempting to send the correct
    >data, and it does. Further, the serial analyzer notes any incorrectly
    >sent characters, and it no time did it see any.
    >
    >So I will say that the 50G and the cable DO work correctly at 2400
    >baud.
    >
    >Jim
    >
    >dot wrote:
    >> On Sat, 21 Apr 2007 16:11:33 -0400, "James M. Prange"
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >>> Just make yourself a cable with a "USB 4-pin mini-B" connector on
    >>> each end, with the ground pins connected straight through, each
    >>> calculator's transmit pin connected to the other's receive pin,
    >>> and the battery+ pin left unconnected.

    >>
    >> You say that as though it were easy. Good luck trying to just "find"
    >> a USB flat 4-pin connector that is compatible with the hp50g form
    >> factor. Then *if* you do find one, you aren't likely to be able to
    >> make yourself a cable by putting those connectors on each end.
    >>
    >> In the Portland, Or. metropolitan area, I have checked several sources
    >> and the closest suitable connector to be found was a USB type A to
    >> flat 4 adaptor in a kit of various adaptors selling for $30 at Fry's.
    >> If you ask for a "USB 4 pin mini-B" connectorized cable, you will soon
    >> discover that the form factor won't be compatible with the hp50g.
    >>
    >> I checked electronics stores, camera stores, and the so-called big box
    >> consumer electronics outlets (Best Buy, Circuit City, et al).
    >>
    >> I *wish* it were as simple as you make it sound. I have a bag full of
    >> ST3232 chips, all the misc components and Tiwags schematic all set to
    >> go! Now if I could just lay my hands on those compatible connectors!
    >>
    >> In the meantime, I bought the Samson Cables version, which doesn't
    >> seem to work at 2400 Baud, yet it does work at 4800 Baud (using Conn4x
    >> with the PC). I really need 1200 Baud but it's not supported and ....
    >> oh well.
    >>
    >> -Dot-



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