Behold: The 50G Serial Cable - Hewlett Packard

This is a discussion on Behold: The 50G Serial Cable - Hewlett Packard ; I received an email indicating that Samson Cables has produced, and will soon market, a serial cable for the 50G. They're working out patent issues. Stay tuned....

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Thread: Behold: The 50G Serial Cable

  1. Behold: The 50G Serial Cable

    I received an email indicating that Samson Cables has produced, and
    will soon market, a serial cable for the 50G. They're working out
    patent issues. Stay tuned.


  2. Re: Behold: The 50G Serial Cable

    goog49@cox.net wrote:
    > I received an email indicating that Samson Cables has produced, and
    > will soon market, a serial cable for the 50G. They're working out
    > patent issues. Stay tuned.
    >


    I don't see how they could patent something that common in the industry.
    Serial TTL -> RS232 is used everywhere.

    I have a few handmade serial cables for the HP50, there's nothing
    complicated to it

    JY

  3. Re: Behold: The 50G Serial Cable

    > I don't see how they could patent something that common in the industry.
    > Serial TTL -> RS232 is used everywhere.


    Not to mention many that you can almost always get around a patent if
    you really want to. . .

    TW


  4. Re: Behold: The 50G Serial Cable

    wrote in message
    news:1176386744.469347.317580@d57g2000hsg.googlegr oups.com...
    >I received an email indicating that Samson Cables has produced, and
    > will soon market, a serial cable for the 50G. They're working out
    > patent issues. Stay tuned.


    They're advertising them as available now. $44.95

    http://www.samsoncables.com/catalog/...fm?Prod_ID=391

    Tom Lake



  5. Re: Behold: The 50G Serial Cable

    This thread's link:
    http://groups.google.com/group/comp....6d9bd018cb570e

    On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 21:27:10 -0500, Tom Lake wrote:

    > They're advertising them as available now. $44.95
    > http://www.samsoncables.com/catalog/...fm?Prod_ID=391


    Did Samson forget to say anything about M/F and DTE/DCE at the 9-pin end?

    Together with an HP48 (or HP49G) serial cable,
    you have a solution to direct data transfer between HP48/49G and HP50G
    (restricted for HP48 <-> HP50G to UserRPL objects
    and Ascii transfer via Kermit, unrestricted for HP49G <-> HP50G)

    HP48 cable:
    http://www.samsoncables.com/catalog/...195&Sku=SCHP48
    http://www.samsoncables.com/catalog/...0&Sku=48PCIKIT
    https://www.calcpro.com/stock/p477d.jpg
    (connector is known to be F, and cable with calc acts as DCE)

    Cheap HP48 and HP49G cables:
    http://www.codefit.com/HP48Cable.html
    http://groups.google.com/group/comp....1a2ccb553676a5

    [r->] [OFF]

  6. Re: Behold: The 50G Serial Cable

    > They're advertising them as available now. $44.95
    > http://www.samsoncables.com/catalog/...fm?Prod_ID=391


    Did Samson forget to say anything about M/F and DTE/DCE at the 9-pin end?

    Since it says "gold-pin DB9 metal die cast shell", I'd say it's probably a
    male.

    Tom Lake



  7. Re: Behold: The 50G Serial Cable

    On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 21:11:40 -0500:

    > I don't see how they could patent something
    > that common in the industry.
    > Serial TTL -> RS232 is used everywhere.


    Why, using it to connect an HP50G to something
    is a unique and new application of the technology,
    isn't it? Or maybe the cable assembly process?

    After its patent on the actual ingredient Omeprazole
    [drug, trademark Prilosec] expired, owner AstraZeneca
    managed to get it extended quite a while (reaping huge profit)
    by claiming patent on the manufacturing process instead,
    to stall competing OTC equivalents from appearing,
    until a new strategy came forth.

    There's a lot more to this saga, but suffice it to say
    that this was the world's most-prescribed drug,
    attaining more than US$6,000,000,000 sales per year,
    which is sufficient to guarantee that an entire army of lawyers
    is permanently engaged in economic warfare over this turf:

    http://www.orangebookblog.com/2006/1...cies_sue_.html
    http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/nexium_suit.html
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AstraZeneca#Criticism

    Examining the entire drug industry:
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-...tReview&page=2
    http://www.amazon.com/dp/0375508465

    "In 2002 the top ten drug companies made a higher profit
    than the other 490 businesses together on the Fortune 500 list."
    [Peter Rost, former Vice President of Pfizer, #1 drug company]

    "Drug companies routinely rely on publicly funded institutions
    for their basic research; they rig clinical trials
    to make their products look better than they are,
    and they use their legions of lawyers
    to stretch out government-granted exclusive marketing rights for years.
    They also flood the market with copycat drugs
    that cost a lot more than the drugs they mimic but are no more effective.."

    -[ ]-

  8. Re: Behold: The 50G Serial Cable

    John H Meyers wrote:
    > Why, using it to connect an HP50G to something
    > is a unique and new application of the technology,
    > isn't it? Or maybe the cable assembly process?

    doubt it, the HP50g is using industry standard connectors with an
    industry standard electric signals (just not RS232)...

    That someone thought about lodging a patent is ludicrous.


    JY

  9. Re: Behold: The 50G Serial Cable

    Jean-Yves Avenard,

    I would like to use the HP-50G as a serial terminal using this cable.

    If plugged into (for example) a Basic Stamp unit, is there a built-in
    terminal program? (I know Kermit runs on it, but from my very limited
    knowledge, this is "just" a file-transfer program.)

    If not, is there one that I need to download and run on the HP-50G?

    - LW


  10. Re: Behold: The 50G Serial Cable

    Lone Wolfy wrote:
    > Jean-Yves Avenard,
    >
    > I would like to use the HP-50G as a serial terminal using this cable.

    There are none that I know of on the HP50.
    You have basic commands for sending and receiving data, that's about it.

    A while back I wrote a partial implementation of a VT100 terminal for
    the HP48GX. It's a tricky program to do as ou have to re-route interruption.

    JY

  11. Re: Behold: The 50G Serial Cable

    On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 02:46:29 -0500:

    > That someone thought about lodging a patent is ludicrous.


    Around 1970, we were programming so that two-digit years
    00 thru 20 (or whatever limit) were assumed to be 2000-2020.

    All the same, this was granted a patent about 30 years later,
    and the patent-shark then went about suing every sensible
    computer program vendor that "infringed" on this patent!

    I have a new idea! I'm going to encode all computer data
    in "base 4 digits," which is an entirely new representation;
    for example, one old 32-bit word will now be represented
    as sixteen of my digits, and the entire computing field
    will be revolutionized, requiring only half as many
    digits as the obsolete binary system!

    Who would like to invest in my company, which will of course
    be suing every CPU maker who has been hiding "base4" digits
    within their CPUs all along (two per nibble in HP calcs,
    for example), without ever having licensed my patent!

    http://news.com.com/2100-1040_3-232407.html
    http://news.com.com/2100-1091-234813.html

    "aircraft manufacturer McDonnell Douglas received the patent..."

    Yeah, they sure know how to innovate

    It's almost as good a deal as the drug companies have.

    -[ ]-

  12. Re: Behold: The 50G Serial Cable

    On Apr 16, 9:29 am, "John H Meyers" wrote:
    > On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 02:46:29 -0500:
    >
    > > That someone thought about lodging a patent is ludicrous.

    >
    > Around 1970, we were programming so that two-digit years
    > 00 thru 20 (or whatever limit) were assumed to be 2000-2020.
    >
    > All the same, this was granted a patent about 30 years later,
    > and the patent-shark then went about suing every sensible
    > computer program vendor that "infringed" on this patent!
    >
    > I have a new idea! I'm going to encode all computer data
    > in "base 4 digits," which is an entirely new representation;
    > for example, one old 32-bit word will now be represented
    > as sixteen of my digits, and the entire computing field
    > will be revolutionized, requiring only half as many
    > digits as the obsolete binary system!
    >
    > Who would like to invest in my company, which will of course
    > be suing every CPU maker who has been hiding "base4" digits
    > within their CPUs all along (two per nibble in HP calcs,
    > for example), without ever having licensed my patent!
    >
    > http://news.com.com/2100-1040_3-2324...91-234813.html
    >
    > "aircraft manufacturer McDonnell Douglas received the patent..."
    >
    > Yeah, they sure know how to innovate
    >
    > It's almost as good a deal as the drug companies have.
    >
    > -[ ]-


    FYI:

    Can't comment on the patent activity. I'm pretty sure someone could
    cobble something together, using pre-existing level shifter/
    inverters. The problem I ran into is that I'll be using it in the
    field, so I want molded connectors, and not some hack job.

    As far as programming: I'll be using basic commands to get GPS
    information, probably in NMEA 4800 baud format, and parseing it to the
    screen. I'll also fool with a Kenwood UHF/VHF data radio. I might be
    sending stuff to the GPS using Garmin format, but it's packetized.
    This is easy in C/C++, but I don't know how it'll play on the HP.

    All of this will be done with some pretty basic commands. (read,.
    write, buffer length)


  13. Re: Behold: The 50G Serial Cable

    Thank you!
    - LW

    On Apr 16, 8:00 am, Jean-Yves Avenard wrote:
    > Lone Wolfy wrote:
    > > Jean-Yves Avenard,

    >
    > > I would like to use the HP-50G as a serial terminal using this cable.

    >
    > There are none that I know of on the HP50.
    > You have basic commands for sending and receiving data, that's about it.
    >
    > A while back I wrote a partial implementation of a VT100 terminal for
    > the HP48GX. It's a tricky program to do as ou have to re-route interruption.
    >
    > JY




  14. Re: Behold: The 50G Serial Cable

    Jean-Yves Avenard wrote:
    > Lone Wolfy wrote:
    >
    >> Jean-Yves Avenard,
    >>
    >> I would like to use the HP-50G as a serial terminal using this cable.

    >
    > There are none that I know of on the HP50.
    > You have basic commands for sending and receiving data, that's about it.
    >
    > A while back I wrote a partial implementation of a VT100 terminal for
    > the HP48GX. It's a tricky program to do as ou have to re-route
    > interruption.
    >
    > JY


    Would the old HPGComm program that was used with the serial cable on the
    39/40G work using a this serial cable on the 39gs?

  15. Re: Behold: My 50G Serial Cable

    Here are a couple photos of my homemade 50G cable that I put together
    using:

    1) One USB mini-B to USB A male cable.
    2) One USB A female to PS2 adapter (I cut off the PS2 end - leaving
    the internal connections/pins so I could solder onto them).
    3) One DB9 female to RJ11 modular adapter (I cut off the RJ11 end -
    leaving the internal wires so I could solder onto them).
    4) One B&B Electronics 232LPTTL33 TTL Converter.

    http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u...e_assembly.jpg
    http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u...connectors.jpg

    I spliced items 2 & 3 together to make the transition from the USB to
    DB9, which allowed the mini-B USB cable and TTL converter to remain
    unmodified.

    mk



  16. Re: Behold: The 50G Serial Cable

    Colin Croft wrote:
    > Would the old HPGComm program that was used with the serial cable on the
    > 39/40G work using a this serial cable on the 39gs?

    I would guess that yes, it would.

  17. Re: Behold: The 50G Serial Cable


    "Jean-Yves Avenard" wrote in message
    news:462329d6$0$25465$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
    > John H Meyers wrote:
    >> Why, using it to connect an HP50G to something
    >> is a unique and new application of the technology,
    >> isn't it? Or maybe the cable assembly process?

    > doubt it, the HP50g is using industry standard connectors with an
    > industry standard electric signals (just not RS232)...
    >
    > That someone thought about lodging a patent is ludicrous.
    >


    Maybe the patent issue they were working on was making sure *they* would
    not be sued for infringing some ridiculous patent...

    Best Regards

    Steve Sousa



  18. Re: Behold: The 50G Serial Cable

    On Apr 12, 10:05 am, goo...@cox.net wrote:
    > I received an email indicating that Samson Cables has produced, and
    > will soon market, a serial cable for the 50G. They're working out
    > patent issues. Stay tuned.


    IT'S HERE!

    Nice mechanical design. It had a note in the package warning the user
    to disconnect it before replacing the batteries. This should be easy
    enough to remember.

    I got it to talk to the Kenwood TH-D7A(G) data radio and receive the
    stream from a Garmin eTrex GPS receiver. I was using an old terminal
    program that I'd written for the HP-48S "a long time ago". The
    program couldn't keep up with the 4800 baud stream from the GPS
    receiver, but everything else looks like a "go".

    It has a female 9-pin connector. It communicated with the 2 devices
    noted above via a gender changer and a null modem, both of which are
    available for a few dollars at Radio Shack. I haven't tried it, but
    it _should_ communicate with a PC w/o any adapters, and it _should_
    use the program for the HP-48.

    I won't have time to write new programs for it till after finals. The
    parser for the GPS data will have to be pretty "tight" to keep up with
    the stream.

    I'll post whatever I come up with on www.hpcalc.org.



  19. Re: Behold: The 50G Serial Cable

    On Thu, 19 Apr 2007 06:56:16 -0500:

    > I received an email indicating that Samson Cables has produced,
    > and will soon market, a serial cable for the 50G.
    > They're working out patent issues. Stay tuned.


    > IT'S HERE!


    > I got it to talk to the Kenwood TH-D7A(G) data radio and receive the
    > stream from a Garmin eTrex GPS receiver. I was using an old terminal
    > program that I'd written for the HP-48S "a long time ago". The
    > program couldn't keep up with the 4800 baud stream from the GPS
    > receiver, but everything else looks like a "go".


    > It has a female 9-pin connector. It communicated with the 2 devices
    > noted above via a gender changer and a null modem, both of which are
    > available for a few dollars at Radio Shack. I haven't tried it, but
    > it _should_ communicate with a PC w/o any adapters, and it _should_
    > use the program for the HP-48.


    If it needs no null modem or adapter for PC, then it would be
    like all past cables for Calc <-> PC use,
    where Calc+Cable appears as DCE (like a modem) to the PC,
    where PC with a "Terminal" (or Kermit) program takes the DTE role.

    The following would apparently also make the radio
    look exactly the same to a PC, hence would need
    both gender changer and null modem
    to connect with an exactly similar device and cable:
    http://www.gps-home.com/gps-products/KPC.aspx
    http://www.gps-home.com/photos/2569-b.jpg

    Meanwhile, a Garmin GPS cable to PC:
    http://www.gps-home.com/gps-products/EPC.aspx

    And not to be left out, Garmin GPS <-> Kenwood:
    http://www.gps-home.com/gps-products/EK.aspx
    (can this make a spherical triangle with the above?

    What happens at 4800 baud -- how large is a data packet?

    I am listening to an analog radio right now,
    but can't measure the baud rate for this mode

    [r->] [OFF]

  20. Re: Behold: The 50G Serial Cable

    On Apr 19, 8:48 am, "John H Meyers" wrote:
    > On Thu, 19 Apr 2007 06:56:16 -0500:
    >
    > > I received an email indicating that Samson Cables has produced,
    > > and will soon market, a serial cable for the 50G.
    > > They're working out patent issues. Stay tuned.
    > > IT'S HERE!
    > > I got it to talk to the Kenwood TH-D7A(G) data radio and receive the
    > > stream from a Garmin eTrex GPS receiver. I was using an old terminal
    > > program that I'd written for the HP-48S "a long time ago". The
    > > program couldn't keep up with the 4800 baud stream from the GPS
    > > receiver, but everything else looks like a "go".
    > > It has a female 9-pin connector. It communicated with the 2 devices
    > > noted above via a gender changer and a null modem, both of which are
    > > available for a few dollars at Radio Shack. I haven't tried it, but
    > > it _should_ communicate with a PC w/o any adapters, and it _should_
    > > use the program for the HP-48.

    >
    > If it needs no null modem or adapter for PC, then it would be
    > like all past cables for Calc <-> PC use,
    > where Calc+Cable appears as DCE (like a modem) to the PC,
    > where PC with a "Terminal" (or Kermit) program takes the DTE role.
    >
    > The following would apparently also make the radio
    > look exactly the same to a PC, hence would need
    > both gender changer and null modem
    > to connect with an exactly similar device and cable:http://www.gps-home.com/gps-products...tos/2569-b.jpg
    >
    > Meanwhile, a Garmin GPS cable to PC:http://www.gps-home.com/gps-products/EPC.aspx
    >
    > And not to be left out, Garmin GPS <-> Kenwood:http://www.gps-home.com/gps-products/EK.aspx
    > (can this make a spherical triangle with the above?
    >
    > What happens at 4800 baud -- how large is a data packet?
    >
    > I am listening to an analog radio right now,
    > but can't measure the baud rate for this mode
    >
    > [r->] [OFF]


    Google for NMEA GPS format. It's a text stream that firehoses at
    something less than 4800 baud, depending on what specific "sentences"
    it's programmed to cover.

    Anyway - I finally had a chance to connect it to a PC via a serial
    port (actually via a USB-to-serial adapter. DUHHHH!) It works OK up
    to 115200 baud, and uses the standard CONN4X program supplied by HP.

    Bottom line, so far: Passes all function tests with the PC, GPS
    receiver, and Kenwood TH-D7A(G) Data Radio (a really cool piece of ham
    radio gear!). I'll be able to do some programming for it "after
    finals".

    Programming goals:
    (1) use the bigger screen for GPS data and interface. Talking _to_
    the GPS receiver may be rough because it'll be in Garmin mode, not
    NMEA.
    (2a) Set up alarms to auto-start the data radio when a satellite is
    available.
    (2b) Interface for data comms during satellite pass.

    Whatever I come up with will be on www.hpcalc.org.



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