3 question on the HP50G - Hewlett Packard

This is a discussion on 3 question on the HP50G - Hewlett Packard ; I have my new 50G since a few days, and I'm rather pleased... I think it's a great advance since the 48GX I had. I also like its "look'n'feel", the keyboard is OK though I miss some of the 48's ...

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Thread: 3 question on the HP50G

  1. 3 question on the HP50G

    I have my new 50G since a few days, and I'm rather pleased... I think
    it's a great advance since the 48GX I had. I also like its
    "look'n'feel", the keyboard is OK though I miss some of the 48's keys
    (and the labels over the arrow keys!)
    I have some questions that bug me though...

    1) If I have a very long integer (i.e. 100!) is there a way to display
    it "fullscreen", sort of like an "auto-wrap"? Everything I tried only
    shows just one line...
    2) The expression "e^i*pi" only gives -1 if I'm in rad mode. Why is
    that? That kind of math may be above my level, but I thought e and pi
    were pure numbers, which should not depend on angle representation -
    so why should the equation's result change?
    3) When I try to factor a non-factorizable expression (i.e. x^3+x^2+2x
    +5) the calc only displays the message "unable to factor" on the top
    line for a (small) fraction of a second... I had to actually push
    "factor" several times before realizing the calc was actually showing
    a message, and tens of times before being able to read it!
    4) About libs... On the 48 I could use LS-2 to enter the libs menu
    where I found the ports list and commands, while with RS-2 I found the
    softkeys to launch the installed libs. On the 50G everything seems
    "mixed"... With RS-2 I find 3 softkeys to enter the ports 0,1,2, plus
    the softkeys for "some" of the installed libs, not all. If I enter
    port 0,1 or 2 I get the libs present in that port (the number, if you
    push that button the lib is copied in the stack) and "some" other
    installed libs (which are run if pushed). It's never clear what goes
    where, or how to install and (quickly) launch a lib. I found no
    explanations on the manuals. Sometimes an installed lib goes in the
    "Apps" menu... Sometimes it goes to the "main" libs menu... Sometimes
    to a specific port menu... Not really intuitive!

    I thank you in advance for any help!

    Cristian


  2. Re: 3 question on the HP50G

    On Mar 24, 5:31 am, usenet1.20.qu...@spamgourmet.com wrote:

    I too am a new HP 50 owner coming from a 48GX and I have noted exactly
    the same things as you.

    > 2) The expression "e^i*pi" only gives -1 if I'm in rad mode. Why is
    > that? That kind of math may be above my level, but I thought e and pi
    > were pure numbers, which should not depend on angle representation -
    > so why should the equation's result change?


    This one I do know. e^i*pi = -1 is Euler's Identity (pronounced
    "Oiler"). You can read about at Wikipedia here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euler%27s_identity

    The other concerns Christian has I would be very interested in hearing
    solutions for, especially how to make the first line of the stack wrap
    around in the same way MetaKernel on my 48GX did.

    - Ryan


  3. Re: 3 question on the HP50G

    In article <1174771786.889492.284470@e65g2000hsc.googlegroups. com>,
    "ryan.edwards" wrote:

    > On Mar 24, 5:31 am, usenet1.20.qu...@spamgourmet.com wrote:
    >
    > I too am a new HP 50 owner coming from a 48GX and I have noted exactly
    > the same things as you.
    >
    > > 2) The expression "e^i*pi" only gives -1 if I'm in rad mode. Why is
    > > that? That kind of math may be above my level, but I thought e and pi
    > > were pure numbers, which should not depend on angle representation -
    > > so why should the equation's result change?

    >
    > This one I do know. e^i*pi = -1 is Euler's Identity (pronounced
    > "Oiler"). You can read about at Wikipedia here
    > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euler%27s_identity


    e^i*pi is slightly ambiguous as you are using it.

    I suspect you mean e^(i*pi), not (e^i)*pi. But as you have written it,
    HPs parses it as (e^i)*pi.

    On my HP49+, 'e^i*\pi, where \pi represents the pi symbol, evaluates to
    '\pi*EXP(i)' or (1.549740975483,2.64355906408)

    Whereas 'e^(i*\pi)' evaluates to -1.
    >
    > The other concerns Christian has I would be very interested in hearing
    > solutions for, especially how to make the first line of the stack wrap
    > around in the same way MetaKernel on my 48GX did.
    >
    > - Ryan


  4. Page by page viewer for HP49G[+]/50G/48Gii

    On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 07:31:52 -0500, Cristian wrote:

    > If I have a very long integer (i.e. 100!) is there a way
    > to display it "fullscreen", sort of like an "auto-wrap"?
    > Everything I tried only shows just one line...


    The program below displays *anything*
    that could be edited in the command line,
    in a full-screen "page by page" mode,
    also in a "fit to width of screen" mode
    (line-wrapping, just as you requested).

    The display appears in the same font as the current
    stack display, which is adjustable in the MODE DISP form
    (choose a "system" font on the top line,
    or check-mark "Stack:_Small" to select the "minifont"
    instead of the "system" font).

    While displaying, use these keys:

    [+] next page
    [-] previous page[*] back to initial page

    Important notes:

    o Since this program uses lots of SYSEVAL commands,
    any mistake in the program could cause loss of stored data
    or programs, so please first make a memory backup!

    o It is necessary to perform HOME 256 ATTACH
    *before* entering or transfering this program.

    Page viewer for HP49G[+]/50G/48Gii (in UserRPL with SYSEVAL)
    (this is a downloadable Ascii file,
    including comments preceded by "@")

    %%HP: T(3)F(.); @ Ascii transfer header
    \<< 1. FREEZE DEPTH RCLF { } LCD\-> SIZE NIP B\->R
    -73. DUP 1. + FS? { SF 6. 33. }
    { CF #2623Dh SYSEVAL R~SB 22. }
    IFTE UNROT / IP \-> d f h w n \<<
    IFERR #2F034h SYSEVAL
    DUP DUP TYPE 2. \=/ { #25ECEh SYSEVAL } IFT
    1. DO CLLCD 1. n FOR i DUP2 DUP w + SUB 1. OVER
    1. ALOG CHR POS DUP NOT w * + SUB DUP 1. ALOG CHR
    "" SREPL DROP i #262F1h SYSEVAL #25FB3h SYSEVAL
    SIZE + NEXT -55. CF 0. IFERR WAIT THEN END {
    \<< DUP 'h' STO+ \>>
    85. \<< DROP h TAIL DUP 'h' STO
    SIZE { h HEAD } 1. IFTE \>>
    75. \<< DROP 1. { } 'h' STO \>>
    0. { DROP 7. ALOG }
    101. { OFF DROP h SIZE { h HEAD } 1. IFTE } }
    DUP ROT IP POS 1. + GET EVAL
    UNTIL DUP2 SWAP SIZE > END DROP2
    THEN 1. ELSE 0. END
    f STOF #2F031h SYSEVAL #25EF4h SYSEVAL
    { DEPTH d - DROPN ERRN DOERR } IFT
    \>> \>> 'PAGEV' STO @ Bytes: { 695. #ECE6h }

    @ End of downloadable Ascii program file

  5. Re: 3 question on the HP50G

    On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 07:31:52 -0500, Cristian wrote:

    > About libs... On the 48 I could use LS-2 to enter the libs menu
    > where I found the ports list and commands, while with RS-2
    > I found the softkeys to launch the installed libs.


    That was the 48G, that was

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/That_Was_The_Week_That_Was

    > On the 50G everything seems "mixed"...
    > With RS-2 I find 3 softkeys to enter the ports 0,1,2, plus
    > the softkeys for "some" of the installed libs, not all.
    > If I enter port 0,1 or 2 I get the libs present in that port.


    The 49G[+]/50G/48Gii simply combines two of the 48G menus
    (library names menu, followed by port-number menu)
    into one single menu; otherwise it really works quite the same
    as in the Good Old Days.

    BTW, on both series, only "attached" libraries having names
    may be listed by name, while *all* objects in a port,
    each of which can be either named or numbered[libs],
    will appear in the port-number menus.

    Pressing a key in a "port-number" menu evaluates what's stored,
    just as if it were in the VAR menu; pressing a key in a menu
    of library names displays the command menu for that library
    (this was exactly the same in the 48G).

    [r->] [OFF]

  6. Re: 3 question on the HP50G

    More about displaying library command menus:

    If a library is number 1234, then 1234 MENU
    will display the menu of its internal named commands,
    whether or not it has been "attached" to any directory.

    If you've entered a "port-number" menu, however,
    and see label [1234], then that's where the
    library as a whole is stored, and pressing that key
    simply recalls the entire library object
    to the stack, just like any other *data* object
    (a library as a whole is not "executable";
    only its individual internal commands can be executed).

    Low "system" library numbers (e.g. built-in
    "Development" library 256) are not valid arguments
    for the MENU command, because low menu numbers
    are reserved for other built-in menus,
    but you can add 2048 to those library numbers
    to see their command menus; e.g. since 256+2048=2304,
    then 2304 MENU displays the "Development" library commands,
    even if that library hasn't been attached.

    > Sometimes an installed lib goes in the "Apps" menu...
    > Sometimes it goes to the "main" libs menu...


    Libraries can insert themselves into the new (49-series only)
    APPS menu, as does the "Development" library, when attached;
    internal "system" libraries are nameless and don't appear
    in the menu which lists library names -- the 48G[X] also
    had many such nameless internal libraries, but it also
    had no APPS menu, so they remained "silently within,"
    as it were.

    > Sometimes to a specific port menu...


    "Port-number" menus show exactly what's been stored
    into that port number, just as the VAR menu shows
    what you have stored into variables;
    built-in libraries (like "Development" library 256)
    are in ROM, not in a port, and that's why
    you can not find them in "port" menus

    > Not really intuitive!


    Just logical, every step of the way, no?

    Although the reasons weren't familiar to begin with,
    hence appeared mysterious, does it all make sense now?

    By the way, try 2219 MENU on a 48G[X] *or* 49 series
    to see the menu of "invisible" ROM library 171, for example,
    which contains many of the commands first introduced
    in the 48G, which hadn't previously existed in the 48S[X];
    since that library is in ROM, and all of these commands
    are always automatically recognized anyway, there is no need
    to ever display a stand-alone menu for that library.

    There are several more internal "system" libraries in ROM,
    which you can find listed in the "AUR" if interested.

    Hope this has been of interest -- "familiarity breeds content[ment]"

    [r->] [OFF]

  7. Re: 3 question on the HP50G

    Hi Ryan,

    > I suspect you mean e^(i*pi), not (e^i)*pi. But as you have written it,
    > HPs parses it as (e^i)*pi.
    >
    > On my HP49+, 'e^i*\pi, where \pi represents the pi symbol, evaluates to
    > '\pi*EXP(i)' or (1.549740975483,2.64355906408)
    >
    > Whereas 'e^(i*\pi)' evaluates to -1.


    Yes I mean e^(i*pi), and when in Rad mode the calc correctly evals it
    to -1.
    If I switch to Deg though, and enter the very same expression, and
    push "eval", it isn't evaluated. If I ->num it, I get a complex
    number, where the real part is close to -1 and the imaginary part
    close to 0, but I don't get the correct answer (-1).

    Cristian


  8. Re: 3 question on the HP50G

    In article <1174849367.444790.123840@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups. com>,
    usenet1.20.quaxo@spamgourmet.com wrote:

    > Hi Ryan,
    >
    > > I suspect you mean e^(i*pi), not (e^i)*pi. But as you have written it,
    > > HPs parses it as (e^i)*pi.
    > >
    > > On my HP49+, 'e^i*\pi, where \pi represents the pi symbol, evaluates to
    > > '\pi*EXP(i)' or (1.549740975483,2.64355906408)
    > >
    > > Whereas 'e^(i*\pi)' evaluates to -1.

    >
    > Yes I mean e^(i*pi), and when in Rad mode the calc correctly evals it
    > to -1.
    > If I switch to Deg though, and enter the very same expression, and
    > push "eval", it isn't evaluated. If I ->num it, I get a complex
    > number, where the real part is close to -1 and the imaginary part
    > close to 0, but I don't get the correct answer (-1).
    >
    > Cristian


    'e^(ix)', for real x, evaluates as 'cos(x) + i*sin(x)', so that when you
    change the angle mode, you get different evaluations of those trig
    functions.

    One way to avoid that in most instances is to give x the units of
    radians.

    Right sift 6 fir the units menu, NXT twice, then the ANGL softkey.

    Then after entering x press the r softkey, and x will have a unit of
    radians attached.

  9. Re: Page by page viewer for HP49G[+]/50G/48Gii

    John,
    Thank you, that program is great! Is there a way to make it "global" -
    i.e. that it's run regardless of which directory I'm in?
    By the way, what does the HOME 256 ATTACH command do?

    Thanks again
    Cristian


  10. Re: Page by page viewer for HP49G[+]/50G/48Gii

    On Tue, 27 Mar 2007 09:39:59 -0500, wrote:

    > Is there a way to make it "global" -
    > i.e. that it's run regardless of which directory I'm in?


    With a program named 'PAGEV' stored in the HOME directory,
    typing PAGEV will always find it.

    Of course, who wants to type a long name all the time?

    Perhaps rename it shorter, e.g. 'XX'
    (which doesn't even need the Alpha key

    Assigning the program's name 'PAGEV' to a "user key"
    definition is another way to make it always available.

    Or, if you are not yet using any CUSTOM menu
    (to which you could otherwise add it),
    you could create one in HOME:

    { PAGEV } HOME MENU

    The CUSTOM keyboard operation
    now brings up this menu again at any time
    (the menu list itself was stored into a variable named 'CST'
    by the MENU command); you could of course add more things
    to that menu, e.g. other frequently used program names,
    commands, units, constants, etc.

    Although you can find more about menus and "custom" menus
    in the current User Guide, it's not quite polished up
    (ignore the subject entirely in the current AUR

    Variables in a "custom" menu can be accidentally stored into,
    just as easily as in the VAR menu, and subsequent MENU commands
    could also accidentally wipe out your existing "custom" menu, but
    if you keep all your programs in HOME while *never* using HOME
    as your "working directory," this strategy can help protect
    all your programs and other valuables from accidental harm.

    Some more advanced menu stuff (some 49G-specific) was posted in
    http://groups.google.com/group/comp....98502f517ec445
    (sorry it wasn't written better, but I can almost begin to
    understand it again after reading about three times through

    > By the way, what does HOME 256 ATTACH do?


    Doing that before even starting to type or transfer some other program
    ensures that any commands in the built-in (but not normally
    attached) "Development" library, which contains some
    common functions formerly requiring OS-level SysRPL
    (e.g. R~SB) will be properly recognized and compiled,
    which is rather vital for that posted program.

    Some people do things which may keep that library always attached,
    but following the above instruction elevates this to a certainty
    (at the expense of losing the thrill of playing "Russian roulette"

    [r->] [OFF]

  11. Page by page viewer for all HP48/49/50

    Revised since original posting:

    o Includes HP50G/49G[+]/48Gii and HP48[S/G][X/+] versions.

    o Shortened and improved.

    The program below displays any object
    that can normally be displayed in text form,
    using the full screen (both height and width),
    also "folding" any long lines,
    to eliminate any need for horizontal scrolling.

    The text can be "paged up/down" by one screenful
    at a time, rather than one line at a time.

    The display appears in the same font (height and width)
    as the current stack display, which on HP50G/49G[+]/48Gii
    is adjustable in the MODE DISP form:

    Choose a "system" font height on the uppermost line,
    or check-mark "Stack:_Small" to select the "minifont"
    (33 characters per line) instead of the "system" font
    (22 characters per line); the number of lines displayed
    per screen is the screen height divided by the font height.

    While displaying, use these keys:

    [+] next page
    [-] previous page[*] back to initial page

    OFF and CANCEL work as expected.

    Important note:

    o Since this program uses SYSEVAL commands,
    any mistake in the program could cause loss of stored data
    or programs, so please first make a memory backup!

    "Paging" viewer for all HP48/49/50 (in UserRPL with SYSEVAL):

    This is a downloadable Ascii file,
    including comments preceded by "@"

    The complete file, when downloaded and run on any calc,
    will select and install the proper version for any model;
    if you are hand-typing, or calc memory is too full,
    then just enter what applies to your own model.


    %%HP: T(3)F(.); @ Ascii transfer header

    RCLF SIZE 3 > \<< @ Which calc series?

    @ HP50G/49G[+]/48Gii
    \<< 1. FREEZE DEPTH RCLF { } LCD\-> SIZE NIP B\->R
    -73. DUP 1. + FS? { SF 6. 33. }
    { CF #2623Dh SYSEVAL #262F6h SYSEVAL 22. }
    IFTE UNROT / IP \-> d f h w n \<< IFERR DUPDUP
    TYPE 2. \=/ { #25ECEh SYSEVAL } IFT #2F034h SYSEVAL
    1. DO CLLCD 1. n FOR i DUP2 DUP w + SUB 1. OVER
    1. ALOG CHR POS DUP NOT w * + SUB DUP
    i 1. #3F481h SYSEVAL #25EBCh SYSEVAL
    SIZE + NEXT -55. CF 0. IFERR WAIT THEN END {
    \<< DUP 'h' STO+ \>>
    85. \<< DROP h TAIL DUP 'h' STO
    SIZE { h HEAD } 1. IFTE \>>
    75. \<< DROP 1. { } 'h' STO \>>
    0. { DROP 7. ALOG }
    101. { OFF DROP h SIZE { h HEAD } 1. IFTE } }
    DUP ROT IP POS 1. + GET EVAL
    UNTIL DUP2 SWAP SIZE > END DROP2
    THEN 1. ELSE 0. END
    f STOF @ #2F031h SYSEVAL #25EF4h SYSEVAL
    { DEPTH d - DROPN ERRN DOERR } IFT
    \>> \>> @ Bytes: { 653.5 #B00Bh }

    \>> \<< @ Which calc series?

    @ HP48G[X/+]
    \<< 1 FREEZE DEPTH RCLF { } 22 8
    \-> d f h w n \<< IFERR DUP DUP
    TYPE 2 \=/ { #15A0Eh SYSEVAL } IFT #4E2CFh SYSEVAL
    1 DO CLLCD 1 n FOR i DUP2 DUP w + SUB 1 OVER
    1 ALOG CHR POS DUP NOT w * + SUB DUP
    i 1. #194F7h SYSEVAL #3A4CEh SYSEVAL
    SIZE + NEXT 0 WAIT {
    \<< DUP 'h' STO+ \>>
    85 \<< DROP h TAIL DUP 'h' STO
    SIZE { h HEAD } 1 IFTE \>>
    75 \<< DROP 1 { } 'h' STO \>>
    91 { OFF DROP h SIZE { h HEAD } 1 IFTE } }
    DUP ROT IP POS 1 + GET EVAL
    UNTIL DUP2 SWAP SIZE > END DROP2
    THEN 1 ELSE 0 END
    f STOF @ #4E347h SYSEVAL #130ACh SYSEVAL
    { DEPTH d - DROPN ERRN DOERR } IFT
    \>> \>> @ Bytes: { 518.5 #6311h }

    \>> IFTE 'PAGEV' STO @ Which calc series?

    @ HP48S[X] detection and additional progs
    -55 CF
    \<< 1 GET \>> "{HEAD}" STR\-> 1 GET
    IFERR STO THEN DROP2 END
    \<< 2 OVER SIZE SUB \>> "{TAIL}" STR\-> 1 GET
    IFERR STO THEN DROP2 END

    @ End of downloadable Ascii program file

  12. Re: 3 question on the HP50G

    On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 07:31:52 -0500, Cristian wrote:

    > If I have a very long integer (i.e. 100!) is there a way
    > to display it "fullscreen", sort of like an "auto-wrap"?
    > Everything I tried only shows just one line...


    Apparently it can be done more easily than earlier suggested,
    thanks to another thread and posts by Bill Markwick & Tim Wessman:
    http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...hm.ia.mum..edu

    Since the above link doesn't work yet,
    below is another copy of one program,
    which acts much like the built-in TOOL VIEW,
    but "wraps" long words.

    Please be sure to do HOME 256 ATTACH
    before entering or transferring the program;
    also be very careful, and make a memory backup first!

    \<< QUOTE RCLF SWAP -73 SF DUPDUP
    TYPE 2 \=/ { #25ECEh SYSEVAL } IFT
    33 R~SB 7 ALOG R~SB #9B003h FLASHEVAL
    DROP SCROLL SWAP STOF \>> 'VIEW' STO

    [r->] [OFF]

+ Reply to Thread