CRT randomly loses power? - Help

This is a discussion on CRT randomly loses power? - Help ; In article , P.T. Breuer wrote: > I'm not sure why tvs get by with less. Something with motion sensing, > I guess. Interlacing? Longer-lasting phosphors? -- -eben ebQenW1@EtaRmpTabYayU.rIr.OcoP m home.tampabay.rr.com/hactar Two atoms are walking along. Suddenly, one stops. The ...

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Thread: CRT randomly loses power?

  1. Re: CRT randomly loses power?

    In article <2gq3ob.3m8.ln@news.it.uc3m.es>,
    P.T. Breuer wrote:
    > I'm not sure why tvs get by with less. Something with motion sensing,
    > I guess.


    Interlacing? Longer-lasting phosphors?

    --
    -eben ebQenW1@EtaRmpTabYayU.rIr.OcoPm home.tampabay.rr.com/hactar

    Two atoms are walking along. Suddenly, one stops. The other says,
    "What's wrong?" "I've lost an electron." "Are you sure?" "I'm positive!"

  2. Re: CRT randomly loses power?

    ebenONE@tampabay.ARE-ARE.com.unmunge (Hactar) writes:

    >> I'm not sure why tvs get by with less. Something with motion sensing,
    >> I guess.

    >
    > Interlacing? Longer-lasting phosphors?


    Interlacing only doubles the flicker rate from 25 Hz to 50 Hz, which
    still looks terrible on any computer monitor. I think it's the
    phosphor. Possibly, the longer distance the TV is viewed at makes a
    difference, too.

    --
    Måns Rullgård
    mru@kth.se

  3. Re: CRT randomly loses power?

    ptb@oboe.it.uc3m.es (P.T. Breuer) writes:

    ]In comp.os.linux.help Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote:

    ]> "Peter T. Breuer" wrote in message
    ]> news:4373ob.d6s.ln@163.117.139.117...
    ]> > In comp.os.linux.hardware M?ns Rullg?rd wrote:
    ]> > > ptb@oboe.it.uc3m.es (P.T. Breuer) writes:
    ]> >
    ]> > > >> Section "Monitor"
    ]> > > >> Identifier "Monitor0"
    ]> > > >> VendorName "NEC"
    ]> > > >> ModelName "MultiSync 97F"
    ]> > > >> DisplaySize 365.8 274.3
    ]> > > >> HorizSync 31.0 - 96.0
    ]> > > >> VertRefresh 55.0 - 160.0
    ]> > > >
    ]> > > > Way too high V limits. Take 'em down to something sensible, like 80.
    ]> >
    ]> > > How is 160 Hz way too high?

    The monitor supports it. Many of the configuration specs for various
    monitors support v high V rates. What is wrong with leaving it high.
    Maybe you cannot see it, but so what. What harm are you postulating for
    a high refresh rate?

  4. Re: CRT randomly loses power?

    In comp.os.linux.help Bill Unruh wrote:
    > ptb@oboe.it.uc3m.es (P.T. Breuer) writes:


    > ]In comp.os.linux.help Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote:


    > ]> "Peter T. Breuer" wrote in message
    > ]> news:4373ob.d6s.ln@163.117.139.117...
    > ]> > In comp.os.linux.hardware M?ns Rullg?rd wrote:
    > ]> > > ptb@oboe.it.uc3m.es (P.T. Breuer) writes:
    > ]> >
    > ]> > > >> Section "Monitor"
    > ]> > > >> Identifier "Monitor0"
    > ]> > > >> VendorName "NEC"
    > ]> > > >> ModelName "MultiSync 97F"
    > ]> > > >> DisplaySize 365.8 274.3
    > ]> > > >> HorizSync 31.0 - 96.0
    > ]> > > >> VertRefresh 55.0 - 160.0
    > ]> > > >
    > ]> > > > Way too high V limits. Take 'em down to something sensible, like 80.
    > ]> >
    > ]> > > How is 160 Hz way too high?


    > The monitor supports it.


    No it does NOT "support" it. It may *survive* it for a good while, but
    your eyes won't.

    > Many of the configuration specs for various
    > monitors support v high V rates. What is wrong with leaving it high.


    Everything is wrong with it. It has already been explained to you! Go
    read.

    What is it with people? Why do they think a high number means
    "better"? Do you think it is "better" if the monitor has a higher
    pixel pitch too?

    > Maybe you cannot see it, but so what. What harm are you postulating for
    > a high refresh rate?


    Go read the explanations. As if such a thing were not obvious!

    You want to run the slowest pixel clock that will give you a vscan rate
    above your retinal latency, if not faster than the screens .. say 80Hz.

    Peter

  5. Re: CRT randomly loses power?

    At earth time Sun, 02 Nov 2003 03:14:55 -0800, the following transmission
    was received from the entity known as jonesbr:


    > Unfortunately, I already had my minimum HorizSync set to 31, so this
    > isn't the final answer for me. For reference, here is the relevant
    > portion
    > of my XF86Config:
    >
    > Section "Device"
    > Identifier "Videocard0"
    > Driver "nvidia"
    > VendorName "Videocard vendor"
    > BoardName "NVIDIA GeForce 4 (generic)"
    > VideoRam 65536
    > Option "NoLogo" "1"
    > Option "RenderAccel" "1"
    > Option "WindowFlip" "1"
    > Option "Overlay" "1"
    > Option "CIOverlay" "1"
    > Option "UseEdidFreqs" "1"
    > Option "UseClipIDs" "1"
    > EndSection
    >
    > Section "Monitor"
    > Identifier "Monitor0"
    > VendorName "NEC"
    > ModelName "MultiSync 97F"
    > DisplaySize 365.8 274.3
    > HorizSync 31.0 - 96.0
    > VertRefresh 55.0 - 160.0
    > Option "DPMS"
    > EndSection
    >
    > Section "Screen"
    > Identifier "Screen0"
    > Device "Videocard0"
    > Monitor "Monitor0"
    > DefaultDepth 24
    > SubSection "Display"
    > Depth 24
    > Modes "1280x1024" "1280x960" "1152x864" "1024x768"
    > "800x600" "640x480"
    > EndSubSection
    > EndSection
    >
    >
    > A detailed description of my monitor (with the rate information)
    > can be found at:
    >
    > http://www.necmitsubishi.com/product...9&division=NEC
    >


    If it's a plug and play monitor, you can query the capabilities through
    xfree86, using startx -- :1 -verbose 10 >& x.log from one of the virtual
    consoles.

    On my machine, the relevant bit of the log is:

    (II) NV(0): DDC Monitor info: 0x846fe50
    (II) NV(0): Manufacturer: ADI Model: 730 Serial#: 117637987
    (II) NV(0): Year: 1996 Week: 11
    (II) NV(0): EDID Version: 1.0
    (II) NV(0): Analog Display Input, Input Voltage Level: 0.700/0.300 V
    (II) NV(0): Sync: Separate
    (II) NV(0): Max H-Image Size [cm]: horiz.: 26 vert.: 20
    (II) NV(0): Gamma: 2.25
    (II) NV(0): DPMS capabilities: Suspend Off; RGB/Color Display
    (II) NV(0): redX: 0.625 redY: 0.340 greenX: 0.310 greenY: 0.592
    (II) NV(0): blueX: 0.150 blueY: 0.063 whiteX: 0.281 whiteY: 0.311
    (II) NV(0): Supported VESA Video Modes:
    (II) NV(0): 720x400@70Hz
    (II) NV(0): 720x400@88Hz
    (II) NV(0): 640x480@60Hz
    (II) NV(0): 640x480@67Hz
    (II) NV(0): 640x480@72Hz
    (II) NV(0): 640x480@75Hz
    (II) NV(0): 800x600@56Hz
    (II) NV(0): 800x600@60Hz
    (II) NV(0): 800x600@72Hz
    (II) NV(0): 800x600@75Hz
    (II) NV(0): 832x624@75Hz
    (II) NV(0): 1024x768@87Hz (interlaced)
    (II) NV(0): 1024x768@60Hz
    (II) NV(0): 1024x768@70Hz
    (II) NV(0): 1024x768@75Hz
    (II) NV(0): Manufacturer's mask: 0
    (II) NV(0): Supported Future Video Modes:
    (II) NV(0): #0: hsize: 1280 vsize 1024 refresh: 60 vid: 32897
    (II) NV(0): end of DDC Monitor info


    One monitor I saw gave details of hsync, vsync and pixel clock ranges
    here. Not sure if this is going to help, but it's useful to know.

    andy.

    --
    remove 'n-u-l-l' to email me. html mail or attachments will go in the spam
    bin unless notified with [html] or [attachment] in the subject line.

  6. Re: CRT randomly loses power?

    Greetings again, everyone!

    First, let me thank you all for your comments on why my monitor
    might be spontaneously losing power - I appreciate them all!

    A quick update to based on some experimenting that I have done...

    1) Upon further investigation, I get the same behavior (power loss and
    compressed right edge of monitor) under both RH Linux 9 and Windows
    2000. The occurances under Windows did not seem as frequent, but that
    could be luck. So, my conclusion: despite listing high refresh rate specs,
    the monitor doesn't like to be there (at least anymore). When I drop
    the max refresh rate, on Windows and Linux, from 85 Hz to 70 Hz, I no
    longer see the power loss problem. This is based on only a few hours
    of use, but it seems stable.

    2) No matter what changes I make, I can't get rid of the image compression
    on the right edge of the monitor. As several have suggested, I now think
    this might be a hardware problem. My current thought is to simply ignore
    it at the moment, unless someone can comment on what this might do to
    the life of the monitor?

    3) My eyes _do_ notice a difference in refresh rate when going from 60 to
    70 to 85 Hz. At 70 Hz, I avoid the power loss problem, but I would really
    like to push the refresh higher. This will take some more experimentation
    with modelines. I've seen the various online modeline calculators, but does
    anyone know of a simple GUI (GNOME or KDE) that will actually make
    the change on your system and modify your XF86Config?

    Any additional thoughts or comments?

    Thanks again!

    -Brian


    jonesbr@ecn.purdue.edu wrote in message news:...
    > Hello everyone!
    >
    > Over the past several weeks, my monitor has started to blank out
    > at random (and frequent) intervals. Some days, it happens once
    > every hour or so, other days it happens every 30 seconds. The
    > monitor's power LED stays green, but the CRT itself loses power.
    > Note that it doesn't appear to be going into power-save mode, as
    > the LED doesn't turn amber... the CRT tube simply loses power.
    > Turning the monitor off and then on brings it back to life.
    >
    > My (desktop) system:
    > - Redhat Linux 9.0, fully updated via Redhat Network
    > - Stock kernel 2.4.20-20.9 with glibc 2.3.2
    > - Athlon 1800+ running on an ECS Mainboard K7S5A motherboard
    > - NVIDIA GeForce 440 MX video card
    > - NVIDIA accelerated Linux driver v1.0-4496
    > - NEC MultiSync 97F CRT monitor (running at 1280 x 1024)
    >
    > Note that this is a dual boot system, and I experience none of these
    > problems when running Windows 2000. Another possibly related
    > issue is that the right side edge the screen is slightly compressed, as if
    > the CRT tube was aimed wrong or a magnet was nearby. No amount
    > of adjusting the monitor controls relieves the problem. Again, this
    > issue doesn't show up in Windows, was not the case in Linux a month
    > ago, and I can't think of any system changes I made that would cause
    > this. I'd also add that I had a borrowed LCD monitor a few months
    > ago and had no problems with it either under either OS.
    >
    > I'm running out of ideas.... can anyone offer some suggestions?
    >
    > Many thanks!
    >
    > -Brian


  7. Re: CRT randomly loses power?

    In comp.os.linux.hardware jonesbr@ecn.purdue.edu wrote:
    > 3) My eyes _do_ notice a difference in refresh rate when going from 60 to
    > 70 to 85 Hz. At 70 Hz, I avoid the power loss problem, but I would really
    > like to push the refresh higher. This will take some more experimentation


    I don't think you will find any human who can see 80Hz! What you are
    seeing is due to other effects - such as for example blurring of the
    whole picture at higher clock rates (which will mean higher vscan
    rates), or instability at the higher clock rate.

    > with modelines. I've seen the various online modeline calculators, but does


    You don't need a "calculator" for such a simple thing!

    > anyone know of a simple GUI (GNOME or KDE) that will actually make
    > the change on your system and modify your XF86Config?


    No, why?

    Stick to 75 or 80 or 85Hz. It's doubtful that there will be any other
    vscan that you can achieve within the overall limitations of your
    monitor at a pixel resolution that interests you.

    But you should experiment with kvidtune/xvidtune to make the rhs
    problem go away. Once you fix the clock rate you can vary the scan
    parameters (when you stop suppressing the signal, when you
    start suppressing, it when you start the sync pulse, when you stop it,
    when you flyback, etc.) arbitrarily to generate your Modeline.

    You should notice that at slightly lower frequencies you get more
    options.


    Peter

  8. Re: CRT randomly loses power?



    Peter T. Breuer wrote:
    > In comp.os.linux.hardware jonesbr@ecn.purdue.edu wrote:
    >
    >>3) My eyes _do_ notice a difference in refresh rate when going from 60 to
    >>70 to 85 Hz. At 70 Hz, I avoid the power loss problem, but I would really
    >>like to push the refresh higher. This will take some more experimentation

    >
    >
    > I don't think you will find any human who can see 80Hz! What you are
    > seeing is due to other effects - such as for example blurring of the
    > whole picture at higher clock rates (which will mean higher vscan
    > rates), or instability at the higher clock rate.
    >


    I am rather sure that human can't see 80Hz but a game server,
    like Halflife and stuff like that, will feed a higher update
    rate to clients using high refresh rates giving a tiny edge
    compared to a user with a slower monitor. The new world
    champion team from Sweden use 160Hz for that reason, at least
    according to the team captain.

    /Per


  9. Re: CRT randomly loses power?

    Per Andersson writes:

    > I am rather sure that human can't see 80Hz but a game server,
    > like Halflife and stuff like that, will feed a higher update
    > rate to clients using high refresh rates giving a tiny edge
    > compared to a user with a slower monitor. The new world
    > champion team from Sweden use 160Hz for that reason, at least
    > according to the team captain.


    Gamers are the ones I trust the least when it comes to things like
    this.

    --
    Måns Rullgård
    mru@kth.se

  10. Re: CRT randomly loses power?

    On 2 Nov 2003 20:57:05 -0800, jonesbr@ecn.purdue.edu wrote:
    | Greetings again, everyone!
    |
    | 3) My eyes _do_ notice a difference in refresh rate when going from 60 to
    | 70 to 85 Hz. At 70 Hz, I avoid the power loss problem, but I would really
    | like to push the refresh higher. This will take some more experimentation
    | with modelines. I've seen the various online modeline calculators, but does
    | anyone know of a simple GUI (GNOME or KDE) that will actually make
    | the change on your system and modify your XF86Config?
    |
    | Any additional thoughts or comments?


    Recent KDE versions can do this through the Control Center. It asks for the root
    password if you are not root already.

    It's under "peripherals" then "X display"


    --
    Reverend Paul Colquhoun, ULC. http://andor.dropbear.id.au/~paulcol
    Asking for technical help in newsgroups? Read this first:
    http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#intro

  11. Re: CRT randomly loses power?

    In comp.os.linux.misc Peter T. Breuer wrote:

    :> How is 160 Hz way too high?

    : Because it's about twice normal. You can't even see flicker over about
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    : 60Hz. By the time you get to 70Hz you've left behind even beat
    ^^^^^^^
    : frequencies with lighting (50Hz here in europe, 60Hz in the US). VESA
    : norms are about 72-75Hz. You can't possibly have any need for any more
    : than 80Hz.

    Speak for yourself- With a white background the flicker is just as
    noticeable at 70 Hz as at 60 Hz. Starts getting better at 80 Hz-
    mostly gone but still annoying at 90. For obvious reasons I avoid
    white backgrounds like the plague they are.

    But I'd agree- 160Hz might sound nifty but is way beyond any conceivable
    real need. Kind of like buying that "Monster" cable with the massive
    gold-plated gauge to put 20kHz through...

    Stan


    --
    Stan Bischof ("stan" at the below domain)
    www.worldbadminton.com

  12. Re: CRT randomly loses power?

    On Sun, 02 Nov 2003 15:57:58 +0100, mru@kth.se (Måns Rullgård) wrote:

    >ptb@oboe.it.uc3m.es (P.T. Breuer) writes:
    >
    >>> Section "Monitor"
    >>> Identifier "Monitor0"
    >>> VendorName "NEC"
    >>> ModelName "MultiSync 97F"
    >>> DisplaySize 365.8 274.3
    >>> HorizSync 31.0 - 96.0
    >>> VertRefresh 55.0 - 160.0

    >>
    >> Way too high V limits. Take 'em down to something sensible, like 80.

    >
    >How is 160 Hz way too high? It's perfectly normal for a monitor to
    >support such frequencies. In fact, I have some that do. Only they
    >don't support it at high resolutions, since the hsync frequency sets
    >the limit there.


    160 may be too high for the video card. He might be misinterpreting
    the problem as "monitor", but it may be "video card". I had a setup,
    where the monitor would suddenly just lock up, and it turned out to be
    my video card overheating at the higher vertical rates, I slowed it down
    and the problem went away.




    --
    Our body's 20 milligrams of beta radioactive Potassium 40
    emit about 340 million neutrinos per day, which go at well-nigh
    lightspeed to the ends of the universe!..even thru the earth.

  13. Re: CRT randomly loses power?

    On Mon, 03 Nov 2003 15:29:24 +0000, nobod wrote:

    > Speak for yourself- With a white background the flicker is just as
    > noticeable at 70 Hz as at 60 Hz. Starts getting better at 80 Hz-
    > mostly gone but still annoying at 90. For obvious reasons I avoid
    > white backgrounds like the plague they are.


    YMMV. I have somewhere between 50 and 75 Hz and don't see any flicker
    at all, and I use white backgrounds for mail and news. This is on a
    15-inch screen at 1024 x 768; maybe it gets worse at higher sizes and/or
    resolutions?


  14. Re: CRT randomly loses power?


    "P.T. Breuer" wrote in message
    news:2gq3ob.3m8.ln@news.it.uc3m.es...
    > In comp.os.linux.help Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote:
    >
    > > "Peter T. Breuer" wrote in message
    > > news:4373ob.d6s.ln@163.117.139.117...
    > > > In comp.os.linux.hardware M?ns Rullg?rd wrote:
    > > > > ptb@oboe.it.uc3m.es (P.T. Breuer) writes:
    > > >
    > > > > >> Section "Monitor"
    > > > > >> Identifier "Monitor0"
    > > > > >> VendorName "NEC"
    > > > > >> ModelName "MultiSync 97F"
    > > > > >> DisplaySize 365.8 274.3
    > > > > >> HorizSync 31.0 - 96.0
    > > > > >> VertRefresh 55.0 - 160.0
    > > > > >
    > > > > > Way too high V limits. Take 'em down to something sensible, like

    80.
    > > >
    > > > > How is 160 Hz way too high?
    > > >
    > > > Because it's about twice normal. You can't even see flicker over

    about
    > > > 60Hz. By the time you get to 70Hz you've left behind even beat
    > > > frequencies with lighting (50Hz here in europe, 60Hz in the US). VESA
    > > > norms are about 72-75Hz. You can't possibly have any need for any more
    > > > than 80Hz.



    > > I'd suggest actually taking some courses in neuro-physiology to

    understand
    > > why the 60-cycle thing exists, and why televisions and movie films get

    by
    > > with so much less.

    >
    > What is it with you and 60Hz? Even *I* can see flicker at 60Hz - not
    > that it worries me. Over 60Hz I certainly can't distinguish it from
    > general picture instability, and I have used a lot of monitors over a
    > lot of years. At 75Hz I believe myself to be completely happy scanwise,
    > but a bad video card will cause wobble that you will confuse for refresh
    > awareness at whatever frequency you run at, and every video card becomes
    > bad at higher frequencies. So I have learned always to favour a lower
    > pixel clock over a few Hz higher vscan. That's the sum of it.


    Because I actually read what people write. Notice your quote above, "You
    can't even see flicker over about 60 Hz", with the continuing implication on
    your part that even higher rates are not very useful, and an absolute
    maximum useful number of 80 Hz. It's founded on a piece of bad logic, the
    idea that you can't see flicker at 60 Hz.

    The "leaving behind beat frequencies with lighting" silliness I leave as an
    exercise for the reader, noting that beat frequencies are the *difference*
    between two different frequencies.



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