Clone IDE drive to new Larger SATA drive - Help

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Thread: Clone IDE drive to new Larger SATA drive

  1. Clone IDE drive to new Larger SATA drive

    I need to clone older IDE drive to new SATA drive with a dual booting O/S
    systems:

    Windows XP & Mepis 7 64-bit Linux... Using grub (Will this need to be
    edited to find Windows and the Linux distro?)

    I understand I can boot a live CD and then use the dd command to clone
    the 80 gig IDE drive attached as a sdc1 to the Larger 320 gig SATA drive
    sda0... If I set bios to use Sata hard drive only, the slave position on
    the CD drive cable will still be available...

    I do not want to image, I only want to clone the existing 80 gig to to
    the new SATA drive. Will I need to prepare the new SATA drive as a boot
    drive, with the partitions or is the dd command the entire solution and
    will do everything?

    The 80 gig IDE drive is installed in a motherboard that provides support
    for both IDE and SATA - ECS ASterope3/RC410

    I am not certain about windows, will I need to reactivate with the hard
    drive change, will that be a problem? Or, a phone call to reactivate
    after a booting with the SATA drive...

    JR

  2. Re: Clone IDE drive to new Larger SATA drive

    JR the Postman wrote:
    > I need to clone older IDE drive to new SATA drive with a dual booting O/S
    > systems:
    >
    > Windows XP & Mepis 7 64-bit Linux... Using grub (Will this need to be
    > edited to find Windows and the Linux distro?)
    >
    > I understand I can boot a live CD and then use the dd command to clone
    > the 80 gig IDE drive attached as a sdc1 to the Larger 320 gig SATA drive
    > sda0... If I set bios to use Sata hard drive only, the slave position on
    > the CD drive cable will still be available...
    >
    > I do not want to image, I only want to clone the existing 80 gig to to
    > the new SATA drive. Will I need to prepare the new SATA drive as a boot
    > drive, with the partitions or is the dd command the entire solution and
    > will do everything?
    >
    > The 80 gig IDE drive is installed in a motherboard that provides support
    > for both IDE and SATA - ECS ASterope3/RC410
    >
    > I am not certain about windows, will I need to reactivate with the hard
    > drive change, will that be a problem? Or, a phone call to reactivate
    > after a booting with the SATA drive...
    >
    > JR


    I hint that you will use high-level copying. Load from a livecd. Create
    as much, as many the amount of the partitions at the new hdd and mount
    them and the partitions of the old hdd.

    After these operations new hdd will contain workable system. Then, using
    the program chroot, you will fix up a loader. I don't about the grub,
    but I always so make. My loader is the lilo.
    Please, It will note, that new root partition must contain the folders
    /bin, the /usr and the /etc. Other partitions would mount after.

    exmaple:
    $chroot /tmp
    $vi /etc/lilo # edit the boot table
    $lilo # apply the changes
    $exit
    $reboot

    Before the chroot umount those partitions which you will be to mount in
    the new system, just in case.

    Daneel

  3. Re: Clone IDE drive to new Larger SATA drive

    On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 14:31:53 +0400, Daneel Yaitskov wrote:

    > JR the Postman wrote:
    >> I need to clone older IDE drive to new SATA drive with a dual booting
    >> O/S systems:
    >>
    >> Windows XP & Mepis 7 64-bit Linux... Using grub (Will this need to be
    >> edited to find Windows and the Linux distro?)
    >>
    >> I understand I can boot a live CD and then use the dd command to clone
    >> the 80 gig IDE drive attached as a sdc1 to the Larger 320 gig SATA
    >> drive sda0... If I set bios to use Sata hard drive only, the slave
    >> position on the CD drive cable will still be available...
    >>
    >> I do not want to image, I only want to clone the existing 80 gig to to
    >> the new SATA drive. Will I need to prepare the new SATA drive as a
    >> boot drive, with the partitions or is the dd command the entire
    >> solution and will do everything?
    >>
    >> The 80 gig IDE drive is installed in a motherboard that provides
    >> support for both IDE and SATA - ECS ASterope3/RC410
    >>
    >> I am not certain about windows, will I need to reactivate with the hard
    >> drive change, will that be a problem? Or, a phone call to reactivate
    >> after a booting with the SATA drive...
    >>
    >> JR

    >
    > I hint that you will use high-level copying. Load from a livecd. Create
    > as much, as many the amount of the partitions at the new hdd and mount
    > them and the partitions of the old hdd.
    >
    > After these operations new hdd will contain workable system. Then, using
    > the program chroot, you will fix up a loader. I don't about the grub,
    > but I always so make. My loader is the lilo. Please, It will note, that
    > new root partition must contain the folders /bin, the /usr and the /etc.
    > Other partitions would mount after.
    >
    > exmaple:
    > $chroot /tmp
    > $vi /etc/lilo # edit the boot table
    > $lilo # apply the changes
    > $exit
    > $reboot
    >
    > Before the chroot umount those partitions which you will be to mount in
    > the new system, just in case.
    >
    > Daneel


    * * *
    Daneel.

    This motherboard is a problem, that is new information. My experience
    with this motherboards, is finding information on this motherboard is
    like hating to visit the dentist, and suddenly being put into the
    position of pulling my own Teeth...

    The user complains about a slow USB, and I also can not locate a USB
    driver from HP, or ECS... Can only presume it is part of the chip set
    bundle...

    I was thinking about using the powerful DD command from a live CD, after
    preparing the drive as a boot drive with the manufactures set up
    utilities... Maybe that setup preparation is a waste of time?

    dd if=/dev/sdc1 of=/dev/sda0

    And then removing the IDE drive, taking the ordinary step of tossing some
    salt over my shoulder and pressing the on, button.

    It is only a 80 gig drive with a working dual boot set-up... This is not
    a critical server, or a cad driven Bridgeport milling machine or water
    jet...

    I was going to set up an experiment to see if I can accomplish this, but
    I do not have a similar ECS motherboard with the SATA & IDE Hard drive
    connection. I do have a ECS Geforce6100 to perform the copy test but
    since I do not have a method to install windows via IDE on that
    motherboard can not check its like or dislike when being upgraded to a
    SATA Drive...

    I appreciate the valuable input, but wonder why you did not mentioned
    the dd command? I would presume somewhere there is a live CD Distro
    about with a GUI for the express purpose of scanning all drives, and
    performing a copy or back-up from one drive to another...

    This would be a simple system for most small office to perform a monthly
    backup or recovery of their main computer to a USB drive for off premise
    storage...

    A good Kiss system a business owner that would have confidence in
    using... Windows and its activation would be the only stumbling block,
    if they lost the computer to dishonist employee, fire, or theft...

    But with a linux operating system there would not be the same hardware
    problems and no activation problem...

    QuickBooks and Peachtree running with wine 1.1, and more small offices
    would migrate to Linux, because they will not use Vista...

    JR

  4. Re: Clone IDE drive to new Larger SATA drive


    On Wed, 16 Jul 2008 11:54:55 -0400, JR the Postman
    wrote:

    > On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 14:31:53 +0400, Daneel Yaitskov wrote:
    >
    >> JR the Postman wrote:
    >>> I need to clone older IDE drive to new SATA drive with a dual booting
    >>> O/S systems:
    >>>
    >>> Windows XP & Mepis 7 64-bit Linux... Using grub (Will this need to be
    >>> edited to find Windows and the Linux distro?)
    >>>
    >>> I understand I can boot a live CD and then use the dd command to clone
    >>> the 80 gig IDE drive attached as a sdc1 to the Larger 320 gig SATA
    >>> drive sda0...


    An IDE drive would be named as one version of /dev/hd[a-z]
    in Linux. The partitions add a single number to the end of
    that name 1-4 being the four primary partitions and the others
    being the extended partitions. Grub uses a different naming
    convention based on BIOS, btw. In Linux, the SCSI disks are
    named with /dev/sd[a-p], and their partitions append a single
    number to the end of that name.

    For safety it is a good idea to back-up the first sectors of the
    old hard-drive:

    dd if=/dev/hda of=/tmp/hda-63sects bs=512 count=63

    But if GRUB is installed somewhere other than the MBR then back
    up the first sectors of that (or every) partition:

    dd if=/dev/hda1 of=/tmp/hda1-63sects bs=512 count=63

    dd can clone, but it WILL CLONE, that means copy everything!
    You probably don't actually want the partition table from an
    80 gig drive on a 320 gig drive, do you? I guess you can, if
    you then re-partition the 320 gig drive after dd finishes, but
    that's a bit odd.

    So, if you did clone from the 80 to the 320 gig drive with dd:

    dd if=/dev/hda of=/dev/sda

    Which begins by copying the MBR and partition table, then
    the rest of (normally) GRUB, the the first primary partition,
    and the rest of the partitions. GRUB would look for the same
    menu.lst file, on the same partition as was used on the 80 gig,
    therefore you'd either have to edit menu.lst or put the new
    320 gig in the same place as the 80 gig was, if one is IDE
    and the other is SCSI, that won't be physically possible,
    so you need to edit menu.lst anyway.

    Or instead of all that, first size a (some) new partition(s)
    on the 320 gig to fit the data from the 80 gig, and format
    appropriately. Then copy MOST of the drive (without the MBR
    nor the partition table, nor GRUB from its normal installation
    position) then copy one partition at a time:

    dd if=/dev/hda1 of=/dev/sda1 (This avoids the first 63 sectors
    <512 byte> of each drive)
    or simply:
    cp -a /mnt/old80gig-partition1 /mnt/new320gig-partition1

    Then install grub. dd can also skip (and seek) over those first
    sectors, use bs=512 for convenience.

    Most live CDs (Knoppix, Puppy, Gparted CD,
    etc.) will be able to mount IDE and SCSI disks, copy with dd
    or cp, and can mount most Windows partitions, and probably
    have grub available to install on te new drive... BUT I am not
    certain that the kernel is bullet-proof at reading an NTFS or
    not, you'll have to check that with the forums/release notes of
    the latest mount command and latest linux kernels. For example:

    "First, there is the Linux kernel driver: It is fast and reliable
    when reading files, but it has very limited write support. Almost
    all Linux distributions (except RedHat/Fedora) already include
    the kernel driver. Second, there is the ntfsmount: It is a
    user-space driver comparable to the kernel driver concerning
    reliability, but includes full write support since version 2.0.0.
    Third there are our ntfsprogs, which are a collection of tools
    for performing various operations on NTFS volumes like creating,
    resizing, cloning and so on."

    (Quoted from http://www.linux-ntfs.org )

    GRUB v.95 names drives with e.g.: (fd0) for the first floppy,
    (cd0) for the first CD drive only if it is booted from a CD,
    (hd0) for the first IDE drive, and (hd0,1) for the first partition.
    I don't know how grub names SCSI disks.

    For the details of dd or cp:
    info coreutils dd
    info coreutils cp

    And if you really want to hack into those first 63 sectors, one
    of the most DANGEROUS thing that you can DO with your hard-drive,
    then this site does a good job examining what MS does with them:

    http://mirror.href.com/thestarman


    >
    > A good Kiss system a business owner that would have confidence in
    > using... Windows and its activation would be the only stumbling block,
    > if they lost the computer to dishonist employee, fire, or theft...
    >
    > But with a linux operating system there would not be the same hardware
    > problems and no activation problem...
    >


    I guess if you can't fine a live linux CD to do cloning
    automatically, I guess that is because the commands to do it
    are so readilly available that no-one bothered with any script
    or probram to do it automatically?

    The "activation problem" is a Windows issue, probably a
    licensing issue, and is off-topic. When one purchases MS
    Windows products, they support MS licensing policies.

    -- steve s.

  5. Re: Clone IDE drive to new Larger SATA drive

    On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 18:27:22 -0400, S S wrote:

    > On Wed, 16 Jul 2008 11:54:55 -0400, JR the Postman
    > wrote:
    >
    >> On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 14:31:53 +0400, Daneel Yaitskov wrote:
    >>
    >>> JR the Postman wrote:
    >>>> I need to clone older IDE drive to new SATA drive with a dual booting
    >>>> O/S systems:
    >>>>
    >>>> Windows XP & Mepis 7 64-bit Linux... Using grub (Will this need to be
    >>>> edited to find Windows and the Linux distro?)
    >>>>
    >>>> I understand I can boot a live CD and then use the dd command to
    >>>> clone the 80 gig IDE drive attached as a sdc1 to the Larger 320 gig
    >>>> SATA drive sda0...

    >
    > An IDE drive would be named as one version of /dev/hd[a-z] in Linux.
    > The partitions add a single number to the end of that name 1-4 being the
    > four primary partitions and the others being the extended partitions.
    > Grub uses a different naming convention based on BIOS, btw. In Linux,
    > the SCSI disks are named with /dev/sd[a-p], and their partitions append
    > a single number to the end of that name.
    >
    > For safety it is a good idea to back-up the first sectors of the old
    > hard-drive:
    >
    > dd if=/dev/hda of=/tmp/hda-63sects bs=512 count=63
    >
    > But if GRUB is installed somewhere other than the MBR then back up the
    > first sectors of that (or every) partition:
    >
    > dd if=/dev/hda1 of=/tmp/hda1-63sects bs=512 count=63
    >
    > dd can clone, but it WILL CLONE, that means copy everything! You
    > probably don't actually want the partition table from an 80 gig drive on
    > a 320 gig drive, do you? I guess you can, if you then re-partition the
    > 320 gig drive after dd finishes, but that's a bit odd.
    >
    > So, if you did clone from the 80 to the 320 gig drive with dd:
    >
    > dd if=/dev/hda of=/dev/sda
    >
    > Which begins by copying the MBR and partition table, then the rest of
    > (normally) GRUB, the the first primary partition, and the rest of the
    > partitions. GRUB would look for the same menu.lst file, on the same
    > partition as was used on the 80 gig, therefore you'd either have to edit
    > menu.lst or put the new 320 gig in the same place as the 80 gig was, if
    > one is IDE and the other is SCSI, that won't be physically possible, so
    > you need to edit menu.lst anyway.
    >
    > Or instead of all that, first size a (some) new partition(s) on the 320
    > gig to fit the data from the 80 gig, and format appropriately. Then
    > copy MOST of the drive (without the MBR nor the partition table, nor
    > GRUB from its normal installation position) then copy one partition at a
    > time:
    >
    > dd if=/dev/hda1 of=/dev/sda1 (This avoids the first 63 sectors
    > <512 byte> of each drive)
    > or simply:
    > cp -a /mnt/old80gig-partition1 /mnt/new320gig-partition1
    >
    > Then install grub. dd can also skip (and seek) over those first
    > sectors, use bs=512 for convenience.
    >
    > Most live CDs (Knoppix, Puppy, Gparted CD, etc.) will be able to mount
    > IDE and SCSI disks, copy with dd or cp, and can mount most Windows
    > partitions, and probably have grub available to install on te new
    > drive... BUT I am not certain that the kernel is bullet-proof at reading
    > an NTFS or not, you'll have to check that with the forums/release notes
    > of the latest mount command and latest linux kernels. For example:
    >
    > "First, there is the Linux kernel driver: It is fast and reliable when
    > reading files, but it has very limited write support. Almost all Linux
    > distributions (except RedHat/Fedora) already include the kernel driver.
    > Second, there is the ntfsmount: It is a user-space driver comparable to
    > the kernel driver concerning reliability, but includes full write
    > support since version 2.0.0. Third there are our ntfsprogs, which are a
    > collection of tools for performing various operations on NTFS volumes
    > like creating, resizing, cloning and so on."
    >
    > (Quoted from http://www.linux-ntfs.org )
    >
    > GRUB v.95 names drives with e.g.: (fd0) for the first floppy, (cd0) for
    > the first CD drive only if it is booted from a CD, (hd0) for the first
    > IDE drive, and (hd0,1) for the first partition. I don't know how grub
    > names SCSI disks.
    >
    > For the details of dd or cp:
    > info coreutils dd
    > info coreutils cp
    >
    > And if you really want to hack into those first 63 sectors, one of the
    > most DANGEROUS thing that you can DO with your hard-drive, then this
    > site does a good job examining what MS does with them:
    >
    > http://mirror.href.com/thestarman
    >
    >
    >
    >> A good Kiss system a business owner that would have confidence in
    >> using... Windows and its activation would be the only stumbling block,
    >> if they lost the computer to dishonist employee, fire, or theft...
    >>
    >> But with a linux operating system there would not be the same hardware
    >> problems and no activation problem...
    >>
    >>

    > I guess if you can't fine a live linux CD to do cloning automatically, I
    > guess that is because the commands to do it are so readilly available
    > that no-one bothered with any script or probram to do it automatically?
    >
    > The "activation problem" is a Windows issue, probably a licensing issue,
    > and is off-topic. When one purchases MS Windows products, they support
    > MS licensing policies.
    >
    > -- steve s.


    * * *
    Steve,

    Thanks for the the information, I have not been successful in cloning the
    dual booting system from a questionable IDE drive to the newer SATA...

    I fully aware an install of both operating system would be the best
    procedure... But this is really a windows problem not much of a Linux
    problem. The Linux Distro only took 8 minutes to install the last time,
    a few moments to do the updates via Synaptic, and set up the HP
    printer.

    The reason the windows clone is important there are many software
    packages installed that the owner has misplaced or lost the original
    software CD... I am told none of it is wares, but she no longer has a
    procedure to re-install the software she uses every week. She is an
    older person, set in her ways living in a large house that will take her
    children months & months to clean/explore after her will becomes
    effective...

    I can only imagine she has the CDs inside the house, not in the small
    apartment out back, but her guess is as good as yours where the software
    CD maybe hidden. Laughing but your guess would be better than mine, and
    you have never seen the dwelling or the amount of accumulated material
    she has collected.

    Again thanks for the info, it is not the end of the world, this is a
    favor to assist her and it has become a learning project for me...

    But I find it amazing a clone Distro has not been developed for this
    dual booting situation? There are so many tools just lying about that
    are developed and forgotten about in the Linux world... I joined my
    local users group, and am amazed about the tools and utilities that are
    worked upon, then when needed again are not locatable...

    My one year exposure to Linux has been like it will be for her children
    when exploring her home...

    JR the postman

  6. Re: Clone IDE drive to new Larger SATA drive

    JR the Postman wrote:
    > I need to clone older IDE drive to new SATA drive with a dual booting O/S
    > systems:
    >
    > Windows XP & Mepis 7 64-bit Linux... Using grub (Will this need to be
    > edited to find Windows and the Linux distro?)
    >
    > I understand I can boot a live CD and then use the dd command to clone
    > the 80 gig IDE drive attached as a sdc1 to the Larger 320 gig SATA drive
    > sda0... If I set bios to use Sata hard drive only, the slave position on
    > the CD drive cable will still be available...
    >
    > I do not want to image, I only want to clone the existing 80 gig to to
    > the new SATA drive. Will I need to prepare the new SATA drive as a boot
    > drive, with the partitions or is the dd command the entire solution and
    > will do everything?
    >
    > The 80 gig IDE drive is installed in a motherboard that provides support
    > for both IDE and SATA - ECS ASterope3/RC410
    >
    > I am not certain about windows, will I need to reactivate with the hard
    > drive change, will that be a problem? Or, a phone call to reactivate
    > after a booting with the SATA drive...
    >
    > JR


    That's why they make Clonezilla live CD. Download the .iso and burn it
    to cd.

    --
    Blattus Slafaly ف ٣

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