Clone IDE drive to new Larger SATA drive

I need to clone older IDE drive to new SATA drive with a dual booting O/S
systems:

Windows XP & Mepis 7 64-bit Linux... Using grub (Will this need to be
edited to find Windows and the Linux distro?)

I understand I can boot a live CD and then use the dd command to clone
the 80 gig IDE drive attached as a sdc1 to the Larger 320 gig SATA drive
sda0... If I set bios to use Sata hard drive only, the slave position on
the CD drive cable will still be available...

I do not want to image, I only want to clone the existing 80 gig to to
the new SATA drive. Will I need to prepare the new SATA drive as a boot
drive, with the partitions or is the dd command the entire solution and
will do everything?

The 80 gig IDE drive is installed in a motherboard that provides support
for both IDE and SATA - ECS ASterope3/RC410

I am not certain about windows, will I need to reactivate with the hard
drive change, will that be a problem? Or, a phone call to reactivate
after a booting with the SATA drive...

JR

JR the Postman wrote:[color=blue]
> I need to clone older IDE drive to new SATA drive with a dual booting O/S
> systems:
>
> Windows XP & Mepis 7 64-bit Linux... Using grub (Will this need to be
> edited to find Windows and the Linux distro?)
>
> I understand I can boot a live CD and then use the dd command to clone
> the 80 gig IDE drive attached as a sdc1 to the Larger 320 gig SATA drive
> sda0... If I set bios to use Sata hard drive only, the slave position on
> the CD drive cable will still be available...
>
> I do not want to image, I only want to clone the existing 80 gig to to
> the new SATA drive. Will I need to prepare the new SATA drive as a boot
> drive, with the partitions or is the dd command the entire solution and
> will do everything?
>
> The 80 gig IDE drive is installed in a motherboard that provides support
> for both IDE and SATA - ECS ASterope3/RC410
>
> I am not certain about windows, will I need to reactivate with the hard
> drive change, will that be a problem? Or, a phone call to reactivate
> after a booting with the SATA drive...
>
> JR[/color]

I hint that you will use high-level copying. Load from a livecd. Create
as much, as many the amount of the partitions at the new hdd and mount
them and the partitions of the old hdd.

After these operations new hdd will contain workable system. Then, using
the program chroot, you will fix up a loader. I don't about the grub,
but I always so make. My loader is the lilo.
Please, It will note, that new root partition must contain the folders
/bin, the /usr and the /etc. Other partitions would mount after.

exmaple:
$chroot /tmp
$vi /etc/lilo # edit the boot table
$lilo # apply the changes
$exit
$reboot

Before the chroot umount those partitions which you will be to mount in
the new system, just in case.

Daneel

On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 14:31:53 +0400, Daneel Yaitskov wrote:
[color=blue]
> JR the Postman wrote:[color=green]
>> I need to clone older IDE drive to new SATA drive with a dual booting
>> O/S systems:
>>
>> Windows XP & Mepis 7 64-bit Linux... Using grub (Will this need to be
>> edited to find Windows and the Linux distro?)
>>
>> I understand I can boot a live CD and then use the dd command to clone
>> the 80 gig IDE drive attached as a sdc1 to the Larger 320 gig SATA
>> drive sda0... If I set bios to use Sata hard drive only, the slave
>> position on the CD drive cable will still be available...
>>
>> I do not want to image, I only want to clone the existing 80 gig to to
>> the new SATA drive. Will I need to prepare the new SATA drive as a
>> boot drive, with the partitions or is the dd command the entire
>> solution and will do everything?
>>
>> The 80 gig IDE drive is installed in a motherboard that provides
>> support for both IDE and SATA - ECS ASterope3/RC410
>>
>> I am not certain about windows, will I need to reactivate with the hard
>> drive change, will that be a problem? Or, a phone call to reactivate
>> after a booting with the SATA drive...
>>
>> JR[/color]
>
> I hint that you will use high-level copying. Load from a livecd. Create
> as much, as many the amount of the partitions at the new hdd and mount
> them and the partitions of the old hdd.
>
> After these operations new hdd will contain workable system. Then, using
> the program chroot, you will fix up a loader. I don't about the grub,
> but I always so make. My loader is the lilo. Please, It will note, that
> new root partition must contain the folders /bin, the /usr and the /etc.
> Other partitions would mount after.
>
> exmaple:
> $chroot /tmp
> $vi /etc/lilo # edit the boot table
> $lilo # apply the changes
> $exit
> $reboot
>
> Before the chroot umount those partitions which you will be to mount in
> the new system, just in case.
>
> Daneel[/color]

* * *
Daneel.

This motherboard is a problem, that is new information. My experience
with this motherboards, is finding information on this motherboard is
like hating to visit the dentist, and suddenly being put into the
position of pulling my own Teeth...

The user complains about a slow USB, and I also can not locate a USB
driver from HP, or ECS... Can only presume it is part of the chip set
bundle...

I was thinking about using the powerful DD command from a live CD, after
preparing the drive as a boot drive with the manufactures set up
utilities... Maybe that setup preparation is a waste of time?

dd if=/dev/sdc1 of=/dev/sda0

And then removing the IDE drive, taking the ordinary step of tossing some
salt over my shoulder and pressing the on, button.

It is only a 80 gig drive with a working dual boot set-up... This is not
a critical server, or a cad driven Bridgeport milling machine or water
jet...

I was going to set up an experiment to see if I can accomplish this, but
I do not have a similar ECS motherboard with the SATA & IDE Hard drive
connection. I do have a ECS Geforce6100 to perform the copy test but
since I do not have a method to install windows via IDE on that
motherboard can not check its like or dislike when being upgraded to a
SATA Drive...

I appreciate the valuable input, but wonder why you did not mentioned
the dd command? I would presume somewhere there is a live CD Distro
about with a GUI for the express purpose of scanning all drives, and
performing a copy or back-up from one drive to another...

This would be a simple system for most small office to perform a monthly
backup or recovery of their main computer to a USB drive for off premise
storage...

A good Kiss system a business owner that would have confidence in
using... Windows and its activation would be the only stumbling block,
if they lost the computer to dishonist employee, fire, or theft...

But with a linux operating system there would not be the same hardware
problems and no activation problem...

QuickBooks and Peachtree running with wine 1.1, and more small offices
would migrate to Linux, because they will not use Vista...

JR

On Wed, 16 Jul 2008 11:54:55 -0400, JR the Postman
<JR_the_Postman@xyzahoo.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
> On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 14:31:53 +0400, Daneel Yaitskov wrote:
>[color=green]
>> JR the Postman wrote:[color=darkred]
>>> I need to clone older IDE drive to new SATA drive with a dual booting
>>> O/S systems:
>>>
>>> Windows XP & Mepis 7 64-bit Linux... Using grub (Will this need to be
>>> edited to find Windows and the Linux distro?)
>>>
>>> I understand I can boot a live CD and then use the dd command to clone
>>> the 80 gig IDE drive attached as a sdc1 to the Larger 320 gig SATA
>>> drive sda0...[/color][/color][/color]

An IDE drive would be named as one version of /dev/hd[a-z]
in Linux. The partitions add a single number to the end of
that name 1-4 being the four primary partitions and the others
being the extended partitions. Grub uses a different naming
convention based on BIOS, btw. In Linux, the SCSI disks are
named with /dev/sd[a-p], and their partitions append a single
number to the end of that name.

For safety it is a good idea to back-up the first sectors of the
old hard-drive:

dd if=/dev/hda of=/tmp/hda-63sects bs=512 count=63

But if GRUB is installed somewhere other than the MBR then back
up the first sectors of that (or every) partition:

dd if=/dev/hda1 of=/tmp/hda1-63sects bs=512 count=63

dd can clone, but it WILL CLONE, that means copy everything!
You probably don't actually want the partition table from an
80 gig drive on a 320 gig drive, do you? I guess you can, if
you then re-partition the 320 gig drive after dd finishes, but
that's a bit odd.

So, if you did clone from the 80 to the 320 gig drive with dd:

dd if=/dev/hda of=/dev/sda

Which begins by copying the MBR and partition table, then
the rest of (normally) GRUB, the the first primary partition,
and the rest of the partitions. GRUB would look for the same
menu.lst file, on the same partition as was used on the 80 gig,
therefore you'd either have to edit menu.lst or put the new
320 gig in the same place as the 80 gig was, if one is IDE
and the other is SCSI, that won't be physically possible,
so you need to edit menu.lst anyway.

Or instead of all that, first size a (some) new partition(s)
on the 320 gig to fit the data from the 80 gig, and format
appropriately. Then copy MOST of the drive (without the MBR
nor the partition table, nor GRUB from its normal installation
position) then copy one partition at a time:

dd if=/dev/hda1 of=/dev/sda1 (This avoids the first 63 sectors
<512 byte> of each drive)
or simply:
cp -a /mnt/old80gig-partition1 /mnt/new320gig-partition1

Then install grub. dd can also skip (and seek) over those first
sectors, use bs=512 for convenience.

Most live CDs (Knoppix, Puppy, Gparted CD,
etc.) will be able to mount IDE and SCSI disks, copy with dd
or cp, and can mount most Windows partitions, and probably
have grub available to install on te new drive... BUT I am not
certain that the kernel is bullet-proof at reading an NTFS or
not, you'll have to check that with the forums/release notes of
the latest mount command and latest linux kernels. For example:

"First, there is the Linux kernel driver: It is fast and reliable
when reading files, but it has very limited write support. Almost
all Linux distributions (except RedHat/Fedora) already include
the kernel driver. Second, there is the ntfsmount: It is a
user-space driver comparable to the kernel driver concerning
reliability, but includes full write support since version 2.0.0.
Third there are our ntfsprogs, which are a collection of tools
for performing various operations on NTFS volumes like creating,
resizing, cloning and so on."

(Quoted from [url]http://www.linux-ntfs.org[/url] )

GRUB v.95 names drives with e.g.: (fd0) for the first floppy,
(cd0) for the first CD drive only if it is booted from a CD,
(hd0) for the first IDE drive, and (hd0,1) for the first partition.
I don't know how grub names SCSI disks.

For the details of dd or cp:
info coreutils dd
info coreutils cp

And if you really want to hack into those first 63 sectors, one
of the most DANGEROUS thing that you can DO with your hard-drive,
then this site does a good job examining what MS does with them:

[url]http://mirror.href.com/thestarman[/url]

[color=blue]
>
> A good Kiss system a business owner that would have confidence in
> using... Windows and its activation would be the only stumbling block,
> if they lost the computer to dishonist employee, fire, or theft...
>
> But with a linux operating system there would not be the same hardware
> problems and no activation problem...
>[/color]

I guess if you can't fine a live linux CD to do cloning
automatically, I guess that is because the commands to do it
are so readilly available that no-one bothered with any script
or probram to do it automatically?

The "activation problem" is a Windows issue, probably a
licensing issue, and is off-topic. When one purchases MS
Windows products, they support MS licensing policies.

-- steve s.

On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 18:27:22 -0400, S S wrote:
[color=blue]
> On Wed, 16 Jul 2008 11:54:55 -0400, JR the Postman
> <JR_the_Postman@xyzahoo.com> wrote:
>[color=green]
>> On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 14:31:53 +0400, Daneel Yaitskov wrote:
>>[color=darkred]
>>> JR the Postman wrote:
>>>> I need to clone older IDE drive to new SATA drive with a dual booting
>>>> O/S systems:
>>>>
>>>> Windows XP & Mepis 7 64-bit Linux... Using grub (Will this need to be
>>>> edited to find Windows and the Linux distro?)
>>>>
>>>> I understand I can boot a live CD and then use the dd command to
>>>> clone the 80 gig IDE drive attached as a sdc1 to the Larger 320 gig
>>>> SATA drive sda0...[/color][/color]
>
> An IDE drive would be named as one version of /dev/hd[a-z] in Linux.
> The partitions add a single number to the end of that name 1-4 being the
> four primary partitions and the others being the extended partitions.
> Grub uses a different naming convention based on BIOS, btw. In Linux,
> the SCSI disks are named with /dev/sd[a-p], and their partitions append
> a single number to the end of that name.
>
> For safety it is a good idea to back-up the first sectors of the old
> hard-drive:
>
> dd if=/dev/hda of=/tmp/hda-63sects bs=512 count=63
>
> But if GRUB is installed somewhere other than the MBR then back up the
> first sectors of that (or every) partition:
>
> dd if=/dev/hda1 of=/tmp/hda1-63sects bs=512 count=63
>
> dd can clone, but it WILL CLONE, that means copy everything! You
> probably don't actually want the partition table from an 80 gig drive on
> a 320 gig drive, do you? I guess you can, if you then re-partition the
> 320 gig drive after dd finishes, but that's a bit odd.
>
> So, if you did clone from the 80 to the 320 gig drive with dd:
>
> dd if=/dev/hda of=/dev/sda
>
> Which begins by copying the MBR and partition table, then the rest of
> (normally) GRUB, the the first primary partition, and the rest of the
> partitions. GRUB would look for the same menu.lst file, on the same
> partition as was used on the 80 gig, therefore you'd either have to edit
> menu.lst or put the new 320 gig in the same place as the 80 gig was, if
> one is IDE and the other is SCSI, that won't be physically possible, so
> you need to edit menu.lst anyway.
>
> Or instead of all that, first size a (some) new partition(s) on the 320
> gig to fit the data from the 80 gig, and format appropriately. Then
> copy MOST of the drive (without the MBR nor the partition table, nor
> GRUB from its normal installation position) then copy one partition at a
> time:
>
> dd if=/dev/hda1 of=/dev/sda1 (This avoids the first 63 sectors
> <512 byte> of each drive)
> or simply:
> cp -a /mnt/old80gig-partition1 /mnt/new320gig-partition1
>
> Then install grub. dd can also skip (and seek) over those first
> sectors, use bs=512 for convenience.
>
> Most live CDs (Knoppix, Puppy, Gparted CD, etc.) will be able to mount
> IDE and SCSI disks, copy with dd or cp, and can mount most Windows
> partitions, and probably have grub available to install on te new
> drive... BUT I am not certain that the kernel is bullet-proof at reading
> an NTFS or not, you'll have to check that with the forums/release notes
> of the latest mount command and latest linux kernels. For example:
>
> "First, there is the Linux kernel driver: It is fast and reliable when
> reading files, but it has very limited write support. Almost all Linux
> distributions (except RedHat/Fedora) already include the kernel driver.
> Second, there is the ntfsmount: It is a user-space driver comparable to
> the kernel driver concerning reliability, but includes full write
> support since version 2.0.0. Third there are our ntfsprogs, which are a
> collection of tools for performing various operations on NTFS volumes
> like creating, resizing, cloning and so on."
>
> (Quoted from [url]http://www.linux-ntfs.org[/url] )
>
> GRUB v.95 names drives with e.g.: (fd0) for the first floppy, (cd0) for
> the first CD drive only if it is booted from a CD, (hd0) for the first
> IDE drive, and (hd0,1) for the first partition. I don't know how grub
> names SCSI disks.
>
> For the details of dd or cp:
> info coreutils dd
> info coreutils cp
>
> And if you really want to hack into those first 63 sectors, one of the
> most DANGEROUS thing that you can DO with your hard-drive, then this
> site does a good job examining what MS does with them:
>
> [url]http://mirror.href.com/thestarman[/url]
>
>
>[color=green]
>> A good Kiss system a business owner that would have confidence in
>> using... Windows and its activation would be the only stumbling block,
>> if they lost the computer to dishonist employee, fire, or theft...
>>
>> But with a linux operating system there would not be the same hardware
>> problems and no activation problem...
>>
>>[/color]
> I guess if you can't fine a live linux CD to do cloning automatically, I
> guess that is because the commands to do it are so readilly available
> that no-one bothered with any script or probram to do it automatically?
>
> The "activation problem" is a Windows issue, probably a licensing issue,
> and is off-topic. When one purchases MS Windows products, they support
> MS licensing policies.
>
> -- steve s.[/color]

* * *
Steve,

Thanks for the the information, I have not been successful in cloning the
dual booting system from a questionable IDE drive to the newer SATA...

I fully aware an install of both operating system would be the best
procedure... But this is really a windows problem not much of a Linux
problem. The Linux Distro only took 8 minutes to install the last time,
a few moments to do the updates via Synaptic, and set up the HP
printer.

The reason the windows clone is important there are many software
packages installed that the owner has misplaced or lost the original
software CD... I am told none of it is wares, but she no longer has a
procedure to re-install the software she uses every week. She is an
older person, set in her ways living in a large house that will take her
children months & months to clean/explore after her will becomes
effective...

I can only imagine she has the CDs inside the house, not in the small
apartment out back, but her guess is as good as yours where the software
CD maybe hidden. Laughing but your guess would be better than mine, and
you have never seen the dwelling or the amount of accumulated material
she has collected.

Again thanks for the info, it is not the end of the world, this is a
favor to assist her and it has become a learning project for me...

But I find it amazing a clone Distro has not been developed for this
dual booting situation? There are so many tools just lying about that
are developed and forgotten about in the Linux world... I joined my
local users group, and am amazed about the tools and utilities that are
worked upon, then when needed again are not locatable...

My one year exposure to Linux has been like it will be for her children
when exploring her home...

JR the postman

JR the Postman wrote:[color=blue]
> I need to clone older IDE drive to new SATA drive with a dual booting O/S
> systems:
>
> Windows XP & Mepis 7 64-bit Linux... Using grub (Will this need to be
> edited to find Windows and the Linux distro?)
>
> I understand I can boot a live CD and then use the dd command to clone
> the 80 gig IDE drive attached as a sdc1 to the Larger 320 gig SATA drive
> sda0... If I set bios to use Sata hard drive only, the slave position on
> the CD drive cable will still be available...
>
> I do not want to image, I only want to clone the existing 80 gig to to
> the new SATA drive. Will I need to prepare the new SATA drive as a boot
> drive, with the partitions or is the dd command the entire solution and
> will do everything?
>
> The 80 gig IDE drive is installed in a motherboard that provides support
> for both IDE and SATA - ECS ASterope3/RC410
>
> I am not certain about windows, will I need to reactivate with the hard
> drive change, will that be a problem? Or, a phone call to reactivate
> after a booting with the SATA drive...
>
> JR[/color]

That's why they make Clonezilla live CD. Download the .iso and burn it
to cd.

--
Blattus Slafaly ف ٣ :) ⅞