On 5 Mar 2005 20:29:32 -0800, floresg@gmail.com wrote:
> I've got Mandrake 10.1 installed and I've been having trouble
> installing and upgrading software. I tried uninstalling Opera and
> reinstalling a newer version and now it won't start up. I would like to
> do the same with Open Office (1.1.1 to 1.1.4), but I'm afraid it'll
> stop working. Same with Firefox 1.0.1.

I have 10.1 OE and it came with OO 1.1.3. There is little difference
between 1.1.3 and 1.1.4. There are no rpm packages available for OO
1.1.4 yet. If you really feel like you need it for some reason, the
only way is to install it from the tarball available from the
OpenOffice.org website. I wouldn't recommend installing that way for a
n00b. Best to always install packages designed for your system. Or, in
a couple of months 10.2 will be out with all the latest stuff.

> What is the proper procedure for upgrading? The control center update
> tool for mandrake doesn't detect any of these updates, so I can't
> upgrade them through there?

You can, and very easily if you set it up right and if the particular
software you want is available. Here's some basic info to get you
started:

"Basic urpmi:

Urpmi will easily and automagically take care of finding, downloading
and installing software and its dependencies. The "Software
Management" utility in Mandrake Control Center is a GUI frontend for
urpmi, but it's also very easy to use urpmi from the command line.

To set up your online sources for installing/updating software you need
to know how to 'su' to root, which is very simple. Open a terminal and
do this:

$ su
Password:
#

Note that the cursor changed from '$' to '#' indicating you now have
'root' rights, so be careful! If you don't fully understand the 'su'
process, root permissions, etc. some simple Googling will explain it.

Now, to setup your online software sources go here:

http://easyurpmi.zarb.org/

Follow the directions to setup your online package sources. Choose
them carefully, staying with sources for your particular Mandrake
version. You'll probably want to add the main sources for your version,
the Contributors sources, the PLF repositories, and maybe a few others.
Warning: Add the Cooker sources at your own risk. Cooker is beta stuff
still in testing for the next release and may or may not cause you
problems.

When you've finished setting up your source mirrors you can start using
the real power of urpmi. You can now install/uninstall a package using
your newly-setup online sources either by using the GUI installer in
Mandrake Control Center, or better, from the command line in a terminal.
To install 'su' to root, then:
Password:
#

Note that the cursor changed from '$' to '#' indicating you now have
'root' rights, so be careful! If you don't fully understand the 'su'
process, root permissions, etc. some simple Googling will explain it.

Now, to setup your online software sources go here:

http://easyurpmi.zarb.org/

Follow the directions to setup your online package sources. Choose
them carefully, staying with sources for your particular Mandrake
version. You'll probably want to add the main sources for your version,
the Contributors sources, the PLF repositories, and maybe a few others.
Warning: Add the Cooker sources at your own risk. Cooker is beta stuff
still in testing for the next release and may or may not cause you
problems.

When you've finished setting up your source mirrors you can start using
the real power of urpmi. You can now install/uninstall a package using
your newly-setup online sources either by using the GUI installer in
Mandrake Control Center, or better, from the command line in a terminal.
To install 'su' to root, then:

# urpmi -v ('-v' for verbose output is optional, but I
like the extra info it provides)

where is normally just the 'simple' version, i.e. using
the email client Mutt for example, instead of the full package name:

# urpmi -v mutt-1.5.6i-2mdk.i586.rpm

Use:

# urpmi -v mutt

Then urpmi will automagically go to the 'Net sources you choose, find
and download the latest available Mutt RPM for your version of
Mandrake, grab any other packages needed to resolve all dependencies
and install everything in the correct order. If urpmi can't complete
the install, either because all the required software isn't available
on the source mirrors you choose or possibly some other conflict(s), it
will stop the install process before actual changes are made and give
you some info about the problem.

Similarly, for packages you've downloaded and saved, just navigate to
the directory where you saved them:

# cd /mysaved/rpm/is.here

Then (for this, you may need to use the full packagename):

# urpmi -v

Uninstalling a package is simply 'urpme' instead of 'urpmi'.

Be aware that while using RPMs compiled for other versions of Mandrake
or for other distros sometimes will work fine, they may not and the
possibility for problems exists. So always try to use RPMs for your
distro and version whenever possible, which in the case of Mandrake is
almost always. If you must use a RPM from another distro, it's best to
try a test install first, as in:

# urpmi -v --test

This does a "dry run" to check if the package(s) can be sucessfully
installed but without actually changing anything on the system. If all
is well, remove the '--test' switch to install normally.

It's important to always install RPMs (.rpm), not from tarballs, when
using any rpm-based distro like RedHat, Suse or Mandrake. This is also
true of '.deb' package based distros such as Debian. Why? Because if
you always install RPMs (or .debs), then Mandrake's urpmi (or Suse's
YAST, Debian's apt or whatever package manager) is able to properly keep
track of everything installed on your system and so keep everything
correctly configured and updated. But if you install packages from
source tarballs, then urpmi cannot keep things straight since it has no
info about the installed tarballs or their contents.

Sometimes a particular piece or a newer version of software may only be
available as a source tarball. No problem - it's still very easy make
your own RPMs from source with a handy utility called checkinstall,
included on the Mandrake CDs. I won't go into more detail about
checkinstall here. Google for more info about it."

This should be enough to get you going. For more info, open a terminal
and type 'man urpmi" or do some Googling, particularly 'easy urpmi'.
Lotsa info available.

> In WinXP, it'd be so easy to install, upgrade, remove, or revert to a
> previous version. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

This is Linux, not Windows. Don't assume things are, or should be, the
same as in Windoze. They aren't and shouldn't be. But once you get the
hang of Linux - and it will take a while, just like it did to learn
Windoze - you'll find it's a far better OS, and that software management
and general system maintenince is, if anything, far less trouble than in
XPee. No defragging, no worms, viruses or spyware, no reboots after
software installation - you'll see. I spend *far* less time maintaining
a Linux install than Windoze.

Winshaft often has, and still does, give me fits sometimes with software
that won't run, or installation of one thing breaks other apps, etc. At
my office I have to keep 2 old Win98 machines around just to run the
apps that break others when installed together or mysterioulsy run
properly on Win9x but not Win2k or XP, although they're *supposed* to.

Keep an open mind and don't give up easily, and it will be worth it.
--
Registered Linux user #266531

On Sun, 06 Mar 2005 15:02:15 GMT, Crashdamage <03z1krd7@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> On 5 Mar 2005 20:29:32 -0800, floresg@gmail.com wrote:

OK, let me try this post again...

>> I've got Mandrake 10.1 installed and I've been having trouble
>> installing and upgrading software. I tried uninstalling Opera and
>> reinstalling a newer version and now it won't start up. I would like to
>> do the same with Open Office (1.1.1 to 1.1.4), but I'm afraid it'll
>> stop working. Same with Firefox 1.0.1.

> I have 10.1 OE and it came with OO 1.1.3. There is little difference
> between 1.1.3 and 1.1.4. There are no rpm packages available for OO
> 1.1.4 yet. If you really feel like you need it for some reason, the
> only way is to install it from the tarball available from the
> OpenOffice.org website. I wouldn't recommend installing that way for a
> n00b. Best to always install packages designed for your system. Or, in
> a couple of months 10.2 will be out with all the latest stuff.

It would also help if you told us how you did the install/uninstall,
what versions of Opera you installed/uninstalled, etc.

>> What is the proper procedure for upgrading? The control center update
>> tool for mandrake doesn't detect any of these updates, so I can't
>> upgrade them through there?

> You can, and very easily if you set it up right and if the particular
> software you want is available. Here's some basic info to get you
> started:

Revised, with a much better job of copy/paste (sorry):

**Basic urpmi setup and usage**

Urpmi will easily and automagically take care of finding, downloading
and installing software and its dependencies. The "Software
Management" utility in Mandrake Control Center is a GUI frontend for
urpmi, but it's also very easy to use urpmi from the command line.

To set up your online sources for installing/updating software you need
to know how to 'su' to root, which is very simple. Open a terminal and
do this:

$ su
Password:
#

Note that the cursor changed from '$' to '#' indicating you now have
'root' rights, so be careful! If you don't fully understand the 'su'
process, root permissions, etc. some simple Googling will explain it.

Now, to setup your online software sources go here:

http://easyurpmi.zarb.org/

Follow the directions to setup your online package sources. Choose
them carefully, staying with sources for your particular Mandrake
version. You'll probably want to add the main sources for your version,
the Contributors sources, the PLF repositories, and maybe a few others.
Warning: Add the Cooker sources at your own risk. Cooker is beta stuff
still in testing for the next release and may or may not cause you
problems.

When you've finished setting up your source mirrors you can start using
the real power of urpmi. You can now install/uninstall a package using
your newly-setup online sources either by using the GUI installer in
Mandrake Control Center, or better, from the command line in a terminal.
To install 'su' to root, then:

# urpmi -v ('-v' for verbose output is optional, but I
like the extra info it provides)

Note that is normally just the 'simple' version. Using
the email client Mutt for example, instead of using the full package
name:

# urpmi -v mutt-1.5.6i-2mdk.i586.rpm

Use:

# urpmi -v mutt

Then urpmi will automagically go to the 'Net sources you choose, find
and download the latest available Mutt RPM for your version of
Mandrake, grab any other packages needed to resolve all dependencies
and install everything in the correct order. If urpmi can't complete
the install, either because all the required software isn't available
on the source mirrors you choose or possibly some other conflict(s), it
will stop the install process before actual changes are made and give
you some info about the problem.

Similarly, for packages you've downloaded and saved, just navigate to
the directory where you saved them:

# cd /mysaved/rpm/is.here

Then (for this, you may need to use the full packagename):

# urpmi -v

Uninstalling a package is simply 'urpme' instead of 'urpmi'.

Be aware that while using RPMs compiled for other versions of Mandrake
or for other distros sometimes will work fine, they may not and the
possibility for problems exists. Think of this as similar to installing
Windows software where installing something on Win98 but meant for XP
(or
vice-versa) may well not work. The software should be meant for use
with the OS version it's installed on. So always try to use RPMs for
your distro and version whenever possible, which in the case of Mandrake
is almost always. If you must use a RPM from another version or distro,
it may or may not work.

But unlike Windows, urpmi allows you to do a 'test' installation instead
of having to just try it and see what happens. To do a test install, do
this:

# urpmi -v --test

This does a 'dry run' to check if the package(s) can be sucessfully
installed but without actually changing anything on the system. If all
is well, remove the '--test' switch to install normally.

It's important to always install RPMs (.rpm), not from tarballs, when
using any rpm-based distro like RedHat, Suse or Mandrake. This is also
true of '.deb' package based distros such as Debian. Why? Because if
you always install RPMs (or .debs), then Mandrake's urpmi (or Suse's
YAST, Debian's apt or whatever package manager) is able to properly keep
track of everything installed on your system and so keep everything
correctly configured and updated. But if you install packages from
source tarballs, then urpmi cannot keep things straight since it has no
info about the installed tarballs or their contents. The chances of
installing from tarballs breaking anything is fairly slight, but it can
happen, so why risk it if you don't have to?

Sometimes a particular piece or a newer version of software may only be
available as a source tarball. No problem - it's still very easy make
your own RPMs from source with a handy utility called checkinstall,
included on the Mandrake CDs. I won't go into more detail about
checkinstall here. Google for more info about it.

> This should be enough to get you going. For more info, open a terminal
> and type 'man urpmi" or do some Googling, particularly 'easy urpmi'.
> Lotsa info available.

>> In WinXP, it'd be so easy to install, upgrade, remove, or revert to a
>> previous version. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

> This is Linux, not Windows. Don't assume things are, or should be, the
> same as in Windoze. They aren't and shouldn't be. But once you get the
> hang of Linux - and it will take a while, just like it did to learn
> Windoze - you'll find it's a far better OS, and that software management
> and general system maintenince is, if anything, far less trouble than in
> XPee. No defragging, no worms, viruses or spyware, no reboots after
> software installation - you'll see. I spend *far* less time maintaining
> a Linux install than Windoze.

> Winshaft often has, and still does, give me fits sometimes with software
> that won't run, or installation of one thing breaks other apps, etc. At
> my office I have to keep 2 old Win98 machines around just to run the
> apps that break others when installed together or mysterioulsy run
> properly on Win9x but not Win2k or XP, although they're *supposed* to.

> Keep an open mind and don't give up easily, and it will be worth it.


--
Registered Linux user #266531

Thanks for the response. I have used urpmi and I find it very easy to
use. It works for about 90% of the stuff I need. However, there are
times when I need to upgrade, and that specific version is not there.
Then what do I do?

You're right, I have 1.1.3, my mistake. I would like to try out 1.2
beta (because of more features and greater interoperability with
Microsoft Office).
I installed Opera 8 beta from their website (had 7.54). Now, there's a
problem with Java... it's not too much of a big deal, since I use
Firefox, but I'd still like to try out the new version.

I know generally how to work with the console and urpmi, but some
questions still linger. I'll try to make them clear. I'm still
confused. You said that sometimes installing/upgrading may break
things. Does this happen often? Do you suggest I refrain from
upgrading?

1. If I install a program using urpmi, can I upgrade using an rpm from
the official site (not in urpmi database)?

2. If I install a program using urpmi, can I upgrade using an tar.gz
file from the official site?

3. If I install a program using tar.gz, can I upgrade using an rpm?

4. If I install a program using tar.gz, can I upgrade using tar.gz?

5. I would like to upgrade my Firefox, but I don't want to screw it up.
I currently have 1.0 and would like to try 1.0.1. I've only seen the
tar.gz available. Could you walk me through the upgrading process? I
don't remember how I installed it (should I know?).

Sorry for these beginner questions. I've got about a thousand tiny
questions about Linux and these are a few. So again, thank you for your
help.

On 6 Mar 2005 16:27:53 -0800, floresg@gmail.com wrote:
> Thanks for the response. I have used urpmi and I find it very easy to
> use. It works for about 90% of the stuff I need. However, there are
> times when I need to upgrade, and that specific version is not there.
> Then what do I do?

Mandrake has pretty up-to-date packages, especially if you add the
contrib and plf sources to urpmi. Another good source for the latest
stuff is Thac's rpms:
http://rpm.nyvalls.se/
Add his repositories to your urpmi sources and have at it. Cooker rpms
may be even newer, but it's alpha and beta stuff not recommended unless
you are willing to risk breaking things and not complain if you do.

If you *still* have a serious jones for even *newer* programs, your're a
beta tester at heart or need to look for a 12-step program. Or learn to
install from source tarballs (not all that hard) and accept any risk
that entails.

> You're right, I have 1.1.3, my mistake. I would like to try out 1.2
> beta (because of more features and greater interoperability with
> Microsoft Office).

You're not going to see any major changes going from OO-1.1.3 > 1.2.0.
A quick check of a few rpm mirrors told me a 1.2.0 rpm is probably not
yet available. Remember, getting software this new is not really like
buying the latest boxed version on the shelf in the Windows world.
Getting OO-1.2.0 is like getting a pre-production beta of commercial
Windoze software. It wouldn't be on shelves for 6-12 months. Couldn't
buy it if you wanted to.

You can:
1. Wait a while for it to show up on one of the sources like contrib or
Thac's rpms...
2. Wait for it to show up on Cooker and risk that..
3. Wait a couple of months for MDK 10.2. Likely it will be in there.
4. Install the source tarball. Like I've said - not recommended.

> I installed Opera 8 beta from their website (had 7.54). Now, there's a
> problem with Java... it's not too much of a big deal, since I use
> Firefox, but I'd still like to try out the new version.

Hey, beta is is beta does...and sometimes beta software doesn't do so
well. It has always been so, regardless of OS. Maybe try the next
version. Don't forget to uninstall the old one first, since it's a
broken install.

> I know generally how to work with the console and urpmi, but some
> questions still linger. I'll try to make them clear. I'm still
> confused. You said that sometimes installing/upgrading may break
> things. Does this happen often?

Not if you do it properly, just like you should do in Windows. Or, of
course, if you try alpha/beta software, just like in Windows. Staying
with stable releases you should have fewer problems than with Win
software.

> Do you suggest I refrain from upgrading?

No, just use your common sense. If you use beta stuff, don't complain,
help out by submitting bug reports.

> 1. If I install a program using urpmi, can I upgrade using an rpm from
> the official site (not in urpmi database)?

Absolutely. Download and install per the instructions I gave.

> 2. If I install a program using urpmi, can I upgrade using an tar.gz
> file from the official site?

You *can*, but like I said urpmi won't know you did, so there's a slight
risk. If you do, best to uninstall the tar.gz package first.

> 3. If I install a program using tar.gz, can I upgrade using an rpm?

You *can*, but again, urpmi dosen't have any record of the prior
installation and an oops condition is possible. Upgrade by uninstalling
the tar.gz package first.

> 4. If I install a program using tar.gz, can I upgrade using tar.gz?

Yes, but again uninstall the old version first. Better, just don't use
'em. No need to uninstall before upgrades with urpmi.

> 5. I would like to upgrade my Firefox, but I don't want to screw it up.
> I currently have 1.0 and would like to try 1.0.1. I've only seen the
> tar.gz available. Could you walk me through the upgrading process? I
> don't remember how I installed it (should I know?).

The best way I know to get the latest Firefox rpm is Thac's rpms.
1. Go to:
http://rpm.nyvalls.se/
....and add Thac's 10.1 rpms to your urpmi sources. When done...
2. Do '# urpmi -v mozilla-firefox'. That will install Firefox rpm:
mozilla-firefox-1.0-2.mdk10.1.thac
....pretty much the latest version of Firefox there is. As a bonus, at
the same time urpmi will also painlessly upgrade X to xorg-x11-6.8.2.
Nice! And with the '-v' switch, you'll get to see a good example of
urpmi doing all it's cool auto-upgrading stuff.
3. Say "Thanks Thac!"
4. Enjoy!

> Sorry for these beginner questions. I've got about a thousand tiny
> questions about Linux and these are a few. So again, thank you for your
> help.

A pleasure to be able help someone with a good attitude.
--
Registered Linux user #266531

If there's an RPM file, simply login as root and type:

urpmi filename.rpm

.... and that's it.

You can also use rpm:

rpm -Uvh filename.rpm

.... but that doesn't do the dependency resolution for you.

As far as the Mandrake control center is concerned, simply add a respository
(FTP site) that contains the packages you want to install/update. This is
done by clicking on the software media manager and adding the FTP site as a
software source.

After the site is installed, simply click on the "Install software" button
and select what you want to install from that site.

floresg@gmail.com wrote:

> I've got Mandrake 10.1 installed and I've been having trouble
> installing and upgrading software. I tried uninstalling Opera and
> reinstalling a newer version and now it won't start up. I would like to
> do the same with Open Office (1.1.1 to 1.1.4), but I'm afraid it'll
> stop working. Same with Firefox 1.0.1. What is the proper procedure for
> upgrading? The control center update tool for mandrake doesn't detect
> any of these updates, so I can't upgrade them through there?
> In WinXP, it'd be so easy to install, upgrade, remove, or revert to a
> previous version. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

--
Remove '.nospam' from e-mail address to reply by e-mail

Well, after spending about an hour fixing Mandrake (or rather fixing my
mistakes), I've got everything working again. Opera is fully
functional, Firefox is up to date, I held up on upgrading OpenOffice
until it reaches 2.0 Final (not beta). I would like to thank you for
your clear answers and helpful advice. Cheers.

On 9 Mar 2005 19:04:53 -0800, Gabe wrote:
> Well, after spending about an hour fixing Mandrake (or rather fixing my
> mistakes), I've got everything working again. Opera is fully
> functional, Firefox is up to date, I held up on upgrading OpenOffice
> until it reaches 2.0 Final (not beta). I would like to thank you for
> your clear answers and helpful advice. Cheers.

I *think* you might mean me...if so, thanks for the show of
appreciation. And if you don't mean me, I'm sure somebody out there
appreciates it...
Either way, glad things worked out for you. Lotsa times, you never know
if you helped or not, posters just sorta disappear without bothering to
say thanks for the fix or f*sck you, you trashed my system!

BTW, OpenOffice 2.0 beta is out, stable to follow shortly. Maybe it
will make it in time be included in 10.2.
--
Registered Linux user #266531