scary results after running smartmontools on a MAXTOR STM3320620A - Hardware

This is a discussion on scary results after running smartmontools on a MAXTOR STM3320620A - Hardware ; Hi, ~ I recently bought a MAXTOR STM3320620A (the 300Gb one) that was on sale on compusa for some $88 ~ The first thing I did with it was running smartmontools on it (http:// smartmontools.sourceforge.net) ~ sh-3.1# smartctl -a /dev/hda ...

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  1. scary results after running smartmontools on a MAXTOR STM3320620A

    Hi,
    ~
    I recently bought a MAXTOR STM3320620A (the 300Gb one) that was on
    sale on compusa for some $88
    ~
    The first thing I did with it was running smartmontools on it (http://
    smartmontools.sourceforge.net)
    ~
    sh-3.1# smartctl -a /dev/hda
    smartctl version 5.36 [i686-pc-linux-gnu] Copyright (C) 2002-6 Bruce
    Allen
    Home page is http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net/
    ~
    and I found the results of running truly scary
    ~
    SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 10
    Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds:
    ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME FLAG VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE
    UPDATED WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
    1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate 0x000f 116 100 006 Pre-fail
    Always - 104095144
    3 Spin_Up_Time 0x0003 096 096 000 Pre-fail
    Always - 0
    4 Start_Stop_Count 0x0032 100 100 020 Old_age
    Always - 5
    5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct 0x0033 100 100 036 Pre-fail
    Always - 0
    7 Seek_Error_Rate 0x000f 060 060 030 Pre-fail
    Always - 1001493
    9 Power_On_Hours 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age
    Always - 9
    10 Spin_Retry_Count 0x0013 100 100 097 Pre-fail
    Always - 0
    12 Power_Cycle_Count 0x0032 100 100 020 Old_age
    Always - 9
    187 Unknown_Attribute 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age
    Always - 0
    189 Unknown_Attribute 0x003a 100 100 000 Old_age
    Always - 0
    190 Unknown_Attribute 0x0022 059 057 045 Old_age
    Always - 723517481
    194 Temperature_Celsius 0x0022 041 043 000 Old_age
    Always - 41 (Lifetime Min/Max 0/32)
    195 Hardware_ECC_Recovered 0x001a 068 065 000 Old_age
    Always - 34277342
    197 Current_Pending_Sector 0x0012 100 100 000 Old_age
    Always - 0
    198 Offline_Uncorrectable 0x0010 100 100 000 Old_age
    Offline - 0
    199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count 0x003e 200 200 000 Old_age
    Always - 0
    200 Multi_Zone_Error_Rate 0x0000 100 253 000 Old_age
    Offline - 0
    202 TA_Increase_Count 0x0032 100 253 000 Old_age
    Always - 0
    ~
    I have heard manufactures "mean" something different by the numbers
    What do these numbers actually mean for a MAXTOR?
    ~
    Which other manufacturers give a little meaning to their SMART
    reports?
    ~
    This is probably why they were selling them with such a discount.
    Should I just return the disk?
    ~
    thanks
    lbrtchx


  2. Re: scary results after running smartmontools on a MAXTOR STM3320620A



    On Sun, 24 Jun 2007, lbrtchx@hotmail.com wrote:

    > Hi,
    > ~
    > I recently bought a MAXTOR STM3320620A (the 300Gb one) that was on
    > sale on compusa for some $88
    > ~
    > The first thing I did with it was running smartmontools on it (http://
    > smartmontools.sourceforge.net)
    > ~
    > sh-3.1# smartctl -a /dev/hda
    > smartctl version 5.36 [i686-pc-linux-gnu] Copyright (C) 2002-6 Bruce
    > 9 Power_On_Hours 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age
    > Always - 9


    Looks like this is not a new disk.

    > 10 Spin_Retry_Count 0x0013 100 100 097 Pre-fail
    > Always - 0
    > 12 Power_Cycle_Count 0x0032 100 100 020 Old_age
    > Always - 9


    Once again, does not look like it is new.

    > 195 Hardware_ECC_Recovered 0x001a 068 065 000 Old_age
    > Always - 34277342


    Looks scary, but I don't think this is really an issue. Some disk types
    seem to report very high numbers for this value.

    There are no reallocated sectors reported, and IMHO, this is the key value
    to watch for impending failure.

  3. Re: scary results after running smartmontools on a MAXTOR STM3320620A

    Whoever writes:
    >
    >
    >On Sun, 24 Jun 2007, lbrtchx@hotmail.com wrote:
    >
    >> Hi,
    >> ~
    >> I recently bought a MAXTOR STM3320620A (the 300Gb one) that was on
    >> sale on compusa for some $88
    >> ~
    >> The first thing I did with it was running smartmontools on it (http://
    >> smartmontools.sourceforge.net)
    >> ~
    >> sh-3.1# smartctl -a /dev/hda
    >> smartctl version 5.36 [i686-pc-linux-gnu] Copyright (C) 2002-6 Bruce
    >> 9 Power_On_Hours 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age
    >> Always - 9

    >
    >Looks like this is not a new disk.


    It's 9 power-on hours old.

    >> 10 Spin_Retry_Count 0x0013 100 100 097 Pre-fail
    >> Always - 0
    >> 12 Power_Cycle_Count 0x0032 100 100 020 Old_age
    >> Always - 9

    >
    >Once again, does not look like it is new.


    And he has power cycled the machine 9 times.

    >> 195 Hardware_ECC_Recovered 0x001a 068 065 000 Old_age
    >> Always - 34277342

    >
    >Looks scary, but I don't think this is really an issue. Some disk types
    >seem to report very high numbers for this value.


    The raw numbers are sometimes very strange; in that case look at the
    VALUE and WORST numbers, which should be 100, 200, or 255 at best.

    >There are no reallocated sectors reported, and IMHO, this is the key value
    >to watch for impending failure.


    It's one count that predicts failure. For more information, read the
    following paper:

    @InProceedings{pinheiro+07,
    author = {Eduardo Pinheiro and Wolf-Dietrich Weber and Luiz
    Andr\'e Barroso},
    title = {Failure Trends in a Large Disk Drive Population},
    booktitle = {5th USENIX Conference on File and Storage
    Technologies (FAST '07)},
    OPTpages = {},
    year = {2007},
    month = feb,
    annote = {Reports data on the correlation of various hard disk
    properties (in particular SMART output) with their
    failure probability, based on $>100,000$ drives
    installed at Google. The paper mentions that drive
    model, manufacturer and vintage plays a role, but
    does not give data on model and
    manufacturer. Utilization and temperature did not
    play a big role in failure probability (but the
    drives were not run at really high temperatures (few
    above 45C). From the SMART data, scan errors,
    reallocations, offline reallocations and probational
    counts were significantly correlated with failure
    probability, whereas seek errors, calibration
    retries and spin retries had little
    significance. But on more than half of the failed
    drives, the four strong indicators mentioned above
    had no counts.}
    }

    Followups set to comp.os.linux.hardware.

    - anton
    --
    M. Anton Ertl Some things have to be seen to be believed
    anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at Most things have to be believed to be seen
    http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html

  4. Re: scary results after running smartmontools on a MAXTOR STM3320620A

    Whoever wrote:
    > On Sun, 24 Jun 2007, lbrtchx@hotmail.com wrote:
    >
    >> Hi,
    >> ~
    >> I recently bought a MAXTOR STM3320620A (the 300Gb one) that was on
    >> sale on compusa for some $88
    >> ~
    >> The first thing I did with it was running smartmontools on it
    >> (http:// smartmontools.sourceforge.net)
    >> ~
    >> sh-3.1# smartctl -a /dev/hda
    >> smartctl version 5.36 [i686-pc-linux-gnu] Copyright (C) 2002-6 Bruce
    >> 9 Power_On_Hours 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age
    >> Always - 9

    >
    > Looks like this is not a new disk.
    >
    >> 10 Spin_Retry_Count 0x0013 100 100 097 Pre-fail
    >> Always - 0
    >> 12 Power_Cycle_Count 0x0032 100 100 020 Old_age
    >> Always - 9

    >
    > Once again, does not look like it is new.
    >
    >> 195 Hardware_ECC_Recovered 0x001a 068 065 000 Old_age
    >> Always - 34277342

    >
    > Looks scary, but I don't think this is really an issue. Some disk
    > types seem to report very high numbers for this value.
    >
    > There are no reallocated sectors reported,


    Wrong, pity about

    5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct 0x0033 100 100 036 Pre-fail
    Always - 0

    > and IMHO, this is the key value to watch for impending failure.


    It is indeed, and that many in a new drive is a real problem.



  5. Re: scary results after running smartmontools on a MAXTOR STM3320620A

    "Rod Speed" wrote in message news:5eauk4F36i6okU1@mid.individual.net
    > Whoever wrote:
    > > On Sun, 24 Jun 2007, lbrtchx@hotmail.com wrote:
    > >
    > > > Hi,
    > > > ~
    > > > I recently bought a MAXTOR STM3320620A (the 300Gb one) that was on
    > > > sale on compusa for some $88
    > > > ~
    > > > The first thing I did with it was running smartmontools on it
    > > > (http:// smartmontools.sourceforge.net)
    > > > ~
    > > > sh-3.1# smartctl -a /dev/hda
    > > > smartctl version 5.36 [i686-pc-linux-gnu] Copyright (C) 2002-6 Bruce
    > > > 9 Power_On_Hours 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age Always - 9


    > > Looks like this is not a new disk.


    No, really? What makes you think that.

    > >
    > > > 10 Spin_Retry_Count 0x0013 100 100 097 Pre-fail Always - 0
    > > > 12 Power_Cycle_Count 0x0032 100 100 020 Old_age Always - 9


    > > Once again, does not look like it is new.


    Indeed, once sold it is second hand. Very perceptive of you.

    > >
    > > > 195 Hardware_ECC_Recovered 0x001a 068 065 000 Old_age Always - 34277342

    > >
    > > Looks scary, but I don't think this is really an issue. Some disk types seem to report very high numbers for this value.
    > >
    > > There are no reallocated sectors reported,

    >
    > Wrong, pity about
    >
    > 5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct 0x0033 100 100 036 Pre-fail Always - 0


    Oh, what is wrong with 0 reallocated sectors?

    >
    > > and IMHO, this is the key value to watch for impending failure.


    > It is indeed, and that many in a new drive is a real problem.


    If you say so, Roddles.

  6. Re: scary results after running smartmontools on a MAXTOR STM3320620A



    On Mon, 25 Jun 2007, Anton Ertl wrote:

    > Whoever writes:
    >>
    >>
    >> On Sun, 24 Jun 2007, lbrtchx@hotmail.com wrote:
    >>
    >>> Hi,
    >>> ~
    >>> I recently bought a MAXTOR STM3320620A (the 300Gb one) that was on
    >>> sale on compusa for some $88
    >>> ~
    >>> The first thing I did with it was running smartmontools on it (http://
    >>> smartmontools.sourceforge.net)
    >>> ~
    >>> sh-3.1# smartctl -a /dev/hda
    >>> smartctl version 5.36 [i686-pc-linux-gnu] Copyright (C) 2002-6 Bruce
    >>> 9 Power_On_Hours 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age
    >>> Always - 9

    >>
    >> Looks like this is not a new disk.

    >
    > It's 9 power-on hours old.


    I assume that when the OP said that the FIRST thing he did was to get the
    SMART data, that it did not take 9 hours to do this. Thus, it looks like a
    slightly used disk, in other words, not new. Of course, the OP may also
    have exaggerated about how quickly he got the SMART data from the drive.

    >
    >> There are no reallocated sectors reported, and IMHO, this is the key value
    >> to watch for impending failure.

    >
    > It's one count that predicts failure. For more information, read the
    > following paper:


    Yes, I had already seen that. From the summary:
    > above 45C). From the SMART data, scan errors,
    > reallocations, offline reallocations and probational
    > counts were significantly correlated with failure
    > probability, whereas seek errors, calibration
    > retries and spin retries had little


    Summarizing further, 3 out of 4 main criteria for imminent failure are
    correlated to reallocation.


  7. Re: scary results after running smartmontools on a MAXTOR STM3320620A

    On Jun 25, 8:36 pm, Whoever wrote:
    > Of course, the OP may also have exaggerated about how quickly he got the SMART data from the drive.

    Actually OP didn't exaggerate. The disk is brand new (as I bought it)
    ~
    I wonder why the disk gave these results and I think it might be the
    less than perfect power supply of the box where I was trying it, but I
    don't really know what could have caused it.
    ~
    lbrtchx


  8. Re: scary results after running smartmontools on a MAXTOR STM3320620A

    In article <5eauk4F36i6okU1@mid.individual.net>,
    Rod Speed wrote:
    :Whoever wrote:
    :>
    :> There are no reallocated sectors reported,
    :
    :Wrong, pity about
    :
    : 5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct 0x0033 100 100 036 Pre-fail
    :Always - 0
    :
    :> and IMHO, this is the key value to watch for impending failure.
    :
    :It is indeed, and that many in a new drive is a real problem.

    The raw number on that parameter is zero, and I find it hard to imagine
    how that equates to "that many in a new drive is a real problem." The
    normalized values (current=100, worst=100) indicate the drive is in
    perfect condition (higher is better, and looking at the overall report
    it appears that 100 is "best"). The threshold value (36) just indicates
    how low the normalized value would have to drop before the manufacturer
    would consider the drive to be in a "Pre-fail" condition.

    The following is an excerpt from the smartctl manpage, explaining the
    meaning of these fields

    ========

    Each Attribute has a "Raw" value, printed under the heading
    "RAW_VALUE", and a "Normalized" value printed under the heading
    "VALUE". [Note: smartctl prints these values in base-10.] In the
    example just given, the "Raw Value" for Attribute 12 would be the
    actual number of times that the disk has been power-cycled, for
    example 365 if the disk has been turned on once per day for exactly
    one year. Each vendor uses their own algorithm to convert this "Raw"
    value to a "Normalized" value in the range from 1 to 254. Please keep
    in mind that smartctl only reports the different Attribute types,
    values, and thresholds as read from the device. It does not carry out
    the conversion between "Raw" and "Normalized" values: this is done by
    the disk's firmware.

    The conversion from Raw value to a quantity with physical units is not
    specified by the SMART standard. In most cases, the values printed by
    smartctl are sensible. For example the temperature Attribute generally
    has its raw value equal to the temperature in Celsius. However in some
    cases vendors use unusual conventions. For example the Hitachi disk on
    my laptop reports its power-on hours in minutes, not hours. Some IBM
    disks track three temperatures rather than one, in their raw
    values. And so on.

    Each Attribute also has a Threshold value (whose range is 0 to 255)
    which is printed under the heading "THRESH". If the Normalized value
    is less than or equal to the Threshold value, then the Attribute is
    said to have failed. If the Attribute is a pre-failure Attribute, then
    disk failure is imminent.

    Each Attribute also has a "Worst" value shown under the heading
    "WORST". This is the smallest (closest to failure) value that the disk
    has recorded at any time during its lifetime when SMART was
    enabled. [Note however that some vendors firmware may actually
    increase the "Worst" value for some "rate-type" Attributes.]

    The Attribute table printed out by smartctl also shows the "TYPE" of
    the Attribute. Attributes are one of two possible types: Pre-failure
    or Old age. Pre-failure Attributes are ones which, if less than or
    equal to their threshold values, indicate pending disk failure. Old
    age, or usage Attributes, are ones which indicate end-of-product life
    from old-age or normal aging and wearout, if the Attribute value is
    less than or equal to the threshold. Please note: the fact that an
    Attribute is of type 'Pre-fail' does not mean that your disk is about
    to fail! It only has this meaning if the Attribute's current
    Normalized value is less than or equal to the threshold value.

    If the Attribute's current Normalized value is less than or equal to
    the threshold value, then the "WHEN_FAILED" column will display
    "FAILING_NOW". If not, but the worst recorded value is less than or
    equal to the threshold value, then this column will display
    "In_the_past". If the "WHEN_FAILED" column has no entry (indicated by
    a dash: '-') then this Attribute is OK now (not failing) and has also
    never failed in the past.

    The table column labeled "UPDATED" shows if the SMART Attribute values
    are updated during both normal operation and off-line testing, or only
    during offline testing. The former are labeled "Always" and the latter
    are labeled "Offline".

    So to summarize: the Raw Attribute values are the ones that might have
    a real physical interpretation, such as "Temperature Celsius",
    "Hours", or "Start-Stop Cycles". Each manufacturer converts these,
    using their detailed knowledge of the disk's operations and failure
    modes, to Normalized Attribute values in the range 1-254. The current
    and worst (lowest measured) of these Normalized Attribute values are
    stored on the disk, along with a Threshold value that the manufacturer
    has determined will indicate that the disk is going to fail, or that
    it has exceeded its design age or aging limit. smartctl does not
    calculate any of the Attribute values, thresholds, or types, it merely
    reports them from the SMART data on the device.

    ========

    --
    Bob Nichols AT comcast.net I am "RNichols42"

  9. Re: scary results after running smartmontools on a MAXTOR STM3320620A

    On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 18:33:22 -0700, lbrtchx wrote:

    > On Jun 25, 8:36 pm, Whoever wrote:
    >> Of course, the OP may also have exaggerated about how quickly he got the SMART data from the drive.

    > Actually OP didn't exaggerate. The disk is brand new (as I bought it)
    > ~
    > I wonder why the disk gave these results and I think it might be the
    > less than perfect power supply of the box where I was trying it, but I
    > don't really know what could have caused it.
    > ~
    > lbrtchx


    What is your concern? The smartctl output _looks_ scary to those
    unfamiliar with the software (and IMO is poorly written for just
    that reason). But in reality none of the actual data indicates any
    defect in the drive, as is pointed out by several responses posted
    to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware





  10. Re: scary results after running smartmontools on a MAXTOR STM3320620A

    "Robert Nichols" wrote in message news:f5pun4$itq$1@omega-3a.local
    > In article 5eauk4F36i6okU1@mid.individual.net, Rod Speed wrote:
    > > Whoever wrote:
    > > >
    > > > There are no reallocated sectors reported,

    > >
    > > Wrong, pity about
    > >
    > > 5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct 0x0033 100 100 036 Pre-fail Always - 0
    > >
    > > > and IMHO, this is the key value to watch for impending failure.

    > >
    > > It is indeed, and that many in a new drive is a real problem.


    > The raw number on that parameter is zero, and I find it hard to imagine
    > how that equates to "that many in a new drive is a real problem."


    Roddles never had much luck explaining S.M.A.R.T. logs.

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