Re: sensor identification - Hardware

This is a discussion on Re: sensor identification - Hardware ; ebenZEROONE@verizon.net (Hactar) wrote: >So I've got a question. I set up lm_sensors, and now I can see >temperatures, fan speeds, and voltages. But some of them are not >identified, or IDed with a low confidence. I see: > >eben@pc:~$ sensors ...

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Thread: Re: sensor identification

  1. Re: sensor identification

    ebenZEROONE@verizon.net (Hactar) wrote:
    >So I've got a question. I set up lm_sensors, and now I can see
    >temperatures, fan speeds, and voltages. But some of them are not
    >identified, or IDed with a low confidence. I see:
    >
    >eben@pc:~$ sensors
    >it8716-isa-0290
    >Adapter: ISA adapter
    >VCore: +1.25 V (min = +0.00 V, max = +4.08 V)
    >+3.3V: +3.36 V (min = +0.00 V, max = +4.08 V)
    >+5V: +5.01 V (min = +0.00 V, max = +7.02 V)
    >+12V: +12.03 V (min = +0.00 V, max = +16.32 V)
    >-12V: -12.01 V (min = -0.00 V, max = -16.20 V)
    >V5SB: +5.01 V (min = +0.00 V, max = +7.10 V)
    >VBat: +3.06 V


    The voltages appear to be correct, but max/min values aren't
    very useful. You might want to pull those down to 1%, 5% or 10%,
    of the target voltage, depending on which voltage it is. For
    example the VCore voltage has very tight regulation, but the -12VDC
    voltage does not.

    >CPU Fan: 1344 RPM (min = 0 RPM)
    >Cs front: 2472 RPM (min = 0 RPM)
    >Cs rear: 2755 RPM (min = 0 RPM)


    Those may or may not be accurate. If you have slow speed fans they
    might be. It could just as easily be that they are going twice that
    fast. In particular it would be amazing if the CPU fan is only going
    1344 RPM.

    Also, you might want to set the minimum RPM (where an alarm will be
    indicated) at 1/2 or 2/3 the normal speed. A 0 RPM alarm is worthless.

    >CPU Temp: +29 C (low = -1 C, high = +127 C) sensor = diode
    >temp2: +36 C (low = -1 C, high = +127 C) sensor = thermistor
    >temp3: +25 C (low = -1 C, high = +127 C) sensor = thermistor


    Those do not look particulary accurate. Unless you just turned on
    the machine, the CPU is almost certain to be higher than 30C (86F).

    You might try changing the sensor and see if there is one that gives
    a reasonable value. Something over 40C is probably normal.

    >vid: +1.525 V
    >
    >k8temp-pci-00c3
    >Adapter: PCI adapter
    >temp1: +28 C
    >temp3: +27 C
    >
    >eben@pc:~$ cat /proc/acpi/thermal_zone/THRM/temperature
    >temperature: 40 C
    >
    >The three fans and "CPU temp" I worked out myself. The fans I'm sure
    >about; I have a rheostat on the CPU fan, and the other two I unplugged
    >temporarily. "CPU temp" could be wrong, but it sure acts like the CPU.


    You probably have the right sensors, but perhaps the actual values are
    not correct.

    --
    Floyd L. Davidson
    Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) floyd@apaflo.com

  2. Re: sensor identification

    In article <87abwbdrjt.fld@barrow.com>,
    Floyd L. Davidson wrote:
    > ebenZEROONE@verizon.net (Hactar) wrote:
    > >So I've got a question. I set up lm_sensors, and now I can see
    > >temperatures, fan speeds, and voltages. But some of them are not
    > >identified, or IDed with a low confidence. I see:
    > >
    > >eben@pc:~$ sensors
    > >it8716-isa-0290
    > >Adapter: ISA adapter
    > >VCore: +1.25 V (min = +0.00 V, max = +4.08 V)
    > >+3.3V: +3.36 V (min = +0.00 V, max = +4.08 V)
    > >+5V: +5.01 V (min = +0.00 V, max = +7.02 V)
    > >+12V: +12.03 V (min = +0.00 V, max = +16.32 V)
    > >-12V: -12.01 V (min = -0.00 V, max = -16.20 V)
    > >V5SB: +5.01 V (min = +0.00 V, max = +7.10 V)
    > >VBat: +3.06 V

    >
    > The voltages appear to be correct, but max/min values aren't
    > very useful.


    Oh, I don't rely on those anyhow. I wrote a script that makes graphs of
    what they were over the last two weeks, and look for deviations from
    their nominal values.

    > You might want to pull those down to 1%, 5% or 10%,
    > of the target voltage, depending on which voltage it is. For
    > example the VCore voltage has very tight regulation, but the -12VDC
    > voltage does not.


    Survey says the -5 and -12 are varying degrees of "inaccurate" too. The
    -5V sensor read "0V", so I disabled it. The -12V sensor read -1.48V
    before I rescaled it. I assumeic that it was linear, and that when the
    sensor reports "-1.48V" it actually reads "-12V" (this PS is only a few
    weeks old, and it's a decent one I think -- Raidmax RX-530SS). OTOH, it
    could report "-1.48V" for any voltage below -1.48. I don't know, until
    I have two (different) known points.

    > >CPU Fan: 1344 RPM (min = 0 RPM)
    > >Cs front: 2472 RPM (min = 0 RPM)
    > >Cs rear: 2755 RPM (min = 0 RPM)

    >
    > Those may or may not be accurate. If you have slow speed fans they
    > might be. It could just as easily be that they are going twice that
    > fast. In particular it would be amazing if the CPU fan is only going
    > 1344 RPM.


    Well, it is at the slowest setting. At top speed it's turning about
    2600 RPM. But I notice no additional CPU cooling that way, so I figure
    why have the noise?

    > Also, you might want to set the minimum RPM (where an alarm will be
    > indicated) at 1/2 or 2/3 the normal speed. A 0 RPM alarm is worthless.


    Gkrellm is set up to trigger an warning for the CPU fan at 1200 RPM, and a
    more severe alert at 100 RPM. It actually speaks these alerts through
    Festival (a text-to-speech system).

    > >CPU Temp: +29 C (low = -1 C, high = +127 C) sensor = diode
    > >temp2: +36 C (low = -1 C, high = +127 C) sensor = thermistor
    > >temp3: +25 C (low = -1 C, high = +127 C) sensor = thermistor

    >
    > Those do not look particulary accurate. Unless you just turned on
    > the machine, the CPU is almost certain to be higher than 30C (86F).
    >
    > You might try changing the sensor and see if there is one that gives
    > a reasonable value. Something over 40C is probably normal.


    I do have a big honkin' heatsink:

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835118019

    Could that make a difference?

    "CPU temp" and the two numbers returned by k8temp all look CPU-like
    (judging by their performance over time), but they're all in the same
    ballpark. temp1 is actually a few degrees lower than the other two.

    --
    -eben QebWenE01R@vTerYizUonI.nOetP royalty.mine.nu:81

    Q: What kind of modem did Jimi Hendrix use?
    A: A purple Hayes.

  3. Re: sensor identification

    ebenZEROONE@verizon.net (Hactar) wrote:
    >Floyd L. Davidson wrote:
    >> ebenZEROONE@verizon.net (Hactar) wrote:
    >> >VCore: +1.25 V (min = +0.00 V, max = +4.08 V)
    >> >+3.3V: +3.36 V (min = +0.00 V, max = +4.08 V)
    >> >+5V: +5.01 V (min = +0.00 V, max = +7.02 V)
    >> >+12V: +12.03 V (min = +0.00 V, max = +16.32 V)
    >> >-12V: -12.01 V (min = -0.00 V, max = -16.20 V)
    >> >V5SB: +5.01 V (min = +0.00 V, max = +7.10 V)
    >> >VBat: +3.06 V

    >>
    >> The voltages appear to be correct, but max/min values aren't
    >> very useful.

    >
    >Oh, I don't rely on those anyhow.


    You *can't* rely on them; but if set properly you can and
    probably will...

    >I wrote a script that makes graphs of
    >what they were over the last two weeks, and look for deviations from
    >their nominal values.


    That doesn't do much of anything useful though (even if it is
    very interesting!).

    For examples of some extensive graphing, look up Phil
    Edelbrock's "tellerstats" and also find the extension to it that
    I wrote. Last time I knew tellerstats was included in the
    lm_sensors distribution, and my extensions were listed in the
    "useful links" on their web page. The link is,

    http://web.newsguy.com/floyd_davidson/code/sensors/

    However I haven't looked at it for a couple of years now, so it
    may or may not work out of the box with the current
    distribution.

    >> You might want to pull those down to 1%, 5% or 10%,
    >> of the target voltage, depending on which voltage it is. For
    >> example the VCore voltage has very tight regulation, but the -12VDC
    >> voltage does not.

    >
    >Survey says the -5 and -12 are varying degrees of "inaccurate" too. The
    >-5V sensor read "0V", so I disabled it. The -12V sensor read -1.48V
    >before I rescaled it. I assumeic that it was linear, and that when the
    >sensor reports "-1.48V" it actually reads "-12V" (this PS is only a few
    >weeks old, and it's a decent one I think -- Raidmax RX-530SS). OTOH, it
    >could report "-1.48V" for any voltage below -1.48. I don't know, until
    >I have two (different) known points.


    There may or may not actually be a -5 Volt rail. The -12 Volts
    calculation is indeed open to debate as far as accuracy goes.
    Or, a better way to describe it is that none of the voltage
    measurements are necessarily accurate, and the negative voltage
    readouts are perhaps less so that the positive voltage readouts.

    The formula to calculate the displayed voltage can be changed to
    make any actual variation display as either a large or a small
    variation.

    Another problem is noise on the voltage line, which can cause
    what appears to be out of spec voltages to be indicated.
    Apparently some motherboards are much worse than other in this
    regard (due to not having bypass capacitors right at the sensor
    chip).

    In the end, the most useful configuration is one designed to do
    what you have described: indicate abnormal variations. The
    actual voltage or the exact variation isn't really very
    important, compared to the fact that something has changed.

    For that reason I would recommend using a configuration that
    just sets the voltages to the voltage it is supposed to be,
    graph it over an extended period of time, and then set alarm
    limits at just beyond the largest variations seen in the actual
    data. Then any significant change a year or more later will be
    quite obvious.

    >> >CPU Fan: 1344 RPM (min = 0 RPM)
    >> >Cs front: 2472 RPM (min = 0 RPM)
    >> >Cs rear: 2755 RPM (min = 0 RPM)

    >>
    >> Those may or may not be accurate. If you have slow speed fans they
    >> might be. It could just as easily be that they are going twice that
    >> fast. In particular it would be amazing if the CPU fan is only going
    >> 1344 RPM.

    >
    >Well, it is at the slowest setting. At top speed it's turning about
    >2600 RPM. But I notice no additional CPU cooling that way, so I figure
    >why have the noise?


    Okay, assuming those are all ~2600-2700 RPM fans. Most CPU fans
    are faster, but lots of case fans are 2400-3000 RPM.

    And as long the fan is automatically temperature controlled, it
    might well be that slow. But if it is manually
    controlled... that is not a particularly good method because
    when it does need more cooling it will not be available. If it
    is manually controlled it should be set to the fastest speed
    that would ever be required.

    Another problem with setting fans for very low speeds is that
    when power cycled they may not start. A brand new fan will have
    no problem, but a couple years later the wear on the bearings
    might mean it requires more torque to start than the low speed
    setting provides. It will run fine at the low speed once
    started, but can't start there. Turning the computer off and
    restarting it might result in damage if the fan doesn't start.

    >> Also, you might want to set the minimum RPM (where an alarm will be
    >> indicated) at 1/2 or 2/3 the normal speed. A 0 RPM alarm is worthless.

    >
    >Gkrellm is set up to trigger an warning for the CPU fan at 1200 RPM, and a
    >more severe alert at 100 RPM. It actually speaks these alerts through
    >Festival (a text-to-speech system).


    That should do the job.

    >> >CPU Temp: +29 C (low = -1 C, high = +127 C) sensor = diode
    >> >temp2: +36 C (low = -1 C, high = +127 C) sensor = thermistor
    >> >temp3: +25 C (low = -1 C, high = +127 C) sensor = thermistor

    >>
    >> Those do not look particulary accurate. Unless you just turned on
    >> the machine, the CPU is almost certain to be higher than 30C (86F).
    >>
    >> You might try changing the sensor and see if there is one that gives
    >> a reasonable value. Something over 40C is probably normal.

    >
    >I do have a big honkin' heatsink:
    >
    >http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835118019
    >
    >Could that make a difference?


    Well, lots of things could. Big heat sinks, high volume fans,
    and low power CPU's would all bring it down. But lots of CPU's
    run as high as 55C, and commonly CPU's run 40-50C. And at 30C
    (86F), that CPU is all but cool to the touch.

    >"CPU temp" and the two numbers returned by k8temp all look CPU-like
    >(judging by their performance over time), but they're all in the same
    >ballpark. temp1 is actually a few degrees lower than the other two.


    Hmmm... does your BIOS setup have a monitor program? Lots of
    motherboards can give readouts for the voltages and the
    tempurature sensors when looking at the BIOS setup. That would
    give you an idea what the absolute coolest temperature in normal
    use would be.

    --
    Floyd L. Davidson
    Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) floyd@apaflo.com

  4. Re: sensor identification

    On Fri, 11 May 2007 22:08:01 +0000, Hactar wrote:

    >> >CPU Temp: +29 C (low = -1 C, high = +127 C) sensor = diode
    >> >temp2: +36 C (low = -1 C, high = +127 C) sensor =
    >> >thermistor temp3: +25 C (low = -1 C, high = +127 C)
    >> >sensor = thermistor

    >>
    >> Those do not look particulary accurate. Unless you just turned on the
    >> machine, the CPU is almost certain to be higher than 30C (86F).
    >>
    >> You might try changing the sensor and see if there is one that gives a
    >> reasonable value. Something over 40C is probably normal.


    I'm not clear what the motherboard is here, but I'm using k8temp with my
    Asus M2NE and I get similar temps. When not doing very much (e.g. now)
    the CPU temp is 28C, but it will go up to 50C-ish if I compile or do
    something Boinc related. What I take to be the MB temp hovers around 34C.
    I get a third temp, but can't make any sense of it -- it's about -9C. What
    I assume is the CPU fan is around 1670, and the PSU fan is about 900. The
    bios allows three settings which are effectively minimum, maximum, and
    optimal. The last of these is temperature-controlled by the bios, and
    that's what I have it set at. The third fan reading is zero, which might
    be a cable problem or might be because I have a problem with the sensors
    program.

    when I run sensors -s I get:

    it8716-isa-0290: Can't access procfs/sysfs file for writing;
    Run as root?

    even though I'm root.

    - Richard
    --
    http://www.psr.keele.ac.uk/

  5. Re: sensor identification

    In article ,
    Richard Kimber wrote:
    > On Fri, 11 May 2007 22:08:01 +0000, Hactar wrote:
    >
    > >> >CPU Temp: +29 C (low = -1 C, high = +127 C) sensor = diode
    > >> >temp2: +36 C (low = -1 C, high = +127 C) sensor =
    > >> >thermistor temp3: +25 C (low = -1 C, high = +127 C)
    > >> >sensor = thermistor
    > >>
    > >> Those do not look particulary accurate. Unless you just turned on the
    > >> machine, the CPU is almost certain to be higher than 30C (86F).
    > >>
    > >> You might try changing the sensor and see if there is one that gives a
    > >> reasonable value. Something over 40C is probably normal.

    >
    > I'm not clear what the motherboard is here,


    Mine is M2N-E SLi.

    > but I'm using k8temp with my Asus M2NE and I get similar temps.


    Good, so my numbers aren't unprecedented.

    > When not doing very much (e.g. now) the CPU temp is 28C, but it will go
    > up to 50C-ish if I compile or do something Boinc related.


    Hm, the highest I've seen is around 34C in kernel compiles I guess.

    > What I take to be the MB temp hovers around 34C.


    I guess that's temp2; when I left the case side panel off to see what
    would happen, temp2 went _up_ 4C or so. What they say about worsened
    airflow must be true. It's usually 35C-36C.

    > I get a third temp, but can't make any sense of it -- it's about -9C.


    Sounds bogus. If your computer is air-cooled, it normally can't get
    very far below ambient temperature.

    > What
    > I assume is the CPU fan is around 1670, and the PSU fan is about 900.


    Hey cool, you can read the PSU fan from lm_sensors? How does that show up?

    > The third fan reading is zero, which might
    > be a cable problem or might be because I have a problem with the sensors
    > program.


    On mine, fan1 is the CPU, fan2 is CHA_FAN, and fan3 is PWR_FAN. I think.
    YMMV.

    > when I run sensors -s I get:
    >
    > it8716-isa-0290: Can't access procfs/sysfs file for writing;
    > Run as root?
    >
    > even though I'm root.


    You might try temporarily replacing /etc/sensors.conf with an empty file
    and then try the command again, to see if the file was the problem.

    --
    -eben QebWenE01R@vTerYizUonI.nOetP http://royalty.mine.nu:81

    Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands,
    hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats. -- H.L. Mencken

  6. Re: sensor identification

    On Mon, 14 May 2007 00:08:01 +0000, Hactar wrote:

    >> When not doing very much (e.g. now) the CPU temp is 28C, but it will go
    >> up to 50C-ish if I compile or do something Boinc related.

    >
    > Hm, the highest I've seen is around 34C in kernel compiles I guess.


    I suppose it partly depends on how long the activity lasts for. You
    probably also have better CPU cooling. Mine is just what came installed on
    the MB. Having screwed up a graphics card trying to fit a better cooling
    system, I'm reluctant to mess with the CPU.

    >> I get a third temp, but can't make any sense of it -- it's about -9C.

    >
    > Sounds bogus. If your computer is air-cooled, it normally can't get
    > very far below ambient temperature.


    Indeed. I have ignored it, but it seems rather odd.

    >> What
    >> I assume is the CPU fan is around 1670, and the PSU fan is about 900.

    >
    > Hey cool, you can read the PSU fan from lm_sensors? How does that show up?


    gkrellm seems to pick up this data automatically, but it is also given by
    the sensors command. I have the PSU plugged to the fan3 connector.

    >> The third fan reading is zero, which might
    >> be a cable problem or might be because I have a problem with the sensors
    >> program.

    >
    > On mine, fan1 is the CPU, fan2 is CHA_FAN, and fan3 is PWR_FAN. I think.
    > YMMV.


    Mine's not the SLI, but I'd be surprised if they were significantly
    different in this respect.

    >> when I run sensors -s I get:
    >>
    >> it8716-isa-0290: Can't access procfs/sysfs file for writing;
    >> Run as root?
    >>
    >> even though I'm root.

    >
    > You might try temporarily replacing /etc/sensors.conf with an empty file
    > and then try the command again, to see if the file was the problem.
    >


    Yes, thanks. I replaced the file, and the error went away. However, the
    other issues remain.

    - Richard.
    --
    http://www.psr.keele.ac.uk/

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