Another "What Motherboard Should I Buy" question - Hardware

This is a discussion on Another "What Motherboard Should I Buy" question - Hardware ; Greetings. I'm looking for advice/recommendations on a new mobo and other parts. My current desktop is an Intel WN845D, 2.6 GHz P4, 1 GB of RAM, AGP4 slot. I'm running Mandriva 2007 and I just don't have enough horsepower to ...

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  1. Another "What Motherboard Should I Buy" question

    Greetings.

    I'm looking for advice/recommendations on a new mobo and other parts.
    My current desktop is an Intel WN845D, 2.6 GHz P4, 1 GB of RAM, AGP4
    slot. I'm running Mandriva 2007 and I just don't have enough horsepower
    to run the Beryl desktop.

    As is when I open a new Firefox window, the CPU load jumps to 100% and
    cruises there for several seconds while the window opens. If I've got
    two or three torrents downloading and some other process running in the
    background, I may wait 20 or 30 seconds for the window to open. I
    initially thought this might be because my ATI Radeon 9250 was bogging
    down, but that wouldn't account for the high CPU load.

    At any rate, time to upgrade. I am shooting for something like this:

    Intel Core 2 Duo at about 2.3 GHz
    2 GB RAM
    Nvidia PCI express graphics
    Gigabyte ethernet
    Two SATA hard drives
    A DVD writer (SATA?)
    The usual handful of USB, serial, parallel ports,
    Firewire ports for my video camera (PCI card is okay here)
    And a powersupply that will put up a reliable, honest 500 Watts.
    Oh and a snazzy black, half-tower case that isn't made of some exotic
    material like aluminum and doesn't have windows and lights in it.

    I think that's about it. Proposed budget is around $700, but I am
    somewhat flexible.

    I know I want the Core 2 Duo, but I have no idea what mobo to build this
    around. Anybody have any suggestions about any of this?

    Thanks.

    --
    Mark E. Adams, 2004 -- drop the "dot" to email me.
    http://adamslan.shyper.com -*- Mandriva User# 263042

    CONSIDER: ===========---------,,,,,,,,,............. . . . . .
    There is no sadder sight than a young pessimist.

    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


  2. Re: Another "What Motherboard Should I Buy" question

    On Fri, 20 Apr 2007 20:01:44 -0600, Mark Adams wrote:

    > Greetings.
    >
    > I'm looking for advice/recommendations on a new mobo and other parts. My
    > current desktop is an Intel WN845D, 2.6 GHz P4, 1 GB of RAM, AGP4 slot.
    > I'm running Mandriva 2007 and I just don't have enough horsepower to run
    > the Beryl desktop.
    >
    > As is when I open a new Firefox window, the CPU load jumps to 100% and
    > cruises there for several seconds while the window opens. If I've got
    > two or three torrents downloading and some other process running in the
    > background, I may wait 20 or 30 seconds for the window to open. I
    > initially thought this might be because my ATI Radeon 9250 was bogging
    > down, but that wouldn't account for the high CPU load.
    >
    > At any rate, time to upgrade. I am shooting for something like this:
    >
    > Intel Core 2 Duo at about 2.3 GHz
    > 2 GB RAM
    > Nvidia PCI express graphics
    > Gigabyte ethernet
    > Two SATA hard drives
    > A DVD writer (SATA?)
    > The usual handful of USB, serial, parallel ports, Firewire ports for my
    > video camera (PCI card is okay here) And a powersupply that will put up
    > a reliable, honest 500 Watts. Oh and a snazzy black, half-tower case
    > that isn't made of some exotic material like aluminum and doesn't have
    > windows and lights in it.
    >
    > I think that's about it. Proposed budget is around $700, but I am
    > somewhat flexible.
    >
    > I know I want the Core 2 Duo, but I have no idea what mobo to build this
    > around. Anybody have any suggestions about any of this?
    >
    > Thanks.
    >
    > --
    > Mark E. Adams, 2004 -- drop the "dot" to email me.
    > http://adamslan.shyper.com -*- Mandriva User# 263042
    >
    > CONSIDER: ===========---------,,,,,,,,,............. . . . . . There
    > is no sadder sight than a young pessimist.


    A piece of general advice, make all of your drives SATA including the
    DVD. The Jmicron controller that is used to give the 965 boards a PATA
    port is a piece of junk. It's supported in kernels 2.6.19 and above but
    it has weird behavior unrelated to the driver, I'm talking about thing
    you see in the BIOS. If you use the SATA ports on the Intel ICH8R you'll
    be fine.

    As for motherboards, I have the Abit AB9 Pro, I don't recommend it. Lm
    sensors doesn't work because Abit has their damn uGuru stuff which they
    support in Windows only. I've been happy with MSI, I've built three
    machines using various MSI boards and they've been reliable and I haven't
    had any Linux issues with them. However all of those machines were AMD
    A64s of various flavors, I don't know how well their Core2 boards work.


  3. Re: Another "What Motherboard Should I Buy" question

    On Fri, 20 Apr 2007 20:01:44 -0600, Mark Adams wrote:

    > Greetings.
    >
    > I'm looking for advice/recommendations on a new mobo and other parts.
    > My current desktop is an Intel WN845D, 2.6 GHz P4, 1 GB of RAM, AGP4
    > slot. I'm running Mandriva 2007 and I just don't have enough horsepower
    > to run the Beryl desktop.


    Sure you have enough horsepower. 2.6 GHz P4? Plenty of power. What you
    need is more RAM. I have friends running 3D desktops on 32-bit notebooks
    in the 1.6 to 2.0 GHz range, and all run smoothly.


    > As is when I open a new Firefox window, the CPU load jumps to 100% and
    > cruises there for several seconds while the window opens. If I've got
    > two or three torrents downloading and some other process running in the
    > background, I may wait 20 or 30 seconds for the window to open. I
    > initially thought this might be because my ATI Radeon 9250 was bogging
    > down, but that wouldn't account for the high CPU load.


    Extra RAM will help. Check your swap. If it's getting hit hard or is
    nearly full, then not enough RAM is the problem.

    Also, check the driver for that Radeon card. Is it the one that is
    specifically for that card and enables the 3D rendering or just a
    "generic" one?

    Also, not running 3 torrents at the same time will free up resources. I
    find they can really slow down a system, particularly when the torrent is
    accessing the files on your system. That's why I don't use any.


    > At any rate, time to upgrade. I am shooting for something like this:
    >
    > Intel Core 2 Duo at about 2.3 GHz
    > 2 GB RAM
    > Nvidia PCI express graphics
    > Gigabyte ethernet
    > Two SATA hard drives
    > A DVD writer (SATA?)
    > The usual handful of USB, serial, parallel ports,
    > Firewire ports for my video camera (PCI card is okay here)
    > And a powersupply that will put up a reliable, honest 500 Watts.
    > Oh and a snazzy black, half-tower case that isn't made of some exotic
    > material like aluminum and doesn't have windows and lights in it.


    Looks good. I'd suggest considering MBs only with an nVidia chipset,
    since nVidia has native Linux drivers.

    > I think that's about it. Proposed budget is around $700, but I am
    > somewhat flexible.


    You may need more money. Those Core Duo CPUs are still pricey. And it
    doesn't look like they'll come down in price any time soon.

    I was able to build my AMD 64-bit system for about $500, but I didn't need
    a DVD burner (that spare CD writer sitting in the closet worked just fine)
    or a second SATA drive. An unused IDE one was all that was needed. I only
    use it for storage/archiving anyway. So, it didn't need to be all that
    fast.

    > I know I want the Core 2 Duo, but I have no idea what mobo to build this
    > around. Anybody have any suggestions about any of this?


    Go here and plug in your requirements: http://www.motherboards.org/mobot/
    It'll spit out all the boards that satisfy them.

    Stef

  4. Re: Another "What Motherboard Should I Buy" question

    General Schvantzkoph wrote:
    > On Fri, 20 Apr 2007 20:01:44 -0600, Mark Adams wrote:
    >
    >> Greetings.
    >>
    >> I'm looking for advice/recommendations on a new mobo and other parts. My
    >> current desktop is an Intel WN845D, 2.6 GHz P4, 1 GB of RAM, AGP4 slot.
    >> I'm running Mandriva 2007 and I just don't have enough horsepower to run
    >> the Beryl desktop.
    >>
    >> As is when I open a new Firefox window, the CPU load jumps to 100% and
    >> cruises there for several seconds while the window opens. If I've got
    >> two or three torrents downloading and some other process running in the
    >> background, I may wait 20 or 30 seconds for the window to open. I
    >> initially thought this might be because my ATI Radeon 9250 was bogging
    >> down, but that wouldn't account for the high CPU load.
    >>
    >> At any rate, time to upgrade. I am shooting for something like this:
    >>
    >> Intel Core 2 Duo at about 2.3 GHz
    >> 2 GB RAM
    >> Nvidia PCI express graphics
    >> Gigabyte ethernet
    >> Two SATA hard drives
    >> A DVD writer (SATA?)
    >> The usual handful of USB, serial, parallel ports, Firewire ports for my
    >> video camera (PCI card is okay here) And a powersupply that will put up
    >> a reliable, honest 500 Watts. Oh and a snazzy black, half-tower case
    >> that isn't made of some exotic material like aluminum and doesn't have
    >> windows and lights in it.
    >>
    >> I think that's about it. Proposed budget is around $700, but I am
    >> somewhat flexible.
    >>
    >> I know I want the Core 2 Duo, but I have no idea what mobo to build this
    >> around. Anybody have any suggestions about any of this?
    >>
    >> Thanks.
    >>
    >> --
    >> Mark E. Adams, 2004 -- drop the "dot" to email me.
    >> http://adamslan.shyper.com -*- Mandriva User# 263042
    >>
    >> CONSIDER: ===========---------,,,,,,,,,............. . . . . . There
    >> is no sadder sight than a young pessimist.

    >
    > A piece of general advice, make all of your drives SATA including the
    > DVD. The Jmicron controller that is used to give the 965 boards a PATA
    > port is a piece of junk. It's supported in kernels 2.6.19 and above but
    > it has weird behavior unrelated to the driver, I'm talking about thing
    > you see in the BIOS. If you use the SATA ports on the Intel ICH8R you'll
    > be fine.
    >
    > As for motherboards, I have the Abit AB9 Pro, I don't recommend it. Lm
    > sensors doesn't work because Abit has their damn uGuru stuff which they
    > support in Windows only. I've been happy with MSI, I've built three
    > machines using various MSI boards and they've been reliable and I haven't
    > had any Linux issues with them. However all of those machines were AMD
    > A64s of various flavors, I don't know how well their Core2 boards work.
    >


    So:

    1 - SATA all around
    2 - Stay away from Abit
    3 - MSI may be the way to go, or maybe not.

    Got it. Thanks for the input General. I will bear these things in mind
    and hopefully others will have more to say on the subject.

    BTW, had any experience with Asus mobos?

    Thanks.

    --
    Mark E. Adams, 2004 -- drop the "dot" to email me.
    http://adamslan.shyper.com -*- Mandriva User# 263042

    CONSIDER: ===========---------,,,,,,,,,............. . . . . .
    I think we are in Rats' Alley where the dead men lost their bones.
    -- T.S. Eliot

    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


  5. Re: Another "What Motherboard Should I Buy" question

    Stefan Patric wrote:
    > On Fri, 20 Apr 2007 20:01:44 -0600, Mark Adams wrote:
    >
    >> Greetings.
    >>
    >> I'm looking for advice/recommendations on a new mobo and other parts.
    >> My current desktop is an Intel WN845D, 2.6 GHz P4, 1 GB of RAM, AGP4
    >> slot. I'm running Mandriva 2007 and I just don't have enough horsepower
    >> to run the Beryl desktop.

    >
    > Sure you have enough horsepower. 2.6 GHz P4? Plenty of power. What you
    > need is more RAM. I have friends running 3D desktops on 32-bit notebooks
    > in the 1.6 to 2.0 GHz range, and all run smoothly.
    >


    I may have not been clear about this point -- I can run the 3D eyecandy,
    but it's too slow to be useful. Oh! but I can't get some of the choicer
    effects, like water.

    >
    >> As is when I open a new Firefox window, the CPU load jumps to 100% and
    >> cruises there for several seconds while the window opens. If I've got
    >> two or three torrents downloading and some other process running in the
    >> background, I may wait 20 or 30 seconds for the window to open. I
    >> initially thought this might be because my ATI Radeon 9250 was bogging
    >> down, but that wouldn't account for the high CPU load.

    >
    > Extra RAM will help. Check your swap. If it's getting hit hard or is
    > nearly full, then not enough RAM is the problem.
    >


    Swap isn't taking much of a hit at all. Gkrellm says it's 743M free of
    996M. Pumping Azureus full of downloads will bump that up to something
    more like 50%, but I've never seen it higher.

    > Also, check the driver for that Radeon card. Is it the one that is
    > specifically for that card and enables the 3D rendering or just a
    > "generic" one?


    It's the OS fglrx driver. I think it may be the generic OS Radeon
    driver. It allows 3D direct rendering with AIGLX.

    >
    > Also, not running 3 torrents at the same time will free up resources. I
    > find they can really slow down a system, particularly when the torrent is
    > accessing the files on your system. That's why I don't use any.


    I don't do it regularly, but from time to time I do work the torrents.

    >
    >
    >> At any rate, time to upgrade. I am shooting for something like this:
    >>
    >> Intel Core 2 Duo at about 2.3 GHz
    >> 2 GB RAM
    >> Nvidia PCI express graphics
    >> Gigabyte ethernet
    >> Two SATA hard drives
    >> A DVD writer (SATA?)
    >> The usual handful of USB, serial, parallel ports,
    >> Firewire ports for my video camera (PCI card is okay here)
    >> And a powersupply that will put up a reliable, honest 500 Watts.
    >> Oh and a snazzy black, half-tower case that isn't made of some exotic
    >> material like aluminum and doesn't have windows and lights in it.

    >
    > Looks good. I'd suggest considering MBs only with an nVidia chipset,
    > since nVidia has native Linux drivers.


    How about Intel boards. I'm looking hard at something like the DG965WH.
    The DG965 series come with something like the GMA X3000 onboard
    graphics. Beyond onboards, I'm looking at buying an Nvidia PCIE card.

    >
    >> I think that's about it. Proposed budget is around $700, but I am
    >> somewhat flexible.

    >
    > You may need more money. Those Core Duo CPUs are still pricey. And it
    > doesn't look like they'll come down in price any time soon.


    Preliminary research indicates that I can get pretty close for $700, but
    I'm pretty sure it's going to wind up costing more.

    >
    > I was able to build my AMD 64-bit system for about $500, but I didn't need
    > a DVD burner (that spare CD writer sitting in the closet worked just fine)
    > or a second SATA drive. An unused IDE one was all that was needed. I only
    > use it for storage/archiving anyway. So, it didn't need to be all that
    > fast.
    >
    >> I know I want the Core 2 Duo, but I have no idea what mobo to build this
    >> around. Anybody have any suggestions about any of this?

    >
    > Go here and plug in your requirements: http://www.motherboards.org/mobot/
    > It'll spit out all the boards that satisfy them.


    I can't get anything on core 2 duo boards. 8-\

    >
    > Stef


    Thanks much for the input. I appreciate the wisdom of your experience.

    --
    Mark E. Adams, 2004 -- drop the "dot" to email me.
    http://adamslan.shyper.com -*- Mandriva User# 263042

    CONSIDER: ===========---------,,,,,,,,,............. . . . . .
    Measure twice, cut once.

    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


  6. Re: Another "What Motherboard Should I Buy" question

    Mark Adams wrote:
    > I may have not been clear about this point -- I can run the 3D eyecandy,
    > but it's too slow to be useful. Oh! but I can't get some of the choicer
    > effects, like water.


    Is hardware accelerated OpenGL enabled?

    glxinfo | grep direct

    >>> As is when I open a new Firefox window, the CPU load jumps to 100% and
    >>> cruises there for several seconds while the window opens.


    Check with top which processes(es) are using resources and what resources
    they use.

    > Swap isn't taking much of a hit at all. Gkrellm says it's 743M free of
    > 996M.


    So you are using 256 MB of swap. Is this a number that increases during
    the starting of a new program like firefox? Swap is slow, RAM is fast. If
    you had 256 MB more RAM your system would be faster.

    > Pumping Azureus full of downloads will bump that up to something
    > more like 50%, but I've never seen it higher.


    Then you are using almost 512 MB of swap.

    > It's the OS fglrx driver. I think it may be the generic OS Radeon
    > driver. It allows 3D direct rendering with AIGLX.


    Do you mean the OS (OpenSource) radeon driver from X.org or do you mean
    the binary fglrx driver from ATI?

    regards Henrik
    --
    The address in the header is only to prevent spam. My real address is:
    hc1(at)poolhem.se Examples of addresses which go to spammers:
    root@localhost postmaster@localhost


  7. Re: Another "What Motherboard Should I Buy" question

    Mark Adams writes:
    >Greetings.
    >
    >I'm looking for advice/recommendations on a new mobo and other parts.
    >My current desktop is an Intel WN845D, 2.6 GHz P4, 1 GB of RAM, AGP4
    >slot. I'm running Mandriva 2007 and I just don't have enough horsepower
    >to run the Beryl desktop.


    That sounds strange, you should have enough CPU and RAM for that, and
    I would expect your Radeon 9250 to be enough for Beryl, too. If the
    9250 is the problem, get an AGP X850XT, that is certainly enough (I
    have tested that).

    >As is when I open a new Firefox window, the CPU load jumps to 100% and
    >cruises there for several seconds while the window opens.


    What is jumping to 100%? User time, system time, nice time, wait
    time? And what is memory split?

    For such an operation to take so long, I would guess that you are
    paging to disk, and then much time would be spent in wait time (or
    system time if you are not using DMA).

    If that guess is right, what is consuming all that memory? I am using
    Iceape (Seamonkey) on a 512MB machine without such problems.

    Hmm, another thought strikes me: Maybe you don't get 3D acceleration
    on your 9250; then the 3D is done in software, which might explain the
    slowness your CPU load. Just check that by running

    glxinfo | egrep -A2 "direct rendering|OpenGL vendor"

    On my Radeon 9600 I see:

    direct rendering: Yes
    server glx vendor string: SGI
    server glx version string: 1.2
    --
    OpenGL vendor string: Tungsten Graphics, Inc.
    OpenGL renderer string: Mesa DRI R300 20060815 AGP 8x TCL
    OpenGL version string: 1.3 Mesa 6.5.1

    and your output should be similar (with R200 instead of R300, and some
    other minor differences); please post your output here.

    If you are currently not using 3D acceleration, your problem can be
    solved simply by using the proper drivers for that.

    IMO your current machine should be easily capable of running Firefox
    and Beryl at satisfactory speeds, so a hardware upgrade seems
    unnecessary. A hardware upgrade might happen to kick the software
    into behaving properly, but then it may not, and then you still have
    to solve the software problem that is at the root of that.

    >At any rate, time to upgrade. I am shooting for something like this:
    >
    >Intel Core 2 Duo at about 2.3 GHz
    >2 GB RAM
    >Nvidia PCI express graphics


    Not a good choice if you want to run Beryl: no free 3D drivers.
    Better get an Intel 945G or 965G-based board, or a Radeon up to an
    X850XT (not any X1xxx).

    >Gigabyte ethernet
    >Two SATA hard drives
    >A DVD writer (SATA?)
    >The usual handful of USB, serial, parallel ports,
    >Firewire ports for my video camera (PCI card is okay here)
    >And a powersupply that will put up a reliable, honest 500 Watts.


    Why do you want such a strong power supply? On the machine described
    below, the highest power input we have seen is 190W, and it runs
    nicely on a 400W power supply (and my guess is that 300W would
    suffice).

    >I know I want the Core 2 Duo, but I have no idea what mobo to build this
    >around. Anybody have any suggestions about any of this?


    A machine very similar to what you have described, that works nicely,
    and where I have run Beryl: the ASUS P5LD2 SE board (i945P), a Core 2
    Duo E6600, 2GB RAM, a Radeon X850XT, 1 SATA hard disk, two DVD drives,
    and a separate Relatek8169 Ethernet card (the builtin Realtek 8168B
    (or something) did not work with the Debian kernel we used for
    installation, might be different for Mandriva).

    - anton
    --
    M. Anton Ertl Some things have to be seen to be believed
    anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at Most things have to be believed to be seen
    http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html

  8. Re: Another "What Motherboard Should I Buy" question

    Henrik Carlqvist writes:
    >Mark Adams wrote:
    >> I may have not been clear about this point -- I can run the 3D eyecandy,
    >> but it's too slow to be useful. Oh! but I can't get some of the choicer
    >> effects, like water.

    >
    >Is hardware accelerated OpenGL enabled?
    >
    >glxinfo | grep direct


    Actually that's not a reliable indicator. E.g., I have hardware
    accelerated OpenGL on my machine. If I run glxinfo on another machine
    with DISPLAY set to my machine, it says:

    [b6:~:6400] glxinfo | egrep -A2 "direct rendering|OpenGL vendor"
    direct rendering: No
    server glx vendor string: SGI
    server glx version string: 1.2
    --
    OpenGL vendor string: Tungsten Graphics, Inc.
    OpenGL renderer string: Mesa DRI R300 20060815 AGP 8x TCL
    OpenGL version string: 1.2 (1.3 Mesa 6.5.1)

    glxgears gives me about 1100fps (and that's across ssh and a cable
    modem:-), so the 3D acceleration is actually used, even though there
    is no direct rendering.

    - anton
    --
    M. Anton Ertl Some things have to be seen to be believed
    anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at Most things have to be believed to be seen
    http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html

  9. Re: Another "What Motherboard Should I Buy" question

    Mark Adams writes:
    >Stefan Patric wrote:
    >> Also, check the driver for that Radeon card. Is it the one that is
    >> specifically for that card and enables the 3D rendering or just a
    >> "generic" one?

    >
    >It's the OS fglrx driver. I think it may be the generic OS Radeon
    >driver. It allows 3D direct rendering with AIGLX.


    Well, does it say in /etc/X11/xorg.conf

    Driver "radeon"

    or

    Driver "fglrx"

    or something else? Just "grep Driver /etc/X11/xorg.conf".

    Hmm, a good indicator of 3D acceleration is to run

    glxgears -printfps

    With software 3D, you get something like 200fps, with hardware
    acceleration significantly more.

    You can also post the results of

    egrep -i "glx|drm" /var/log/Xorg.0.log

    On a Mobility Radeon 9200 machine with 3D acceleration this gives:

    (II) Loading sub module "drm"
    (II) LoadModule: "drm"
    (II) Loading /usr/lib/xorg/modules/linux/libdrm.so
    (II) Module drm: vendor="X.Org Foundation"
    (II) LoadModule: "glx"
    (II) Loading /usr/lib/xorg/modules/extensions/libglx.so
    (II) Module glx: vendor="X.Org Foundation"
    (==) AIGLX enabled
    (II) Loading extension GLX
    drmOpenDevice: node name is /dev/dri/card0
    drmOpenDevice: open result is -1, (No such device or address)
    drmOpenDevice: open result is -1, (No such device or address)
    drmOpenDevice: Open failed
    drmOpenByBusid: Searching for BusID pci:0000:00:10.0
    drmOpenDevice: node name is /dev/dri/card0
    drmOpenDevice: open result is 6, (OK)
    drmOpenByBusid: drmOpenMinor returns 6
    drmOpenByBusid: drmGetBusid reports pci:0000:00:10.0
    drmOpenDevice: node name is /dev/dri/card0
    drmOpenDevice: open result is 6, (OK)
    drmOpenDevice: node name is /dev/dri/card0
    drmOpenDevice: open result is 6, (OK)
    drmOpenByBusid: Searching for BusID pci:0000:00:10.0
    drmOpenDevice: node name is /dev/dri/card0
    drmOpenDevice: open result is 6, (OK)
    drmOpenByBusid: drmOpenMinor returns 6
    drmOpenByBusid: drmGetBusid reports pci:0000:00:10.0
    (II) RADEON(0): [drm] DRM interface version 1.2
    (II) RADEON(0): [drm] created "radeon" driver at busid "pci:0000:00:10.0"
    (II) RADEON(0): [drm] added 8192 byte SAREA at 0xd22d5000
    (II) RADEON(0): [drm] mapped SAREA 0xd22d5000 to 0x3001b000
    (II) RADEON(0): [drm] framebuffer handle = 0x98000000
    (II) RADEON(0): [drm] added 1 reserved context for kernel
    (II) RADEON(0): [drm] register handle = 0x90000000
    (II) RADEON(0): [drm] installed DRM signal handler
    (II) RADEON(0): [drm] Added 32 65536 byte vertex/indirect buffers
    (II) RADEON(0): [drm] Mapped 32 vertex/indirect buffers
    (II) RADEON(0): [drm] dma control initialized, using IRQ 48
    (II) RADEON(0): [drm] Initialized kernel GART heap manager, 13369344
    drmOpenDevice: node name is /dev/dri/card0
    drmOpenDevice: open result is 7, (OK)
    drmOpenByBusid: Searching for BusID pci:0000:00:10.0
    drmOpenDevice: node name is /dev/dri/card0
    drmOpenDevice: open result is 7, (OK)
    drmOpenByBusid: drmOpenMinor returns 7
    drmOpenByBusid: drmGetBusid reports pci:0000:00:10.0
    (WW) AIGLX: 3D driver claims to not support visual 0x23
    (WW) AIGLX: 3D driver claims to not support visual 0x24
    (WW) AIGLX: 3D driver claims to not support visual 0x25
    (WW) AIGLX: 3D driver claims to not support visual 0x26
    (WW) AIGLX: 3D driver claims to not support visual 0x27
    (WW) AIGLX: 3D driver claims to not support visual 0x28
    (WW) AIGLX: 3D driver claims to not support visual 0x29
    (WW) AIGLX: 3D driver claims to not support visual 0x2a
    (WW) AIGLX: 3D driver claims to not support visual 0x2b
    (WW) AIGLX: 3D driver claims to not support visual 0x2c
    (WW) AIGLX: 3D driver claims to not support visual 0x2d
    (WW) AIGLX: 3D driver claims to not support visual 0x2e
    (WW) AIGLX: 3D driver claims to not support visual 0x2f
    (WW) AIGLX: 3D driver claims to not support visual 0x30
    (WW) AIGLX: 3D driver claims to not support visual 0x31
    (WW) AIGLX: 3D driver claims to not support visual 0x32
    (II) AIGLX: Loaded and initialized /usr/lib/dri/r200_dri.so
    (II) GLX: Initialized DRI GL provider for screen 0

    - anton
    --
    M. Anton Ertl Some things have to be seen to be believed
    anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at Most things have to be believed to be seen
    http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html

  10. Re: Another "What Motherboard Should I Buy" question

    Henrik Carlqvist wrote:
    > Mark Adams wrote:
    >> I may have not been clear about this point -- I can run the 3D eyecandy,
    >> but it's too slow to be useful. Oh! but I can't get some of the choicer
    >> effects, like water.

    >
    > Is hardware accelerated OpenGL enabled?
    >


    Yes.

    > glxinfo | grep direct
    >
    >>>> As is when I open a new Firefox window, the CPU load jumps to 100% and
    >>>> cruises there for several seconds while the window opens.

    >
    > Check with top which processes(es) are using resources and what resources
    > they use.


    It's mostly the "/etc/X11/X -b -deferglyphs" stuff (I've got a live
    xplanet desktop) in X and java machines (when torrents are active).

    >
    >> Swap isn't taking much of a hit at all. Gkrellm says it's 743M free of
    >> 996M.

    >
    > So you are using 256 MB of swap. Is this a number that increases during
    > the starting of a new program like firefox? Swap is slow, RAM is fast. If
    > you had 256 MB more RAM your system would be faster.


    Okay, but Mem is only used at about 50% (1011M with 503M free). If it's
    only using half my RAM now, would it still allocate only 50% and swap
    less if I increased the installed RAM?

    >
    >> Pumping Azureus full of downloads will bump that up to something
    >> more like 50%, but I've never seen it higher.

    >
    > Then you are using almost 512 MB of swap.
    >


    Pretty much.

    >> It's the OS fglrx driver. I think it may be the generic OS Radeon
    >> driver. It allows 3D direct rendering with AIGLX.

    >
    > Do you mean the OS (OpenSource) radeon driver from X.org or do you mean
    > the binary fglrx driver from ATI?


    I can't get AIGLX to work with the proprietary driver, so I run the OS.

    >
    > regards Henrik


    Thanks Henrick.

    --
    Mark E. Adams, 2004 -- drop the "dot" to email me.
    http://adamslan.shyper.com -*- Mandriva User# 263042

    CONSIDER: ===========---------,,,,,,,,,............. . . . . .
    Genius doesn't work on an assembly line basis. You can't simply say,
    "Today I will be brilliant."
    -- Kirk, "The Ultimate Computer", stardate 4731.3

    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


  11. Re: Another "What Motherboard Should I Buy" question

    Anton Ertl wrote:
    > Mark Adams writes:
    >> Stefan Patric wrote:
    >>> Also, check the driver for that Radeon card. Is it the one that is
    >>> specifically for that card and enables the 3D rendering or just a
    >>> "generic" one?

    >> It's the OS fglrx driver. I think it may be the generic OS Radeon
    >> driver. It allows 3D direct rendering with AIGLX.

    >
    > Well, does it say in /etc/X11/xorg.conf
    >
    > Driver "radeon"
    >
    > or
    >
    > Driver "fglrx"


    Hmm. Looks like something may have changed because I'm get the answer
    "ati". I expected something else.

    # glxinfo
    name of display: :0.0
    libGL warning: 3D driver claims to not support visual 0x4b
    display: :0 screen: 0
    direct rendering: Yes
    server glx vendor string: SGI
    server glx version string: 1.2

    OpenGL vendor string: Tungsten Graphics, Inc.
    OpenGL renderer string: Mesa DRI R200 20060327 AGP 1x x86/MMX/SSE2 TCL
    OpenGL version string: 1.3 Mesa 6.5


    # glxgears
    libGL warning: 3D driver claims to not support visual 0x4b
    1046 frames in 5.0 seconds = 209.169 FPS
    1068 frames in 5.0 seconds = 213.451 FPS
    1069 frames in 5.0 seconds = 213.653 FPS
    1062 frames in 5.0 seconds = 212.399 FPS
    qq1755 frames in 5.0 seconds = 350.905 FPS


    > With software 3D, you get something like 200fps, with hardware
    > acceleration significantly more.


    The information that I was getting with this stuff was a little
    different when I set this stuff up a few months ago IIRC, but I'm not
    sure what has changed. I distinctly recall seeing a line in some of
    this output somewhere that said something like "DirectRendering = yes".
    I don't see that anywhere now.

    I know I can fire up Beryl and get effects that I don't believe would
    run at all without hardware rendering, and the FPS rate was never much
    better when I had confirmed hardware rendering.

    >
    > You can also post the results of
    >
    > egrep -i "glx|drm" /var/log/Xorg.0.log
    >

    egrep -i "glx|drm" /var/log/Xorg.0.log
    (II) LoadModule: "glx"
    (II) Loading /usr/lib/xorg/modules/extensions/libglx.so
    (II) Module glx: vendor="X.Org Foundation"
    (==) AIGLX enabled
    (II) Loading extension GLX
    (II) Loading sub module "drm"
    (II) LoadModule: "drm"
    (II) Loading /usr/lib/xorg/modules/linux/libdrm.so
    (II) Module drm: vendor="X.Org Foundation"
    drmOpenDevice: node name is /dev/dri/card0
    drmOpenDevice: open result is -1, (No such device or address)
    drmOpenDevice: open result is -1, (No such device or address)
    drmOpenDevice: Open failed
    drmOpenByBusid: Searching for BusID pci:0000:01:00.0
    drmOpenDevice: node name is /dev/dri/card0
    drmOpenDevice: open result is 10, (OK)
    drmOpenByBusid: drmOpenMinor returns 10
    drmOpenByBusid: drmGetBusid reports pci:0000:01:00.0
    drmOpenDevice: node name is /dev/dri/card0
    drmOpenDevice: open result is 10, (OK)
    drmOpenDevice: node name is /dev/dri/card0
    drmOpenDevice: open result is 10, (OK)
    drmOpenByBusid: Searching for BusID pci:0000:01:00.0
    drmOpenDevice: node name is /dev/dri/card0
    drmOpenDevice: open result is 10, (OK)
    drmOpenByBusid: drmOpenMinor returns 10
    drmOpenByBusid: drmGetBusid reports pci:0000:01:00.0
    (II) RADEON(0): [drm] DRM interface version 1.2
    (II) RADEON(0): [drm] created "radeon" driver at busid "pci:0000:01:00.0"
    (II) RADEON(0): [drm] added 8192 byte SAREA at 0xf8c4c000
    (II) RADEON(0): [drm] mapped SAREA 0xf8c4c000 to 0xb7add000
    (II) RADEON(0): [drm] framebuffer handle = 0xe8000000
    (II) RADEON(0): [drm] added 1 reserved context for kernel
    (II) RADEON(0): [drm] register handle = 0xff8f0000
    (II) RADEON(0): [drm] installed DRM signal handler
    (II) RADEON(0): [drm] Added 32 65536 byte vertex/indirect buffers
    (II) RADEON(0): [drm] Mapped 32 vertex/indirect buffers
    (II) RADEON(0): [drm] dma control initialized, using IRQ 21
    (II) RADEON(0): [drm] Initialized kernel GART heap manager, 5111808
    (WW) RADEON(0): Option "DisableGLXRootClipping" is not used
    (WW) RADEON(0): Option "AddARGBGLXVisuals" is not used
    drmOpenDevice: node name is /dev/dri/card0
    drmOpenDevice: open result is 11, (OK)
    drmOpenByBusid: Searching for BusID pci:0000:01:00.0
    drmOpenDevice: node name is /dev/dri/card0
    drmOpenDevice: open result is 11, (OK)
    drmOpenByBusid: drmOpenMinor returns 11
    drmOpenByBusid: drmGetBusid reports pci:0000:01:00.0
    (WW) AIGLX: 3D driver claims to not support visual 0x23
    (WW) AIGLX: 3D driver claims to not support visual 0x24
    (WW) AIGLX: 3D driver claims to not support visual 0x25
    (WW) AIGLX: 3D driver claims to not support visual 0x26
    (WW) AIGLX: 3D driver claims to not support visual 0x27
    (WW) AIGLX: 3D driver claims to not support visual 0x28
    (WW) AIGLX: 3D driver claims to not support visual 0x29
    (WW) AIGLX: 3D driver claims to not support visual 0x2a
    (WW) AIGLX: 3D driver claims to not support visual 0x2b
    (WW) AIGLX: 3D driver claims to not support visual 0x2c
    (WW) AIGLX: 3D driver claims to not support visual 0x2d
    (WW) AIGLX: 3D driver claims to not support visual 0x2e
    (WW) AIGLX: 3D driver claims to not support visual 0x2f
    (WW) AIGLX: 3D driver claims to not support visual 0x30
    (WW) AIGLX: 3D driver claims to not support visual 0x31
    (WW) AIGLX: 3D driver claims to not support visual 0x32
    (II) AIGLX: Loaded and initialized /usr/lib/dri/r200_dri.so
    (II) GLX: Initialized DRI GL provider for screen 0

    > - anton


    Thanks anton.

    --
    Mark E. Adams, 2004 -- drop the "dot" to email me.
    http://adamslan.shyper.com -*- Mandriva User# 263042

    CONSIDER: ===========---------,,,,,,,,,............. . . . . .
    Whistler's mother is off her rocker.

    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


  12. Re: Another "What Motherboard Should I Buy" question

    Anton Ertl wrote:
    > Mark Adams writes:
    >> Greetings.
    >>
    >> I'm looking for advice/recommendations on a new mobo and other parts.
    >> My current desktop is an Intel WN845D, 2.6 GHz P4, 1 GB of RAM, AGP4
    >> slot. I'm running Mandriva 2007 and I just don't have enough horsepower
    >> to run the Beryl desktop.

    >
    > That sounds strange, you should have enough CPU and RAM for that, and
    > I would expect your Radeon 9250 to be enough for Beryl, too. If the
    > 9250 is the problem, get an AGP X850XT, that is certainly enough (I
    > have tested that).
    >
    >> As is when I open a new Firefox window, the CPU load jumps to 100% and
    >> cruises there for several seconds while the window opens.

    >
    > What is jumping to 100%? User time, system time, nice time, wait
    > time? And what is memory split?
    >


    User.

    > For such an operation to take so long, I would guess that you are
    > paging to disk, and then much time would be spent in wait time (or
    > system time if you are not using DMA).


    I don't see it paging to disc. It appears to be a matter of just taking
    a long time to render the window(?).

    >
    > If that guess is right, what is consuming all that memory? I am using
    > Iceape (Seamonkey) on a 512MB machine without such problems.
    >
    > Hmm, another thought strikes me: Maybe you don't get 3D acceleration
    > on your 9250; then the 3D is done in software, which might explain the
    > slowness your CPU load. Just check that by running
    >
    > glxinfo | egrep -A2 "direct rendering|OpenGL vendor"
    >


    # glxinfo | egrep -A2 "direct rendering|OpenGL vendor"
    libGL warning: 3D driver claims to not support visual 0x4b
    direct rendering: Yes
    server glx vendor string: SGI
    server glx version string: 1.2
    --
    OpenGL vendor string: Tungsten Graphics, Inc.
    OpenGL renderer string: Mesa DRI R200 20060327 AGP 1x x86/MMX/SSE2 TCL
    OpenGL version string: 1.3 Mesa 6.5

    Ah! There it is. Direct rendering is confirmed.

    > On my Radeon 9600 I see:
    >
    > direct rendering: Yes
    > server glx vendor string: SGI
    > server glx version string: 1.2
    > --
    > OpenGL vendor string: Tungsten Graphics, Inc.
    > OpenGL renderer string: Mesa DRI R300 20060815 AGP 8x TCL
    > OpenGL version string: 1.3 Mesa 6.5.1
    >
    > and your output should be similar (with R200 instead of R300, and some
    > other minor differences); please post your output here.
    >
    > If you are currently not using 3D acceleration, your problem can be
    > solved simply by using the proper drivers for that.
    >
    > IMO your current machine should be easily capable of running Firefox
    > and Beryl at satisfactory speeds, so a hardware upgrade seems
    > unnecessary. A hardware upgrade might happen to kick the software
    > into behaving properly, but then it may not, and then you still have
    > to solve the software problem that is at the root of that.




    >
    >> At any rate, time to upgrade. I am shooting for something like this:
    >>
    >> Intel Core 2 Duo at about 2.3 GHz
    >> 2 GB RAM
    >> Nvidia PCI express graphics

    >
    > Not a good choice if you want to run Beryl: no free 3D drivers.
    > Better get an Intel 945G or 965G-based board, or a Radeon up to an
    > X850XT (not any X1xxx).
    >
    >> Gigabyte ethernet
    >> Two SATA hard drives
    >> A DVD writer (SATA?)
    >> The usual handful of USB, serial, parallel ports,
    >> Firewire ports for my video camera (PCI card is okay here)
    >> And a powersupply that will put up a reliable, honest 500 Watts.

    >
    > Why do you want such a strong power supply? On the machine described
    > below, the highest power input we have seen is 190W, and it runs
    > nicely on a 400W power supply (and my guess is that 300W would
    > suffice).


    I've done well with my current machine for more than five years now, in
    part, thanks to the fact that I bought pretty good stuff to begin with.
    The sun has pretty much set on this architecture though and it's time
    to go PCIE and SATA, etc. I figure the extra power will provide for
    chotchkies that come down the road in the future. Overkill? Yes, but
    not a bad investment as I see it.

    >
    >> I know I want the Core 2 Duo, but I have no idea what mobo to build this
    >> around. Anybody have any suggestions about any of this?

    >
    > A machine very similar to what you have described, that works nicely,
    > and where I have run Beryl: the ASUS P5LD2 SE board (i945P), a Core 2
    > Duo E6600, 2GB RAM, a Radeon X850XT, 1 SATA hard disk, two DVD drives,
    > and a separate Relatek8169 Ethernet card (the builtin Realtek 8168B
    > (or something) did not work with the Debian kernel we used for
    > installation, might be different for Mandriva).
    >


    I appreciate that tip. I like Asus boards and I'll put it on the list,
    though I'm looking mostly at Intel motherboards at the moment.

    > - anton



    --
    Mark E. Adams, 2004 -- drop the "dot" to email me.
    http://adamslan.shyper.com -*- Mandriva User# 263042

    CONSIDER: ===========---------,,,,,,,,,............. . . . . .
    Now I lay me back to sleep.
    The speaker's dull; the subject's deep.
    If he should stop before I wake,
    Give me a nudge for goodness' sake.
    -- Anonymous

    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


  13. Re: Another "What Motherboard Should I Buy" question

    I demand that Mark Adams may or may not have written...

    > Anton Ertl wrote:
    >> Mark Adams writes:
    >>> Stefan Patric wrote:
    >>>> Also, check the driver for that Radeon card. Is it the one that is
    >>>> specifically for that card and enables the 3D rendering or just a
    >>>> "generic" one?
    >>> It's the OS fglrx driver. I think it may be the generic OS Radeon
    >>> driver. It allows 3D direct rendering with AIGLX.


    >> Well, does it say in /etc/X11/xorg.conf
    >> Driver "radeon"
    >> or
    >> Driver "fglrx"


    > Hmm. Looks like something may have changed because I'm get the answer
    > "ati". I expected something else.


    $ man 4 ati

    Basically, it's a wrapper which selects the appropriate X.org-supplied driver
    for ATI hardware.

    > # glxinfo
    > name of display: :0.0
    > libGL warning: 3D driver claims to not support visual 0x4b
    > display: :0 screen: 0
    > direct rendering: Yes

    [snip]
    > I distinctly recall seeing a line in some of this output somewhere that
    > said something like "DirectRendering = yes". I don't see that anywhere now.


    Look again...

    [snip]
    --
    | Darren Salt | linux or ds at | nr. Ashington, | Toon
    | RISC OS, Linux | youmustbejoking,demon,co,uk | Northumberland | Army
    | + Burn less waste. Use less packaging. Waste less. USE FEWER RESOURCES.

    Oh no not again. That Holodeck is always breaking down. - Picard.

  14. Re: Another "What Motherboard Should I Buy" question

    On Fri, 20 Apr 2007 23:51:34 -0600, Mark Adams wrote:

    > General Schvantzkoph wrote:
    >> On Fri, 20 Apr 2007 20:01:44 -0600, Mark Adams wrote:
    >>
    >>> Greetings.
    >>>
    >>> I'm looking for advice/recommendations on a new mobo and other parts.
    >>> My current desktop is an Intel WN845D, 2.6 GHz P4, 1 GB of RAM, AGP4
    >>> slot. I'm running Mandriva 2007 and I just don't have enough
    >>> horsepower to run the Beryl desktop.
    >>>
    >>> As is when I open a new Firefox window, the CPU load jumps to 100% and
    >>> cruises there for several seconds while the window opens. If I've got
    >>> two or three torrents downloading and some other process running in
    >>> the background, I may wait 20 or 30 seconds for the window to open. I
    >>> initially thought this might be because my ATI Radeon 9250 was bogging
    >>> down, but that wouldn't account for the high CPU load.
    >>>
    >>> At any rate, time to upgrade. I am shooting for something like this:
    >>>
    >>> Intel Core 2 Duo at about 2.3 GHz
    >>> 2 GB RAM
    >>> Nvidia PCI express graphics
    >>> Gigabyte ethernet
    >>> Two SATA hard drives
    >>> A DVD writer (SATA?)
    >>> The usual handful of USB, serial, parallel ports, Firewire ports for
    >>> my video camera (PCI card is okay here) And a powersupply that will
    >>> put up a reliable, honest 500 Watts. Oh and a snazzy black, half-tower
    >>> case that isn't made of some exotic material like aluminum and doesn't
    >>> have windows and lights in it.
    >>>
    >>> I think that's about it. Proposed budget is around $700, but I am
    >>> somewhat flexible.
    >>>
    >>> I know I want the Core 2 Duo, but I have no idea what mobo to build
    >>> this around. Anybody have any suggestions about any of this?
    >>>
    >>> Thanks.
    >>>
    >>> --
    >>> Mark E. Adams, 2004 -- drop the "dot" to email me.
    >>> http://adamslan.shyper.com -*- Mandriva User# 263042
    >>>
    >>> CONSIDER: ===========---------,,,,,,,,,............. . . . . .
    >>> There is no sadder sight than a young pessimist.

    >>
    >> A piece of general advice, make all of your drives SATA including the
    >> DVD. The Jmicron controller that is used to give the 965 boards a PATA
    >> port is a piece of junk. It's supported in kernels 2.6.19 and above but
    >> it has weird behavior unrelated to the driver, I'm talking about thing
    >> you see in the BIOS. If you use the SATA ports on the Intel ICH8R
    >> you'll be fine.
    >>
    >> As for motherboards, I have the Abit AB9 Pro, I don't recommend it. Lm
    >> sensors doesn't work because Abit has their damn uGuru stuff which they
    >> support in Windows only. I've been happy with MSI, I've built three
    >> machines using various MSI boards and they've been reliable and I
    >> haven't had any Linux issues with them. However all of those machines
    >> were AMD A64s of various flavors, I don't know how well their Core2
    >> boards work.
    >>
    >>

    > So:
    >
    > 1 - SATA all around
    > 2 - Stay away from Abit
    > 3 - MSI may be the way to go, or maybe not.
    >
    > Got it. Thanks for the input General. I will bear these things in mind
    > and hopefully others will have more to say on the subject.
    >
    > BTW, had any experience with Asus mobos?
    >
    > Thanks.
    >
    > --
    > Mark E. Adams, 2004 -- drop the "dot" to email me.
    > http://adamslan.shyper.com -*- Mandriva User# 263042
    >
    > CONSIDER: ===========---------,,,,,,,,,............. . . . . . I
    > think we are in Rats' Alley where the dead men lost their bones.
    > -- T.S. Eliot


    I've never used Asus, just MSI, ABit, SuperMicro and Intel. SuperMicro
    boards are solid and reliable plus SuperMicro is a Linux friendly
    company. However they specialize in server boards which I don't need
    anymore because dual core chips are good enough for what I do. Also
    SuperMicros don't allow overclocking. The Core2 has a lot of headroom so
    an overclockable board is something you want.

    A great place check out boards is the Newegg website. They have lot's of
    customer reviews which I've found to be very helpful.

  15. Re: Another "What Motherboard Should I Buy" question

    Mark Adams wrote:
    >
    > # glxgears
    > libGL warning: 3D driver claims to not support visual 0x4b
    > 1046 frames in 5.0 seconds = 209.169 FPS
    > 1068 frames in 5.0 seconds = 213.451 FPS
    > 1069 frames in 5.0 seconds = 213.653 FPS
    > 1062 frames in 5.0 seconds = 212.399 FPS
    > qq1755 frames in 5.0 seconds = 350.905 FPS


    Those numbers don't look right. You should be seeing around 10x those
    numbers, given the description of your hardware. (Have a look at
    http://www.free3d.org/ for results from other users of similar hardware
    with the open source drivers.)

    Something is wrong with your configuration, but I have no idea what it
    might be. Everything else you've posted in this thread (except for the
    benchmark numbers) looks fine, AFAICT.

  16. Re: Another "What Motherboard Should I Buy" question

    Mark Adams writes:
    >Anton Ertl wrote:
    >> Mark Adams writes:
    >>> Stefan Patric wrote:
    >>>> Also, check the driver for that Radeon card. Is it the one that is
    >>>> specifically for that card and enables the 3D rendering or just a
    >>>> "generic" one?
    >>> It's the OS fglrx driver. I think it may be the generic OS Radeon
    >>> driver. It allows 3D direct rendering with AIGLX.

    >>
    >> Well, does it say in /etc/X11/xorg.conf
    >>
    >> Driver "radeon"
    >>
    >> or
    >>
    >> Driver "fglrx"

    >
    >Hmm. Looks like something may have changed because I'm get the answer
    >"ati". I expected something else.


    Ok, "ati" is the general free driver for ATI cards, and it should
    select the radeon driver if you have a Radeon card; apparently it
    works for you (it usually did not for me).

    ># glxinfo
    >name of display: :0.0
    >libGL warning: 3D driver claims to not support visual 0x4b


    I don't get this kind of warning. Could that be the reason you don't
    get 3D acceleration (I don't know much about visuals)? What is your
    default visual id (xdpyinfo|grep default)?

    >display: :0 screen: 0
    >direct rendering: Yes
    >server glx vendor string: SGI
    >server glx version string: 1.2
    >
    >OpenGL vendor string: Tungsten Graphics, Inc.
    >OpenGL renderer string: Mesa DRI R200 20060327 AGP 1x x86/MMX/SSE2 TCL
    >OpenGL version string: 1.3 Mesa 6.5


    Looks good.

    ># glxgears
    >libGL warning: 3D driver claims to not support visual 0x4b
    >1046 frames in 5.0 seconds = 209.169 FPS
    >1068 frames in 5.0 seconds = 213.451 FPS
    >1069 frames in 5.0 seconds = 213.653 FPS
    >1062 frames in 5.0 seconds = 212.399 FPS
    >qq1755 frames in 5.0 seconds = 350.905 FPS


    Looks like you get no 3D acceleration, probably because of the issue
    that caused the warning. If you google for that warning, you will
    find that many people have this problem, and it's apparently related
    to the software versions that they are using.

    The strange thing is that, even though I have

    (WW) AIGLX: 3D driver claims to not support visual 0x23

    in /var/log/Xorg.0.log for all my visuals, I don't get the libGL
    warning, and I get a decent speed for glxgears.

    >I distinctly recall seeing a line in some of
    >this output somewhere that said something like "DirectRendering = yes".
    > I don't see that anywhere now.


    It's a little different, but it's there.

    >I know I can fire up Beryl and get effects that I don't believe would
    >run at all without hardware rendering, and the FPS rate was never much
    >better when I had confirmed hardware rendering.


    My laptop (iBook G4 with Mobile Radeon 9200) is much weaker than your
    box, and it gets 2185fps with a few tweaks in the options (and IIRC
    1200fps without any tweaks). So I believe that your 3D rendering is
    done in software; as for effects, as long as they are implemented in
    software, you will see them, but they will be slow.

    >egrep -i "glx|drm" /var/log/Xorg.0.log


    Comparing your output to that of my laptop (where 3D acceleration
    works), I did not notice any signficant differences.

    - anton
    --
    M. Anton Ertl Some things have to be seen to be believed
    anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at Most things have to be believed to be seen
    http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html

  17. Re: Another "What Motherboard Should I Buy" question

    Mark Adams writes:
    >Anton Ertl wrote:
    >> Mark Adams writes:
    >>> As is when I open a new Firefox window, the CPU load jumps to 100% and
    >>> cruises there for several seconds while the window opens.

    >>
    >> What is jumping to 100%? User time, system time, nice time, wait
    >> time? And what is memory split?
    >>

    >
    >User.


    Ok, that points to the unaccelerated 3D as the culprit.

    >I don't see it paging to disc. It appears to be a matter of just taking
    >a long time to render the window(?).


    And that, too.

    >> Hmm, another thought strikes me: Maybe you don't get 3D acceleration
    >> on your 9250; then the 3D is done in software, which might explain the
    >> slowness your CPU load.


    I am now pretty sure that this is the problem.

    >I've done well with my current machine for more than five years now, in
    >part, thanks to the fact that I bought pretty good stuff to begin with.
    > The sun has pretty much set on this architecture though and it's time
    >to go PCIE and SATA, etc. I figure the extra power will provide for
    >chotchkies that come down the road in the future. Overkill? Yes, but
    >not a bad investment as I see it.


    It's not guaranteed to give you accelerated 3D and thus decent
    performance under Beryl, though.

    - anton
    --
    M. Anton Ertl Some things have to be seen to be believed
    anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at Most things have to be believed to be seen
    http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html

  18. Re: Another "What Motherboard Should I Buy" question

    General Schvantzkoph wrote:
    > On Fri, 20 Apr 2007 23:51:34 -0600, Mark Adams wrote:
    >
    >> General Schvantzkoph wrote:
    >>> On Fri, 20 Apr 2007 20:01:44 -0600, Mark Adams wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Greetings.
    >>>>
    >>>> I'm looking for advice/recommendations on a new mobo and other parts.
    >>>> My current desktop is an Intel WN845D, 2.6 GHz P4, 1 GB of RAM, AGP4
    >>>> slot. I'm running Mandriva 2007 and I just don't have enough
    >>>> horsepower to run the Beryl desktop.
    >>>>
    >>>> As is when I open a new Firefox window, the CPU load jumps to 100% and
    >>>> cruises there for several seconds while the window opens. If I've got
    >>>> two or three torrents downloading and some other process running in
    >>>> the background, I may wait 20 or 30 seconds for the window to open. I
    >>>> initially thought this might be because my ATI Radeon 9250 was bogging
    >>>> down, but that wouldn't account for the high CPU load.
    >>>>
    >>>> At any rate, time to upgrade. I am shooting for something like this:
    >>>>
    >>>> Intel Core 2 Duo at about 2.3 GHz
    >>>> 2 GB RAM
    >>>> Nvidia PCI express graphics
    >>>> Gigabyte ethernet
    >>>> Two SATA hard drives
    >>>> A DVD writer (SATA?)
    >>>> The usual handful of USB, serial, parallel ports, Firewire ports for
    >>>> my video camera (PCI card is okay here) And a powersupply that will
    >>>> put up a reliable, honest 500 Watts. Oh and a snazzy black, half-tower
    >>>> case that isn't made of some exotic material like aluminum and doesn't
    >>>> have windows and lights in it.
    >>>>
    >>>> I think that's about it. Proposed budget is around $700, but I am
    >>>> somewhat flexible.
    >>>>
    >>>> I know I want the Core 2 Duo, but I have no idea what mobo to build
    >>>> this around. Anybody have any suggestions about any of this?
    >>>>
    >>>> Thanks.
    >>>>
    >>>> --
    >>>> Mark E. Adams, 2004 -- drop the "dot" to email me.
    >>>> http://adamslan.shyper.com -*- Mandriva User# 263042
    >>>>
    >>>> CONSIDER: ===========---------,,,,,,,,,............. . . . . .
    >>>> There is no sadder sight than a young pessimist.
    >>> A piece of general advice, make all of your drives SATA including the
    >>> DVD. The Jmicron controller that is used to give the 965 boards a PATA
    >>> port is a piece of junk. It's supported in kernels 2.6.19 and above but
    >>> it has weird behavior unrelated to the driver, I'm talking about thing
    >>> you see in the BIOS. If you use the SATA ports on the Intel ICH8R
    >>> you'll be fine.
    >>>
    >>> As for motherboards, I have the Abit AB9 Pro, I don't recommend it. Lm
    >>> sensors doesn't work because Abit has their damn uGuru stuff which they
    >>> support in Windows only. I've been happy with MSI, I've built three
    >>> machines using various MSI boards and they've been reliable and I
    >>> haven't had any Linux issues with them. However all of those machines
    >>> were AMD A64s of various flavors, I don't know how well their Core2
    >>> boards work.
    >>>
    >>>

    >> So:
    >>
    >> 1 - SATA all around
    >> 2 - Stay away from Abit
    >> 3 - MSI may be the way to go, or maybe not.
    >>
    >> Got it. Thanks for the input General. I will bear these things in mind
    >> and hopefully others will have more to say on the subject.
    >>
    >> BTW, had any experience with Asus mobos?
    >>
    >> Thanks.
    >>
    >> --
    >> Mark E. Adams, 2004 -- drop the "dot" to email me.
    >> http://adamslan.shyper.com -*- Mandriva User# 263042
    >>
    >> CONSIDER: ===========---------,,,,,,,,,............. . . . . . I
    >> think we are in Rats' Alley where the dead men lost their bones.
    >> -- T.S. Eliot

    >
    > I've never used Asus, just MSI, ABit, SuperMicro and Intel. SuperMicro
    > boards are solid and reliable plus SuperMicro is a Linux friendly
    > company. However they specialize in server boards which I don't need
    > anymore because dual core chips are good enough for what I do. Also
    > SuperMicros don't allow overclocking. The Core2 has a lot of headroom so
    > an overclockable board is something you want.
    >
    > A great place check out boards is the Newegg website. They have lot's of
    > customer reviews which I've found to be very helpful.


    I'm familiar with NewEgg and have done business with them before. The
    customer reviews seem to be a mixed bag, but carefully read, they can be
    informative.

    Thanks Gen.

    --
    Mark E. Adams, 2004 -- drop the "dot" to email me.
    http://adamslan.shyper.com -*- Mandriva User# 263042

    CONSIDER: ===========---------,,,,,,,,,............. . . . . .
    dark: caldera?
    rcw - that's not a distribution, it's a curse
    Knghtbrd: it's a cursed distribution

    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


  19. Re: Another "What Motherboard Should I Buy" question

    John-Paul Stewart wrote:
    > Mark Adams wrote:
    >>
    >> # glxgears
    >> libGL warning: 3D driver claims to not support visual 0x4b
    >> 1046 frames in 5.0 seconds = 209.169 FPS
    >> 1068 frames in 5.0 seconds = 213.451 FPS
    >> 1069 frames in 5.0 seconds = 213.653 FPS
    >> 1062 frames in 5.0 seconds = 212.399 FPS
    >> qq1755 frames in 5.0 seconds = 350.905 FPS

    >
    > Those numbers don't look right. You should be seeing around 10x those
    > numbers, given the description of your hardware. (Have a look at
    > http://www.free3d.org/ for results from other users of similar hardware
    > with the open source drivers.)
    >
    > Something is wrong with your configuration, but I have no idea what it
    > might be. Everything else you've posted in this thread (except for the
    > benchmark numbers) looks fine, AFAICT.


    I'll have another go at free3d.org, but I was over this and over it on
    the ClubMandriva support forums and the developers there wound up
    pointing fingers at the ATI driver; the open source driver is a better
    hack than the proprietary driver, but it's still not good enough to work
    the hardware properly. Hence my inclination toward letting Nvidia have
    a shot at it.

    Thank you anyway Mr. Stewart.

    --
    Mark E. Adams, 2004 -- drop the "dot" to email me.
    http://adamslan.shyper.com -*- Mandriva User# 263042

    CONSIDER: ===========---------,,,,,,,,,............. . . . . .
    Moneyliness is next to Godliness.
    -- Andries van Dam

    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


  20. Re: Another "What Motherboard Should I Buy" question

    On Sat, 21 Apr 2007 03:14:37 +0000, General Schvantzkoph wrote:


    > As for motherboards, I have the Abit AB9 Pro, I don't recommend it. Lm
    > sensors doesn't work because Abit has their damn uGuru stuff which they
    > support in Windows only.


    Abit may not support Linux, but Linux, later kernels at least, does
    support uGuru.

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