john@wexfordpress.com wrote:
> I have a homebuilt system with two Maxtor drives. Thay are ATA drives
> but are driven by an IDE connection on my motherboard. Here is what
> Slackware Linux says when I boot:
> (snip)
> Uniform Multi-Platform E-IDE driver Revision: 7.00beta4-2.4
> ide: Assuming 33MHz system bus speed for PIO modes; override with
> idebus=xx
> AMD7409: IDE controller at PCI slot 00:07.1
> AMD7409: chipset revision 7
> AMD7409: not 100% native mode: will probe irqs later
> AMD7409: 00:07.1 (rev 07) UDMA66 controller
> ide0: BM-DMA at 0xf000-0xf007, BIOS settings: hdaMA, hdbMA
> ide1: BM-DMA at 0xf008-0xf00f, BIOS settings: hdcMA, hddio
> hda: Maxtor 5T040H4, ATA DISK drive
> hdb: Maxtor 6Y080P0, ATA DISK drive
> hdc: Norcent RWJ-481S, ATAPI CD/DVD-ROM drive
> ide0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7,0x3f6 on irq 14
> ide1 at 0x170-0x177,0x376 on irq 15
> hda: attached ide-disk driver.
> hda: host protected area => 1
> hda: 80043264 sectors (40982 MB) w/2048KiB Cache, CHS=4982/255/63,
> UDMA(66)
> hdb: attached ide-disk driver.
> hdb: host protected area => 1
> hdb: 160086528 sectors (81964 MB) w/7936KiB Cache, CHS=9964/255/63,
> UDMA(66)
>
> Periodically I buy a new drive and replace the oldest one. Tiger direct
> offers both IDE drives and SATA
> drives. Can I buy an SATA drive and just plug it in? If not what else
> do I need to make the SATA drive play?
> Am I better off just buying an IDE drive and going to SATA when I do a
> major systems upgrade (new motherboard etc. )?

IDE will just plug in and work for you. SATA is a whole different thing
and requires a new controller and kernel support. I'd wait on a major
upgrade to switch to SATA.

john@wexfordpress.com wrote:
> I have a homebuilt system with two Maxtor drives. Thay are ATA drives
> but are driven by an IDE connection on my motherboard. Here is what
> Slackware Linux says when I boot:
> (snip)
> Uniform Multi-Platform E-IDE driver Revision: 7.00beta4-2.4
> ide: Assuming 33MHz system bus speed for PIO modes; override with
> idebus=xx
> AMD7409: IDE controller at PCI slot 00:07.1
> AMD7409: chipset revision 7
> AMD7409: not 100% native mode: will probe irqs later
> AMD7409: 00:07.1 (rev 07) UDMA66 controller
> ide0: BM-DMA at 0xf000-0xf007, BIOS settings: hdaMA, hdbMA
> ide1: BM-DMA at 0xf008-0xf00f, BIOS settings: hdcMA, hddio
> hda: Maxtor 5T040H4, ATA DISK drive
> hdb: Maxtor 6Y080P0, ATA DISK drive
> hdc: Norcent RWJ-481S, ATAPI CD/DVD-ROM drive
> ide0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7,0x3f6 on irq 14
> ide1 at 0x170-0x177,0x376 on irq 15
> hda: attached ide-disk driver.
> hda: host protected area => 1
> hda: 80043264 sectors (40982 MB) w/2048KiB Cache, CHS=4982/255/63,
> UDMA(66)
> hdb: attached ide-disk driver.
> hdb: host protected area => 1
> hdb: 160086528 sectors (81964 MB) w/7936KiB Cache, CHS=9964/255/63,
> UDMA(66)
>
> Periodically I buy a new drive and replace the oldest one. Tiger direct
> offers both IDE drives and SATA
> drives. Can I buy an SATA drive and just plug it in? If not what else
> do I need to make the SATA drive play?
> Am I better off just buying an IDE drive and going to SATA when I do a
> major systems upgrade (new motherboard etc. )?
>
> All advice appreciated.
>
I'd buy a sata controller and buy sata drives. Look for Linux raid sata
howto
if you want to take that route. [P]ATA(IDE) is crap. Sata is definitely
an
improvement, if only in the airflow inside the case due to slimmer
cables.
If you can stand the expense (and noise!!!) ultra320 is the way to go
but my tekram ultra160 was $200 and I could not stand the noise of 10k
rpm scsi drives in my tower. Do you want 5400 drives, 7200, 10k or 15k?

If you are deaf ultra320 + 15k is the way to go I think.
If you are the opposite of deaf 5400 sata is the way to go.

john@wexfordpress.com wrote:
> I have a homebuilt system with two Maxtor drives. Thay are ATA drives
> but are driven by an IDE connection on my motherboard.

IDE and ATA are used pretty much interchangeably. Both terms are
referring to the same interface.

[snip]
> Periodically I buy a new drive and replace the oldest one. Tiger direct
> offers both IDE drives and SATA
> drives. Can I buy an SATA drive and just plug it in?

No. You need and IDE/ATA drive.

> If not what else do I need to make the SATA drive play?

A SATA controller. You can find PCI cards with supported SATA controllers.

> Am I better off just buying an IDE drive and going to SATA when I do a
> major systems upgrade (new motherboard etc. )?

That's what I'd do.

There's little (if any) price difference between same-sized IDE and SATA
devices (e.g., one of my favourite vendors is offering 300GB Maxtors for
the same price in either ATA or SATA flavour). So you'd have to add the
cost of the SATA controller to the price of the drive. And that's a
controller that the new motherboard likely wouldn't need when you
upgrade (most new motherboards have plenty of SATA ports on-board).

Choose your new motherboard wisely when you do upgrade, and you'll
likely be able to find one with "legacy" IDE ports to continue using
your existing disks. (IDE will be around for a while yet!)

john@wexfordpress.com wrote:

> I have a homebuilt system with two Maxtor drives. Thay are ATA drives
> but are driven by an IDE connection on my motherboard. Here is what
> Slackware Linux says when I boot:

[snip]

> Periodically I buy a new drive and replace the oldest one. Tiger
> direct offers both IDE drives and SATA
> drives. Can I buy an SATA drive and just plug it in? If not what else
> do I need to make the SATA drive play?

No. You'll need get a SATA compatible controller PCI card.

> Am I better off just buying an IDE drive and going to SATA when I do a
> major systems upgrade (new motherboard etc. )?

I'd say so. SATA is definitely better at the high-end, but for the rest
of us the difference in performance is negligible. IDE is still
supported in most new mobos so you won't lose out with buying IDE now.

On Fri, 12 Jan 2007, Chris wrote:

> john@wexfordpress.com wrote:
>
>> I have a homebuilt system with two Maxtor drives. Thay are ATA drives
>> but are driven by an IDE connection on my motherboard. Here is what
>> Slackware Linux says when I boot:
>
> [snip]
>
>> Periodically I buy a new drive and replace the oldest one. Tiger
>> direct offers both IDE drives and SATA
>> drives. Can I buy an SATA drive and just plug it in? If not what else
>> do I need to make the SATA drive play?
>
> No. You'll need get a SATA compatible controller PCI card.
>
>> Am I better off just buying an IDE drive and going to SATA when I do a
>> major systems upgrade (new motherboard etc. )?
>
> I'd say so. SATA is definitely better at the high-end, but for the rest
> of us the difference in performance is negligible. IDE is still
> supported in most new mobos so you won't lose out with buying IDE now.

It depends what aspect of performance is being discussed. Hard drives have
significant caches and SATA offers the fastest path to get the content of
the cache to the CPU. However, for sustained data, the limiting factor is
the speed at which data can be taken off the platter, not the interface.

If I were to buy a new disk now, I would probably buy SATA + a controller
card. The controller cards are cheap.

Regards,
Simon


>
>
>

On Fri, 12 Jan 2007 11:07:04 -0800, Whoever wrote:
>It depends what aspect of performance is being discussed. Hard drives have
>significant caches and SATA offers the fastest path to get the content of
>the cache to the CPU. However, for sustained data, the limiting factor is

Unless your running DOS and have an "operating system" that can't do it's
own caching, the drive's local cache is mostly irrelevent. It's primary
remaining function is to allow buffering of an entire track and hold data
before the OS has even requested it. For the most part, the performance
that is the limiting factor is the data rate to/from the platters. It
doesn't help if you can read the buffer at 300MB/s if you can only read the
platters at 40MB/s.

AZ Nomad wrote:
> It doesn't help if you can read the buffer at 300MB/s if you can only read the
> platters at 40MB/s.

It's also worth noting the standard 32-bit/33MHz PCI bus tops out around
130MB/s so that maximum transfer speed from the buffer is really
meaningless.

Another issue is the power supply. I've a bunch of SATA drives with a
power connector I'd not noticed before in various machines, and I never
really thought much of it.

My desktop also has SATA drives, and one failed. So I thought to use one
of those other drives I'd floating around.

It didn't work. The problem was that the drive in my desktop uses a
"standard" power connector, as opposed to those other SATA drives (ie. the
Seagates that go up to 750G). So I had to order a particular drive for
the desktop:

http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/def...spx?EDC=631515

I mention this because it's a second variable. Even if one adds a SATA
controller, one still needs to be sure that the power supply provides the
proper connectors for the disks being used.

- Andrew

Andrew Gideon wrote:

>
> Another issue is the power supply. I've a bunch of SATA drives with a
> power connector I'd not noticed before in various machines, and I never
> really thought much of it.
>
> My desktop also has SATA drives, and one failed. So I thought to use one
> of those other drives I'd floating around.
>
> It didn't work. The problem was that the drive in my desktop uses a
> "standard" power connector, as opposed to those other SATA drives (ie. the
> Seagates that go up to 750G). So I had to order a particular drive for
> the desktop:
>
> http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/def...spx?EDC=631515
>
> I mention this because it's a second variable. Even if one adds a SATA
> controller, one still needs to be sure that the power supply provides the
> proper connectors for the disks being used.
>
> - Andrew

Hi,

Would it annoy you to now mention that you can get SATA-power to molex
converter leads ;->

Like these:

http://www.maplin.co.uk/images/full/a12az.jpg

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?...=SEO&U=strat15

It's not an issue...

For what it's worth you can also get devices to convert a PATA disk to SATA
interface (though not so easily the other way around).

Cheers

Tim

On Sun, 14 Jan 2007, Tim S wrote:

> Andrew Gideon wrote:
>
>>
>> Another issue is the power supply. I've a bunch of SATA drives with a
>> power connector I'd not noticed before in various machines, and I never
>> really thought much of it.
>>
>> My desktop also has SATA drives, and one failed. So I thought to use one
>> of those other drives I'd floating around.
>>
>> It didn't work. The problem was that the drive in my desktop uses a
>> "standard" power connector, as opposed to those other SATA drives (ie. the
>> Seagates that go up to 750G). So I had to order a particular drive for
>> the desktop:
>>
>> http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/def...spx?EDC=631515
>>
>> I mention this because it's a second variable. Even if one adds a SATA
>> controller, one still needs to be sure that the power supply provides the
>> proper connectors for the disks being used.
>>
>> - Andrew
>
> Hi,
>
> Would it annoy you to now mention that you can get SATA-power to molex
> converter leads ;->

Most retail packaged SATA drives include such a lead.

On Sun, 14 Jan 2007 11:38:36 -0800, Whoever wrote:


>>
>> Would it annoy you to now mention that you can get SATA-power to molex
>> converter leads ;->

Nope. I'm glad. And now I'll know for next time.

>
> Most retail packaged SATA drives include such a lead.

I must be avoiding "retail packaged" somehow as I've not seen this
previously.

Thanks...

Andrew

On Sun, 14 Jan 2007 00:00:26 -0500, Andrew Gideon wrote:
>I mention this because it's a second variable. Even if one adds a SATA
>controller, one still needs to be sure that the power supply provides the
>proper connectors for the disks being used.

PATA<>SATA power adapters are trivially easy to acquire. Most motherboards
with SATA toss in a pile of them. I've a drawer with at least ten of them.

On Fri, 12 Jan 2007 11:33:31 +0000, Chris wrote:

>john@wexfordpress.com wrote:

>> I have a homebuilt system with two Maxtor drives. Thay are ATA drives
>> but are driven by an IDE connection on my motherboard. Here is what
>> Slackware Linux says when I boot:

.. . .

>> Periodically I buy a new drive and replace the oldest one. Tiger
>> direct offers both IDE drives and SATA
>> drives. Can I buy an SATA drive and just plug it in? If not what else
>> do I need to make the SATA drive play?

>No. You'll need get a SATA compatible controller PCI card.

>> Am I better off just buying an IDE drive and going to SATA when I do a
>> major systems upgrade (new motherboard etc. )?

>I'd say so. SATA is definitely better at the high-end, but for the rest
>of us the difference in performance is negligible. IDE is still
>supported in most new mobos so you won't lose out with buying IDE now.

I would look at it in terms of life expectancy. If you expect the
drive to last through to your next motherboard, and the SATA
controller card is cheap enough, then by all means get a SATA drive.
But I expect that if you look at ATA drives, the prices will be more
attractive anyway, and an adapter for ATA to SATA controller is
probably even cheaper.

As for the ATA support on new motherboards, I am buying one right
now, and currently they only support 2 ATA drives. There are 4
SATA plugs. Now, if you only have 1 DVD drive and 1 ATA drive,
then the 1 controller line is enough. But say you end up with a
3rd ATA drive to put on that line, then you will end up having to
use an adapter anyway. Experience has shown that not all CD/DVD
drives are intercompatible. I have kept one of my earliest CD-RW
drives on one of my computers despite the fact that it also has
a double layer DVD writer, just in case I run into an
incompatability with one of my older discs. Someday when I finish
transfering my older CD discs to DVD, I will get rid of that drive.
But by then I might want to keep a DVD writer on a box along with
an HD-DVD or Blueray drive for the same reason.

I don't know if that affects your choice, but you might find
it worth thinking about.

On another of my computers I have a 5.25" floppy drive along
with the 3.5" floppy. I still need 5.25". I hope they have
proper support for 2 floppies on my next motherboard. It is
an area that has probably been ignored for years already. That
box has shown strange interactions between a DVD writer and the
floppies already. I expect the BIOS writers might not even
be testing the interrupt interactions to see if the floppies
actually work.

Anyway, have fun!

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