Acer AL2216W under Linux ? - Hardware

This is a discussion on Acer AL2216W under Linux ? - Hardware ; Hello, I'm using Debian (with X.org), and I would like to buy a LCD screen. I have seen this screen: http://us.acer.com/acereuro/page9.do...crc=2221579329 .. (Acer AL2216), and my graphic card is an Nvidia Geforce 4MX (128MB) (i use mainly proprietary drivers) Does ...

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Thread: Acer AL2216W under Linux ?

  1. Acer AL2216W under Linux ?

    Hello,

    I'm using Debian (with X.org), and I would like to buy a LCD screen.

    I have seen this screen:
    http://us.acer.com/acereuro/page9.do...crc=2221579329
    .. (Acer AL2216), and my graphic card is an Nvidia Geforce 4MX (128MB) (i
    use mainly proprietary drivers)


    Does anyone have already try to use this screen with a similar graphic
    card under Linux please ? If yes, could i know what resolution do you
    success to use ?

    Thanks.
    (and, of course, if anyone know any _good_ screen working well under
    Linux (CRT or LCD, i mainly use computer for text, but I'm watching
    movies/playing game a bit too) with a price under $400 USD, it would be
    nice to answer please )

  2. Re: Acer AL2216W under Linux ?

    On Sat, 23 Dec 2006 23:24:07 +0100, Nanar Duff wrote:

    > Hello,
    >
    > I'm using Debian (with X.org), and I would like to buy a LCD screen.
    >
    > I have seen this screen:
    > http://us.acer.com/acereuro/page9.do...crc=2221579329
    > . (Acer AL2216), and my graphic card is an Nvidia Geforce 4MX (128MB) (i
    > use mainly proprietary drivers)
    >
    >
    > Does anyone have already try to use this screen with a similar graphic
    > card under Linux please ? If yes, could i know what resolution do you
    > success to use ?
    >
    > Thanks.
    > (and, of course, if anyone know any _good_ screen working well under
    > Linux (CRT or LCD, i mainly use computer for text, but I'm watching
    > movies/playing game a bit too) with a price under $400 USD, it would be
    > nice to answer please )


    I don't understand why you think there would be a problem. I have used a
    wide variety of CRT and LCD monitors on a number of Linux distributions,
    and I've never had a problem.


  3. Re: Acer AL2216W under Linux ?

    ray a écrit :
    > I don't understand why you think there would be a problem. I have used a
    > wide variety of CRT and LCD monitors on a number of Linux distributions,
    > and I've never had a problem.
    >


    Well, a little Google search answers me:
    http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=77259 , but the answers
    of people to the thread seems to reassure me, but next i find:
    http://translate.google.com/translat...lr%3D%26sa%3DN

    (huh, google French to English translation, but I'm French So it
    seems that some people don't success to use the best resolution with
    this screen. So, i would like to know if other people have difficulties
    with this screen under Linux, or if some people use this screen without
    problems under Linux

    Thanks.

  4. Re: Acer AL2216W under Linux ?

    Nanar Duff > wrote:
    > seems that some people don't success to use the best resolution with
    > this screen. So, i would like to know if other people have difficulties
    > with this screen under Linux, or if some people use this screen without
    > problems under Linux


    The problem lies not with the screen, but with the graphics card. You
    need to ensure that your graphics card can support the native resolution
    of the LCD.

  5. Re: Acer AL2216W under Linux ?

    John-Paul Stewart wrote:
    > The problem lies not with the screen, but with the graphics card. You
    > need to ensure that your graphics card can support the native resolution
    > of the LCD.



    Huh, ok, thanks for the information, but do you know how could i know
    whether my graphic card support the native resolution of the LCD please
    (i have a NVIDIA Geforce 4MX AGP8X 128Mb and i use proprietary driver) ?


    Thanks.

  6. Re: Acer AL2216W under Linux ?

    Nanar Duff > wrote:
    > John-Paul Stewart wrote:
    >> The problem lies not with the screen, but with the graphics card. You
    >> need to ensure that your graphics card can support the native resolution
    >> of the LCD.

    >
    >
    > Huh, ok, thanks for the information, but do you know how could i know
    > whether my graphic card support the native resolution of the LCD please
    > (i have a NVIDIA Geforce 4MX AGP8X 128Mb and i use proprietary driver) ?


    Graphics card manufacturers usually publish a chart of supported
    resolution and refresh rates. A quick look didn't turn up anything on
    the nVidia website, but you should be able to find it there. Or perhaps
    in the printed documentation that came with the card.

    It might be in the documentation that from the proprietary driver
    package, too.

  7. Re: Acer AL2216W under Linux ?

    John-Paul Stewart writes:
    >Nanar Duff > wrote:
    >> John-Paul Stewart wrote:
    >>> The problem lies not with the screen, but with the graphics card. You
    >>> need to ensure that your graphics card can support the native resolution
    >>> of the LCD.

    >>
    >>
    >> Huh, ok, thanks for the information, but do you know how could i know
    >> whether my graphic card support the native resolution of the LCD please
    >> (i have a NVIDIA Geforce 4MX AGP8X 128Mb and i use proprietary driver) ?

    >
    >Graphics card manufacturers usually publish a chart of supported
    >resolution and refresh rates.


    Which does not mean much for use with X. Nowadays, X talks to the
    monitor via DDC, and the monitor tells it in an EDID record what modes
    it supports; X then matches that with the other stuff it knows (e.g.,
    the stuff specified in the xorg.conf file) and selects a proper mode.
    And even if that (and all else) fails, you can still make X create any
    mode by specifying that mode in the xorg.conf file. The only limit
    here is whether the graphics card supports a high-enough dot clock.
    Ah, I see that some wide screen
    resolutions cannot be expressed with EDID, but 1680x1050 should be as
    far as I can see.

    I would expect the Gforce 4MX to support a high-enough dot clock for
    1680x1050@60Hz easily on the VGA connector. The DVI connector (if the
    card has one at all) might be a problem for cards of this generation
    (e.g. a Matrox G450 is limited to 1280x1024 on DVI with standard
    modes).

    Using analog transmission (VGA) you may get flickering or other
    annoying issues, so if analog is not good enough and the Gforce 4MX
    DVI does exist or does not cut it, replace it with a card with decent
    DVI output (I have good experiences with Radeon 7000 cards on
    1600x1200 displays).

    - anton
    --
    M. Anton Ertl Some things have to be seen to be believed
    anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at Most things have to be believed to be seen
    http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html

  8. Re: Acer AL2216W under Linux ?

    anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) wrote:
    > a Matrox G450 is limited to 1280x1024 on DVI with standard modes.


    I have a vauge memory of that even though this limitation is specified by
    Matrox themselves the limitation is not in hardware but in the Windows
    drivers only.

    Some year ago at my job we bought a digital KVM switch for a windows user
    with a matrox card and a DELL 1600x1200 resolution monitor. The KVM switch
    had DVI connectors for the monitor cables. We was hoping that this digital
    KVM switch would give better image quality than analog KVM switches that
    often give shadows in the image. Unfortunately with the KVM switch the
    user was only able to get 1280x1024 as he now was using the DVI port.

    I then did some searching on the Matrox web site in the support forums.
    There I found, if I remember right, that the 1280x1024 was a limitation of
    the Windows driver and that there was no such limitation with X.org.
    However, I think that this card was a Matrox G550, so this might not apply
    to G450. Unfortunately it seems as if Matrox has removed their support
    forum so I am now unable to find the text again.

    regards Henrik
    --
    The address in the header is only to prevent spam. My real address is:
    hc8(at)uthyres.com Examples of addresses which go to spammers:
    root@variousus.net root@localhost


  9. Re: Acer AL2216W under Linux ?

    Henrik Carlqvist writes:
    >anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) wrote:
    >> a Matrox G450 is limited to 1280x1024 on DVI with standard modes.

    >
    >I have a vauge memory of that even though this limitation is specified by
    >Matrox themselves the limitation is not in hardware but in the Windows
    >drivers only.


    It is in the hardware. We drove it with X with a standard 1600x1200
    mode, producing a proper picture through VGA, but got only "no signal"
    or somesuch when we connected the monitor through DVI. 1280x1024
    worked fine even through DVI. This thouroughly confused us, as we had
    no idea that there would be such a limitation. Eventually we looked
    in the manual and found somewhere pretty well hidden that DVI is
    limited to 1280x1024. I theorized that this is due to limited
    bandwidth, and constructed a 1600x1200@52Hz mode that used the same
    bandwidth as a standard 1280x1024@60Hz mode, and got it to work with
    the monitor in this way.

    Another disadvantage of the G450 was that it needed a proprietary
    driver to achieve such resolutions, the free X driver was only good
    for lower resolutions (this may have changed with newer X versions).

    We had much better experience with the Radeon 7000 (proper support for
    1600x1200 and 1920x1200 on DVI, with standard modes, with free
    drivers, in the same old X version), and it's cheaper as well. No
    reason to buy the G450.

    For details on these issues, read


    - anton
    --
    M. Anton Ertl Some things have to be seen to be believed
    anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at Most things have to be believed to be seen
    http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html

  10. Re: Acer AL2216W under Linux ?

    Anton Ertl wrote:
    > Which does not mean much for use with X. Nowadays, X talks to the
    > monitor via DDC, and the monitor tells it in an EDID record what modes
    > it supports; X then matches that with the other stuff it knows (e.g.,
    > the stuff specified in the xorg.conf file) and selects a proper mode.
    > And even if that (and all else) fails, you can still make X create any
    > mode by specifying that mode in the xorg.conf file. The only limit
    > here is whether the graphics card supports a high-enough dot clock.
    > Ah, I see that some wide screen
    > resolutions cannot be expressed with EDID, but 1680x1050 should be as
    > far as I can see.
    >
    > I would expect the Gforce 4MX to support a high-enough dot clock for
    > 1680x1050@60Hz easily on the VGA connector. The DVI connector (if the
    > card has one at all) might be a problem for cards of this generation
    > (e.g. a Matrox G450 is limited to 1280x1024 on DVI with standard
    > modes).


    Ok, thanks for the information. Well, for knowing what resolution modes
    are theoretically supported i tried to generate a Modeline with this
    tool: http://xtiming.sourceforge.net/ . I fill the form with this:
    http://www.acer.fr/acereuro/page9.do...e&crc=81774165
    for the "Horizontal Sync Rate" (30-82 kHz), the "Refresh Rate" (56-76
    Hz) fields in "Monitor Configuration), and for the "Visible Resolution"
    (1680x1050), "Refresh Rate" (60 Hz), "Constrain Aspect Ratio" (16/10)
    fields in "Basic Configuration". But i dont know at all what should i
    use as value for the "Dot Clock Frequency" fields in "Basic
    Configuration" and the "Monitor Configuration". With the keyword EDID, i
    get this tool: http://john.fremlin.de/programs/linux/read-edid/ and i
    generate this (with my old C50 Monitor and my Geforce 4MX):

    ####################
    debian:/tmp# get-edid > /tmp/edid
    get-edid: get-edid version 1.4.1

    Performing real mode VBE call
    Interrupt 0x10 ax=0x4f00 bx=0x0 cx=0x0
    Function supported
    Call successful

    VBE version 300
    VBE string at 0x11110 "WinFast VGA BIOS."

    VBE/DDC service about to be called
    Report DDC capabilities

    Performing real mode VBE call
    Interrupt 0x10 ax=0x4f15 bx=0x0 cx=0x0
    Function supported
    Call successful

    Monitor and video card combination does not support DDC1 transfers
    Monitor and video card combination supports DDC2 transfers
    0 seconds per 128 byte EDID block transfer
    Screen is not blanked during DDC transfer

    Reading next EDID block

    VBE/DDC service about to be called
    Read EDID

    Performing real mode VBE call
    Interrupt 0x10 ax=0x4f15 bx=0x1 cx=0x0
    Function supported
    Call successful

    debian:/tmp# parse-edid /tmp/edid
    parse-edid: parse-edid version 1.4.1
    parse-edid: EDID checksum passed.

    # EDID version 1 revision 1
    Section "Monitor"
    # Block type: 2:0 3:fc
    Identifier "IBM C50"
    VendorName "IBM"
    ModelName "IBM C50"
    # Block type: 2:0 3:fc
    # Block type: 2:0 3:fd
    HorizSync 30-54
    VertRefresh 50-120
    # Max dot clock (video bandwidth) 70 MHz
    # Block type: 2:0 3:ff
    # DPMS capabilities: Active off:yes Suspend:yes Standby:yes

    Mode "800x600" # vfreq 85.061Hz, hfreq 53.674kHz
    DotClock 56.250000
    HTimings 800 832 896 1048
    VTimings 600 601 604 631
    Flags "+HSync" "+VSync"
    EndMode
    # Block type: 2:0 3:fc
    # Block type: 2:0 3:fd
    # Block type: 2:0 3:ff
    EndSection
    debian:/tmp#
    #############################

    The only possible value that i get with this is "70 MHz", but is this
    the "Max dot clock" for my screen or for my graphic card ? Anyway, i
    tried to fill the form with 70, and i get this modeline:

    ##################################
    Modeline "1680x1050@60" 154.20 1680 1712 2296 2328 1050 1071 1081 1103
    ##################################

    But the "Dot Clock Frequency" field is automatically set to 154.19 MHz !
    So could anyone answer how to fill this field please ? I find the same
    value with this method:
    http://phys-ds.physics.lsa.umich.edu...EADME.1.0-5328
    (70 MHz). Should i write an e-mail to NVIDIA support ?

    >
    > Using analog transmission (VGA) you may get flickering or other
    > annoying issues, so if analog is not good enough and the Gforce 4MX
    > DVI does exist or does not cut it, replace it with a card with decent
    > DVI output (I have good experiences with Radeon 7000 cards on
    > 1600x1200 displays).


    Yes, i know that VGA is ugly, but i really don't want to buy an other
    Graphic card and i chose this LCD screen because it seems that it only
    has a VGA input who is VERY good:
    http://www.lesnumeriques.com/article-203-1386-38.html . Its in French
    but the translation of the second paragraph is:

    "Such a price can leave dreamer and we could be afraid of latent
    defects. More than of real defects, we can speak all the same about
    savings realized everywhere where it was possible. For example, the foot
    is not adjustable in height, the screen does not tip over in
    mode(fashion) pivot, plastics used(employed) for the hull(shell) are
    rather rustic, there is either hub no USB, or map-light, and there is
    even no numeric(digital) interface. Not of DVI thus, only a grip VGA -
    analogical - in entrance(entry). In the practice that does not change
    much. Neither colours, nor ability to react of the screen are affected.
    On the other hand, we raised(found) a recurring problem of
    transformation of the signal, which returns the a little bit vague image
    to every starting up of the computer. Nothing grave however, it is
    enough to press on the button "Auto" to the left so that everything goes
    into the order." (its a ugly translation, but it has been down by a bot.
    I thinks its understable anyway no ?)


  11. Re: Acer AL2216W under Linux ?

    Nanar Duff <""dnanar\"@$_SPAM_$gmail.com"> writes:
    >Ok, thanks for the information. Well, for knowing what resolution modes
    >are theoretically supported i tried to generate a Modeline with this
    >tool: http://xtiming.sourceforge.net/ . I fill the form with this:
    >http://www.acer.fr/acereuro/page9.do...e&crc=81774165
    > for the "Horizontal Sync Rate" (30-82 kHz), the "Refresh Rate" (56-76
    >Hz) fields in "Monitor Configuration), and for the "Visible Resolution"
    >(1680x1050), "Refresh Rate" (60 Hz), "Constrain Aspect Ratio" (16/10)
    >fields in "Basic Configuration". But i dont know at all what should i
    >use as value for the "Dot Clock Frequency" fields in "Basic
    >Configuration" and the "Monitor Configuration".


    Never mind. The mode and the refresh rate determine the dot clock
    frequency.

    > With the keyword EDID, i
    >get this tool: http://john.fremlin.de/programs/linux/read-edid/ and i
    >generate this (with my old C50 Monitor and my Geforce 4MX):


    Well, of course this is data for your old monitor and is not useful
    for your intended future one.

    > # EDID version 1 revision 1
    >Section "Monitor"
    > # Block type: 2:0 3:fc
    > Identifier "IBM C50"
    > VendorName "IBM"
    > ModelName "IBM C50"
    > # Block type: 2:0 3:fc
    > # Block type: 2:0 3:fd
    > HorizSync 30-54
    > VertRefresh 50-120
    > # Max dot clock (video bandwidth) 70 MHz
    > # Block type: 2:0 3:ff
    > # DPMS capabilities: Active off:yes Suspend:yes Standby:yes
    >
    > Mode "800x600" # vfreq 85.061Hz, hfreq 53.674kHz
    > DotClock 56.250000
    > HTimings 800 832 896 1048
    > VTimings 600 601 604 631
    > Flags "+HSync" "+VSync"
    > EndMode
    > # Block type: 2:0 3:fc
    > # Block type: 2:0 3:fd
    > # Block type: 2:0 3:ff
    >EndSection
    >debian:/tmp#
    >#############################
    >
    >The only possible value that i get with this is "70 MHz", but is this
    >the "Max dot clock" for my screen or for my graphic card ?


    EDID data is for your screen.

    >##################################
    >Modeline "1680x1050@60" 154.20 1680 1712 2296 2328 1050 1071 1081 1103
    >##################################
    >
    >But the "Dot Clock Frequency" field is automatically set to 154.19 MHz !


    Your future screen can handle that mode at the refresh frequency, so
    it can handle that dot clock. I would also expect your graphics card
    to be able to generate that dot clock.

    In any case, if the automatic mode generation through EDID does not
    work, you now have a proper mode for the monitor.

    >Yes, i know that VGA is ugly, but i really don't want to buy an other
    >Graphic card


    What's a EUR30 graphics card compared to an EUR300 monitor?

    >and i chose this LCD screen because it seems that it only
    >has a VGA input who is VERY good:


    Well, the quality of analog transmission is at least as much an issue
    of the graphics card as of the monitor.

    I would not buy an LCD display for this resolution that only has an
    analog input without at least trying it first. It may be ok, but
    without trying it, and withough DVI as a fallback it's a matter of
    luck.

    I see other 20"-22" monitors with that resolution with comparable
    price that have analog and digital input.

    - anton
    --
    M. Anton Ertl Some things have to be seen to be believed
    anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at Most things have to be believed to be seen
    http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html

  12. Re: Acer AL2216W under Linux ?

    anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) wrote:
    >>> a Matrox G450 is limited to 1280x1024 on DVI with standard modes.

    >>
    >>I have a vauge memory of that even though this limitation is specified
    >>by Matrox themselves the limitation is not in hardware but in the
    >>Windows drivers only.


    > I theorized that this is due to limited bandwidth, and constructed a
    > 1600x1200@52Hz mode that used the same bandwidth as a standard
    > 1280x1024@60Hz mode, and got it to work with the monitor in this way.


    Ah, so the solution was to use a driver capable of using a non-standard
    mode. I didn't remember that much, however I did rememer that there was no
    solution for my Windows user which had to go back to his old analog KVM
    switch.

    > We had much better experience with the Radeon 7000 (proper support for
    > 1600x1200 and 1920x1200 on DVI, with standard modes, with free drivers,
    > in the same old X version), and it's cheaper as well. No reason to buy
    > the G450.


    Agreed. The Radeon cards up to 9250 have very good and stable drivers. I
    once compared a Matrox G550 with a Radeon 9250 by running glxgears. I
    wasn't surprised that the Radeon 9250 outperformed the Matrox card by far
    in this simple OpenGL benchmark, however I was surprised that the Radeon
    card with disabled hardware accelerated OpenGL still outperformed the
    Matrox card with enabled hw accelerated OpenGL. I disabled hardware
    acceleratio by setting the environment variable LIBGL_ALWAYS_INDIRECT=1.

    regards Henrik
    --
    The address in the header is only to prevent spam. My real address is:
    hc8(at)uthyres.com Examples of addresses which go to spammers:
    root@variousus.net root@localhost


  13. Re: Acer AL2216W under Linux ?

    I've just buy the monitor today.

    It works perfectly and without problem


    And VGA mode make a good display (but on your advice i went to the shop
    before buying it ).


    Thanks !

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