Vista poisons ACPI? - Hardware

This is a discussion on Vista poisons ACPI? - Hardware ; Got our new laptop, whoopie! HP dv6700t. Shrunk the Vista disk down while installing FC9. Twiddled, rebooted back to Linux a number of times, everything great. Booted Vista to make sure it could still be done. Next boot to Linux, ...

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Thread: Vista poisons ACPI?

  1. Vista poisons ACPI?

    Got our new laptop, whoopie! HP dv6700t.

    Shrunk the Vista disk down while installing FC9. Twiddled, rebooted
    back to Linux a number of times, everything great. Booted Vista
    to make sure it could still be done. Next boot to Linux, it froze
    coming up -- something about an ACPI threshold (?) or somesuch, sorry
    this will be vague. Retried a couple of times with the same result.
    Booted with noacpi, and it works again.

    Anyone know what Vista might have done to the machine, and how
    to reverse the damage? (Besides of course wiping off Vista completely
    and using only Linux -- which would be fine with me, but I have to
    share the machine.)

    TIA!

  2. Re: Vista poisons ACPI?

    On Tuesday 10 June 2008 16:24, *Time Waster* wrote
    in /comp.os.linux.hardware:/

    > Got our new laptop, whoopie! HP dv6700t.


    Congratulations. :-)

    > Shrunk the Vista disk down while installing FC9. Twiddled, rebooted
    > back to Linux a number of times, everything great. Booted Vista
    > to make sure it could still be done. Next boot to Linux, it froze
    > coming up -- something about an ACPI threshold (?) or somesuch, sorry
    > this will be vague. Retried a couple of times with the same result.
    > Booted with noacpi, and it works again.
    >
    > Anyone know what Vista might have done to the machine, and how
    > to reverse the damage?


    All I can say at this stage is something I seem to recall from older BIOS
    versions that came with a write protection for the CMOS data, which one
    needed to either enable or disable via the BIOS set-up program. This
    information is old, so I'm not sure as to whether things have in the
    meantime changed or not, but considering Microsoft's persistence in using
    archaic technology, I wouldn't be surprised.

    The concept was that for ACPI to work in Windows, the CMOS write protection
    had to be disabled, and thus logic dictates that Windows requires write
    access to your BIOS set-up data in the CMOS memory, also known as /nvram/
    (Non-Volatile RAM).

    Modern BIOSes however do not seem to have such a write protection anymore,
    presumably because BIOS and CMOS manufacturers know that Microsoft won't
    abandon this practice. So presumably, Vista has altered something in the
    CMOS settings for ACPI, resulting in boot problems for GNU/Linux.

    And *that* would of course be totally consistent with Microsoft's vantage
    that a computer should be running only one operating system, and that this
    operating system should be one that's listed among Microsoft's commercial
    offerings.

    > (Besides of course wiping off Vista completely and using only Linux --
    > which would be fine with me, but I have to share the machine.)


    Perhaps you should consider Virtualization, or better yet, persuade your
    better half - I presume we are talking of a female who co-owns the
    machine? ;-) - that it's wiser to run a real computer operating system on
    real computer hardware. :-)

    --
    *Aragorn*
    (registered GNU/Linux user #223157)

  3. Re: Vista poisons ACPI?

    Time Waster wrote:


    Vista doesn't poison ACPI

    The fault is most likely a firmware bug in the BIOS. Is your BIOS
    up-to-date?

    ACPI is a very finicky thing and in a lot of cases it's taken a while
    for motherboard manufacturers to mature their code.

    Try flashing with a later version and please do let us know how you get on.

    --
    Regards,
    Sheridan Hutchinson
    Sheridan@Shezza.org


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  4. Re: Vista poisons ACPI?

    In article ,
    Sheridan Hutchinson wrote:
    >-=-=-=-=-=-
    >
    >Time Waster wrote:
    >
    >
    >Vista doesn't poison ACPI
    >
    >The fault is most likely a firmware bug in the BIOS. Is your BIOS
    >up-to-date?
    >
    >ACPI is a very finicky thing and in a lot of cases it's taken a while
    >for motherboard manufacturers to mature their code.
    >
    >Try flashing with a later version and please do let us know how you get on.


    Thanks for the advice. Haven't tracked down the BIOS version yet -- should've
    have done that while when i visited the settings. Took long enough for
    me to find the right function key during the boot as they flash 5 or 6
    of them to select for a brief moment.

    Anyway, with some searching I found that noapic gets the job done, too --
    it doesn't require noacpi. And from more googling I see that requiring
    noapic is fairly common, though i'm not sure what the penalty for
    using it is.

    I'm still suspicious since everything worked until i booted Vista once
    (after the Linux install). Maybe poison is too strong a word.


  5. Re: Vista poisons ACPI?

    Time Waster wrote:

    > Anyway, with some searching I found that noapic gets the job done,
    > too -- it doesn't require noacpi. And from more googling I see that
    > requiring noapic is fairly common, though i'm not sure what the
    > penalty for using it is.


    I should have suggested that, my apologies.

    I'm fairly confident that as long as you're using the latest stock
    kernel for your distro and the latest BIOS version that you will no
    longer require the noacpi toggle.

    Well the good news is that the plug'n'play won't be affected by the
    switch. The bad news is that power management can become an issue for
    the machine (probably not relevant if it's no a laptop) and that your
    machine will use legacy interrupt tables.

    The issue with legacy features is that they use legacy code. Legacy
    code in the linux kernel is not an ideal thing to be using because it's
    no longer receiving regular updates, and if you strike an issue, you'll
    just be told to move to the 'new code' (i.e. let the ACPI modules do
    their job).

    All the best.

    --
    Regards,
    Sheridan Hutchinson
    Sheridan@Shezza.org


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  6. Re: Vista poisons ACPI?

    On Thursday 12 June 2008 06:37, *Sheridan Hutchinson* wrote
    in /comp.os.linux.hardware:/

    > Time Waster wrote:
    >
    >> Anyway, with some searching I found that noapic gets the job done,
    >> too -- it doesn't require noacpi. And from more googling I see that
    >> requiring noapic is fairly common, though i'm not sure what the
    >> penalty for using it is.

    >
    > I should have suggested that, my apologies.
    >
    > I'm fairly confident that as long as you're using the latest stock
    > kernel for your distro and the latest BIOS version that you will no
    > longer require the noacpi toggle.
    >
    > Well the good news is that the plug'n'play won't be affected by the
    > switch. The bad news is that power management can become an issue for
    > the machine (probably not relevant if it's no a laptop) and that your
    > machine will use legacy interrupt tables. [...]


    Power management may become an issue even if you're not using a laptop,
    because things like thermal throttling also depend upon ACPI.
    Additionally, you need ACPI to enable hyperthreading on processors that
    have this feature.

    Furthermore, the legacy interrupt tables you're referring to are an issue of
    disabling the (local) APIC, which is not to be confused with ACPI. The
    APIC is to be found in the processors themselves, while ACPI is a matter of
    the BIOS and/or the operating system.

    ACPI = Advanced Control and Power Interface

    APIC = Advanced Programmable Interrupt Controller

    Your mileage may vary...

    --
    *Aragorn*
    (registered GNU/Linux user #223157)

  7. Re: Vista poisons ACPI?

    On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 16:58:47 +0200
    Aragorn wrote:

    > ... or better yet, persuade your better half - I presume we are talking of a
    > female who co-owns the machine? ;-) - that it's wiser to run a real computer
    > operating system on real computer hardware. :-)


    This is the path I chose with my wife when we switched to OS/2 2.11 back in
    1992/3 or so. Later in the 1990's we had one system that multi-booted into
    several operating systems including OS/2 Warp 4 and 'doze 95. She compared OS/2
    and 'doze 95 and ended up preferring OS/2 (yes!). Once I discovered that IBM
    was "killing" OS/2 I told her we were going to have to switch. She said "Please
    don't switch me to Microsoft!" (I *love* that woman!). So, getting her trained
    on a better OS early on in our personal computing paid off. She now LOVES her
    Linux PC, has several penguin dolls (even a penguin paper weight) on her desk
    and growls at me if I suggest changing to something else.

    Gene (e-mail: usenet0 \a\t eracc \d\o\t com)
    blog.eracc.com latest article: http://preview.tinyurl.com/6qa5qr
    'What is Spring Football?'
    --
    Mandriva Linux release 2007.1 (Official) for i586
    Got Rute? http://www.anrdoezrs.net/email-25465...sbn=0130333514
    ERA Computers & Consulting - http://www.eracc.com/
    Preloaded PCs - eComStation, Linux, FreeBSD, OpenServer & UnixWare


  8. Re: Vista poisons ACPI?

    In article <20080612120200.4ad350ab@eracc.UUCP>,
    >This is the path I chose with my wife when we switched to OS/2 2.11 back in
    >1992/3 or so. Later in the 1990's we had one system that multi-booted into
    >several operating systems including OS/2 Warp 4 and 'doze 95. She compared OS/2
    >and 'doze 95 and ended up preferring OS/2 (yes!). Once I discovered that IBM
    >was "killing" OS/2 I told her we were going to have to switch. She said "Please
    >don't switch me to Microsoft!" (I *love* that woman!). So, getting her trained
    >on a better OS early on in our personal computing paid off. She now LOVES her
    >Linux PC, has several penguin dolls (even a penguin paper weight) on her desk
    >and growls at me if I suggest changing to something else.


    OP here. Well, its an easier sell for me in a way, because she's a Mac
    person & doesn't like Windows. But we didn't want to spend quite enough
    to get a Mac -- or maybe i scared her by telling her one of *those* would
    dual-boot, too, and I'd just install Linux on part of it.

    I'm quite eager to have it go well, though, so hangs and freezes that
    I'm confident I'd hack around bother me more -- it might get her to
    try the Vista I left there, yuck. I'm running with the noapic for now,
    but I had another hang on 'starting udev', and a reoccuring problem
    logged to messages about the touchpad. Since the laptop has plenty
    of entertainment features, there's still a chance I'll come across
    something that matters & is only supported on Windoze.

    The big test will be this vacation week where she'll actually be
    getting some significant time on it. It's like one of those experiments
    you read about on SlashDot. Can a MAC person be converted to Linux?
    At least to tolerate it? Not to start a religous thing, but i'm just
    irritated by the Mac -- but at least I can bring up a shell on there,
    and run NFS so that I could setup a backup system using my Linux desktop.
    The big test for her will be Open Office snappiness (or lack thereof).
    (She's used to NeoOffice/OpenOffice on the Mac, though.)

    -bc

  9. Re: Vista poisons ACPI?

    On Fri, 13 Jun 2008 17:01:11 GMT
    bfc@fenway.UUCP (Time Waster) wrote:

    > In article <20080612120200.4ad350ab@eracc.UUCP>,

    [...]
    > >getting her trained on a better OS early on in our personal computing paid
    > >off. She now LOVES her Linux PC, has several penguin dolls (even a
    > >penguin paper weight) on her desk and growls at me if I suggest changing to
    > >something else.

    >
    > OP here. Well, its an easier sell for me in a way, because she's a Mac
    > person & doesn't like Windows. But we didn't want to spend quite enough
    > to get a Mac -- or maybe i scared her by telling her one of *those* would
    > dual-boot, too, and I'd just install Linux on part of it.


    Heh, Mac folks are a breed unto themselves. Most of them using OS X have zero
    clue they are now running a modified Unix OS under all that Mac GUIness.

    > I'm quite eager to have it go well, though, so hangs and freezes that
    > I'm confident I'd hack around bother me more -- it might get her to
    > try the Vista I left there, yuck. I'm running with the noapic for now,
    > but I had another hang on 'starting udev', and a reoccuring problem
    > logged to messages about the touchpad. Since the laptop has plenty
    > of entertainment features, there's still a chance I'll come across
    > something that matters & is only supported on Windoze.


    Well, laptops are a special case. Every freaking model is different enough that
    one can have problems even if a similar model from the same manufacturer works
    fine with Linux. Plus many of them come with 'doze dongles in place of real
    hardware. Just plain silly.

    > The big test will be this vacation week where she'll actually be
    > getting some significant time on it. It's like one of those experiments
    > you read about on SlashDot. Can a MAC person be converted to Linux?
    > At least to tolerate it? [...]


    Good luck with that! Let us know how she fares.

    Gene (e-mail: usenet0 \a\t eracc \d\o\t com)
    blog.eracc.com latest article: http://preview.tinyurl.com/46hgv2
    'Compiz Fusion, Mandriva 2008.1 on AMD Phenom Quad-core PC with Demo'
    --
    Mandriva Linux release 2007.1 (Official) for i586
    Got Rute? http://www.anrdoezrs.net/email-25465...sbn=0130333514
    ERA Computers & Consulting - http://www.eracc.com/
    Preloaded PCs - eComStation, Linux, FreeBSD, OpenServer & UnixWare


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