Universal sound card? - Hardware

This is a discussion on Universal sound card? - Hardware ; I need a universal sound card. One that will run on any of the LIVE-CD linux versions. So, can't need any driver installs...has to automatically run with whatever is on the linux live CD. Also has to run any version ...

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Thread: Universal sound card?

  1. Universal sound card?

    I need a universal sound card.
    One that will run on any of the LIVE-CD linux versions.
    So, can't need any driver installs...has to automatically run with whatever
    is on the linux live CD.
    Also has to run any version of Windows, but I can install
    drivers there.
    I've been using an ISA soundblaster 16. Has served me well,
    until VISTA, which can't run it.
    What are my options?
    Thanks, mike
    --
    Return address is VALID!
    Bunch-O-Stuff Forsale Here:
    http://mike.liveline.de/sale.html

  2. Re: Universal sound card?

    mike writes:

    > I need a universal sound card.
    > One that will run on any of the LIVE-CD linux versions.
    > So, can't need any driver installs...has to automatically run with whatever
    > is on the linux live CD.
    > Also has to run any version of Windows, but I can install
    > drivers there.
    > I've been using an ISA soundblaster 16. Has served me well,
    > until VISTA, which can't run it.
    > What are my options?


    Try something with a C-Media chip. The CMI8738 is well supported in
    Linux.

    --
    Måns Rullgård
    mans@mansr.com

  3. Re: Universal sound card?

    mike writes:

    < I need a universal sound card.
    < One that will run on any of the LIVE-CD linux versions.
    < So, can't need any driver installs...has to automatically run with whatever
    < is on the linux live CD.
    < Also has to run any version of Windows, but I can install
    < drivers there.
    < I've been using an ISA soundblaster 16. Has served me well,

    I hear that one. I still can't toss mine (not that I ever toss anything)

    < until VISTA, which can't run it.
    < What are my options?

    I've had luck with SB-Live! C-Media Electronics Inc CM8738, and an ACL97 but
    the ACL97 has been a problem for many others.

    Good luck, the more crap they paste to the motherboard the more complicated
    it is using and disabling them devices. Might be cheaper to buy a modem and
    a 686.



  4. Re: Universal sound card?

    Stephen Gonedes staggered into the Black Sun and said:
    > mike writes:
    >> I need a universal sound card. One that will run on any of the
    >> LIVE-CD linux versions. So, [it] has to automatically run with
    >> whatever is on the linux live CD. I've been using an ISA
    >> soundblaster 16.

    > I hear that one. I still can't toss mine (not that I ever toss
    > anything)


    Why do you need to run multiple LiveCDs here? Are you testing them out
    or something? The thing to do is to pick a distro, figure out how to
    use it, and put it on a local disk. Not only is it faster than almost
    every LiveCD, it's also much more customizable.

    Have any x86 motherboards with ISA slots been made in the last 6 years?
    ISA was obsolete in 2000 and will shortly be uninteresting to everyone
    except computer archeologists.

    >> What are my options?

    > I've had luck with SB-Live! C-Media Electronics Inc CM8738, and an
    > ACL97 but the ACL97 has been a problem for many others.


    I have an old ES1371 PCI card that works perfectly, and the ES1371
    module has been a part of vanilla kernels since 1999. Cards with this
    chipset were often sold as "soundblaster PCI 128".

    > Good luck, the more crap they paste to the motherboard the more
    > complicated it is using and disabling them devices.


    The last 2 motherboards I've used both had integrated i8x0 sound chips.
    Both have worked just fine, but the only time I use LiveCDs is for
    installing distros or resizing partitions. Why would you need to
    disable onboard sound to use another PCI sound card?

    > Might be cheaper to buy a modem and a 686.


    ?

    --
    If you're looking for trouble, I can offer you a wide selection.
    My blog and resume: http://crow202.dyndns.org:8080/wordpress/
    Matt G|There is no Darkness in Eternity/But only Light too dim for us to see

  5. Re: Universal sound card?

    Dances With Crows wrote:
    > Stephen Gonedes staggered into the Black Sun and said:
    >> mike writes:
    >>> I need a universal sound card. One that will run on any of the
    >>> LIVE-CD linux versions. So, [it] has to automatically run with
    >>> whatever is on the linux live CD. I've been using an ISA
    >>> soundblaster 16.

    >> I hear that one. I still can't toss mine (not that I ever toss
    >> anything)

    >
    > Why do you need to run multiple LiveCDs here? Are you testing them out
    > or something? The thing to do is to pick a distro, figure out how to
    > use it, and put it on a local disk.


    If only that worked. Linux zealots are clueless to the difficulty
    mere windows mortals have deciphering the different ways of installing
    hardware in the different distributions.

    Distribution A doesn't support the sound card.
    Distribution B supports the sound card, but not the network card.
    Distribution C supports neither.
    Change the card to one that A supports and now, Vista won't recognize it.

    The sound card is one hurdle to making multiple
    OS's work. Support built-in all live distributions
    is a good sign.

    Not only is it faster than almost
    > every LiveCD, it's also much more customizable.


    Really don't want customizable. I want network, sound, display to just
    work.
    >
    > Have any x86 motherboards with ISA slots been made in the last 6 years?
    > ISA was obsolete in 2000 and will shortly be uninteresting to everyone
    > except computer archeologists.
    >
    >>> What are my options?

    >> I've had luck with SB-Live! C-Media Electronics Inc CM8738, and an
    >> ACL97 but the ACL97 has been a problem for many others.

    >
    > I have an old ES1371 PCI card that works perfectly, and the ES1371
    > module has been a part of vanilla kernels since 1999. Cards with this
    > chipset were often sold as "soundblaster PCI 128".
    >
    >> Good luck, the more crap they paste to the motherboard the more
    >> complicated it is using and disabling them devices.

    >
    > The last 2 motherboards I've used both had integrated i8x0 sound chips.
    > Both have worked just fine, but the only time I use LiveCDs is for
    > installing distros or resizing partitions. Why would you need to
    > disable onboard sound to use another PCI sound card?
    >
    >> Might be cheaper to buy a modem and a 686.

    >
    > ?
    >



    --
    Return address is VALID!
    Bunch-O-Stuff Forsale Here:
    http://mike.liveline.de/sale.html

  6. Re: Universal sound card?

    mike wrote:

    > Buying linux compliant hardware is not an option.


    I would certainly go down this route, if you want to run Linux. In the
    same way as you would buy Microsoft Windows compliant hardware, if you
    wanted to run Micros~1dows.

    I know what you are trying to achieve with standardization, I do a
    similar thing here. However, there are problems with standard hardware
    becoming unavailable, or motherboards having onboard devices or
    different slot types, different drive connectors, no printer port, etc,
    which makes the job of "IBM compatiblity" somewhat difficult.

    This is not a Linux problem, and exists in the Micros~1dows world too,
    because some versions do not support older standard hardware.

    I have a set of standards here, but they may not match what others are
    using. The trouble with standards is that there are so many to choose
    from.

    A specific problem with soundcards is that some are "soundblaster compatible",
    but may be from a different manufacturer, and there are different levels
    of compatibility. Some are register compatible, but there are apparently
    some that are not.

    What I tend to do is search the net before introducing a new piece of
    hardware, to check that it provides the compatibility that I require and
    that it works with open source drivers.

    There are various websites that maintain compatibility lists.

    You will not get a card that fits all slots, works on all IBM compatible
    computers, and runs on all versions of Microsoft Windows and Linux.

    Just get something that works well, and then use it in as many machines
    as you can.

    My main machines have onboard sound from Via technologies, and this
    works just fine, but I haven't got midi files playing yet. (Apparently
    the sound chips do not provide onboard midi synthesis, which is a bit
    annoying, because I used to use midi a lot.) However this can
    be replicated through software using the existing sound channels, but I
    have not got round to fixing this yet.

    I used to use ESS cards, because they have nice sounding onboard midi in
    comparison to Creative Labs cards, however at the time I switched to
    using Linux, I could not get the card to work, even though the card was
    soundblaster compatible. (A driver was since developed, but I tend to
    use PCI slot devices now.) I just got an ESS Solo1 PCI to work using the
    new Open Sound System (not part of the kernel, but available under GPL
    from 4front technologies.) This worked well, but I have not tried midi
    synthesis yet.

    The Yamaha Waveforce XG PCI requires binary swirmware in order to
    operate, so I would avoid using this card.

    Regards,

    Mark.

    --
    Mark Hobley,
    393 Quinton Road West,
    Quinton, BIRMINGHAM.
    B32 1QE.

  7. Re: Universal sound card?

    mike wrote:
    > Aragorn wrote:
    >> mike wrote:
    >>
    >>> Aragorn wrote:
    >>>> Either way, the bottom line is this: if a particular piece of hardware
    >>>> does not work in your particular GNU/Linux distribution, then you've
    >>>> bought the wrong hardware.
    >>> Yep, all my fault that linux won't work with my hardware.


    Big snip of what appears to be Trollery and troll feeding but
    maybe I am too harsh.

    Neither of you guys have tried Mandriva 2008.1, have you?

    It replaces Windows very well. And it uses similar metaphors
    as did Zerox PARC, Mac, and Amiga before MS Windows got to a usable
    state. *Yes, Even Before MS copyrighted Windows* as a trademark.

    AFAIK Mandriva is not the only distribution that is this
    good and it is not assembled by boys working on college projects.
    It is not as cheap as pirated Windows either but you can get it
    as simply FOSS which is free for the downloading. I used the free
    version for several years. The only problem I had with it was
    the WinModems that are so widespread but I have plenty of external
    modems from Amiga days. The good part about the paid versions is
    that they come with the codecs need for entertainment media.

    Other than Mandriva there are Red Hat Enterprise, and SuSe
    versions of fully supported GNU/Linux distributions. Xandros is
    even allied with, "shock and horror" Microsoft?

    By the way I have run GNU/Linux on 3 x86 machines, one 1.8 GHz Celeron
    laptop which stopped working and a 2.4 GB Celeron obsolete Dell. On my
    other obsolete Dell a 700 MHz Pentium 3 Coppermine, Inspiron 4000, I have a
    Knoppix install as a dual boot. Will get a DVD Reader and put Mandriva
    on it ASAP if some hardware repairs can be done.

    later
    bliss -- C O C O A Powered... (at california dot com)

    --
    bobbie sellers -(Back to Angband)Team *AMIGA & SF-LUG*

    "It is by will alone I set my mind in motion.
    It is by the beans of cocoa that the thoughts acquire speed,
    the thighs acquire girth, the girth become a warning.
    It is by theobromine alone I set my mind in motion."
    --from Someone else's Dune spoof ripped to my taste.

  8. Re: Universal sound card?

    bobbie sellers wrote:

    > Big snip of what appears to be Trollery and troll feeding but
    > maybe I am too harsh.


    What constitutes "troll feeding" to one person may actually be "sane and
    justified rebuttal" to another. There are plenty of newbies and lurkers
    out there already who are being misled by the propaganda and Microsoft's
    "Get the FUD" campaign.

    > Neither of you guys have tried Mandriva 2008.1, have you?


    Not yet, no. However, I've always used Mandrake Linux - the predecessor to
    Mandriva - on my own machines, and this very machine I'm typing this from
    still has an old Mandrake 10.0 PowerPack on it.

    My main machine however is still in the process of being set up, due to the
    fact that it is a very complex set-up and the delay of the new release of
    its chosen distribution, i.e. Gentoo. The complexity lies in the fact that
    it's a machine intended to run virtual machines using the Xen hypervisor,
    and that one of those unprivileged virtual machines will actually be an X11
    workstation.

    As soon as that machine is set up and fully functional, I intend to install
    Mandriva 2008.1 on this one here. Up until then, I cannot afford the
    downtime yet, so I'm stuck with this older release - which actually works
    quite well, mind you.

    > It replaces Windows very well.


    Sure it does, and so does everything else. However, that doesn't mean that
    GNU/Linux as an operating system was meant as a Windows replacement. The
    rivalry between Windows and GNU/Linux - not to use the word "war" - was
    invoked by Microsoft, because of everything Microsoft stands for - i.e.
    monopolists and megalomaniacs.

    Sure, modern day desktop GNU/Linux distributors do intend to bring over some
    Windows users to the GNU/Linux camp, but that's simply because most of
    those distributors are now commercial entities and thus have to
    obtain/maintain a market share to further their existence.

    This does however not change anything to the premise of GNU/Linux as being a
    UNIX-like operating system, with UNIX as the chosen system's architecture
    because of the fact that UNIX was developed with logic, portability,
    scalability, flexibility, security and robustness in mind, and totally void
    of any commercial intentions.

    Back in those days, and with UNIX actually originating as a hobby project by
    Dennis Ritchie and Ken Thompson at AT&T Bell Labs, this was still possible,
    and this approach was actually the best one. These days, technological
    progress is totally dictated by economy and consumerism - just like almost
    everything else in our civilization, unfortunately - instead of being
    driven by a real strive for advancement.

    GNU/Linux continues that tradition - and perhaps more so even for the Linux
    kernel itself than for the GNU userland - and being a UNIX-style operating
    system, it should not have to attempt to mimic Microsoft Windows. The fact
    that most GNU/Linux distributors are attempting to compete with Microsoft
    (and Apple) in the consumergrade OS market has nothing to do with the
    operating system itself.

    > And it uses similar metaphors as did Zerox PARC, Mac, and Amiga before MS
    > Windows got to a usable state. *Yes, Even Before MS copyrighted Windows*
    > as a trademark.
    >
    > AFAIK Mandriva is not the only distribution that is this
    > good and it is not assembled by boys working on college projects.


    Indeed not, but other than some configuration, branding and putting the
    pieces of the puzzle together, Mandriva doesn't do all that much. Let's
    not forget that all the software in a Mandriva distribution was already
    written by other people long before that.

    > It is not as cheap as pirated Windows either but you can get it
    > as simply FOSS which is free for the downloading. I used the free
    > version for several years.


    Of all Mandrake distributions I have used so far, only one was actually
    downloaded - that was the Mandrake 7.2 release. I've purchased all others,
    simply because they contained all the proprietary plugins and drivers, and
    because I wanted to financially contribute to the community.

    See, with Windows, people want to use it but they don't want to pay for it,
    so they will often go for pirated copies, cracked versions or whatever
    other illegal thing. GNU/Linux on the other hand is given away for free,
    and people actually *want* to pay for it. I guess that says enough about
    how good it is. ;-)

    > The only problem I had with it was the WinModems that are so widespread
    > but I have plenty of external modems from Amiga days.


    Some of those winmodems can be made to work, albeit that the number still is
    few.

    > The good part about the paid versions is that they come with the codecs
    > need for entertainment media.


    Indeed so, and this is why I personally recommend buying a shrinkwrapped
    distro for the newbie rather than downloading one. In addition, you also
    get the official support from the distributor in the event of difficulties,
    as well as - in Mandriva's case, and only if you buy the version on CDs,
    because the DVD comes "as is" - a printed installation manual.

    > Other than Mandriva there are Red Hat Enterprise, and SuSe
    > versions of fully supported GNU/Linux distributions. Xandros is
    > even allied with, "shock and horror" Microsoft?


    SuSE is the property of Novell, and they too have signed a deal with
    Microsoft. Their initial idea was not so bad, but they should have known
    not to get between the sheets with the devil, because Microsoft has
    conveniently re-interpreted their "cooperation" before the eyes of the
    media as a "patent deal", feeding the FUD ("Fear, Uncertainty & Doubt")
    machine even more and scaring away the newbies over (im)possible Microsoft
    patent infringements by the Linux kernel.

    > By the way I have run GNU/Linux on 3 x86 machines, one 1.8 GHz Celeron
    > laptop which stopped working and a 2.4 GB Celeron obsolete Dell. On my
    > other obsolete Dell a 700 MHz Pentium 3 Coppermine, Inspiron 4000, I have
    > a Knoppix install as a dual boot. Will get a DVD Reader and put Mandriva
    > on it ASAP if some hardware repairs can be done.


    I use GNU/Linux on all of my machines, and in our organization we also run
    GNU/Linux on all of our servers; some of the workstations run Windows, but
    that's the call of the owner of the machines, who has to work on them -
    we're a not-for-profit and the computers we use are all our own property.

    We've had Dell - we still have one - but now we're also using a Tyan-based
    dual Opteron machine as a server, alongside an AMD Phenom server. My own
    main machine is also a Tyan/Opteron machine (twin dualcore) with an Adaptec
    SAS RAID controller and 32 GB of RAM. This one here is a simple AMD
    AthlonXP 2800+ with only 512 MB and a single PATA hard disk.

    As distributions, we've tried SuSE, we've actually used Mandrake 9.0
    ProSuite for about two years, and now we're running CentOS on our servers.
    And like I said, my main machine will have a Xen/Gentoo set-up.

    I would not recommend any of the *buntus as a distribution for newbies
    because of the "dedicated desktop support" concept. Ubuntu does not come
    with KDE/Qt applications, and Kubuntu does not come with Gnome/GTK
    applications.

    This can be confusing for the newbie, so I would recommend a distribution
    that supports both. Mandriva, PCLinuxOS, SuSE, Fedora Core - although I
    personally don't like RH/FC/CentOS over their boycot of anything other
    than /ext3/ for the filesystem - or Debian.

    Slackware if you want to get your hands dirty. Gentoo if you want to get
    them really, really, really dirty - I'm talking real Gentoo here, not
    Sabayon - and LFS if you like crawling through the mud of the battlefield
    first and then go basejumping next. :-)

    --
    *Aragorn*
    (registered GNU/Linux user #223157)

  9. Re: Universal sound card?

    I demand that mike may or may not have written...

    [huge snip]
    > Shoulda read this first, cause Ubuntu 8.04 is what I was downloading.
    > Here's what happened:


    [snip]
    > My preferred course was to install on a 1GHZ laptop with 128MB of ram. Ram
    > expansion costs many times the cost of the laptop, so that ain't gonna
    > happen.


    With that amount of memory, you should be considering the Xfce variant
    (XUbuntu) rather than the "somewhat larger" GNOME or KDE variants. (Hint:
    install xubuntu-desktop and remove ubuntu-desktop.)

    > I gotta say, I was impressed. Different user interface than I'm used to
    > with other linuxes, but after poking around, I got some of it to work. It
    > recognized my thumb drive.


    That'd be part of your brain...? :-)

    > I could play an mp3. Wireless network wouldn't work and I couldn't figure
    > out how to configure it.


    I'd go for /etc/network/interfaces and the relevant man pages, but that's
    just me... might help if you say what chipset. Somebody probably has an idea
    (Intel hardware's fine here, although there's a Belkin rt61 PCI card which
    I'd like to get working).

    [snip]
    > I tried installing a different music player. That went without a hitch,
    > although I thought 40MB of stuff downloaded was excessive for a music
    > player.


    That probably includes a b(l)oatload of recommended packages, which I've
    configured aptitude to leave well alone.

    > I tried installing a basic programming environment. Worked fine until
    > I tried to run the program. Bunch of stuff missing. So much for
    > dependency checking.


    Specifics?

    > Haven't tried plugging in a usb webcam.


    That might be fine; but if it's not supported by any driver in your current
    kernel, check http://linuxtv.org/.

    [snip]
    > Aragorn wrote:
    >> Ubuntu does not come with KDE/Qt applications, and Kubuntu does not come
    >> with Gnome/GTK applications.


    >> This can be confusing for the newbie, so I would recommend a distribution
    >> that supports both.


    In Ubuntu's case: ubuntu-desktop, kubuntu-desktop, xubuntu-desktop...

    (I'm sticking with Debian, though.)

    [snip]
    --
    | Darren Salt | linux or ds at | nr. Ashington, | Toon
    | RISC OS, Linux | youmustbejoking,demon,co,uk | Northumberland | Army
    | + Output less CO2 => avoid massive flooding. TIME IS RUNNING OUT *FAST*.

    Please take cash.

  10. Re: Universal sound card?

    bobbie sellers wrote:
    > mike wrote:
    >> Aragorn wrote:
    >>> bobbie sellers wrote:

    > snip
    >
    >
    > And if you can be satisfied with a simpler system look
    > at the 200 MB Slaxware distro based on Slackware but which
    > is one of the really handy distros along with Puppy and
    > Damned Small Linux for older machines.
    >
    >
    > later
    > bliss -- C O C O A Powered... (at california dot com)
    >

    I had high hopes for Puppy live distribution.
    Has the ability to let you configure it and save
    configuration back to the boot CD. Solves many of the problems
    with live CD's on arbitrary hardware. Let you effectively
    optimize the distribution for your use without having to know
    how to build a distribution. Way cool...
    Problem is that it creates a multisession bootable CD.
    The machines I wanted to run it on wouldn't boot from the
    CD after the changes were saved. Bummer.


    --
    Return address is VALID!
    Bunch-O-Stuff Forsale Here:
    http://mike.liveline.de/sale.html

  11. Re: [OT] Advocacy (was: "Re: Universal sound card?")

    In Aragorn:

    [Snip...]

    > Then by all means, *use* Windows and don't harass the people who want to
    > use something other.


    IMO, you've been baited by Flatfish/Hadron/Moshe/etc. (or sockpuuppet). It
    is a complete waste of time, and they should indeed use their beloved Doze
    until Unca Bill says stop, if Linux is such a chore for them.

    What's really happening is these M$ shills and trolls are in panic, as the
    public and press are clearly aware Vista is a complete dud. The only thing
    Redmond spinmeisters have going now is Yet More Vaporware (Windows 7), and
    bidding for last century net "properties" like Yahoo:

    Microsoft's problem is that its business model has come to rely on
    selling operating systems that cost more than the hardware on
    which they reside. It knows this can't be sustained indefinitely,
    there's too many new options in the marketplace. Apple is
    resurgent, Google's eyeing the desktop, and there's those Wal-Mart
    Linux PCs.

    More:

    http://www.informationweek.com/blog/...s_7_shows.html

    I'm plonking the thread (*NOT* you personally) as I gave up on Flatfish et
    al years ago.

    JMO; YMMV...

    --
    Regards, Weird (Harold Stevens) * IMPORTANT EMAIL INFO FOLLOWS *
    Pardon any bogus email addresses (wookie) in place for spambots.
    Really, it's (wyrd) at airmail, dotted with net. DO NOT SPAM IT.
    I toss GoogleGroup posts from gitgo (http://improve-usenet.org).

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