Linux compatible laptop? - Hardware

This is a discussion on Linux compatible laptop? - Hardware ; Hello, I need a small (ca. 11,2') (Sub)notebook being sold now that is fully compatible with Linux (Debian). It should have WLAN and a long battery life. Does anybody own/have heard of such a laptop? (I don't want to buy ...

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  1. Linux compatible laptop?

    Hello,

    I need a small (ca. 11,2') (Sub)notebook being sold now that is fully
    compatible with Linux (Debian). It should have WLAN and a long battery
    life.

    Does anybody own/have heard of such a laptop? (I don't want to buy it, I
    just want the model number)

    Joris

  2. Re: Linux compatible laptop?

    Joris Dolderer writes:

    > I need a small (ca. 11,2') (Sub)notebook being sold now that is fully
    > compatible with Linux (Debian). It should have WLAN and a long battery
    > life.
    >
    > Does anybody own/have heard of such a laptop? (I don't want to buy it, I
    > just want the model number)


    Would something like the Asus Eee suffice?
    http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEeePC

    I think that Asus suggest you should get a few hours' battery life from
    it but I haven't looked at any independent realistic tests of that.

    I'll be in the market myself for such a thing in a few months so I'd be
    interested to hear of alternatives. Ease of getting Debian running on it
    is of great interest to me.

    Mark

  3. Re: Linux compatible laptop?

    On Fri, 02 May 2008 13:13:32 +0000, Joris Dolderer wrote:

    > Hello,
    >
    > I need a small (ca. 11,2') (Sub)notebook being sold now that is fully
    > compatible with Linux (Debian). It should have WLAN and a long battery
    > life.
    >
    > Does anybody own/have heard of such a laptop? (I don't want to buy it, I
    > just want the model number)
    >
    > Joris


    There are a variety of new sub-laptops available - most of them come with
    Linux installed as they are marketed to be inexpensive. The aformentioned
    ASUS eeepc is one. Have a look at www.viaarena.com to see several others.
    Cloudbook comes to mind - I believe WalMart (the other evil empire) sells
    it.

  4. Re: Linux compatible laptop?

    I actually don't think of a laptop being that small... I'd rather think of
    a laptop in the range of e.g. the Samsung q45 aura (devesh etc.), but I
    don't know wether that is Linux compatible.

    Joris

  5. Re: Linux compatible laptop?

    On Fri, 2 May 2008, Mark T.B. Carroll wrote:
    > I'll be in the market myself for such a thing in a few months so I'd be
    > interested to hear of alternatives. Ease of getting Debian running on it
    > is of great interest to me.
    >

    What seems to be happening is that there is or will be competition with
    the eeepc. I've not followed it all, so I'm not sure what's available or
    whether they were in the works before the eeepc or have come as a result
    of it, but I have seen references to small laptops that are either out
    or coming out soon and there are comparisons to the eeepc.

    Obviously, this is a new branch of small computers. Wait, and you likely
    do get more possibilities (unless the subset ends up being a failure).

    Michael


  6. Re: Linux compatible laptop?

    On Fri, 2 May 2008, Joris Dolderer wrote:

    > I actually don't think of a laptop being that small... I'd rather think of
    > a laptop in the range of e.g. the Samsung q45 aura (devesh etc.), but I
    > don't know wether that is Linux compatible.
    >
    > Joris
    >

    The eeepc has a 7" screen, weighs about 2lb, and is said to be about
    the size of a hardcover book.

    Michael


  7. Re: Linux compatible laptop?

    On Fri, 02 May 2008 15:21:08 +0000, Joris Dolderer wrote:

    > I actually don't think of a laptop being that small... I'd rather think
    > of a laptop in the range of e.g. the Samsung q45 aura (devesh etc.), but
    > I don't know wether that is Linux compatible.
    >
    > Joris


    Now you have me confused. Originally you referred to a "sub-notebook". Are
    you looking for a more or less traditional sized portable, or a smaller
    package? Lenovo are generally Linux compatible. You've been provided with
    names of various small packages. How about looking at some of the
    mentioned products (www.viaarena.com might be a good place to see several)
    and let us know if we're on the same channel.

  8. Re: Linux compatible laptop?

    On 02 May 2008 13:13:32 GMT, Joris Dolderer wrote:

    > I need a small (ca. 11,2') (Sub)notebook being sold now that is fully
    > compatible with Linux (Debian). It should have WLAN and a long battery
    > life.


    ASUS sell "barebones" notebooks to re-sellers. You can then choose the
    processor, hard drive, memory *and* operating system. Some models are
    12". I have one of these and it's almost fully compatible with Linux.
    There's a list of re-sellers here:

    http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=25849

    Google for "Asus barebones notebook" and you'll get lots of hits.

    Bob T.

  9. Re: Linux compatible laptop?

    On 2 May, 14:13, Joris Dolderer wrote:
    > Hello,
    >
    > I need a small (ca. 11,2') (Sub)notebook being sold now that is fully
    > compatible with Linux (Debian). It should have WLAN and a long battery
    > life.
    >
    > Does anybody own/have heard of such a laptop? (I don't want to buy it, I
    > just want the model number)


    There is a 9 inch version of the EEEpc available now. I've seen
    reports but not the carcass, as it is not yet available in the UK.
    The 701 is simply superb, although I don't think anything will top the
    battery of the sadly lamented http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psion_Netbook
    which could get a week out of a handful of AA cells.

  10. Re: Linux compatible laptop?

    On Fri, 2 May 2008 19:23:39 UTC in comp.os.linux.hardware, bobharvey
    wrote:

    > There is a 9 inch version of the EEEpc available now. I've seen
    > reports but not the carcass, as it is not yet available in the UK.


    They're listed as 'in stock' at dabs.com today. 336 inc VAT.

    --
    Trevor Hemsley, Brighton, UK
    Trevor dot Hemsley at ntlworld dot com

  11. Re: Linux compatible laptop?

    On Fri, 02 May 2008 12:23:39 -0700, bobharvey wrote:

    > On 2 May, 14:13, Joris Dolderer wrote:
    >> Hello,
    >>
    >> I need a small (ca. 11,2') (Sub)notebook being sold now that is fully
    >> compatible with Linux (Debian). It should have WLAN and a long battery
    >> life.
    >>
    >> Does anybody own/have heard of such a laptop? (I don't want to buy it,
    >> I just want the model number)

    >
    > There is a 9 inch version of the EEEpc available now. I've seen reports
    > but not the carcass, as it is not yet available in the UK. The 701 is
    > simply superb, although I don't think anything will top the battery of
    > the sadly lamented http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psion_Netbook which
    > could get a week out of a handful of AA cells.


    The next generation that uses the Intel Atom processors are due around
    June, the current ones use a Via processor.

  12. Re: Linux compatible laptop?

    Joris Dolderer wrote:
    > Hello,
    >
    > I need a small (ca. 11,2') (Sub)notebook being sold now that is fully
    > compatible with Linux (Debian). It should have WLAN and a long
    > battery life.
    >
    > Does anybody own/have heard of such a laptop? (I don't want to buy
    > it, I just want the model number)


    Based on your criteria I would suggested the X range of Thinkpad's as
    being particularly fitting. Specifically, the X40, X41, X60, X60s, X61,
    X61s and the new X300 would all make ideal candidates.

    I also use Debian (testing) on my X40 (which I'm typing on now) and all
    the hardware is supported.

    --
    Regards,
    Sheridan Hutchinson
    Sheridan@Shezza.org




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  13. Re: Linux compatible laptop?

    On Sun, 04 May 2008 10:42:34 +0100, Sheridan Hutchinson wrote:

    > Joris Dolderer wrote:
    >> Hello,
    >>
    >> I need a small (ca. 11,2') (Sub)notebook being sold now that is fully
    >> compatible with Linux (Debian). It should have WLAN and a long
    >> battery life.
    >>
    >> Does anybody own/have heard of such a laptop? (I don't want to buy it,
    >> I just want the model number)

    >
    > Based on your criteria I would suggested the X range of Thinkpad's as
    > being particularly fitting. Specifically, the X40, X41, X60, X60s, X61,
    > X61s and the new X300 would all make ideal candidates.
    >
    > I also use Debian (testing) on my X40 (which I'm typing on now) and all
    > the hardware is supported.


    Lenovo offers laptops with SuSE preinstalled, they offer it on their top
    of the line T61, and they do it right out in the open. This is in
    contrast to Dell who offers Ubuntu on an obsolete low spec laptop which
    is nearly impossible to find on their website. Dell is treating Linux
    like video stores treat porn, they put Linux behind a curtain in a dark
    corner of their website where you can't find it unless you know it's
    there. Lenovo puts Linux right by the front door. When get a new laptop
    later this year it's going to be a Lenovo.

  14. Re: Linux compatible laptop?

    Ramu wrote:

    > I work as a project management consultant and while I am at the client
    > site, it is mostly a Microsoft shop where I have to use the
    > applications such as Word, Excel, MS Project, Powerpoint and Outlook
    > ("productivity apps").
    >
    > I am currently running Windows XP (need to go thru the "mandatory
    > upgrade" to Vista shortly) [...


    Just for the record, you could also upgrade to XP SP3. From all I've read
    about Microsoft products so far, XP SP3 is just as capable as Vista at
    being incompatible, crashing its kernel or hogging up your resources.

    > ...] and I find that the amount of time the laptop spends joining the
    > domain and then starting Word, Outlook, etc takes over 5 to 8 minutes.
    >
    > Here is my ASK:
    > Is there a way to configure Windows XP (or Vista) *AND* Linux to
    > jointly run on a laptop so that Linux is delivering the Internet (web)
    > experience while the non-Linux operating system is "reconfigured" to
    > focus only on productivity apps (mentioned above).


    Yes it is. Alongside the advice given to you by Bill Marcum regarding
    VMWare, there is also another free option...: If your machine has hardware
    virtualization support, you could use Xen as a hypervisor, running
    underneath both GNU/Linux and Windows.

    The GNU/Linux virtual machine would be the "host" - although the host/guest
    terminology is actually incorrect verbage in a Xen set-up - and the Windows
    virtual machine would be the "guest".

    You would be using your Windows desktop from within an X11 window in
    GNU/Linux, and Xen can be configured to either have the Windows machine be
    NAT'ed behind the GNU/Linux machine on a private LAN, or to have your
    physical network adapter act as a bridge - in which case both your
    GNU/Linux virtual machine and your Windows virtual machine need individual
    IP addresses on the subnet you're connecting your laptop to.

    Bear in mind that this will only work if your CPU, memory and I/O
    controllers have virtualization extensions, as is the case with all recent
    Intel and AMD machines. (Intel has VT (also known as Vanderpool), AMD has
    SVM (also known as AMD-V or Pacifica).)

    There is however a caveat... According to Microsoft, the EULA for the Home
    and Professional editions of Windows XP does not allow you to run those
    versions of Windows inside a virtual machine - whether it's via Xen,
    VirtualBox, VMWare, Bochs or whatever other virtualization technology.

    As such, you would be violating the law, so the responsibility is yours.
    Should you decide to go ahead and do it anyway and they throw you in jail,
    we won't come visit you.

    > I am also looking for a one stop shop where I can order and buy this
    > appliance.


    VMWare Player is free - as in "gratis", not as in "freedom" - but to my
    knowledge, the actual VMWare Workstation in which you can create virtual
    machines is offered commercially only, so if you want to use VMWare Player,
    you'd have to build a virtual Windows machine using another tool, e.g.
    Microsoft's Virtual PC.

    Xen and VirtualBox are Free & Open Source Software. Many GNU/Linux
    distributions already pack at least one virtualization solution along with
    the rest of the software. Fedora Core for instance comes with the Xen
    hypervisor, the Xen tools and a generic XenLinux kernel that can be used
    either as the management domain kernel - also known as "domain 0", "dom0"
    or "the host" - or as an unprivileged domain kernel - also known as "domain
    U", "domU" or "a guest".

    If your distribution does not come with any virtualization solution by
    default, then you can still download the free solutions from their
    respective websites, i.e.

    * Xen - http://www.xen.org

    * VMWare - http://www.vmware.com

    * VirtualBox - http://www.virtualbox.org

    There are also commercial solutions from XenSource - now the property of
    Citrix - or VMWare. It all depends on your needs and your preferences.

    Hope this was helpful... :-)

    --
    *Aragorn*
    (registered GNU/Linux user #223157)

  15. Re: Linux compatible laptop?

    On Sat, 10 May 2008 13:54:51 +0200, Aragorn wrote:


    > There is however a caveat... According to Microsoft, the EULA for the
    > Home and Professional editions of Windows XP does not allow you to run
    > those versions of Windows inside a virtual machine - whether it's via
    > Xen, VirtualBox, VMWare, Bochs or whatever other virtualization
    > technology.


    It's Vista which has the VM restriction, not XP. When XP came out it
    didn't occur to them that anyone would want to use desktop
    virtualization, the only cheap VM at the time was Win4Lin and that only
    worked with Win98. Now there are a lot of free VMs which work with XP so
    it's a real issue for them.

    You wouldn't want to run a Vista VM anyway, XP is by far the better
    choice. XP is lighter and it has much better application compatibility.
    You don't care about any OS features in a VM because you are just using
    it to run a few applications that you don't have Linux equivalents for.
    XP will be supported until 2012 although that's not really important with
    a VM because you don't care about driver updates or even security updates
    (assuming you follow my bubble boy rules that I describe in my other
    post). What's important is application support and that's not going to go
    away for years. Most MS app vendors still support 2K so they will
    undoubtedly continue to support XP for ate least 5 more years.

  16. Re: Linux compatible laptop?

    Ramu wrote:

    > My ask is a variation of this thread.
    >
    > I work as a project management consultant and while I am at the client
    > site, it is mostly a Microsoft shop where I have to use the
    > applications such as Word, Excel, MS Project, Powerpoint and Outlook
    > ("productivity apps").
    >
    > I am currently running Windows XP (need to go thru the "mandatory
    > upgrade" to Vista shortly) and I find that the amount of time the
    > laptop spends joining the domain and then starting Word, Outlook, etc
    > takes over 5 to 8 minutes.
    >
    > Here is my ASK:
    > Is there a way to configure Windows XP (or Vista) *AND* Linux to
    > jointly run on a laptop so that Linux is delivering the Internet (web)
    > experience while the non-Linux operating system is "reconfigured" to
    > focus only on productivity apps (mentioned above).


    In addition to all other replies you've gotten to your query, I would also
    like to add that Crossover Office is a special application of /wine/ -
    which stands for "Wine Is No Emulator" and makes up for a Windows ABI on
    top of UNIX systems - with which you can run MS Office applications on
    GNU/Linux natively.

    > I am also looking for a one stop shop where I can order and buy this
    > appliance.


    http://www.codeweavers.com/products/cxlinux/

    Crossover Office is a commercial solution only, though. /wine/ on the other
    hand comes as part of the software offer of just about any desktop-oriented
    GNU/Linux distribution, e.g. Mandriva, RedHat/CentOS/Fedora, SuSE, et al.

    --
    *Aragorn*
    (registered GNU/Linux user #223157)

  17. Re: Linux compatible laptop?

    In article ,
    Aragorn wrote:
    > Ramu wrote:
    >
    > > Here is my ASK:
    > > Is there a way to configure Windows XP (or Vista) *AND* Linux to
    > > jointly run on a laptop so that Linux is delivering the Internet (web)
    > > experience while the non-Linux operating system is "reconfigured" to
    > > focus only on productivity apps (mentioned above).

    >
    > Yes it is. Alongside the advice given to you by Bill Marcum regarding
    > VMWare, there is also another free option...: If your machine has hardware
    > virtualization support, you could use Xen as a hypervisor, running
    > underneath both GNU/Linux and Windows.
    >
    > The GNU/Linux virtual machine would be the "host" - although the host/guest
    > terminology is actually incorrect verbage in a Xen set-up - and the Windows
    > virtual machine would be the "guest".
    >
    > You would be using your Windows desktop from within an X11 window in
    > GNU/Linux,


    Or you whack a key combo, and it's full-screen. But don't expect Windows
    to see the Whizzbang-3000 video card you just bought -- IME, it always
    sees the one card VMware presents to it, a (restoring VMware to find out)
    "VMware SVGA II", which can be the same resolution as one of (? the
    larger of?) your X monitors. The same goes for the NIC and sound card,
    BTW -- Linux gets native access to them, and VMware emulates a specific
    card to its guest machine. Most of the time, this won't matter.

    > There is however a caveat... According to Microsoft, the EULA for the Home
    > and Professional editions of Windows XP does not allow you to run those
    > versions of Windows inside a virtual machine - whether it's via Xen,
    > VirtualBox, VMWare, Bochs or whatever other virtualization technology.


    Yeah, it's a different CPU, chipset, cards, monitor, the works.

    > As such, you would be violating the law, so the responsibility is yours.
    > Should you decide to go ahead and do it anyway and they throw you in jail,
    > we won't come visit you.


    Can you sell a license (e.g. to yourself, for a dollar)?

    > > I am also looking for a one stop shop where I can order and buy this
    > > appliance.

    >
    > VMWare Player is free - as in "gratis", not as in "freedom" - but to my
    > knowledge, the actual VMWare Workstation in which you can create virtual
    > machines is offered commercially only, so if you want to use VMWare Player,
    > you'd have to build a virtual Windows machine using another tool, e.g.
    > Microsoft's Virtual PC.


    If you have an XP license, you can make a blank VMware "hard drive" on
    which to install it (GIYF) and use it with VMWare Player.

    --
    -eben QebWenE01R@vTerYizUonI.nOetP royalty.mine.nu:81
    When we've nuked the world to a cinder, the ****roaches picking
    over the remains will be crawling over the remaining artifacts
    and wondering what "PC LOAD LETTER" means. -- PC / ASR

  18. Re: Linux compatible laptop?

    Hactar wrote:

    > In article ,
    > Aragorn wrote:
    >
    >> The GNU/Linux virtual machine would be the "host" - although the
    >> host/guest terminology is actually incorrect verbage in a Xen set-up -
    >> and the Windows virtual machine would be the "guest".
    >>
    >> You would be using your Windows desktop from within an X11 window in
    >> GNU/Linux,

    >
    > Or you whack a key combo, and it's full-screen.


    Yes, of course, but what I meant (and failed) to say was that you cannot
    have Windows control the hardware directly as if it were running on bare
    metal, so the GNU/Linux system and the VMWare Player would always be there
    underneath Windows.

    > But don't expect Windows to see the Whizzbang-3000 video card you just
    > bought -- IME, it always sees the one card VMware presents to it, a
    > (restoring VMware to find out) "VMware SVGA II", which can be the same
    > resolution as one of (? the larger of?) your X monitors.


    Exactly. Most of the hardware is being emulated, and only a small subset of
    the Windows instructions actually makes it to the processor directly, and
    then still, via a set of traps.

    >> There is however a caveat... According to Microsoft, the EULA for the
    >> Home and Professional editions of Windows XP does not allow you to run
    >> those versions of Windows inside a virtual machine - whether it's via
    >> Xen, VirtualBox, VMWare, Bochs or whatever other virtualization
    >> technology.

    >
    > Yeah, it's a different CPU, chipset, cards, monitor, the works.
    >
    >> As such, you would be violating the law, so the responsibility is yours.
    >> Should you decide to go ahead and do it anyway and they throw you in
    >> jail, we won't come visit you.

    >
    > Can you sell a license (e.g. to yourself, for a dollar)?


    I believe that the Microsoft EULA does not allow resale of the license.
    Basically, if the shrinkwrap plastic is removed from the box,
    you're /foobarred./

    --
    *Aragorn*
    (registered GNU/Linux user #223157)

  19. Re: Linux compatible laptop?

    On Sat, 10 May 2008 11:54:51 UTC in comp.os.linux.hardware, Aragorn
    wrote:

    > According to Microsoft, the EULA for the Home
    > and Professional editions of Windows XP does not allow you to run those
    > versions of Windows inside a virtual machine


    I think your information on this is out of date and this has now been rescinded.

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/01...isation_vista/

    --
    Trevor Hemsley, Brighton, UK
    Trevor dot Hemsley at ntlworld dot com

  20. Re: Linux compatible laptop?

    Trevor Hemsley wrote:

    > On Sat, 10 May 2008 11:54:51 UTC in comp.os.linux.hardware, Aragorn
    > wrote:
    >
    >> According to Microsoft, the EULA for the Home
    >> and Professional editions of Windows XP does not allow you to run those
    >> versions of Windows inside a virtual machine

    >
    > I think your information on this is out of date and this has now been
    > rescinded.
    >
    > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/01...isation_vista/


    I only know what I know about Windows and Microsoft from what I read on the
    internet and in magazines, and then I usually only read the stuff that
    pertains to Microsoft as a monopolist.

    I feel that I've already read enough about Windows internals to be bored
    about it and wonder how such an atrocious design could be permitted to
    still exist in this day and age. I don't use Windows myself, and it's
    already been ages again since I've installed Windows on anybody's machine.

    The last time I remember was when someone asked me to reinstall Windows 98
    SE on their machine after they had upgraded to WinME and nothing worked
    anymore. So that must have been... 2000, 2001? A long time ago
    anyway. ;-)

    --
    *Aragorn*
    (registered GNU/Linux user #223157)

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