I want to migrate to Linux - Hardware

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  1. I want to migrate to Linux

    I want to migrate from WIN98SE to Linux and am looking for advise.

    I recently built two Identical WIN98SE PCs. Even though I expect these
    machines to last many years I know someday they will wear out and WIN98SE
    compatible hardware will not be available. I have no intention of ever
    buying MS OS again so I must take action so I can continue building and
    using PCs in the future.

    One PC will serve as a test machine and the other will be my primary PC. My
    plan is to start by booting from a LiveCD, then install Linux in a dual
    boot with WIN98SE, then install just Linux. If I am successful I will
    abandon WIN98SE on both machines.

    My priorities in order of importance are:
    Support for my hardware. (I omitted a list for brevity in this first post
    but will supply if you are interested)
    Support for WINE so I may continue to use my current software for which
    there are no Linux alternatives.

    I need to get this OS up and running quickly with little previous
    knowledge. Until I have time to learn the syntax of Linux I need to pick a
    distro that supports point and click as much as possible. I have told my
    wife that she too is migrating to Linux and she also needs a point and
    click OS.

    I am considering the following distros and given my goals I would
    appreciate your input and or additional suggestions:
    PCLinuxOS
    Ubantu

    I chose this NG to post because it looks fairly active. If there is a
    better NG for my questions then please advise. Thank you for your help.

    --
    pcbldrNinetyEight

  2. Re: I want to migrate to Linux

    pcbldrNinetyEight wrote in
    news:Xns9A5097E8EC539pcbldrNinetyEight@216.168.3.4 4:

    > I want to migrate from WIN98SE to Linux and am looking for advise.
    >
    > I recently built two Identical WIN98SE PCs. Even though I expect these
    > machines to last many years I know someday they will wear out and
    > WIN98SE compatible hardware will not be available. I have no intention
    > of ever buying MS OS again so I must take action so I can continue
    > building and using PCs in the future.
    >
    > One PC will serve as a test machine and the other will be my primary
    > PC. My plan is to start by booting from a LiveCD, then install Linux
    > in a dual boot with WIN98SE, then install just Linux. If I am
    > successful I will abandon WIN98SE on both machines.
    >
    > My priorities in order of importance are:
    > Support for my hardware. (I omitted a list for brevity in this first
    > post but will supply if you are interested)
    > Support for WINE so I may continue to use my current software for
    > which there are no Linux alternatives.
    >
    > I need to get this OS up and running quickly with little previous
    > knowledge. Until I have time to learn the syntax of Linux I need to
    > pick a distro that supports point and click as much as possible. I
    > have told my wife that she too is migrating to Linux and she also
    > needs a point and click OS.
    >
    > I am considering the following distros and given my goals I would
    > appreciate your input and or additional suggestions:
    > PCLinuxOS
    > Ubantu
    >
    > I chose this NG to post because it looks fairly active. If there is a
    > better NG for my questions then please advise. Thank you for your
    > help.


    I forgot to mention. I am on dialup so I will buy my distro from
    OSDisc.com. I need a distro that is as complete as possible so I can avoid
    downloading large files. The distro discs are fairly cheap so I can afford
    to buy quite a few to experiment with. I have heard of a dependency
    manager. Will this find the files I need on the distro disc or will it try
    to download files?

    --
    pcbldrNinetyEight

  3. Re: I want to migrate to Linux

    pcbldrNinetyEight staggered into the Black Sun and said:
    > I want to migrate from WIN98SE to Linux and am looking for [advice].
    > I recently built two identical WIN98SE PCs.


    > One PC will serve as a test machine and the other will be my primary
    > PC. My plan is to start by booting from a LiveCD, then install Linux
    > in a dual boot with WIN98SE, then install just Linux. [I want]
    > support for my hardware.


    If your boxes can run 'Doze98, hardware support should not be a problem.
    'Doze98 is ancient. If you're worried, post the output of /sbin/lspci.

    > [I want] WINE so I [can] continue to use my current software for which
    > there are no Linux alternatives.


    Post the names of the programs you're using that don't have Linux
    builds, and people will probably be able to suggest ways to accomplish
    what you need.

    > I need to get this OS up and running quickly with little previous
    > knowledge. Until I have time to learn the syntax of Linux I need to
    > pick a distro that supports point and click as much as possible.


    Just remember that Linux Is Not 'Doze, and that KDE in its default
    config is the most 'Doze-like desktop environment that currently exists
    for Linux. There's an old proverb: "Learn to walk before you try to
    run." Follow its advice, and you will be less likely to fall on your
    face.

    > I have told my wife that she too is migrating to Linux


    Ordering people around like that doesn't typically work well. Let her
    do that at her own pace, and you and she will have fewer problems.

    > I am considering PCLinuxOS [and] [Ubuntu].


    Either one would probably work well for a first-time user. You might
    want to think about kUbuntu as well, as Ubuntu's default DE is GNOME.

    > I chose this NG to post because it looks fairly active.


    comp.os.linux.hardware is for discussing hardware support and problems
    under Linux. I think your questions would be more on-topic in
    comp.os.linux.setup and comp.os.linux.misc. However, you can't really
    read col.misc without a good killfile now because of all those damned
    spammers, and groups.google doesn't have killfile capabilities. (Of all
    the many deficiencies in that excuse for an NNTP client, its lack of a
    killfile is the most obvious.) HTH,

    --
    Due to inflation, your 40 acres and a mule have now been reduced to
    400 square feet and a guinea pig.
    =======Hire me! http://crow202.dyndns.org:8080/~mhgraham/resume/
    Matt G|There is no Darkness in Eternity/But only Light too dim for us to see

  4. Re: I want to migrate to Linux

    On Tue, 26 Feb 2008 20:55:56 +0000, pcbldrNinetyEight wrote:

    > I want to migrate from WIN98SE to Linux and am looking for advise.
    >
    > I recently built two Identical WIN98SE PCs. Even though I expect these
    > machines to last many years I know someday they will wear out and
    > WIN98SE compatible hardware will not be available. I have no intention
    > of ever buying MS OS again so I must take action so I can continue
    > building and using PCs in the future.
    >
    > One PC will serve as a test machine and the other will be my primary PC.
    > My plan is to start by booting from a LiveCD, then install Linux in a
    > dual boot with WIN98SE, then install just Linux. If I am successful I
    > will abandon WIN98SE on both machines.
    >
    > My priorities in order of importance are: Support for my hardware. (I
    > omitted a list for brevity in this first post but will supply if you are
    > interested) Support for WINE so I may continue to use my current
    > software for which there are no Linux alternatives.
    >
    > I need to get this OS up and running quickly with little previous
    > knowledge. Until I have time to learn the syntax of Linux I need to pick
    > a distro that supports point and click as much as possible. I have told
    > my wife that she too is migrating to Linux and she also needs a point
    > and click OS.
    >
    > I am considering the following distros and given my goals I would
    > appreciate your input and or additional suggestions: PCLinuxOS
    > Ubantu
    >
    > I chose this NG to post because it looks fairly active. If there is a
    > better NG for my questions then please advise. Thank you for your help.


    If you are on dialup you will want a stable distro. You have probably
    figured out that there are a lot distros available and they all have
    different objectives. Some distros aim to be up to the minute while
    others are targeted at people who want a distro that will be supported
    for a very long time and which requires the least amount of work to
    maintain it, these types of distros are called "stable". From a users
    point of view a stable distro will tend to have fewer features and it's
    components will be older and have fewer features. However they also have
    very many fewer updates than the cutting edge distros. In the Redhat
    family the cutting edge distro is Fedora, the stable distro is Redhat
    Enterprise Linux. Fedora generally has hundreds of megabytes of updates a
    week, RHEL has 1 or 2 megabytes per week. The reason that the update
    burden is so low on RHEL is that it only provides bug fixes and security
    patches, there are no new features or improvements as there are on
    Fedora. The free version of Redhat EL is called CentOS. The latest
    version of CentOS is 5.1. I recommend that you give CentOS 5.1 a try. In
    the Ubuntu family the stable version is designated by the extension LTS.
    The latest leading edge Ubuntu is 7.10, the latest LTS version is 6.06
    LTS. In both the CentOS and Ubuntu LTS cases the distros are vintage
    2006. I get the impression that you aren't using leading edge hardware so
    the age of these distros shouldn't be a problem for you. The advantage is
    that you will be able to update them using dialup because they have so
    many fewer updates. Actually I'm making an assumption that Ubuntu LTS is
    like CentOS because I'm a Fedora and CentOS user, I play with Ubuntu but
    I don't like it so I don't use it regularly. I can say with certainty
    that you will be able to do CentOS updates without a problem with CentOS
    5.1.



  5. Re: I want to migrate to Linux

    In message ,
    pcbldrNinetyEight wrote:

    > pcbldrNinetyEight wrote in
    > news:Xns9A5097E8EC539pcbldrNinetyEight@216.168.3.4 4:
    >
    >> I want to migrate from WIN98SE to Linux and am looking for advise.
    >>
    >> I recently built two Identical WIN98SE PCs. Even though I expect these
    >> machines to last many years I know someday they will wear out and
    >> WIN98SE compatible hardware will not be available. I have no intention
    >> of ever buying MS OS again so I must take action so I can continue
    >> building and using PCs in the future.
    >>
    >> One PC will serve as a test machine and the other will be my primary
    >> PC. My plan is to start by booting from a LiveCD, then install Linux
    >> in a dual boot with WIN98SE, then install just Linux. If I am
    >> successful I will abandon WIN98SE on both machines.
    >>
    >> My priorities in order of importance are:
    >> Support for my hardware. (I omitted a list for brevity in this first
    >> post but will supply if you are interested)
    >> Support for WINE so I may continue to use my current software for
    >> which there are no Linux alternatives.
    >>
    >> I need to get this OS up and running quickly with little previous
    >> knowledge. Until I have time to learn the syntax of Linux I need to
    >> pick a distro that supports point and click as much as possible. I
    >> have told my wife that she too is migrating to Linux and she also
    >> needs a point and click OS.
    >>
    >> I am considering the following distros and given my goals I would
    >> appreciate your input and or additional suggestions:
    >> PCLinuxOS
    >> Ubantu
    >>
    >> I chose this NG to post because it looks fairly active. If there is a
    >> better NG for my questions then please advise. Thank you for your
    >> help.

    >
    > I forgot to mention. I am on dialup so I will buy my distro from
    > OSDisc.com. I need a distro that is as complete as possible so I can avoid
    > downloading large files. The distro discs are fairly cheap so I can afford
    > to buy quite a few to experiment with. I have heard of a dependency
    > manager. Will this find the files I need on the distro disc or will it try
    > to download files?
    >

    Normally when you install from scratch you download updates after comlpeting
    the initial install, that could be another CD's worth of files, depending
    on which distro you choose and when it was released. At least you only need
    to reboot once when it's finished the updates though.

    As for running Windows stuff, if your machines are good enough then
    investigate the free VMWare server, that way you can run Win98SE in a
    virtual machine under Linux. It's how I now run Windows, it lives in a VM
    on my main Linux box.
    --
    Dave
    mail da ve@llondel.org (without the space)
    http://www.llondel.org
    So many gadgets, so little time

  6. Re: I want to migrate to Linux

    On Tue, 2008-02-26 at 20:55 +0000, pcbldrNinetyEight wrote:
    ....
    >
    > My priorities in order of importance are:
    > Support for my hardware. (I omitted a list for brevity in this first post
    > but will supply if you are interested)
    > Support for WINE so I may continue to use my current software for which
    > there are no Linux alternatives.


    Wine supports less than ~15% of Windows applications and less than
    ~5% of the top 1000 Windows applications. Just something to keep
    in mind.

    So in addition to providing hardware, you need to provide ALL of
    the software that you expect to get running using wine.

    >
    > I need to get this OS up and running quickly with little previous
    > knowledge. Until I have time to learn the syntax of Linux I need to pick a
    > distro that supports point and click as much as possible. I have told my
    > wife that she too is migrating to Linux and she also needs a point and
    > click OS.
    >
    > I am considering the following distros and given my goals I would
    > appreciate your input and or additional suggestions:
    > PCLinuxOS
    > Ubantu


    That's Ubuntu. Often cited as an easy to install use distro.
    PCLinuxOS LOOKS really, really nice when it installs ok... IMHO,
    it either works great or doesn't work at all. Really no middle
    ground.

    >
    > I chose this NG to post because it looks fairly active. If there is a
    > better NG for my questions then please advise. Thank you for your help.
    >


    I use openSUSE. It's pretty friendly... does have its share
    of quirks, but does come pretty complete. All usually have some
    kind of "problem" out of the box... not having access to online
    patches/updates is somewhat of a problem (definitely a problem
    is you care about security issues).

    As with Windows, the age where an OS out of the box is
    sufficient is gone... IMHO.

    My wife (non-techie) uses openSUSE as her base OS and has for
    several years now on her laptop(s). She also has the ability
    to run XP inside of a virtual machine to run software that
    wine (Crossover) is not able to handle currently.





  7. Re: I want to migrate to Linux

    Dances With Crows wrote in
    news:slrnfs9098.h0k.danceswithcrows@crow202.dyndns .org:

    > pcbldrNinetyEight staggered into the Black Sun and said:
    >> I want to migrate from WIN98SE to Linux and am looking for [advice].
    >> I recently built two identical WIN98SE PCs.

    >
    >> One PC will serve as a test machine and the other will be my primary
    >> PC. My plan is to start by booting from a LiveCD, then install Linux
    >> in a dual boot with WIN98SE, then install just Linux. [I want]
    >> support for my hardware.

    >
    > If your boxes can run 'Doze98, hardware support should not be a
    > problem. 'Doze98 is ancient.


    That's good to hear. I suspected as much.

    > If you're worried, post the output of /sbin/lspci.


    I assume you refer to a file that is created after I install Linux to my
    HD.

    >> [I want] WINE so I [can] continue to use my current software for
    >> which there are no Linux alternatives.

    >
    > Post the names of the programs you're using that don't have Linux
    > builds.


    I will wait until after I've had time to experiment with WINE.

    >> I need to get this OS up and running quickly with little previous
    >> knowledge. Until I have time to learn the syntax of Linux I need to
    >> pick a distro that supports point and click as much as possible.

    >
    > Just remember that Linux Is Not 'Doze, and that KDE in its default
    > config is the most 'Doze-like desktop environment that currently
    > exists for Linux. There's an old proverb: "Learn to walk before you
    > try to run." Follow its advice, and you will be less likely to fall
    > on your face.
    >
    >> I have told my wife that she too is migrating to Linux

    >
    > Ordering people around like that doesn't typically work well.


    Wouldn't couldn't force her to do anything. I only wanted to emphasize
    that I need a user friendly OS. I refurbished a PC for her for Christmas
    because she wanted her own. She's welcome to use her WIN98SE PC till
    smoke rolls out the back or parts are no longer available whichever
    comes first. Beyond that day???

    >> I am considering PCLinuxOS [and] [Ubuntu].

    >
    > Either one would probably work well for a first-time user. You might
    > want to think about kUbuntu as well, as Ubuntu's default DE is GNOME.


    I assume your saying that kUbantu uses a desktop other than GNOME
    possibly KDE and that it might be better for a beginner like me OK.

    --
    pcbldrNinetyEight

  8. Re: I want to migrate to Linux

    General Schvantzkopf wrote in
    news:Cpmdnbtc9NLUF1nanZ2dnUVZ_obinZ2d@comcast.com:

    > On Tue, 26 Feb 2008 20:55:56 +0000, pcbldrNinetyEight wrote:
    >
    >> I want to migrate from WIN98SE to Linux and am looking for advise.
    >>
    >> I recently built two Identical WIN98SE PCs. Even though I expect
    >> these machines to last many years I know someday they will wear out
    >> and WIN98SE compatible hardware will not be available. I have no
    >> intention of ever buying MS OS again so I must take action so I can
    >> continue building and using PCs in the future.
    >>
    >> One PC will serve as a test machine and the other will be my primary
    >> PC. My plan is to start by booting from a LiveCD, then install Linux
    >> in a dual boot with WIN98SE, then install just Linux. If I am
    >> successful I will abandon WIN98SE on both machines.
    >>
    >> My priorities in order of importance are: Support for my hardware. (I
    >> omitted a list for brevity in this first post but will supply if you
    >> are interested) Support for WINE so I may continue to use my current
    >> software for which there are no Linux alternatives.
    >>
    >> I need to get this OS up and running quickly with little previous
    >> knowledge. Until I have time to learn the syntax of Linux I need to
    >> pick a distro that supports point and click as much as possible. I
    >> have told my wife that she too is migrating to Linux and she also
    >> needs a point and click OS.
    >>
    >> I am considering the following distros and given my goals I would
    >> appreciate your input and or additional suggestions: PCLinuxOS
    >> Ubantu
    >>
    >> I chose this NG to post because it looks fairly active. If there is a
    >> better NG for my questions then please advise. Thank you for your
    >> help.

    >
    > If you are on dialup you will want a stable distro. You have probably
    > figured out that there are a lot distros available and they all have
    > different objectives. Some distros aim to be up to the minute while
    > others are targeted at people who want a distro that will be supported
    > for a very long time and which requires the least amount of work to
    > maintain it, these types of distros are called "stable". From a users
    > point of view a stable distro will tend to have fewer features and
    > it's components will be older and have fewer features. However they
    > also have very many fewer updates than the cutting edge distros. In
    > the Redhat family the cutting edge distro is Fedora, the stable distro
    > is Redhat Enterprise Linux. Fedora generally has hundreds of megabytes
    > of updates a week, RHEL has 1 or 2 megabytes per week. The reason that
    > the update burden is so low on RHEL is that it only provides bug fixes
    > and security patches, there are no new features or improvements as
    > there are on Fedora. The free version of Redhat EL is called CentOS.
    > The latest version of CentOS is 5.1. I recommend that you give CentOS
    > 5.1 a try. In the Ubuntu family the stable version is designated by
    > the extension LTS. The latest leading edge Ubuntu is 7.10, the latest
    > LTS version is 6.06 LTS. In both the CentOS and Ubuntu LTS cases the
    > distros are vintage 2006. I get the impression that you aren't using
    > leading edge hardware so the age of these distros shouldn't be a
    > problem for you.


    You guess right. I don't own, can't afford cutting edge hardware plus I
    value reliability over performance.

    > The advantage is that you will be able to update them
    > using dialup because they have so many fewer updates.


    Excellent.

    > Actually I'm
    > making an assumption that Ubuntu LTS is like CentOS because I'm a
    > Fedora and CentOS user, I play with Ubuntu but I don't like it so I
    > don't use it regularly. I can say with certainty that you will be able
    > to do CentOS updates without a problem with CentOS 5.1.


    I will add those distros to my list. Thanks.

    --
    pcbldrNinetyEight

  9. Re: I want to migrate to Linux

    On Tue, 26 Feb 2008 23:04:37 +0000, pcbldrNinetyEight wrote:

    > Dances With Crows wrote in
    > news:slrnfs9098.h0k.danceswithcrows@crow202.dyndns .org:
    >
    >> pcbldrNinetyEight staggered into the Black Sun and said:
    >>> I want to migrate from WIN98SE to Linux and am looking for [advice]. I
    >>> recently built two identical WIN98SE PCs.

    >>
    >>> One PC will serve as a test machine and the other will be my primary
    >>> PC. My plan is to start by booting from a LiveCD, then install Linux
    >>> in a dual boot with WIN98SE, then install just Linux. [I want]
    >>> support for my hardware.

    >>
    >> If your boxes can run 'Doze98, hardware support should not be a
    >> problem. 'Doze98 is ancient.

    >
    > That's good to hear. I suspected as much.
    >
    >> If you're worried, post the output of /sbin/lspci.

    >
    > I assume you refer to a file that is created after I install Linux to my
    > HD.
    >
    >>> [I want] WINE so I [can] continue to use my current software for which
    >>> there are no Linux alternatives.

    >>
    >> Post the names of the programs you're using that don't have Linux
    >> builds.

    >
    > I will wait until after I've had time to experiment with WINE.
    >
    >>> I need to get this OS up and running quickly with little previous
    >>> knowledge. Until I have time to learn the syntax of Linux I need to
    >>> pick a distro that supports point and click as much as possible.

    >>
    >> Just remember that Linux Is Not 'Doze, and that KDE in its default
    >> config is the most 'Doze-like desktop environment that currently exists
    >> for Linux. There's an old proverb: "Learn to walk before you try to
    >> run." Follow its advice, and you will be less likely to fall on your
    >> face.
    >>
    >>> I have told my wife that she too is migrating to Linux

    >>
    >> Ordering people around like that doesn't typically work well.

    >
    > Wouldn't couldn't force her to do anything. I only wanted to emphasize
    > that I need a user friendly OS. I refurbished a PC for her for Christmas
    > because she wanted her own. She's welcome to use her WIN98SE PC till
    > smoke rolls out the back or parts are no longer available whichever
    > comes first. Beyond that day???
    >
    >>> I am considering PCLinuxOS [and] [Ubuntu].

    >>
    >> Either one would probably work well for a first-time user. You might
    >> want to think about kUbuntu as well, as Ubuntu's default DE is GNOME.

    >
    > I assume your saying that kUbantu uses a desktop other than GNOME
    > possibly KDE and that it might be better for a beginner like me OK.


    I think you'll like Gnome better that KDE but it's easy to compare them
    and make your own decision.

    Which Windows applications do you use, we should be able to tell you what
    the Linux equivalents are. The only Windows apps that I still use are
    Quickbooks, Quicken and TaxCut, which I run in a VMware Win2K VM. I like
    Open Office a lot better than MS Office 2K which I was using (in a VM).
    Evolution is a great e-mail client which will seem very familiar to you
    because it's UI is Outlook like (but without the viruses). The only
    requirement for running VMware is that you have enough memory, my
    smallest machine has 2G, you might be able to get away with a little less
    than that.

  10. Re: I want to migrate to Linux

    On Tue, 26 Feb 2008 23:13:38 +0000, pcbldrNinetyEight wrote:

    > General Schvantzkopf wrote in
    > news:Cpmdnbtc9NLUF1nanZ2dnUVZ_obinZ2d@comcast.com:
    >
    >> On Tue, 26 Feb 2008 20:55:56 +0000, pcbldrNinetyEight wrote:
    >>
    >>> I want to migrate from WIN98SE to Linux and am looking for advise.
    >>>
    >>> I recently built two Identical WIN98SE PCs. Even though I expect these
    >>> machines to last many years I know someday they will wear out and
    >>> WIN98SE compatible hardware will not be available. I have no intention
    >>> of ever buying MS OS again so I must take action so I can continue
    >>> building and using PCs in the future.
    >>>
    >>> One PC will serve as a test machine and the other will be my primary
    >>> PC. My plan is to start by booting from a LiveCD, then install Linux
    >>> in a dual boot with WIN98SE, then install just Linux. If I am
    >>> successful I will abandon WIN98SE on both machines.
    >>>
    >>> My priorities in order of importance are: Support for my hardware. (I
    >>> omitted a list for brevity in this first post but will supply if you
    >>> are interested) Support for WINE so I may continue to use my current
    >>> software for which there are no Linux alternatives.
    >>>
    >>> I need to get this OS up and running quickly with little previous
    >>> knowledge. Until I have time to learn the syntax of Linux I need to
    >>> pick a distro that supports point and click as much as possible. I
    >>> have told my wife that she too is migrating to Linux and she also
    >>> needs a point and click OS.
    >>>
    >>> I am considering the following distros and given my goals I would
    >>> appreciate your input and or additional suggestions: PCLinuxOS Ubantu
    >>>
    >>> I chose this NG to post because it looks fairly active. If there is a
    >>> better NG for my questions then please advise. Thank you for your
    >>> help.

    >>
    >> If you are on dialup you will want a stable distro. You have probably
    >> figured out that there are a lot distros available and they all have
    >> different objectives. Some distros aim to be up to the minute while
    >> others are targeted at people who want a distro that will be supported
    >> for a very long time and which requires the least amount of work to
    >> maintain it, these types of distros are called "stable". From a users
    >> point of view a stable distro will tend to have fewer features and it's
    >> components will be older and have fewer features. However they also
    >> have very many fewer updates than the cutting edge distros. In the
    >> Redhat family the cutting edge distro is Fedora, the stable distro is
    >> Redhat Enterprise Linux. Fedora generally has hundreds of megabytes of
    >> updates a week, RHEL has 1 or 2 megabytes per week. The reason that the
    >> update burden is so low on RHEL is that it only provides bug fixes and
    >> security patches, there are no new features or improvements as there
    >> are on Fedora. The free version of Redhat EL is called CentOS. The
    >> latest version of CentOS is 5.1. I recommend that you give CentOS 5.1 a
    >> try. In the Ubuntu family the stable version is designated by the
    >> extension LTS. The latest leading edge Ubuntu is 7.10, the latest LTS
    >> version is 6.06 LTS. In both the CentOS and Ubuntu LTS cases the
    >> distros are vintage 2006. I get the impression that you aren't using
    >> leading edge hardware so the age of these distros shouldn't be a
    >> problem for you.

    >
    > You guess right. I don't own, can't afford cutting edge hardware plus I
    > value reliability over performance.
    >
    >> The advantage is that you will be able to update them using dialup
    >> because they have so many fewer updates.

    >
    > Excellent.
    >
    >> Actually I'm
    >> making an assumption that Ubuntu LTS is like CentOS because I'm a
    >> Fedora and CentOS user, I play with Ubuntu but I don't like it so I
    >> don't use it regularly. I can say with certainty that you will be able
    >> to do CentOS updates without a problem with CentOS 5.1.

    >
    > I will add those distros to my list. Thanks.


    Please post the specs for your machines. If you don't have a lot of RAM
    you will want to be looking at a lighter weight distro, Xubuntu for
    example. If you have 1G then you can run anything, 512M will run a Gnome
    system but you'll probably want to limit the number of applications that
    you have open at any one time. You can even run a Gnome system in as
    little as 384M but it's not particularly pleasant. Xubuntu uses a lighter
    weight window manager so it runs better on low spec machines. It won't be
    quite as user friendly as Ubuntu, but it's probably better than Win98.

  11. Re: I want to migrate to Linux

    On Tue, 26 Feb 2008 20:55:56 +0000, pcbldrNinetyEight wrote:

    [...]
    > Support for WINE so I may continue to use my current software for which
    > there are no Linux alternatives.

    [...]

    I read this entire thread as it exists on my news server. You never
    answered the question as to *what* these software programs are. If you
    did then that post has not yet shown up on my news server. Name them so
    we can help you.

    Gene (e-mail: gene \a\t eracc \d\o\t com)
    --
    Mandriva Linux release 2007.1 (Official) for i586
    Got Rute? http://www.anrdoezrs.net/email-25465...sbn=0130333514
    ERA Computers & Consulting - http://www.eracc.com/
    Preloaded PCs - eComStation, Linux, FreeBSD, OpenServer & UnixWare

  12. Re: I want to migrate to Linux

    pcbldrNinetyEight wrote:

    > I want to migrate from WIN98SE to Linux and am looking for advise.


    That is a *very* wise decision.

    > I recently built two Identical WIN98SE PCs. Even though I expect these
    > machines to last many years I know someday they will wear out and WIN98SE
    > compatible hardware will not be available.


    Not to mention that - or so I have read, as I don't use Windows - Microsoft
    has already stopped supporting Windows 98 SE with bugfixes and security
    updates a few years ago. ;-)

    > I have no intention of ever buying MS OS again so I must take action so I
    > can continue building and using PCs in the future.


    In my experience, most people transitioning from Windows to GNU/Linux (or
    any other UNIX-style OS) have difficulty un-learning the misinformation and
    Microsoft-indoctrinated misconception regarding what a computer is and how
    it's supposed to behave.

    However, if you really do commit yourself to honestly getting to know
    GNU/Linux, then I'm convinced you will be asking yourself why the hell you
    were ever using Windows in the first place. ;-)

    > One PC will serve as a test machine and the other will be my primary PC.
    > My plan is to start by booting from a LiveCD, then install Linux in a dual
    > boot with WIN98SE, then install just Linux. If I am successful I will
    > abandon WIN98SE on both machines.


    Okay... Rule of thumb when installing Windows in any dualboot configuration
    is to install Windows first. This is particularly required for more
    reasons than with the later, NT-based Windows versions because Windows 98
    still boots (and largely runs) off of a real mode DOS kernel, and must be
    installed in the first primary partition on the hard disk which is detected
    as the bootable disk by the BIOS at power-on, *and* this first primary
    partition must start within the first 32 MB on the hard disk.

    Install Windows as you normally would, and finalize the install procedure.
    Then reboot your machine with the GNU/Linux installation CD/DVD and use the
    remainder of the disk space for the partitioning layout - I will get into
    this farther down.

    The installer will want to set up a bootloader - you do need that, even if
    you're not setting up a dualboot system - and if it asks you where to
    install it, pick the master boot record of the first hard disk, _*not*_ the
    bootsector of the first partition, as that would overwrite the MS-DOS
    bootsector!

    In UNIX-style operating systems, all hardware devices are represented by the
    kernel to userspace by an abstraction layer in the form of a filesystem on
    disk, typically in the directory */dev.* In most modern GNU/Linux systems,
    the contents of */dev* are actually not on your disk but on a /tmpfs,/
    which is a RAM-based filesystem dynamically populated and managed by
    the /udev/ system, which in turn is automatically set-up as the default
    method of using */dev* in just about every modern GNU/Linux distribution.

    This nomenclature is not important from the user point of view with regard
    to where your files are located on your hard disk(s), but offers an
    abstraction layer to the hardware by which a set of extra operations -
    among which the mounting of the partitions at boot time, which is normally
    handled by your /init/ scripts, which in turn will be set up for you during
    installation - can be used. Using these block special devices, one could
    for instance make a mirror copy or an image of the contents of a partition
    or an entire hard disk. You should think of these block special files as
    being "raw devices", which you can read from and write to block by block
    (or sector by sector, if you will).

    In GNU/Linux, hard disks are thus represented as */dev/hda,* /dev/hdb* etc.
    for IDE devices, whereby the order is the following...:

    - */dev/hda* = primary IDE master
    - */dev/hdb* = primary IDE slave
    - */dev/hdc* = secondary IDE master
    - */dev/hdd* = secondary IDE slave
    - ...

    An IDE CD-ROM will then typically also be accessible as */dev/cdrom,* which
    will normally be a symbolic link - think of that as a Windows shortcut, but
    integrated into the filesystem layer itself, whereas in Windows a shortcut
    is a simple file which is recognized as a shortcut by its 3-character
    filename exension - to the appropriate IDE device.

    If on the other hand you have SATA or SCSI disks, the block devices - i.e.
    the files in */dev* representing the disks - will be labeled */dev/sda,*
    */dev/sdb,* etc. An SATA, SCSI or USB CD/DVD device will then be labeled
    */dev/sr0* or possibly */dev/scd0* for the first one, */dev/sr1* or
    */dev/scd1* for a second one, and so on.

    Partitions on hard disks are represented in the same way, with a block
    device named after the disk that it is on, but with a number appended to
    it. IDE/PATA hard disks can hold up to 63 partitions, but all hard disks
    using the SCSI protocol - i.e. SAS, parallel SCSI, SATA and USB disks - can
    hold up to 15 partitions only.

    The number in the block device name of a partition - i.e. the device special
    file under */dev* representing the file - is also important to understand
    what partition we're dealing with. Say for instance that you have one hard
    disk only in your computer, and that it is an SATA disk. And as you intend
    to set up Windows 98 SE on it in dualboot with GNU/Linux, Windows will be
    installed in a primary partition at the beginning of the hard disk, which
    for the sake of ease (since it is Windows 98) be the first one on the disk.

    With the above layout, your hard disk will be named */dev/sda* and your
    Windows partition, being a primary partition, will be named */dev/sda1.*

    Unless you have one of those latest state-of-the-art computers - e.g.
    something with Intel Itanium processors - you will have a legacy BIOS chip
    in your computer, and with such a legacy BIOS, you can only have up to four
    primary partitions per hard disk, i.e. partitions for which there is an
    entry in the partition table in the master boot record of your hard disk.

    This means that if you need or want more partitions than that, you'll have
    to start using logical partitions in an extended partition container. This
    extended partition container itself must in itself be a primary partition -
    i.e. a partition with an entry in the master boot record partition table -
    but it will serve as a container for logical partitions and feature its own
    extended partition table.

    The extended partition container will have the partition number associated
    with its rank in the master boot record partition table, so if the extended
    partition container is the second primary partition, it will be labeled
    */dev/sda2.* However, any logical partitions inside this extended
    partition container will always have 5 as the lowest partition number.
    This is because the numbers 1 to 4 are reserved for primary partitions
    (including the extended partition container itself).

    To give you a practical example, say that you have one primary partition and
    two logical partitions in an extended partition container - any partitions
    created from within DOS or Windows 98 alongside the main Windows "C:"
    partition will by definition be logical partitions in an extended partition
    container as DOS and Windows 98 cannot access or even see more than one
    primary partition per hard disk. Then your partitioning layout under
    */dev* would look something like this...:

    - */dev/sda* = the entire (first) SATA hard disk
    - */dev/sda1* = your Windows "c:" drive
    - */dev/sda2* = the extended partition container
    - */dev/sda5* = the 1st logical partition in the extended container
    - */dev/sda6* = the 2nd logical partition in the extended container

    Now, when it comes down to installing GNU/Linux, the GNU/Linux system
    doesn't give a damn about whether it is installed in a primary partition or
    a logical partition in an extended partition container, as long as the
    bootloader can find its kernel.

    However, there is something that does matter here, and that is that the
    Linux kernel prefers and typically uses a dedicated swap partition as
    opposed to the approach of using a swapfile in Windows. _Note: _ Linux
    *does* support swapfiles as well, but they are less efficient because they
    reside in a filesystem, whereas a swap partition is formatted in a special
    way and does not have a filesystem on it.

    As such, the most minimal GNU/Linux installation will require you to have a
    minimal two partitions for GNU/Linux itself - i.e. next to any
    Windows-specific partitions you wish to use - namely a root filesystem and
    a swap partition. And I say "a minimal", because in UNIX-style systems, it
    is possible to split off the contents of several (although not all)
    directories from the root filesystem.

    Most newcomers to GNU/Linux will typically opt for this minimal
    partitioning, but more advanced users know that it is actually a good thing
    to have separate filesystems for static and non-static, shareable and
    non-shareable data, as this minimizes the chances of filesystem corruption
    and file fragmentation - not that this really matters in GNU/Linux - and in
    addition it allows one to keep several of these filesystems mounted
    read-only during normal system operation, which forms an additional layer
    in security and filesystem integrity.

    Although most GNU/Linux newbies will - as mentioned above - use only a root
    filesystem and a swap partition, it is generally advised to at least split
    off */home* from the root filesystem to have your user files and the system
    files on different filesystems. This will prevent any screwups you indulge
    in from messing up the root filesystem - unless you're logged in as the
    root user of course, which you should *never* do unless you are performing
    system maintenance tasks - and at the same time it allows you to reformat
    the root filesystem - e.g. if you want to install another (version of your)
    distribution - without having to lose your data in */home.*

    In practice - the installer will take care of this for you if you tell it to
    - this means that the directory */home* would still be on the root
    filesystem, but its contents would reside on a different partition on
    either the same or a different hard disk. This separate filesystem will
    then automatically be mounted into the filesystem hierarchy at boot time,
    and from the user point of view, everything still looks the same, as
    GNU/Linux follows the UNIX-style convention of a standardized filesystem
    hierarchy, which you can read more about - if you're interested in the
    subject - here...:

    http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html

    With the example of a partitioning layout as we discussed higher up in mind,
    your set-up with a separate */home filesystem would look something like
    this - still provided that your hard disk is of the SATA type; if it is an
    IDE/PATA disk, then substitute the letters "sd" by "hd" in the summary
    below... Let's even expand this example and add a second FAT32 partition
    for Windows - we call that /vfat/ in UNIX-speak. ;-)

    - */dev/sda* = the entire hard disk
    - */dev/sda1* = Windows 98 "C:" drive
    - */dev/sda2* = the extended partition container
    - */dev/sda5* = Windows 98 "D:" drive
    - */dev/sda6* = GNU/Linux root filesystem - mounted on "/"
    - */dev/sda7* = Linux swap partition
    - */dev/sda8* = GNU/Linux user data filesystem - mounted on "/home"

    A typical, fully-fledged GNU/Linux distribution for desktop usage with all
    the whistles and bells for office work, multimedia, games, development
    tools etc. will require about 5-6 GB of diskspace (including enough space
    for temporary files and logs), and so you can give */home* the rest of
    what's available. More advanced users will also split off */var* (in which
    log files and printer spools are kept, and server-specific data such as
    e-mail, websites, et al), */tmp* (which is usually used for sockets - in
    UNIX, everything is a file ;-) - created by applications such as the KDE
    desktop environment and which is writeable to all users and therefore to be
    considered insecure), */usr* (which is where the bulk of multi-user
    software will be installed and which is pretty much a static filesystem)
    and */opt* (which is similar to */usr* but used mainly for applications
    that do not conform to the typical UNIX FHS layout of subdirectories) and
    */boot* (which is where the kernels and the GRUB bootloader configuration
    files live).

    Pretty much every other directory in the root directory itself needs to
    remain on the root filesystem as they contain files that are required at
    boot time or in single-user maintenance mode. There are however a few
    special directories that are worth mentioning...

    We've already discussed */dev* higher up, and we've also seen that its
    contents are usually on a /tmpfs/ - i.e. a swappable, RAM-based filesystem
    - in modern GNU/Linux distributions. But then there are */proc* and
    */sys*. These directories are filesystem-like kernel exports, but they do
    not consume _any_ diskspace. They form an abstraction layer through which
    the system administrator and high-privilege processes can interact with the
    kernel via a pseudo-filesystem.

    */sys* for instance is used - among others - by the /udev/ system, which
    creates or removes device special files in the */dev* directory - Windows
    users typically call directories "folders", but this is incorrect
    nomenclature ;-) - at boot time or when hardware is plugged into or removed
    from the system. As the kernel detects new hardware being plugged in, it
    will export data regarding this hardware to the /sysfs/ mounted on the
    */sys* directory and will trigger the /hotplug/ event, which will in turn
    allow /udev/ - an unprivileged (and thus safe) process - to read the data
    from */sys* and create the required device special files in */dev.*

    It all sounds pretty daunting as I've been pretty elaborate here considering
    that you are new to GNU/Linux, but if you read all of the above a few more
    times, you will come to understand and appreciate the logic in how a
    GNU/Linux system works. ;-)

    > My priorities in order of importance are:
    > Support for my hardware. (I omitted a list for brevity in this first post
    > but will supply if you are interested)


    A pretty recent Linux kernel supports most modern hardware and will
    typically support most older hardware as well. Heck, there is still even
    support for MFM and RLL hard disks in the kernel. ;-)

    > Support for WINE so I may continue to use my current software for which
    > there are no Linux alternatives.


    Wine is a bit tricky in that it doesn't support all Windows software. Some
    Windows software - notably that which requires DirectX support - will not
    work with the default version of Wine. There are however (commercial)
    versions of Wine such as Crossover Office and Cedega which are better at
    handling such applications. Crossover also contains browser plugins for
    typical Windows-oriented websites.

    > I need to get this OS up and running quickly with little previous
    > knowledge. Until I have time to learn the syntax of Linux I need to pick a
    > distro that supports point and click as much as possible. I have told my
    > wife that she too is migrating to Linux and she also needs a point and
    > click OS.


    Most desktop-oriented GNU/Linux distributions are extremely userfriendly
    these days and allow you to set up the system through a mouse-driven
    graphical user interface. In fact, several Windows-GNU/Linux comparisons
    in magazines stated that installing a modern GNU/Linux distribution with
    all application software happened faster and more effortless than
    installing Windows XP.

    Despite my display of some minor Windows knowledge higher up in this post, I
    don't use Windows, so I couldn't really tell, but what I do know is that
    I've already installed several complete GNU/Linux distributions on servers
    and workstations in timespans ranging from 15 minutes to about 2 hours -
    the latter being because I went over each and every package in order to
    decide whether or not to install the package. ;-)

    > I am considering the following distros and given my goals I would
    > appreciate your input and or additional suggestions:
    > PCLinuxOS


    Very good choice. Mandriva, from which PCLinuxOS is a spin-off, would also
    be a good choice.

    Do however bear in mind that freely downloadable distributions typically
    don't come with the proprietary drivers for video or wireless LAN adapters
    due to licensing restrictions, but installing those from the vendor's
    website should not be too hard. :-)

    > Ubantu


    Ubuntu seems to be one of the most popular distributions, along with its
    relatives Kubuntu, Xubuntu, Edubuntu and whatever else they have out these
    days. :-)

    Ubuntu uses Gnome as the desktop environment and will by default only
    install Gnome-compatible graphical applications. Kubuntu uses KDE as its
    desktop and will normally only install KDE-compatible graphical software.
    However, one can install KDE and KDE apps on Ubuntu or Gnome and Gnome apps
    on Kubuntu. Xubuntu uses XFCE 4 as the desktop environment, and Edubuntu
    is aimed especially towards children.

    > I chose this NG to post because it looks fairly active. If there is a
    > better NG for my questions then please advise. Thank you for your help.


    Well, anything hardware-related can normally be discussed here, but
    depending on your distribution of choice, more detailed and
    distribution-specific issues can be handled in the distribution-specific
    groups. I'm not sure whether there is an Ubuntu-specific group - I haven't
    checked - but Ubuntu and siblings are Debian-based, so the Debian groups
    should provide for some useful information as well. Similarly, if there is
    no PCLinuxOS-specific group, /alt.os.linux.mandriva/ may offer some useful
    information as PCLinuxOS was created by TuxStar, who used to work for
    Mandriva, formerly known as MandrakeSoft. ;-)

    Anyway, I hope the above was of any use to you.

    P.S.: If you choose to reply to this post of mine and you wish any more
    input from me - not that I consider myself to be any more important or any
    more knowledgeable than any of the other fine posters on this newsgroup;
    quite the contrary even! - then please trim away the irrelevant stuff as my
    ISP's newsserver drops all posts exceeding a certain amount of lines -
    typically around 250 - and will thus most likely also drop this very post
    itself for all of its clients.

    As such, I won't be seeing your replies if you leave the all of the stuff I
    wrote as quoted text in them, and my sense of responsibility would have me
    wondering whether you'd be talking to me without that I know. ;-)

    Additionally, most of the other users will be grateful towards you for
    trimming down lengthy posts - it saves up on bandwidth.

    --
    Aragorn
    (registered GNU/Linux user #223157)

  13. Re: I want to migrate to Linux

    General Schvantzkopf wrote in
    news:CpmdnbRc9NJPO1nanZ2dnUVZ_obinZ2d@comcast.com:

    > On Tue, 26 Feb 2008 23:13:38 +0000, pcbldrNinetyEight wrote:
    >
    >> General Schvantzkopf wrote in
    >> news:Cpmdnbtc9NLUF1nanZ2dnUVZ_obinZ2d@comcast.com:
    >>
    >>> On Tue, 26 Feb 2008 20:55:56 +0000, pcbldrNinetyEight wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> I want to migrate from WIN98SE to Linux and am looking for advise.
    >>>>
    >>>> I recently built two Identical WIN98SE PCs. Even though I expect
    >>>> these machines to last many years I know someday they will wear out
    >>>> and WIN98SE compatible hardware will not be available. I have no
    >>>> intention of ever buying MS OS again so I must take action so I can
    >>>> continue building and using PCs in the future.
    >>>>
    >>>> One PC will serve as a test machine and the other will be my
    >>>> primary PC. My plan is to start by booting from a LiveCD, then
    >>>> install Linux in a dual boot with WIN98SE, then install just Linux.
    >>>> If I am successful I will abandon WIN98SE on both machines.
    >>>>
    >>>> My priorities in order of importance are: Support for my hardware.
    >>>> (I omitted a list for brevity in this first post but will supply if
    >>>> you are interested) Support for WINE so I may continue to use my
    >>>> current software for which there are no Linux alternatives.
    >>>>
    >>>> I need to get this OS up and running quickly with little previous
    >>>> knowledge. Until I have time to learn the syntax of Linux I need to
    >>>> pick a distro that supports point and click as much as possible. I
    >>>> have told my wife that she too is migrating to Linux and she also
    >>>> needs a point and click OS.
    >>>>
    >>>> I am considering the following distros and given my goals I would
    >>>> appreciate your input and or additional suggestions: PCLinuxOS
    >>>> Ubantu
    >>>>
    >>>> I chose this NG to post because it looks fairly active. If there is
    >>>> a better NG for my questions then please advise. Thank you for your
    >>>> help.
    >>>
    >>> If you are on dialup you will want a stable distro. You have
    >>> probably figured out that there are a lot distros available and they
    >>> all have different objectives. Some distros aim to be up to the
    >>> minute while others are targeted at people who want a distro that
    >>> will be supported for a very long time and which requires the least
    >>> amount of work to maintain it, these types of distros are called
    >>> "stable". From a users point of view a stable distro will tend to
    >>> have fewer features and it's components will be older and have fewer
    >>> features. However they also have very many fewer updates than the
    >>> cutting edge distros. In the Redhat family the cutting edge distro
    >>> is Fedora, the stable distro is Redhat Enterprise Linux. Fedora
    >>> generally has hundreds of megabytes of updates a week, RHEL has 1 or
    >>> 2 megabytes per week. The reason that the update burden is so low on
    >>> RHEL is that it only provides bug fixes and security patches, there
    >>> are no new features or improvements as there are on Fedora. The free
    >>> version of Redhat EL is called CentOS. The latest version of CentOS
    >>> is 5.1. I recommend that you give CentOS 5.1 a try. In the Ubuntu
    >>> family the stable version is designated by the extension LTS. The
    >>> latest leading edge Ubuntu is 7.10, the latest LTS version is 6.06
    >>> LTS. In both the CentOS and Ubuntu LTS cases the distros are vintage
    >>> 2006. I get the impression that you aren't using leading edge
    >>> hardware so the age of these distros shouldn't be a problem for you.

    >>
    >> You guess right. I don't own, can't afford cutting edge hardware plus
    >> I value reliability over performance.
    >>
    >>> The advantage is that you will be able to update them using dialup
    >>> because they have so many fewer updates.

    >>
    >> Excellent.
    >>
    >>> Actually I'm
    >>> making an assumption that Ubuntu LTS is like CentOS because I'm a
    >>> Fedora and CentOS user, I play with Ubuntu but I don't like it so I
    >>> don't use it regularly. I can say with certainty that you will be
    >>> able to do CentOS updates without a problem with CentOS 5.1.

    >>
    >> I will add those distros to my list. Thanks.

    >
    > Please post the specs for your machines. If you don't have a lot of
    > RAM you will want to be looking at a lighter weight distro, Xubuntu
    > for example. If you have 1G then you can run anything, 512M will run a
    > Gnome system but you'll probably want to limit the number of
    > applications that you have open at any one time. You can even run a
    > Gnome system in as little as 384M but it's not particularly pleasant.
    > Xubuntu uses a lighter weight window manager so it runs better on low
    > spec machines. It won't be quite as user friendly as Ubuntu, but it's
    > probably better than Win98.



    Biostar NF325-A7
    http://www.biostar-usa.com/mbdetails.asp?model=nf325-a7

    Sempron 3100+ 64bit

    Patriot 512MB DDR 400, PC 3200 (one DIMM installed in each machine)
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820220027

    Seagate Barracuda ST380215A 80GB IDE HD
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822148236

    ZOGIS GeForce FX 5500, 256MB DDR, 128-bit, AGP 8X, VGA
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814131014

    Sony DVD AW-Q170A
    http://www.cyberguys.com/templates/S...roductID=12666

    IN WIN IW-J619T2.J350L+ Beige Mid Tower 350W
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811108056

    For the first of my twin PCs I built in November '07 I initally bought two
    Kingston DIMM from Newegg. One was bad and one was good. I returned the bad
    and they sent me bad in return. At that point I gave up. When I built the
    second PC in January I installed one Patriot 512MB DIMM.

    WIN98SE will not run with more than 512MB installed. I have a plan to
    modify it to accept 1GB but I haven't tried yet.

    I don't usually have more than about six apps open simultaneously. I can
    easily up both machines to 1GB each if this will improve Linux performance.
    If I dual boot I will be required to make WIN98SE accept 1GB of ram but
    that should be possible.

    I will reply to your other post later today with a list of apps for which I
    seek Linux equivalents. Thank you for your help.

    --
    pcbldrNinetyEight

  14. Re: I want to migrate to Linux

    pcbldrNinetyEight wrote:

    >> If you're worried, post the output of /sbin/lspci.

    >
    > I assume you refer to a file that is created after I install
    > Linux to my HD.


    /sbin/lspci is the program, that lists all hardware connected to
    the PCI bus.

    Wolfgang Draxinger
    --
    E-Mail address works, Jabber: hexarith@jabber.org, ICQ: 134682867


  15. Re: I want to migrate to Linux

    General Schvantzkopf wrote in
    news:CpmdnbVc9NKAAlnanZ2dnUVZ_obinZ2d@comcast.com:

    > On Tue, 26 Feb 2008 23:04:37 +0000, pcbldrNinetyEight wrote:
    >>>> I am considering PCLinuxOS [and] [Ubuntu].
    >>>
    >>> Either one would probably work well for a first-time user. You
    >>> might want to think about kUbuntu as well, as Ubuntu's default DE is
    >>> GNOME.

    >>
    >> I assume your saying that kUbantu uses a desktop other than GNOME
    >> possibly KDE and that it might be better for a beginner like me OK.

    >
    > I think you'll like Gnome better that KDE but it's easy to compare
    > them and make your own decision.
    >
    > Which Windows applications do you use, we should be able to tell you
    > what the Linux equivalents are.
    > I like Open Office a lot better than MS Office 2K which I was using
    > (in a VM). Evolution is a great e-mail client which will seem very
    > familiar to you because it's UI is Outlook like (but without the
    > viruses). The only requirement for running VMware is that you have
    > enough memory, my smallest machine has 2G, you might be able to get
    > away with a little less than that.


    The apps:
    TrueSpace 4.3 (this version untested in WINE)
    Bryce 4 (this version untested in WINE)
    Poser 4 (this version untested in WINE)
    iSpace 1.0 (unknown to WINE)
    LiveMotion 1.2 (unknown to WINE)
    DreamWeaver 3 (WINE silver)
    Fireworks 3 (WINE silver)
    Illustartor 9 (WINE silver)
    Photoshop 6 (WINE gold)
    Word 97 (WINE gold)
    DeepBurner
    DeepRipper
    Epson Smart Panel (for 1240U scanner)
    Presto OCR (or) TextBridge OCR (for 1240U scanner)
    Epson Twain 5 (for 1240U scanner)
    Epson Perfection 1240U scanner driver
    Epson Stylus PRO printer driver
    KB Gear Pablo USB drawing tablet driver
    Logitech 8.2 mouse driver (with smart move)
    NIC driver for onboard LAN, Biostar NF325-A7 MOBO
    FaxTalk Plus 3.0
    K-Meleon 1.1 (with full screen and tab browsing)
    X-News

    Utilities:
    AMD Cool 'n' Quiet
    WarpSpeeder (MOBO temp and voltage monitor)
    Starter (registry editor to control apps started at boot up)
    FontExplorer
    Many years worth of utilities for which Linux alternatives will likely
    not be needed.

    Games:
    EPIC Pinball
    NASCAR 1999
    IndyCar Racing 2
    Wing Commander 3
    Tie Fighter
    Many more DOS games that I rarely play anymore.
    Due to lack of gameport on new MOBO some of above are not currently
    playable. I may need a USB joystick.

    Of all of the above my graphics software is most important especially my
    3-D apps. They were very expensive and the learning curve was steep plus
    they are my most favorite toys.

    Networking Software:
    I have three PCs. Two with onboard LAN and one with Linksys LNE 100TX
    NIC connected by a D-Link DES 1105 switch. I use TCP/IP to manually
    assign IP addresses for this peer to peer wired network. All three PCs
    have internal dialup modems all of which can dial out. I don't need to
    know the nitty gritty details of how to set this up in Linux right now I
    just need to know that it can be done without too much trouble.

    --
    pcbldrNinetyEight

  16. Re: I want to migrate to Linux

    General Schvantzkopf wrote in
    news:B42dnfjZc8V9AVjanZ2dnUVZ_v3inZ2d@comcast.com:

    > On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 16:22:51 +0000, pcbldrNinetyEight wrote:
    >
    >> General Schvantzkopf wrote in
    >> news:CpmdnbRc9NJPO1nanZ2dnUVZ_obinZ2d@comcast.com:
    >>> Please post the specs for your machines. If you don't have a lot of
    >>> RAM you will want to be looking at a lighter weight distro, Xubuntu
    >>> for example. If you have 1G then you can run anything, 512M will run
    >>> a Gnome system but you'll probably want to limit the number of
    >>> applications that you have open at any one time. You can even run a
    >>> Gnome system in as little as 384M but it's not particularly
    >>> pleasant. Xubuntu uses a lighter weight window manager so it runs
    >>> better on low spec machines. It won't be quite as user friendly as
    >>> Ubuntu, but it's probably better than Win98.

    >>
    >> Biostar NF325-A7
    >> http://www.biostar-usa.com/mbdetails.asp?model=nf325-a7
    >>
    >> Sempron 3100+ 64bit
    >>
    >> Patriot 512MB DDR 400, PC 3200 (one DIMM installed in each machine)
    >> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820220027
    >>
    >> Seagate Barracuda ST380215A 80GB IDE HD
    >> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822148236
    >>
    >> ZOGIS GeForce FX 5500, 256MB DDR, 128-bit, AGP 8X, VGA
    >> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814131014
    >>
    >> Sony DVD AW-Q170A
    >> http://www.cyberguys.com/templates/S...roductID=12666
    >>
    >> IN WIN IW-J619T2.J350L+ Beige Mid Tower 350W
    >> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811108056
    >>
    >> For the first of my twin PCs I built in November '07 I initally
    >> bought two Kingston DIMM from Newegg. One was bad and one was good. I
    >> returned the bad and they sent me bad in return. At that point I gave
    >> up. When I built the second PC in January I installed one Patriot
    >> 512MB DIMM.
    >>
    >> WIN98SE will not run with more than 512MB installed. I have a plan to
    >> modify it to accept 1GB but I haven't tried yet.
    >>
    >> I don't usually have more than about six apps open simultaneously. I
    >> can easily up both machines to 1GB each if this will improve Linux
    >> performance. If I dual boot I will be required to make WIN98SE accept
    >> 1GB of ram but that should be possible.
    >>
    >> I will reply to your other post later today with a list of apps for
    >> which I seek Linux equivalents. Thank you for your help.

    >
    > You should definitely up the RAM to at least 1G, preferably 2G which
    > is what your motherboard can handle. Run Win98 in a VMware virtual
    > machine


    Can I test a VM with 512MB or is that hopeless?

    > A VM divorces the
    > hardware compatibility problem from the software compatibility issue.
    > For example your issue with total RAM goes away, you will just set the
    > VMs RAM space to be whatever Win98 can handle. You also don't have to
    > worry about drivers because the underlying Linux OS is taking care of
    > that problem. The Win98 VM talks to generic VMware devices, VMware
    > takes care of translating between Linux and Windows.


    I am very fuzzy on this VM thing. Will I install WIN98 in VM like I
    would a freshly formated drive? So Linux will supply drivers so WIN98
    can use my hardware? If so then that is excellent and when the day comes
    to build new PCs I could still run WIN98SE and not need any drivers. At
    that point I'll be able to build anything I want and run anything I
    want.

    > A Win98 VM will be pretty small as long as
    > you don't keep any data in it which you wouldn't want to do anyway.
    > You will keep all of your data on the Linux host where it can sit on a
    > modern file system instead of FAT32 and where it's easy to copy
    > between systems and to backup. The Win98 VM can access those
    > directories via SAMBA, if you do a network mount in Win98 they will
    > appear as Windows disks.


    Is SAMBA a file management tool? So I will keep the files I create with
    WIN apps on a drive other than the one that holds my apps? Will the
    files I create with my WIN apps still be readable by a WIN only PC?

    --
    pcbldrNinetyEight

  17. Re: I want to migrate to Linux

    pcbldrNinetyEight staggered into the Black Sun and said:
    [much snippage, he wants to know whether these things will work in Linux
    under wine or whether Linux equivalents for them exist]
    > TrueSpace 4.3 (this version untested in WINE)
    > Bryce 4 (this version untested in WINE)
    > Poser 4 (this version untested in WINE)
    > iSpace 1.0 (unknown to WINE)
    > LiveMotion 1.2 (unknown to WINE)


    Damned if I know. 3D work just isn't one of my major interests. If
    rendering speed isn't a big deal, you *might* be able to run these
    things under virtualbox or vmware, depending on various things.

    > Photoshop 6 (WINE gold) , Word 97 (WINE gold)


    openoffice.org and gimp?

    > DeepBurner , DeepRipper


    I assume these are CD/DVD programs. k3b and/or dvd::rip, depending on
    what exactly it is you want to do.

    > Epson Smart Panel (for 1240U scanner)


    The vast majority of Epson scanners and printers are supported with
    various SANE and CUPS backends. Check http://www.sane-project.org/ for
    scanners, http://www.linux-foundation.org/en/OpenPrinting for printers.

    > Presto OCR (or) TextBridge OCR (for 1240U scanner)


    There are AFAICT no good OCR programs that exist under Linux right now.
    Run these things in virtualbox/wine/vmware.

    > KB Gear Pablo USB drawing tablet driver


    Never heard of it. If it uses wacom-like protocols, it'll work, but you
    may have to fiddle with your xorg.conf in non-newbie-friendly ways. If
    it uses some bizarre protocol, it'll be a paperweight.

    > Logitech 8.2 mouse driver (with smart move)


    Huh? All USB mice are supported. All PS/2 mice should be supported. I
    don't think most people know what "smart move" is in this context, so
    maybe you should explain what it is you want your mouse to do. (It's
    pretty easy to bind mouse button presses to arbitrary actions using
    xbindkeys and xmacroplay.)

    > NIC driver for onboard LAN, Biostar NF325-A7 MOBO
    > AMD Cool 'n' Quiet
    > WarpSpeeder (MOBO temp and voltage monitor)


    These things are almost certainly supported. NICs by modules in the
    standard kernel, CPU frequency by cpufreqd, temperature and voltage by
    lm_sensors.

    > FaxTalk Plus 3.0


    People still use fax in this day and age? How primitive.

    > K-Meleon 1.1 (with full screen and tab browsing)


    This is the first I've heard of this project in 5 years. I thought it
    had been abandoned.

    > X-News


    xnews? There are more native NNTP clients for Linux than you can shake
    a stick at.

    > Starter (registry editor to control apps started at boot up)


    It's called "the SysV Init Layout", and is typically managed by
    rc-update or update-rc.d or chkconfig or another distro-specific tool.

    > FontExplorer


    What's this do?

    > EPIC Pinball , NASCAR 1999 , IndyCar Racing 2 , Wing Commander 3,
    > Tie Fighter


    These are old, so wine might work.

    > I manually assign IP addresses for this peer to peer wired network.


    It'd be easier to set up a DHCP server and lock the MAC addrs of all the
    boxes to particular IPs.

    > All three PCs have internal dialup modems, all of which can dial out.
    > I don't need to know the nitty gritty details of how to set this up in
    > Linux right now


    Yes, you do. Just about every PCI modem is a LoseModem. There are
    supported LoseModems and unsupported LoseModems. You need to boot each
    machine from a LiveCD and note the output from /sbin/lspci on all of
    them and post that info here. Do not rely on the 'Doze Device Mangler;
    it lies like a rug about important details.

    Most Lucent and Conexant LoseModems are reasonably easy to get working.
    It should be possible to get an Intel 82801 LoseModem working with
    slmodem, but I haven't needed to do that as I've had a decent Net drop
    for the last 5 years. Note that *ALL* LoseModems require evil
    binary-only code that usually can't be included on distro CDs for legal
    reasons. HTH anyway,

    --
    207. The following are not legal weapons in a duel: Steamrollers,
    Nerve Gas, Land Mines, Midgets.
    =======Hire me! http://crow202.dyndns.org:8080/~mhgraham/resume/
    Matt G|There is no Darkness in Eternity/But only Light too dim for us to see

  18. Re: I want to migrate to Linux

    Dances With Crows ha scritto:
    > pcbldrNinetyEight staggered into the Black Sun and said:
    > [much snippage, he wants to know whether these things will work in Linux
    > under wine or whether Linux equivalents for them exist]
    >> TrueSpace 4.3 (this version untested in WINE)
    >> Bryce 4 (this version untested in WINE)
    >> Poser 4 (this version untested in WINE)
    >> iSpace 1.0 (unknown to WINE)
    >> LiveMotion 1.2 (unknown to WINE)

    >
    > Damned if I know. 3D work just isn't one of my major interests. If
    > rendering speed isn't a big deal, you *might* be able to run these
    > things under virtualbox or vmware, depending on various things.


    Anyway, for 3D drawing there is Blender.

    >> Photoshop 6 (WINE gold) , Word 97 (WINE gold)

    >
    > openoffice.org and gimp?


    Of course.


    >
    >> NIC driver for onboard LAN, Biostar NF325-A7 MOBO
    >> AMD Cool 'n' Quiet
    >> WarpSpeeder (MOBO temp and voltage monitor)

    >
    > These things are almost certainly supported. NICs by modules in the
    > standard kernel, CPU frequency by cpufreqd, temperature and voltage by
    > lm_sensors.


    more than "supported", I would say "built-in".

    >> FaxTalk Plus 3.0

    >
    > People still use fax in this day and age? How primitive.


    Anyway, there are efax, gfax etc.

    >> K-Meleon 1.1 (with full screen and tab browsing)

    >
    > This is the first I've heard of this project in 5 years. I thought it
    > had been abandoned.


    And of course the linux default browser (Firefox) has both tab browsing,
    full screen and much more.


    >> Starter (registry editor to control apps started at boot up)

    >
    > It's called "the SysV Init Layout", and is typically managed by
    > rc-update or update-rc.d or chkconfig or another distro-specific tool.


    Also this is "built-in", and since many many many years, since the very
    beginning.

    >> FontExplorer

    >
    > What's this do?


    Don't know in KDE, but in Gnome font-browsing is built-in too.


    >> I manually assign IP addresses for this peer to peer wired network.

    >
    > It'd be easier to set up a DHCP server and lock the MAC addrs of all the
    > boxes to particular IPs.


    And anyway the network setup is much more straightforward and logical
    than in Windows, where there is a mess between network and internet
    connection !

    >
    > Yes, you do. Just about every PCI modem is a LoseModem.



    That's the reason why my wife refuses to use the internal modem of her
    old Win98 notebook and prefers to hook a good old plain serial modem in
    the serial port

  19. Re: I want to migrate to Linux


    > Can I test a VM with 512MB or is that hopeless?

    Probably, especially with Win98 which will run in a small amount. For
    testing purposes I'd set the VM's memory space to 128M, you might be able
    to set it lower to something like 64M. It's been a very long time since
    I've dealt with Win98 but as I recall 64M was probably the typical memory
    size of a PC in the days when W98 was current.

    > I am very fuzzy on this VM thing. Will I install WIN98 in VM like I
    > would a freshly formated drive? So Linux will supply drivers so WIN98
    > can use my hardware? If so then that is excellent and when the day comes
    > to build new PCs I could still run WIN98SE and not need any drivers. At
    > that point I'll be able to build anything I want and run anything I
    > want.


    VMware has this very straight forward GUI that allows you to create a VM.
    When you create the VM you can have it use the real CDROM in your system
    or you can attach an ISO as the CDROM. After you have created the VM all
    you do is boot it and it will operate exactly as a real PC would. The
    virtual BIOS will look for a boot sector on the virtual disk (which you
    defined when you created the VM). It won't find a boot sector so it will
    look for a CDROM to boot off of. It will find your Win98 install CD and
    then boot the installer. You will then do an install just as you would if
    you were doing it on a real machine. The reboots that Windows requires
    during an install are a lot faster than a real reboot so the install
    process will be faster than it would be on real hardware.

    After you have done the install and all of the updates to the Win98 OS
    you'll install all of your software. Once again you do this exactly as
    you would on a real machine. When you have finished setting up the VM in
    the way that you want it you should save a copy somewhere so that you can
    restore it if it gets broken. Also you can copy that VM to another system
    and use it there. Once you have created your Win98 VM you never need to
    do it again. If you put the VM on another system all you will have to do
    is change it's IP address (assuming that you are using static IPs) and
    it's hostname so they won't clash with each other on your network. You
    make these changes in Win98 exactly as you would if they were running on
    real hardware.

    One more thing. The Windows desktop is displayed in a VMWare console
    window. The desktop gets autosized if you change the console window size.
    Gnome supports multiple virtual desktops. You can flip between desktops
    by clicking on a little windowpane icon on your toolbar. What I usually
    do is put my Windows desktop in it's own Gnome desktop so that it doesn't
    interfere with my Linux apps. However you can also have Linux apps in the
    same desktop if you want which is frequently convenient. For example you
    might want to cut and paste something between the Linux app and the
    Windows app (VMware supports cutting and pasting between Linux and
    Windows).


    > Is SAMBA a file management tool? So I will keep the files I create with
    > WIN apps on a drive other than the one that holds my apps? Will the
    > files I create with my WIN apps still be readable by a WIN only PC?


    SAMBA is the Windows networking server in *nix. You can share Linux
    directories with Windows systems (real or virtual) and you can access
    shared Windows folders from Linux. You can also share printers. Linux
    distros all contain a SAMBA configuration GUI but I prefer using Webmin.
    Webmin is a browser based administration tool that works on most Linux
    and Unix systems. After you have Webmin installed on your system you
    access it from any browser on your network by accessing port 10000 on
    that system, i.e. https://machinename:10000. The Webmin modules are much
    better thought out than any of the distro based admin GUIs. They are
    pretty self explanatory, and they will also allow you to see at a glance
    which options you have available. The other good thing about Webmin is
    that it's common to every distro so if you decide to have Ubuntu on one
    box and CentOS on another you can administer them identically. If you use
    the distros tools then you will be faced with a different set of admin
    GUIs on every distro. Redhat, Ubuntu, Suse all have fairly easy to use
    GUIs and they all accomplish the same things, but they are all different.
    Webmin works on all of them. You can get Webmin from,

    http://www.webmin.com

    On Redhat and Ubuntu systems it's a one click install. You click on the
    download and the package installer will pop up automatically when the
    download is done.


  20. Re: I want to migrate to Linux

    General Schvantzkopf wrote in
    news:KfSdnW7OJqrJd1janZ2dnUVZ_qrinZ2d@comcast.com:

    >> Can I test a VM with 512MB or is that hopeless?

    > Probably, especially with Win98 which will run in a small amount.
    >
    >> I am very fuzzy on this VM thing. Will I install WIN98 in VM like I
    >> would a freshly formated drive? So Linux will supply drivers so WIN98
    >> can use my hardware? If so then that is excellent and when the day
    >> comes to build new PCs I could still run WIN98SE and not need any
    >> drivers. At that point I'll be able to build anything I want and run
    >> anything I want.

    >
    > VMware has this very straight forward GUI that allows you to create a
    > VM. When you create the VM you can have it use the real CDROM in your
    > system or you can attach an ISO as the CDROM. After you have created
    > the VM all you do is boot it and it will operate exactly as a real PC
    > would. The virtual BIOS will look for a boot sector on the virtual
    > disk (which you defined when you created the VM).


    Many and sundry virtuals. Will Lawnmower Man or Max Headroom make an
    appearance too? ;-)

    > It won't find a boot
    > sector so it will look for a CDROM to boot off of. It will find your
    > Win98 install CD and then boot the installer. You will then do an
    > install just as you would if you were doing it on a real machine. The
    > reboots that Windows requires during an install are a lot faster than
    > a real reboot so the install process will be faster than it would be
    > on real hardware.


    I want be sure I understand this. After a typical WIN98SE install there
    are several missing drivers in Device Manager. These are fixed by
    installing the MOBO and VGA drivers. Can I assume that this is no longer
    necessary because Linux dealt with this when it was installed?

    Can I also assume that any drivers needed for adapter cards found by
    Plug and Play are already dealt with by Linux so there is nothing for me
    to do?

    > After you have done the install and all of the updates to the Win98 OS
    > you'll install all of your software. Once again you do this exactly as
    > you would on a real machine. When you have finished setting up the VM
    > in the way that you want it you should save a copy somewhere so that
    > you can restore it if it gets broken. Also you can copy that VM to
    > another system and use it there. Once you have created your Win98 VM
    > you never need to do it again. If you put the VM on another system all
    > you will have to do is change it's IP address (assuming that you are
    > using static IPs) and it's hostname so they won't clash with each
    > other on your network. You make these changes in Win98 exactly as you
    > would if they were running on real hardware.


    Yes. Since I use a switch and not a router I have no DHCP so I must
    assign static IP addresses for each PC in my network. I will configure
    my network just as I would on a normal PC in Network in Control Panel by
    adding the necessary protocols and configuring TCP/IP for the NICS and
    Dialup Networking.

    > One more thing. The Windows desktop is displayed in a VMWare console
    > window. The desktop gets autosized if you change the console window
    > size. Gnome supports multiple virtual desktops. You can flip between
    > desktops by clicking on a little windowpane icon on your toolbar. What
    > I usually do is put my Windows desktop in it's own Gnome desktop so
    > that it doesn't interfere with my Linux apps. However you can also
    > have Linux apps in the same desktop if you want which is frequently
    > convenient. For example you might want to cut and paste something
    > between the Linux app and the Windows app (VMware supports cutting and
    > pasting between Linux and Windows).
    >
    >> Is SAMBA a file management tool? So I will keep the files I create
    >> with WIN apps on a drive other than the one that holds my apps? Will
    >> the files I create with my WIN apps still be readable by a WIN only
    >> PC?

    >
    > SAMBA is the Windows networking server in *nix. You can share Linux
    > directories with Windows systems (real or virtual) and you can access
    > shared Windows folders from Linux.


    So a networking server is used to manage drives, directories and files.
    I am not familiar with the use of the word "network server" in this
    context but as long as I can find my stuff with Samba (or Webmin) then
    all is well.

    > You can also share printers. Linux
    > distros all contain a SAMBA configuration GUI but I prefer using
    > Webmin. Webmin is a browser based administration tool that works on
    > most Linux and Unix systems. After you have Webmin installed on your
    > system you access it from any browser on your network by accessing
    > port 10000 on that system, i.e. https://machinename:10000.


    So I use a browser (as in web browser) to share hardware or access
    drives, or directories or files? The top of my head is coming loose.

    > The Webmin
    > modules are much better thought out than any of the distro based admin
    > GUIs. They are pretty self explanatory, and they will also allow you
    > to see at a glance which options you have available. The other good
    > thing about Webmin is that it's common to every distro so if you
    > decide to have Ubuntu on one box and CentOS on another you can
    > administer them identically. If you use the distros tools then you
    > will be faced with a different set of admin GUIs on every distro.
    > Redhat, Ubuntu, Suse all have fairly easy to use GUIs and they all
    > accomplish the same things, but they are all different. Webmin works
    > on all of them. You can get Webmin from,
    >
    > http://www.webmin.com
    >
    > On Redhat and Ubuntu systems it's a one click install. You click on
    > the download and the package installer will pop up automatically when
    > the download is done.


    I wonder if I dare ask this question. I'm already in way over my head.
    How is networking as in the NICs and TCP/IP configured after Linux is
    installed but without or before WIN98 is installed? Lets assume I was
    building a Linux only system.

    --
    pcbldrNinetyEight

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