I want to migrate to Linux - Hardware

This is a discussion on I want to migrate to Linux - Hardware ; pcbldrNinetyEight wrote: ..... > The apps: > TrueSpace 4.3 (this version untested in WINE) > Bryce 4 (this version untested in WINE) > Poser 4 (this version untested in WINE) > iSpace 1.0 (unknown to WINE) > LiveMotion 1.2 (unknown ...

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Thread: I want to migrate to Linux

  1. Re: I want to migrate to Linux

    pcbldrNinetyEight wrote:
    .....
    > The apps:
    > TrueSpace 4.3 (this version untested in WINE)
    > Bryce 4 (this version untested in WINE)
    > Poser 4 (this version untested in WINE)
    > iSpace 1.0 (unknown to WINE)
    > LiveMotion 1.2 (unknown to WINE)
    > DreamWeaver 3 (WINE silver)
    > Fireworks 3 (WINE silver)
    > Illustartor 9 (WINE silver)
    > Photoshop 6 (WINE gold)
    > Word 97 (WINE gold)
    > DeepBurner
    > DeepRipper
    > Epson Smart Panel (for 1240U scanner)
    > Presto OCR (or) TextBridge OCR (for 1240U scanner)
    > Epson Twain 5 (for 1240U scanner)
    > Epson Perfection 1240U scanner driver
    > Epson Stylus PRO printer driver
    > KB Gear Pablo USB drawing tablet driver
    > Logitech 8.2 mouse driver (with smart move)
    > NIC driver for onboard LAN, Biostar NF325-A7 MOBO
    > FaxTalk Plus 3.0
    > K-Meleon 1.1 (with full screen and tab browsing)
    > X-News
    >
    > Utilities:
    > AMD Cool 'n' Quiet
    > WarpSpeeder (MOBO temp and voltage monitor)
    > Starter (registry editor to control apps started at boot up)
    > FontExplorer
    > Many years worth of utilities for which Linux alternatives will likely
    > not be needed.
    >
    > Games:
    > EPIC Pinball
    > NASCAR 1999
    > IndyCar Racing 2
    > Wing Commander 3
    > Tie Fighter
    > Many more DOS games that I rarely play anymore.
    > Due to lack of gameport on new MOBO some of above are not currently
    > playable. I may need a USB joystick.


    The fast answer is no way for at least 80-90% of the list. Which
    is roughly "correct" with most guestimates. Some of the "silvers"
    and "golds" are not as gold and silver as most people demand. Just
    fyi.

    >
    > Of all of the above my graphics software is most important especially my
    > 3-D apps. They were very expensive and the learning curve was steep plus
    > they are my most favorite toys.


    Running 3D apps under VMware (for example) doesn't work well enough...
    I'm afraid if those things are critical to you, you have no choice
    but to continue on the path you have chosen.

    The alternative is to learn how to use free software instead of
    software that is designed (intentionally) to lock you into
    Windows or OSX. No offense, but Linux IS NOT a Microsoft product...
    and if what you are saying is true, what you are wanting IS
    a Microsoft product. Which is fine... to each his/her own.

    There IS a learning curve with Linux. And learning different
    applications is a part of that... and so is living without
    some applications. BUT you have to remember that with most
    GNU/Linux distributions, you get a BUNDLE of applications.
    Equivalent worth in Microsoft terms would be well into the
    $$$$$$ range (most people couldn't afford to pay 6 figures
    for their home computer software).

    >
    > Networking Software:
    > I have three PCs. Two with onboard LAN and one with Linksys LNE 100TX
    > NIC connected by a D-Link DES 1105 switch. I use TCP/IP to manually
    > assign IP addresses for this peer to peer wired network. All three PCs
    > have internal dialup modems all of which can dial out. I don't need to
    > know the nitty gritty details of how to set this up in Linux right now I
    > just need to know that it can be done without too much trouble.
    >


    There are a plethora of resources showing how to do this. Not hard.

    At the moment I am NOT optimistic with regards to your migration
    to Linux.


  2. Re: I want to migrate to Linux

    Aragorn wrote in
    news:3Ebxj.225035$901.92433@newsfet12.ams:

    > pcbldrNinetyEight wrote:
    >
    >> I want to migrate from WIN98SE to Linux and am looking for advise.


    comment about>

    > It all sounds pretty daunting as I've been pretty elaborate here
    > considering that you are new to GNU/Linux, but if you read all of the
    > above a few more times, you will come to understand and appreciate the
    > logic in how a GNU/Linux system works. ;-)
    >
    > Most desktop-oriented GNU/Linux distributions are extremely
    > userfriendly these days and allow you to set up the system through a
    > mouse-driven graphical user interface.


    Can the partioning be accomplished by point and click?

    > Edubuntu is aimed especially towards children.


    I'm feeling particularly dim now so this might be for me.

    Assuming I can come to grips with all of these concepts I can't picture
    being able to sit in front of a PC and make any practical use of this at
    the command line given my current lack of experience. I don't want to
    sound like a broken record but how much of this can I do while still
    avoiding the command line?

    Are there any online step by step walk throughs that would be suitable
    given what I want to do?

    Can you recommend any beginner books like "Linux for the totally
    clueless" ;-) Thank you for your help.

    --
    pcbldrNinetyEight

  3. Re: I want to migrate to Linux

    Chris Cox wrote in
    news:13sc6t5kfbfh7ae@corp.supernews.com:

    > pcbldrNinetyEight wrote:




    > At the moment I am NOT optimistic with regards to your migration
    > to Linux.


    I am.

    --
    pcbldrNinetyEight

  4. Re: I want to migrate to Linux


    When you install an OS in VMware it sees virtual devices not the actual
    devices in the machine. These devices are either so generic that you
    don't need drivers or they use the drivers that are included in VMware.
    These drivers are called VMware Tools. After you do the OS install and
    you have booted into the OS the graphics will be running VGA mode just
    like they would be if you had installed the OS on real hardware and you
    hadn't installed the graphics driver. There is a menu item called Install
    VMware tools, when you select that Windows will think you have mounted a
    driver disk. You run the installer for VMware Tools and it will install
    all of the drivers that you need. After you've installed VMware tools and
    done a reboot you will have full functionality. You will not need any
    drivers for the real hardware, just for VMware.

    Networking is configured after you have done the install not before. You
    follow the same steps you would on real hardware,

    1) Install OS
    2) Install drivers (i.e. install VMware Tools), reboot
    3) Setup networking in Win98. You can use static IPs or you can use DHCP.
    Linux has a DHCP server included, you don't need a router.

    SAMBA allows Linux to share folders with Windows. At it simplest it's
    like turning on sharing in Windows. SAMBA does a lot more than this also,
    it can do everything that Windows Server can do. However all you need is
    the base functionality. You would use SAMBA to share Linux directories,
    you would mount them in Windows in exactly the same manner as if you had
    shared them from another Win98 machine.

    The browser interface is for Webmin. Think of it as a super Control Panel
    where all of the control panels are in a browser window. You don't need
    to use Webmin, I was just suggesting it because I think it's easier and
    more powerful than the administration tools that Ubuntu provides. Ubuntu
    provides a very Windows like control panel. I hate it because it's so
    much like Windows, but you will probably be comfortable with it.



  5. Re: I want to migrate to Linux

    On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 02:30:40 +0000, pcbldrNinetyEight wrote:

    > Aragorn wrote in
    > news:3Ebxj.225035$901.92433@newsfet12.ams:
    >
    >> pcbldrNinetyEight wrote:
    >>
    >>> I want to migrate from WIN98SE to Linux and am looking for advise.

    >
    > > comment about>
    >
    >> It all sounds pretty daunting as I've been pretty elaborate here
    >> considering that you are new to GNU/Linux, but if you read all of the
    >> above a few more times, you will come to understand and appreciate the
    >> logic in how a GNU/Linux system works. ;-)
    >>
    >> Most desktop-oriented GNU/Linux distributions are extremely
    >> userfriendly these days and allow you to set up the system through a
    >> mouse-driven graphical user interface.

    >
    > Can the partioning be accomplished by point and click?
    >
    >> Edubuntu is aimed especially towards children.

    >
    > I'm feeling particularly dim now so this might be for me.
    >
    > Assuming I can come to grips with all of these concepts I can't picture
    > being able to sit in front of a PC and make any practical use of this at
    > the command line given my current lack of experience. I don't want to
    > sound like a broken record but how much of this can I do while still
    > avoiding the command line?
    >
    > Are there any online step by step walk throughs that would be suitable
    > given what I want to do?
    >
    > Can you recommend any beginner books like "Linux for the totally
    > clueless" ;-) Thank you for your help.


    You can do everything without the command line. Gnome is a much more
    powerful GUI than what you get with any Microsoft product including
    Vista, it's as good as a Mac. All sorts of things will just work without
    your having to install any additional software. For example you listed
    applications for burning DVDs. In Gnome when you stick a blank DVD into
    the system the CD/DVD burner application pops up automatically. You can
    then drag folders into the window and burn the DVD. You won't need Nero
    or anything like that. Another example is plugging in a FLASH card from
    your camera. When you plug it in it will mount automatically. In addition
    it will find the JPEGs on it's own. A dialog will pop up and ask you if
    you want to copy the pictures to your home directory.

    My suggestion to you is to just give a few distros a try. Ubuntu has a
    Live CD, do does Fedora 8. You can boot the Live CDs and run Linux
    without having to do an install. It will be slower than an installed
    version and it will have only a minimal number of applications but you
    can get the feel of how Linux works. Please remember that Linux isn't
    Windows, but when you get to know it you will find that it's much much
    better. However you will have to spend a little time to get the feel of
    it.

  6. Re: I want to migrate to Linux

    On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 21:34:03 +0000, Dances With Crows wrote:

    >> Epson Smart Panel (for 1240U scanner)

    >
    > The vast majority of Epson scanners and printers are supported with
    > various SANE and CUPS backends. Check http://www.sane-project.org/ for
    > scanners, http://www.linux-foundation.org/en/OpenPrinting for printers.


    For even better support try Epson's own Linux drivers for their products:

    http://avasys.jp/hp/menu000000500/hpg000000442.htm

    Using honest to goodness Epson drivers was the only way I could find to
    get an Epson CX8400 to print correctly for one of our Linux desktop
    customers.

    Read the report on it here:

    http://openprinting.org/show_printer...-Stylus_CX8400

    Gene (e-mail: gene \a\t eracc \d\o\t com)
    --
    Mandriva Linux release 2007.1 (Official) for i586
    Got Rute? http://www.anrdoezrs.net/email-25465...sbn=0130333514
    ERA Computers & Consulting - http://www.eracc.com/
    Preloaded PCs - eComStation, Linux, FreeBSD, OpenServer & UnixWare

  7. Re: I want to migrate to Linux

    On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 20:47:19 +0000, pcbldrNinetyEight wrote:

    [snip ... wanting to know about a list of equivalents for Linux or
    running under WINE]

    > FaxTalk Plus 3.0


    I use Hylafax here (http://www.hylafax.org/) and it was/is included in
    many distributions of Linux. Hylafax may be overkill and a brain smasher
    for a newbie to set up though. However, it works great IMO. I see most of
    the other stuff has been covered by other replies.

    Gene (e-mail: gene \a\t eracc \d\o\t com)
    --
    Mandriva Linux release 2007.1 (Official) for i586
    Got Rute? http://www.anrdoezrs.net/email-25465...sbn=0130333514
    ERA Computers & Consulting - http://www.eracc.com/
    Preloaded PCs - eComStation, Linux, FreeBSD, OpenServer & UnixWare

  8. Re: I want to migrate to Linux

    pcbldrNinetyEight wrote:
    > Chris Cox wrote in
    > news:13sc6t5kfbfh7ae@corp.supernews.com:
    >
    >> pcbldrNinetyEight wrote:

    >
    >
    >
    >> At the moment I am NOT optimistic with regards to your migration
    >> to Linux.

    >
    > I am.
    >


    Ok... I guess you didn't need most of those apps after all.
    (which again... is fine... and the better way to approach
    Linux)

  9. Re: I want to migrate to Linux

    pcbldrNinetyEight wrote:
    > Aragorn wrote in
    > news:3Ebxj.225035$901.92433@newsfet12.ams:
    >
    >> pcbldrNinetyEight wrote:
    >>
    >>> I want to migrate from WIN98SE to Linux and am looking for advise.

    >
    > > comment about>
    >
    >>
    >> Most desktop-oriented GNU/Linux distributions are extremely
    >> user friendly these days and allow you to set up the system through a
    >> mouse-driven graphical user interface.>

    > Can the partitioning be accomplished by point and click?


    On most modern systems it can be done or you can get
    a distribution that is only a kernel and a partitioning utility
    with a GUI, GPartEd.
    >
    >> Edubuntu is aimed especially towards children.

    >
    > I'm feeling particularly dim now so this might be for me.
    >
    > Assuming I can come to grips with all of these concepts I can't picture
    > being able to sit in front of a PC and make any practical use of this at
    > the command line given my current lack of experience. I don't want to
    > sound like a broken record but how much of this can I do while still
    > avoiding the command line?


    Get the current Linux+ magazine and use the Mandriva Free 2008
    distro. I did my upgrade from it and while it was slow it failed to
    show a shell prompt until it was finished and I opened a console window.
    It did take a couple of hours.

    >
    > Are there any online step by step walk throughs that would be suitable
    > given what I want to do?
    >
    > Can you recommend any beginner books like "Linux for the totally
    > clueless" ;-) Thank you for your help.


    There is a line of Linux for Dummies books. These can be
    useful for the beginners who are totally unfamiliar with anything
    but MS product. I used to use Amiga OS and learned the shell
    there so I had some experience with lower level stuff as well as
    using several gui/wimp hard disk partioning utilities. Knoppix
    is a distro that has definite advantages for beginners along with
    the book.

    I had no problems except getting my hands on Mandriva 2006
    distribution and since have use Linux on several machines.

    I can do shell stuff but I hate it because I am a rotten
    keyboarder/typist.

    later
    bliss -- C O C O A Powered... (at california dot com)

    --
    bobbie sellers - a retired nurse in San Francisco
    (Back to Angband) Team *AMIGA & SF-LUG*

    Your tag lines (k) were stolen! (more)
    There is a puff of smoke!

  10. Re: I want to migrate to Linux

    pcbldrNinetyEight ha scritto:

    > I wonder if I dare ask this question. I'm already in way over my head.
    > How is networking as in the NICs and TCP/IP configured after Linux is
    > installed but without or before WIN98 is installed? Lets assume I was
    > building a Linux only system.
    >


    Old school linux guys do that in a very quick and straightforward way by
    the command line, e.g:

    ifconfig eth0 192.168.0.5 netmask 255.255.255.0

    that 's all.

    Newcomers use the GUI tools that they easily find in the menus in all
    the distributions. Setting up the network in windows is a pain on the
    neck in comparison with doing the same in linux. At least for me.

    But you can test directly many of your issues simply by trying a Ubuntu
    CD in "live" way, i.e. without installing: just boot from CD and you're
    free to move around in the linux environment. Even in a pc without an
    hard-disk.

    G.

  11. Re: I want to migrate to Linux


    "stragatto" wrote in message
    news:fq5ms5$va2$1@aioe.org...
    > pcbldrNinetyEight ha scritto:
    >
    >> I wonder if I dare ask this question. I'm already in way over my head.
    >> How is networking as in the NICs and TCP/IP configured after Linux is
    >> installed but without or before WIN98 is installed? Lets assume I was
    >> building a Linux only system.

    >
    > Old school linux guys do that in a very quick and straightforward way by
    > the command line, e.g:
    >
    > ifconfig eth0 192.168.0.5 netmask 255.255.255.0
    >
    > that 's all.


    Not to steal this thread, but I'd simply like to know how to delete a
    default route obtained via DHCP at every boot.

    (three NIC's. One static IP and two dynamic IPs. The two dynamics flip flop
    at being the default gateway, causing all sorts of havoc with FTP and SSH)



  12. Re: I want to migrate to Linux

    pcbldrNinetyEight wrote:

    > Aragorn wrote in
    > news:3Ebxj.225035$901.92433@newsfet12.ams:
    >
    >> pcbldrNinetyEight wrote:
    >>
    >>> I want to migrate from WIN98SE to Linux and am looking for advise.

    >
    > > comment about>


    ;-)

    Those things were mainly intended to make you better understand some
    low-level stuff regarding partitioning and UNIX or GNU/Linux interiors. ;-)

    Microsoft considers the x86 platform to still be what it was when it was
    first introduced in the IBM PC in 1982, i.e. a single-user home machine,
    which can of course also be used in offices for regular office work -
    because computers are never used for science, right?

    As such, Microsoft Windows still maintains the old-style drive letters,
    which stem from Digital Research's CP/M operating system, which was later
    "rewritten in a not too legal fashion" by Tim Patterson of Seattle
    Computer. Patterson had called this "rewritten CP/M" QDOS - for "Quick &
    Dirty Operating System"; not to be confused with the Q(uick)-DOS
    filemanager - and had deemed it pretty useless.

    Around that time, IBM had approached Digital Research's Gary Kildall, the
    owner of the company and developer of CP/M, to provide for the operating
    system for the IBM Personal Computer, but a series of no-shows by Kildall
    at agreed meetings and disagreements with Kildall's wife over the licensing
    and IBM's emphasis on a non-disclosure agreements led the Big Blue guys to
    turn to Bill Gates, who hesitated the first time - he said that "Microsoft
    does not produce any operating systems" - but chose to seize the
    opportunity when IBM appealed onto him again after failing to negotiate
    their intended use of CP/M, and subsequently bought Tim Patterson's QDOS
    and rebranded it MS-DOS.

    The successor to MS-DOS was to be OS/2, a joint venture between IBM and
    Microsoft. OS/2 was a single-user multitasking operating system that made
    use of the protected mode on i286 and i386 processors. Its first version
    had a menu-driven user interface based upon the DOS Shell, but subsequent
    1.x versions had a GUI called Presentation Manager, from which the Windows
    3.x user interface was derived. OS/2 also made use of DOS-like commands
    and drive letters.

    Back around 1990, IBM had an agreement running with Microsoft that IBM would
    develop the next generation of OS/2, OS/2 2.x, which was to be a 32-bit
    operating system - OS/2 1.x was still 16-bit - and was to feature an
    entirely new object-oriented graphical user interface, the Workplace Shell.

    (I myself have used OS/2 2.x for 5 years, whereas other people were using
    the combination of MS-DOS/PC-DOS/DR-DOS and Windows 3.x(x) at first and
    Windows 95 later on. My only experience with Windows dates back to the
    first 6 months of owning my first PC - which came with DOS 5.0 and Windows
    3.0 - pending the public release of OS/2 2.0, and about two years of using
    Windows NT 4.0 Workstation - more as a hobby, as I didn't have any internet
    connection and I would often go weeks without even looking at my computer -
    between late 1997 and late 1999.)

    But to continue, the deal between IBM and Microsoft was that Microsoft were
    to concentrate its effort on the 3.x version of OS/2, which was to be
    dubbed OS/2 NT. At that time however, Microsoft took that plan and turned
    it into *Windows* NT instead, with as a result that IBM had to develop the
    3.x generation of OS/2 itself, which they would end up calling OS/2 Warp.

    With all of the above in mind, you can see that Windows in essence still
    traces back to MS-DOS and even Digital Research's CP/M. However, computer
    hardware and computer technology have evolved a great deal over these last
    two decades, and so did the x86 platform. As of the Intel 80386 on, x86
    systems were capable of running UNIX-like operating systems such as GNU -
    be it with the Linux kernel (which was written on an i386!) or with any of
    the other available kernels that work with GNU - or the various BSD's, or
    proprietary UNIX systems like SCO XENIX, Sun Solaris or the at that time
    revolutionary BSD-based NeXtSTeP by Steve Jobs.

    Despite Microsoft's aspirations to get Windows deployed in the business
    market - something they have partially succeeded in - Windows itself is
    still mainly designed as a "home computer operating system", and the server
    version is based upon that paradigm, but with a slightly better usage of
    the capabilities in the NT kernel, which itself was not written by
    Microsoft but by Dave Cutler, who had developed the VMS operating system at
    DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation). Cutler was even caught redhanded
    inserting literal VMS code - property of DEC! - into the NT kernel, and DEC
    wanted to sue Microsoft, but a settlement was reached out of court. Cutler
    was then hired by Microsoft, as they had also hired Tim Patterson from
    Seattle Computer earlier.

    GNU/Linux on the other hand is an operating system consisting of two major
    components, i.e. the Linux kernel and the GNU userspace libraries and
    toolchain. Both projects were and still are developed independently and
    with different intentions.

    GNU was an initiative from Richard Stallman, founder of the Free Software
    Foundation. Their intent was to create a freely licensed UNIX-like system,
    with the emphasis on the political aspect of freedom, and the UNIX
    architecture being chosen because of its portability, scalability,
    flexibility, versatility, security and robustness. Their native kernel
    however still isn't considered stable or mature enough, and this is where
    Linux comes in.

    Linux was developed by IT student Linus Torvalds as he was using Minix -
    i.e. a UNIX-like operating system written for educational purposes by
    Andrew Tanenbaum - but wanted to rewrite some of the Minix code as he was
    unhappy with it, and the Minix license did not allow modification. So he
    decided to write his own kernel from scratch, and as he was a follower of
    Richard Stallman's philosophy - something which has cooled down quite a bit
    over the last decade or so - he and his co-developing friends ported the
    GNU tools and libraries to work with the Linux kernel, which he then also
    released under the GNU General Public License (GPL), the most popular Free
    & Open Source Software license. (Note: Linux is continuing to be released
    under GPLv2, while the FSF prefers the latest version of the GPL, GPLv3).

    UNIX and UNIX-like systems - the name "UNIX" is trademarked and may legally
    only be used by operating systems which are certified by the Open Group for
    compliance with their Single UNIX Specification - originate from the world
    of minicomputers and mainframes - UNIX was developed by Ken Thompson and
    Dennis Ritchie at AT&T Bell Labs in the late 1960s for use on a DEC PDP-7
    and later a PDP-11 minicomputer - and those machines are typically
    multi-user computers. (Note: Despite the Open Group's objections to the
    usage of the trademark UNIX name by non-certified operating systems, Ken
    Thompson has stated that GNU/Linux and cousins are all de facto UNIX
    systems.) Such machines were and are mainly used for very technical stuff
    - rather than the multimedia- and office-minded "personal computers" - and
    thus they have a history of appealing more onto the technical knowledge and
    skill of their users. Still, UNIX is not such a user-unfriendly operating
    system design.

    The entire above history lesson only serves as to show you the different
    vantages behind both Windows and UNIX-like systems like GNU/Linux, FreeBSD
    and the likes. The more technically oriented background of UNIX systems
    makes that UNIX-like systems are in fact much more logical in their design
    and in the way they are used than Windows, which was developed for
    single-user environments and with flat commercialism in mind. Windows
    originally didn't even have networking support.

    The ubiquity of Windows has led the masses to adopt certain Windows-specific
    traits as being proper to a computer as a piece of technology, while those
    things are in fact abberations, e.g. the frequent need for rebooting -
    which is not exactly beneficial to your hardware as a reboot - especially a
    cold boot - represents multiple powerspikes and high CPU loads - or the
    need to regularly defragment the filesystem. Windows also has a lot of
    security holes because of the fact that it was never designed to be
    networked, despite the replacement of MS-DOS by the VMS-based NT kernel.
    The base layout and internal design of Windows is still grafted on those
    narrow single-user principles, nevertheless. And all the Windows-isms like
    rebooting et al are _not_ normal computer behavior. GNU/Linux has a UNIX
    design, and UNIX was (and still is) mainly used on mainframes,
    supercomputers, minicomputers and scientific workstations. Such systems
    require 24/7 uptime and cannot afford to need such idiocies as regular
    reboots, protection against virus/spyware/trojan infections by third-party
    software or frequent filesystem defragmentation.

    GNU/Linux is very different from Windows. As mentioned by another poster,
    KDE has a somewhat Windows-like appearance in its default configuration -
    which is totally changeable, by the way; mine actually looks quite
    different - but what's underneath the hood is quite a different beast.
    Having used Windows for a long time, you will have to unlearn some of the
    habits and Windows behavior expectations, some of which I've been
    attempting to draw your attention onto. ;-)

    That all said, the wonderful graphical user interfaces available for
    GNU/Linux (and other UNIX-like operating systems) and the logic behind the
    UNIX design - which is basically all about logic, not about some big
    corporation making decisions for you - will soon enough win you over. ;-)

    > Can the partioning be accomplished by point and click?


    Absolutely, unless you are using any of the *buntus, Debian or Slackware.
    At least, to my knowledge the installation of Debian or Ubuntu and siblings
    is mainly done via a menudriven interface, but then it still should be
    quite trivial.

    All other desktop-oriented distributions typically use mousedriven
    installation procedures and utilities. Mandriva for instance - and I
    presume that PCLinuxOS uses the same tools - uses its own graphical
    partitioning tool, called /DiskDrake/ - the name dates back to when
    Mandriva was still called MandrakeSoft.

    RedHat, Fedora Core and CentOS make use of the RedHat /anaconda/ set-up
    utility, which also has a graphical partitioning tool built-in - it might
    be /gparted,/ but I'm just guessing as I've never checked.

    Most distributions also come with individual graphical partitioning tools,
    and even among the commandline partitioning tools, there is a particularly
    good one that's typically supplied with every distribution, i.e. /cfdisk./
    It's completely menu/arrow-key-driven.

    >> Edubuntu is aimed especially towards children.

    >
    > I'm feeling particularly dim now so this might be for me.


    Well, I didn't mean to suggest that it's for newbies but that it features a
    lot of educational tools - e.g. pertaining to language, typing, spelling,
    sciences, etc. - and games.

    > Assuming I can come to grips with all of these concepts I can't picture
    > being able to sit in front of a PC and make any practical use of this at
    > the command line given my current lack of experience. I don't want to
    > sound like a broken record but how much of this can I do while still
    > avoiding the command line?


    Most of it, in any recent desktop-oriented distribution. In UNIX systems,
    most tools are in fact commandline utilities, but there are (at least one
    but typically multiple) GUI front-ends to allow you to use those
    commandline back-ends. This design is so as to be able to use those
    utilities regardless of whether you have a GUI running or not, and it makes
    quite a lot of sense as the GUI tools therefore don't need to clog up the
    memory. The distribution's installer will typically preconfigure any GUI
    packages you install to make use of the non-GUI tools you have installed,
    and if one GUI package requires a non-GUI tool that you have not installed,
    it will be installed as a dependency.

    For instance and mentioned by other users as well, let's take a partitioning
    tool. There is /gparted,/ which has a Gnome-like appearance, and there
    is /qtparted,/ which has more of a KDE-like appearance. Both of these make
    use of /parted,/ which is a non-graphical tool. (PARTition EDitor).

    For CD-/DVD-burning, there are several graphical tools available which make
    use of the non-graphical back-ends such as /cdrdao/ and /cdrecord./ I
    strongly recommend KDE's K3B burning tool; it's really userfriendly and
    feature-rich.

    > Are there any online step by step walk throughs that would be suitable
    > given what I want to do?


    Well, just about every commandline utility comes with an on-disk manual -
    note: these are manuals, not prosaic guides or tutorials - but there are
    typically lots of HTML and plain text documentation files in
    */usr/share/doc.* Next to that, you can also find those and lots more at
    the "Linux Documention Project" website, i.e.

    http://www.tldp.org

    I also strongly recommend reading Paul Sheer's RUTE, which is however quite
    lengthy and pretty technical. You can find it here...:

    http://rute.2038bug.com/index.html.gz

    > Can you recommend any beginner books like "Linux for the totally
    > clueless" ;-) Thank you for your help.


    As another poster mentioned, there is a book called "Linux For Dummies", but
    there are also other, more distribution-oriented books. Mandriva for
    instance provides for good documention - available both in a printed
    version or as online reading, albeit that I'm not up to date anymore on
    their user service, so it might be possible that they require you to a paid
    subscription to the Mandriva Club even for the online version - I
    personally feel that Mandriva has been suffering from a severe degree of
    corporatitis for years already, the pinnacle of which was their decision to
    lay off the company's founder Gael Duval, who has in the meantime started a
    userfriendly, newbie-oriented (but still quite beta-level) and
    self-maintaining distribution called Ulteo, based upon the Debian package
    management system.

    http://www.ulteo.com

    Next, you may also want to bookmark...

    http://www.linuxnewbie.org

    .... and...

    http://www.linux.org

    There's probably a whole lot more on the web, and last but not least, Google
    is your friend. ;-) Google archives Usenet via Google Groups, and you may
    often find useful posts there regarding a specific problem you might have
    which have already expired on the newsservers themselves. Google also
    archives the Linux Kernel Mailing List and several other such exchanges of
    information.

    It is often claimed - by Windows-minded people, of course - that GNU/Linux
    is not user-friendly, and that there is a steep learning curve. I will
    fully admit that GNU/Linux and other UNIX-style systems are more technical
    than something like Windows or a MacIntosh, but that's only because they
    are so much more powerful.

    At the same time, for anyone who's never ever sat at a computer in their
    life, even Windows has a fairly steep learning curve, and some of the
    Windows-typical stuff might even seem quite illogical to such people - in
    fact, that would only be righteously so - because the only reason Windows
    *doesn't* seem illogical to Windows users is the fact that they're
    habituated to it. So the alleged "steep learning curve" of GNU/Linux is a
    matter of subjective perception by Windows addicts, not a factual truth.

    In fact, people who are totally new to IT and really want to learn and
    understand computers are far better off and will have less problems using
    and understanding GNU/Linux than if they were to start using Windows, which
    is in my humble opinion an ugly mess and most likely the worst operating
    system design to have ever existed.

    A frequent misconception is then also the typical question as to why Windows
    is so ubiquitous if GNU/Linux is so much better, but this is once again an
    irrational, Windows-indoctrinated question. Windows is ubiquitous *only*
    because of the monopolistic deals Microsoft makes with consumergrade
    computer manufacturers - which has in the meantime also extended from the
    typical personal computer into the realm of PDAs and smartphones - but
    luckily this is beginning to change now that many big names in the computer
    industry have started to back GNU/Linux.

    Companies like IBM, Hewlett-Packard, SGI (formerly Silicon Graphics)and Sun
    Microsystems all have their proprietary UNIX-branded operating systems. IBM
    has AIX, Hewlett-Packard has HP/UX, SGI has IRIX, Sun Microsystems has
    Solaris. Yet these companies all know that GNU/Linux is just as good and
    at the same time a lot more interesting to invest development resources
    into than still trying to innovate through their own expensively licensed
    proprietary operating systems, especially with regard to the widespread and
    versatile x86 architecture. Novell and RedHat are two of the bigger names
    in the GNU/Linux world and are both also delegating developers to working
    on the Linux kernel. Dell is also cooperating on the Linux kernel
    development.

    Processor manufacturers AMD and Intel are also actively cooperating on the
    development of the Linux kernel, albeit that their motives are quite
    different - AMD is typically more FOSS- and standards-minded than Intel,
    which has already shown a lot of monopolistic behavior and the same kind of
    foul play as Microsoft, with whom they are also participate in a common
    endeavor called the Trusted Computing Platform.

    Peripheral hardware vendors such as Adaptec and LSI are also actively
    cooperating on the development of the Linux kernel and are offering
    GPL-licensed drivers to the tree. Many other companies are also offering
    drivers or other software for GNU/Linux - albeit proprietary and
    binary-only - for GNU/Linux, e.g. Brother, nVidia, Adobe, Sun Microsystems,
    VMWare, et al.

    Google's Android operating system for the upcoming Google phone is based
    upon GNU/Linux. Nokia and Motorola both have GNU/Linux-based cellphones in
    their offer. Many routers from Cisco and LinkSys use a GNU/Linux-based
    operating system, as to many set-top boxes and most of the pre-built
    consumergrade NAS solutions.

    It has taken a long time and it's still moving at slow pace, but the IT
    industry is starting to realize that GNU/Linux and FOSS (Free & Open Source
    Software) are valuable, are here to stay and are simply the perfect roadmap
    to the future. ;-)

    Oh, and by the way, Sun Microsystems has just built a brandnew one-off
    supercomputer, capable of 500 Teraflops. It's got 15'744 dualcore AMD
    Opteron processors, and it runs... GNU/Linux... ;-)

    GNU/Linux is not user-unfriendly, but it requires that the user keeps a
    computer-friendly state of mind. ;-)

    Don't fear the penguin...

    --
    Aragorn
    (registered GNU/Linux user #223157)

  13. Re: I want to migrate to Linux

    Chris Cox wrote in
    news:13scgf49aq9fga4@corp.supernews.com:

    > pcbldrNinetyEight wrote:
    >> Chris Cox wrote in
    >> news:13sc6t5kfbfh7ae@corp.supernews.com:
    >>
    >>> pcbldrNinetyEight wrote:

    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>> At the moment I am NOT optimistic with regards to your migration
    >>> to Linux.

    >>
    >> I am.
    >>

    >
    > Ok... I guess you didn't need most of those apps after all.
    > (which again... is fine... and the better way to approach
    > Linux)


    How much I can accomplish with WINE or a VM will be determined by my own
    efforts and not by some naysayer. I will waste no more time on you.

    --
    pcbldrNinetyEight

  14. Re: I want to migrate to Linux

    bobbie sellers wrote in
    news:62mucsF2414sbU1@mid.individual.net:


    > Get the current Linux+ magazine and use the Mandriva Free 2008
    > distro.


    Now that's what I call a damn good idea. I may see Linux on my monitor
    before this day is through.

    > I did my upgrade from it and while it was slow it failed to
    > show a shell prompt until it was finished and I opened a console
    > window. It did take a couple of hours.
    >
    >> Are there any online step by step walk throughs that would be
    >> suitable given what I want to do?
    >>
    >> Can you recommend any beginner books like "Linux for the totally
    >> clueless" ;-) Thank you for your help.

    >
    > There is a line of Linux for Dummies books. These can be
    > useful for the beginners who are totally unfamiliar with anything
    > but MS product. I used to use Amiga OS and learned the shell
    > there so I had some experience with lower level stuff as well as
    > using several gui/wimp hard disk partioning utilities. Knoppix
    > is a distro that has definite advantages for beginners along with
    > the book.
    >
    > I had no problems except getting my hands on Mandriva 2006
    > distribution and since have use Linux on several machines.
    >
    > I can do shell stuff but I hate it because I am a rotten
    > keyboarder/typist.



    Me too. Thanks for the suggestions.

    --
    pcbldrNinetyEight

  15. Re: I want to migrate to Linux

    General Schvantzkopf wrote in
    news:KfSdnWjOJqpXg1vanZ2dnUVZ_qrinZ2d@comcast.com:

    > When you install an OS in VMware it sees virtual devices not the
    > actual devices in the machine. These devices are either so generic
    > that you don't need drivers or they use the drivers that are included
    > in VMware. These drivers are called VMware Tools. After you do the OS
    > install and you have booted into the OS the graphics will be running
    > VGA mode just like they would be if you had installed the OS on real
    > hardware and you hadn't installed the graphics driver. There is a menu
    > item called Install VMware tools, when you select that Windows will
    > think you have mounted a driver disk. You run the installer for VMware
    > Tools and it will install all of the drivers that you need. After
    > you've installed VMware tools and done a reboot you will have full
    > functionality. You will not need any drivers for the real hardware,
    > just for VMware.
    >
    > Networking is configured after you have done the install not before.
    > You follow the same steps you would on real hardware,
    >
    > 1) Install OS
    > 2) Install drivers (i.e. install VMware Tools), reboot
    > 3) Setup networking in Win98. You can use static IPs or you can use
    > DHCP. Linux has a DHCP server included, you don't need a router.
    >
    > SAMBA allows Linux to share folders with Windows. At it simplest it's
    > like turning on sharing in Windows. SAMBA does a lot more than this
    > also, it can do everything that Windows Server can do. However all you
    > need is the base functionality. You would use SAMBA to share Linux
    > directories, you would mount them in Windows in exactly the same
    > manner as if you had shared them from another Win98 machine.
    >
    > The browser interface is for Webmin. Think of it as a super Control
    > Panel where all of the control panels are in a browser window. You
    > don't need to use Webmin, I was just suggesting it because I think
    > it's easier and more powerful than the administration tools that
    > Ubuntu provides. Ubuntu provides a very Windows like control panel. I
    > hate it because it's so much like Windows, but you will probably be
    > comfortable with it.


    I'm ready to buy distros and dive in head first. Thanks for your
    patience and help. Where do I send the check? (just kidding) You really
    do deserve high praise.

    --
    pcbldrNinetyEight

  16. Re: I want to migrate to Linux

    Calab staggered into the Black Sun and said:
    > "stragatto" wrote
    >> pcbldrNinetyEight ha scritto:
    >>> How is networking configured after Linux is installed but without or
    >>> before WIN98 is installed?

    >> ifconfig eth0 192.168.0.5 netmask 255.255.255.0
    >> that's all.


    That's only for static IPs, and is manual. Debian-based distros have
    /etc/network/interfaces , a text file describing how various NICs should
    be set up. Gentoo has /etc/conf.d/net , which is similar.
    Redhat-derived distros have /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg* , one
    file per interface. All of the info is stored in text files, and you
    can easily find where the info is on an unfamiliar distro by doing "grep
    -r eth0 /etc/* " and sorting results by eyeball.

    > I'd simply like to know how to delete a default route obtained via
    > DHCP at every boot. Three NIC's. One static IP and two dynamic IPs.
    > The two dynamics flip flop at being the default gateway, causing all
    > sorts of havoc with FTP and SSH)


    "man dhcpcd", paying particular attention to the -G option. Make sure
    that you do "dhcpcd eth0" and "dhcpcd -G eth1", f'rexample. You'll have
    to edit your config files to make this happen. I can't give you precise
    instructions because you didn't mention which distro you're using.

    --
    The early bird who catches the worm works for someone who comes in
    late and owns the worm farm. --Travis McGee
    =======Hire me! http://crow202.dyndns.org:8080/~mhgraham/resume/
    Matt G|There is no Darkness in Eternity/But only Light too dim for us to see

  17. Re: I want to migrate to Linux

    On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 15:03:47 +0000, pcbldrNinetyEight wrote:

    > General Schvantzkopf wrote in
    > news:KfSdnWjOJqpXg1vanZ2dnUVZ_qrinZ2d@comcast.com:
    >
    >> When you install an OS in VMware it sees virtual devices not the actual
    >> devices in the machine. These devices are either so generic that you
    >> don't need drivers or they use the drivers that are included in VMware.
    >> These drivers are called VMware Tools. After you do the OS install and
    >> you have booted into the OS the graphics will be running VGA mode just
    >> like they would be if you had installed the OS on real hardware and you
    >> hadn't installed the graphics driver. There is a menu item called
    >> Install VMware tools, when you select that Windows will think you have
    >> mounted a driver disk. You run the installer for VMware Tools and it
    >> will install all of the drivers that you need. After you've installed
    >> VMware tools and done a reboot you will have full functionality. You
    >> will not need any drivers for the real hardware, just for VMware.
    >>
    >> Networking is configured after you have done the install not before.
    >> You follow the same steps you would on real hardware,
    >>
    >> 1) Install OS
    >> 2) Install drivers (i.e. install VMware Tools), reboot 3) Setup
    >> networking in Win98. You can use static IPs or you can use DHCP. Linux
    >> has a DHCP server included, you don't need a router.
    >>
    >> SAMBA allows Linux to share folders with Windows. At it simplest it's
    >> like turning on sharing in Windows. SAMBA does a lot more than this
    >> also, it can do everything that Windows Server can do. However all you
    >> need is the base functionality. You would use SAMBA to share Linux
    >> directories, you would mount them in Windows in exactly the same manner
    >> as if you had shared them from another Win98 machine.
    >>
    >> The browser interface is for Webmin. Think of it as a super Control
    >> Panel where all of the control panels are in a browser window. You
    >> don't need to use Webmin, I was just suggesting it because I think it's
    >> easier and more powerful than the administration tools that Ubuntu
    >> provides. Ubuntu provides a very Windows like control panel. I hate it
    >> because it's so much like Windows, but you will probably be comfortable
    >> with it.

    >
    > I'm ready to buy distros and dive in head first. Thanks for your
    > patience and help. Where do I send the check? (just kidding) You really
    > do deserve high praise.


    Make sure that you buy the full install DVDs not just the Live CDs.
    Ubuntu is typically installed from the Live CD and it's possible to do
    that with Fedora 8 also. However those installs are minimal systems and
    they are typically pretty useless until you've downloaded and installed
    the remaining applications that you'll need. For people with broadband
    this is a nice way to do it but you are on dialup so the Live CD approach
    is undoable for you.

    One more thing about VMware, the installer assumes a 2.6.18 kernel which
    is what you will find in CentOS 5.1. For all of the other distros that
    you are looking at you will have to patch the installer. You get the
    patch from,

    http://knihovny.cvut.cz/ftp/pub/vmwa...date115.tar.gz

    With Ubuntu it possible that you will find VMware and VirtualBox (another
    VM that works pretty well) in a repository which would be simpler for you
    than using the VMware installer which must be done from a command line.

  18. Re: I want to migrate to Linux

    General Schvantzkopf wrote in
    news:ZNOdnSL2_exfT1vanZ2dnUVZ_jOdnZ2d@comcast.com:

    > On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 15:03:47 +0000, pcbldrNinetyEight wrote:
    >> I'm ready to buy distros and dive in head first. Thanks for your
    >> patience and help. Where do I send the check? (just kidding) You
    >> really do deserve high praise.

    >
    > Make sure that you buy the full install DVDs not just the Live CDs.


    That's news to me! Please tell me where can I find these "full install
    DVDs" or how can I discern a full install disc from a partial? I surely am
    a babe in the woods concerning Linux.

    > Ubuntu is typically installed from the Live CD and it's possible to do
    > that with Fedora 8 also. However those installs are minimal systems
    > and they are typically pretty useless until you've downloaded and
    > installed the remaining applications that you'll need. For people with
    > broadband this is a nice way to do it but you are on dialup so the
    > Live CD approach is undoable for you.
    >
    > One more thing about VMware, the installer assumes a 2.6.18 kernel
    > which is what you will find in CentOS 5.1. For all of the other
    > distros that you are looking at you will have to patch the installer.
    > You get the patch from,
    >
    > http://knihovny.cvut.cz/ftp/pub/vmwa...date115.tar.gz
    >
    > With Ubuntu it possible that you will find VMware and VirtualBox
    > (another VM that works pretty well) in a repository which would be
    > simpler for you than using the VMware installer which must be done
    > from a command line.


    More valuable info. I appear to need still more hand holding. Thanks.

    --
    pcbldrNinetyEight

  19. Re: I want to migrate to Linux

    On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 16:26:41 +0000, pcbldrNinetyEight wrote:

    > General Schvantzkopf wrote in
    > news:ZNOdnSL2_exfT1vanZ2dnUVZ_jOdnZ2d@comcast.com:
    >
    >> On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 15:03:47 +0000, pcbldrNinetyEight wrote:
    >>> I'm ready to buy distros and dive in head first. Thanks for your
    >>> patience and help. Where do I send the check? (just kidding) You
    >>> really do deserve high praise.

    >>
    >> Make sure that you buy the full install DVDs not just the Live CDs.

    >
    > That's news to me! Please tell me where can I find these "full install
    > DVDs" or how can I discern a full install disc from a partial? I surely
    > am a babe in the woods concerning Linux.


    I've used http://www.linuxcentral.com in the days before I had broadband.
    They have everything at reasonable prices. The 64 bit version of CentOS
    5.1 is $10 as is Ubuntu 7.04.

    Do you have a friend with broadband? The cheapest way to get the DVDs is
    to download the ISOs and burn the DVDs.


  20. Re: I want to migrate to Linux

    pcbldrNinetyEight wrote:
    > Chris Cox wrote in
    > news:13scgf49aq9fga4@corp.supernews.com:
    >
    >> pcbldrNinetyEight wrote:
    >>> Chris Cox wrote in
    >>> news:13sc6t5kfbfh7ae@corp.supernews.com:
    >>>
    >>>> pcbldrNinetyEight wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>> At the moment I am NOT optimistic with regards to your migration
    >>>> to Linux.
    >>> I am.
    >>>

    >> Ok... I guess you didn't need most of those apps after all.
    >> (which again... is fine... and the better way to approach
    >> Linux)

    >
    > How much I can accomplish with WINE or a VM will be determined by my own
    > efforts and not by some naysayer. I will waste no more time on you.
    >


    I'm hardly a "naysayer". You wanted someone with experience
    to help you. Sorry if I offended you somehow. Just wanted
    you to let you know what you could expect. However, I'm happy
    to be proven wrong. If you do end up getting even 50% of your
    list of applications working to the point of your own
    personal satisfaction, that would be VERY interesting
    and it would be helpful if you post the list that work well
    under Linux.