Unbiased comparison of PPC and Palm as an OS? - Handheld

This is a discussion on Unbiased comparison of PPC and Palm as an OS? - Handheld ; Seriously thinking of going PPC because I've just had it with the instability of Palm OS (from 3.5 to 5.2), but seeing as M$ makes it I wonder if I won't be jumping out of the fryingpan into the fire. ...

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Thread: Unbiased comparison of PPC and Palm as an OS?

  1. Unbiased comparison of PPC and Palm as an OS?

    Seriously thinking of going PPC because I've just had it with the
    instability of Palm OS (from 3.5 to 5.2), but seeing as M$ makes it I
    wonder if I won't be jumping out of the fryingpan into the fire.
    What's everybody think?

    I'm also wondering if it won't have way less
    shareware/freeware/everythingware/warez available than Palm OS does -
    sorta like PC vs Mac in that respect.

    Personal exps. very welcome, but I'm thinking somebody here might know of
    a good comparison on a website somewhere (not one of the 8zillion stupid
    web forum hits? - jeez I loath web forums!) but more like a chart or table
    to really visualize, concise, unbiased.
    Anyone know of one?
    --
    __________________________________________________ ___
    For email response, or CC, please mailto:see.my.sig.4.addr(at)bigfoot.com.
    Yeah, it's really a real address

  2. Re: Unbiased comparison of PPC and Palm as an OS?

    Me too was thinking to switch.
    If you want some Pros:
    VGA-screen now. More computing power. Better integration in the desktop environment(given you are
    using Windows). More versatility. Palm is very much concentrating on basic productivity. PPC has
    more vendors and a more widespread field in which you can use it.
    Software side is nearly as much as Palm. But it tends to have more shareware than freeware.



  3. Re: Unbiased comparison of PPC and Palm as an OS?

    In article ,
    see.my.sig.4.addr@nowhere.com.invalid wrote:
    > Seriously thinking of going PPC because I've just had it with the
    > instability of Palm OS (from 3.5 to 5.2), but seeing as M$ makes it I
    > wonder if I won't be jumping out of the fryingpan into the fire.
    > What's everybody think?


    I haven't had that much trouble with Palm instability - Palm IIIe,
    IIIxe, Handera 330, and Visor Prism at various times (3.0-4.1).
    Depends partly on the software you put on it. I've only been forced
    to hard reset about three times in three years, and I keep backups
    so that's not a huge deal. I have seen a lot of complaints about
    PPC stability, and from what I hear ActiveSync is just not as
    reliable as Palm's Hotsync. I only got to play with a PPC for a
    short time, though, so I can't really comment on that.

    I don't think either are "better" per se, but they focus on different
    things. PalmOS isn't multitasking, which limits what it can do without
    very clever programming, but the UI is very well optimized for a small
    screen. WinCE can multitask, which is nice, but the UI is often
    inherited from a desktop and doesn't necessarily work well for a
    smaller screen. (Note that even a VGA-resolution screen doesn't totally
    solve this... the pixels get *really really small* when the screen is
    that dense.)

    A modern Palm is a scaled-up organizer. A PPC is sort of a scaled-down
    laptop. I'd suggest seeing if you could borrow a PPC for a while and
    see if it does what *you* want and/or need...

    --
    Sincerely,

    Ray Ingles (313) 227-2317

    The above opinions are probably not those of Compuware Corp.
    Yet.

  4. Re: Unbiased comparison of PPC and Palm as an OS?

    On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 09:59:11 -0800, see.my.sig.4.addr wrote:

    > Seriously thinking of going PPC because I've just had it with the
    > instability of Palm OS (from 3.5 to 5.2), but seeing as M$ makes it I
    > wonder if I won't be jumping out of the fryingpan into the fire.
    > What's everybody think?
    >
    > I'm also wondering if it won't have way less
    > shareware/freeware/everythingware/warez available than Palm OS does -
    > sorta like PC vs Mac in that respect.
    >
    > Personal exps. very welcome, but I'm thinking somebody here might know of
    > a good comparison on a website somewhere (not one of the 8zillion stupid
    > web forum hits? - jeez I loath web forums!) but more like a chart or table
    > to really visualize, concise, unbiased.
    > Anyone know of one?


    Well I've never been a Palm user(My pocket computer is more a toy than a
    tool) partly due to lack of cheap wireless support(although Best Buy drops
    open-box units real cheap, I'm told) and partly because the kind of
    features I aim for are expensive on Palm devices(this isn't an issue
    anymore, but my requirements haven't changed)
    Activesync, as someone else alluded to, is worthless crap. Beaten only by
    Casio's proprietary sync because it was confusing to navigate.
    My Casio BE-300 went through both before its screen got smashed. Near the
    end I was mainly transferring with CF

    Linux(Sharp) is harder to deal with sync-wise(Sharp uses MS Activesync,
    the third-party ROMs use QtDesktop which is awkward at best) but it allows
    a level of remote control beyond anything I've seen(remote shell, ftp, etc
    as needed) and there is better sync software to be gotten than MSAS or QT.

  5. Re: Unbiased comparison of PPC and Palm as an OS?

    Oh, if you're preferring to play games you should go with Windwos Mobile. The games are far more
    attracting than Palm. Palm only offers the Zodiac which is great but has only a limited series of
    games.



  6. Re: Unbiased comparison of PPC and Palm as an OS?

    Ray Ingles napsal(a):

    > I haven't had that much trouble with Palm instability - Palm IIIe,
    > IIIxe, Handera 330, and Visor Prism at various times (3.0-4.1).
    > Depends partly on the software you put on it. I've only been forced
    > to hard reset about three times in three years, and I keep backups
    > so that's not a huge deal.


    Obviously you have absolutely none experience with OS5.

    > I have seen a lot of complaints about
    > PPC stability, and from what I hear ActiveSync is just not as


    How long ago? I had had an iPAQ H3130 in 2000, and it crashed nowhere
    near as often as my new T3 does regularly. I had to softreset about once
    a week, but I do have to stab the T3 in the back about 6 times a DAY!
    The only apps I use and have installed are CardBackup+CardExport2,
    AdobeReader (but no docs currently), the latest version of AvantGo,
    Docs2Go 6.761, MobiPocket 4.8, PasswordsPlus, Plucker, Metro (public
    transportation router), SmartMaps, Route (Europe road map with router),
    Yanoff, ICQ, PiLoc and a driver for UniversalWirelessKeyboard. The
    strangest is that it crashes almost exclusively with the FACTORY
    applications, namely the SMS.

    > reliable as Palm's Hotsync. I only got to play with a PPC for a
    > short time, though, so I can't really comment on that.
    >
    > I don't think either are "better" per se, but they focus on different
    > things. PalmOS isn't multitasking, which limits what it can do without
    > very clever programming, but the UI is very well optimized for a small
    > screen. WinCE can multitask, which is nice, but the UI is often
    > inherited from a desktop and doesn't necessarily work well for a
    > smaller screen. (Note that even a VGA-resolution screen doesn't totally
    > solve this... the pixels get *really really small* when the screen is
    > that dense.)


    Don't mix CE and PocketPC. They're completely different systems with
    different GUI for a different target and with different architecture and
    functionality.
    CE is for devices like thin-client desktop terminals, handhelds with
    large screen and a keyboard, and for embedded devices like onboard
    computers for cars.
    PPC is for PDA's and its GUI is optimized for small screen and the use
    of stylus.
    Saying that WinCE isn't an OS suitable for PDA's is like saying that a
    pickup truck is a poor choice for cart racing.

    > A modern Palm is a scaled-up organizer. A PPC is sort of a scaled-down
    > laptop. I'd suggest seeing if you could borrow a PPC for a while and
    > see if it does what *you* want and/or need...


    You're obviously forgetting what are today's PDA's used for. When you
    market a PDA and say it's capable of replacing ones notebook computer
    (which is exactly what PalmOne states on the T3 and T5 flyers), you'll
    very quickly come to a conclusion that a beefed-up organizer doesn't
    stand up to the task.

    Mark
    --
    The last easy day was yesterday.

  7. Re: Unbiased comparison of PPC and Palm as an OS?

    In article , Marek Staněk wrote:
    > Ray Ingles napsal(a):
    >
    >> I haven't had that much trouble with Palm instability - Palm IIIe,
    >> IIIxe, Handera 330, and Visor Prism at various times (3.0-4.1).

    >
    > Obviously you have absolutely none experience with OS5.


    Uh, yeah. That *is* what I said, after all. :->

    >> I have seen a lot of complaints about
    >> PPC stability, and from what I hear ActiveSync is just not as

    >
    > How long ago?


    My last Handera 330 was stolen in December. I spent some time looking
    at various options (including PPC) and decided for my needs another
    H330 was best. While I was Googling I saw multiple reports. Also, at
    work a year back Microsoft gave a lot of developers where I work PPC
    units for free (PPC 2002). Some of the developers I talked to had real
    problems with ActiveSync, some none.

    > I had to softreset about once a week, but I do have to stab the T3
    > in the back about 6 times a DAY!


    Huh. I've had a lot of resets in the last few days, but only because
    I've been developing and testing a system hack. Gotta expect some
    problems there. :->

    > ...and a driver for UniversalWirelessKeyboard.


    Check for updated drivers there. A bit of Googling turned up problems
    with the T3 and that item.

    > Don't mix CE and PocketPC. They're completely different systems with
    > different GUI for a different target and with different architecture and
    > functionality.


    I was speaking of the kernel. The guts of PocketPC is Windows CE, an
    entirely different codebase from the NT/200x/XP family. Yes, the PPC
    has different UI libraries, but when speaking about multitasking the
    OS kernel is relevant.

    > Saying that WinCE isn't an OS suitable for PDA's is like saying that a
    > pickup truck is a poor choice for cart racing.


    I *didn't* say that. I said that the GUI is "often inherited from a
    desktop." Word and Outlook, for example, were designed with bigger
    screens in mind, and had to be shoehorned into a smaller space for
    their Pocket equivalents.

    > You're obviously forgetting what are today's PDA's used for. When you
    > market a PDA and say it's capable of replacing ones notebook computer
    > (which is exactly what PalmOne states on the T3 and T5 flyers), you'll
    > very quickly come to a conclusion that a beefed-up organizer doesn't
    > stand up to the task.


    I'm not in marketing. My Handera 330 meets all my needs better than
    more recent devices. (One biggie... battery life is orders of magnitude
    greater.) It almost certainly wouldn't meet *your* needs. I told the OP
    to find what would meet *his* needs, that's all. What it says on the
    marketing flyer isn't relevant to that.

    --
    Sincerely,

    Ray Ingles (313) 227-2317

    "When C++ is your hammer, everything looks like a thumb."
    - Anonymous

  8. Re: Unbiased comparison of PPC and Palm as an OS?


    "Marek Staněk" wrote in message
    news:cvl015$4v3$1@ns.felk.cvut.cz...
    > Ray Ingles napsal(a):
    >

    SNIP

    >
    > How long ago? I had had an iPAQ H3130 in 2000, and it crashed nowhere near
    > as often as my new T3 does regularly. I had to softreset about once a
    > week, but I do have to stab the T3 in the back about 6 times a DAY! The
    > only apps I use and have installed are CardBackup+CardExport2, AdobeReader
    > (but no docs currently), the latest version of AvantGo, Docs2Go 6.761,
    > MobiPocket 4.8, PasswordsPlus, Plucker, Metro (public transportation
    > router), SmartMaps, Route (Europe road map with router), Yanoff, ICQ,
    > PiLoc and a driver for UniversalWirelessKeyboard. The strangest is that it
    > crashes almost exclusively with the FACTORY applications, namely the SMS.
    >

    SNIP

    I think you're experiences with Palm are the exception not the rule. I have
    had a T3 for about 17 months now. I do occasionally have to hit the reset
    button due to program failures but nowhere near 6 times a day, not even 6
    times a month! Hotsynch has worked flawlessly from day 1. I don't use all
    the applications you use so you might consider removing applications one at
    a time to see if perhaps you have a bad one. The apps I use besides the
    built-in ones are Palm Reader, D2G, Street Atlas Handheld 2005, Versamail
    (w/Bluetooth phone), BTtoggle, and a couple of games. It's usually the games
    that crash the Palm more than anything and in one case I know that it's poor
    programming by the game developer.

    Palm is not perfect, that's for sure, but I would not call it unstable
    either.

    To the Original Poster,

    If gaming is a priority for you I would consider the Zodiac, a Palm based
    unit. This unit has better controls for gaming, dual SD slots, bluetooth,
    graphics acceleration and it runs all the Palm applications like Calendar,
    Contacts etc...

    Cheers
    TC



  9. Re: Unbiased comparison of PPC and Palm as an OS?

    Tony Clark napsal(a):

    > I think you're experiences with Palm are the exception not the rule. I have
    > had a T3 for about 17 months now. I do occasionally have to hit the reset
    > button due to program failures but nowhere near 6 times a day, not even 6
    > times a month! Hotsynch has worked flawlessly from day 1. I don't use all
    > the applications you use so you might consider removing applications one at
    > a time to see if perhaps you have a bad one. The apps I use besides the


    I have this scheduled for the second week of March. Just too much work
    right now. But even finding the faulty app won't help me much, as I use
    all of them often and I'd have to find a replacement.

    > built-in ones are Palm Reader, D2G, Street Atlas Handheld 2005, Versamail
    > (w/Bluetooth phone), BTtoggle, and a couple of games. It's usually the games
    > that crash the Palm more than anything and in one case I know that it's poor
    > programming by the game developer.


    Interestingly, none of the games I have installed is causing that :-)
    They event weren't on the device until last Thursday. If it's
    app-related, it's some of the apps, and AFAIK none of them is native to
    OS5; they're all OS4.x. I'm afraid that's the root cause and even
    thinking of having to find replacements makes me feel sick.

    Mark
    --
    The last easy day was yesterday.

  10. Re: Unbiased comparison of PPC and Palm as an OS?

    Ray Ingles napsal(a):

    >>...and a driver for UniversalWirelessKeyboard.

    > Check for updated drivers there. A bit of Googling turned up problems
    > with the T3 and that item.


    Just FYI, I'm the one who posted a working solution for T3 to the
    PalmOne support forum :-)

    > I *didn't* say that. I said that the GUI is "often inherited from a
    > desktop." Word and Outlook, for example, were designed with bigger
    > screens in mind, and had to be shoehorned into a smaller space for
    > their Pocket equivalents.


    Fortunately I personally don't mind having only the skelet of the
    document available in the PDA. Some of the functions of for example
    Docs2Go (like the ability to sync a document that's been updated both on
    a desktop AND the PDA) aren't important to me. But I really miss a
    working system level national support in the PalmOS.

    >>You're obviously forgetting what are today's PDA's used for. When you
    >>market a PDA and say it's capable of replacing ones notebook computer
    >>(which is exactly what PalmOne states on the T3 and T5 flyers), you'll
    >>very quickly come to a conclusion that a beefed-up organizer doesn't
    >>stand up to the task.

    > I'm not in marketing. My Handera 330 meets all my needs better than
    > more recent devices. (One biggie... battery life is orders of magnitude


    Guess you "like" the marketing departments as much as I do :-)

    > greater.) It almost certainly wouldn't meet *your* needs. I told the OP


    About a year ago it would have, and with some limitations it still might
    now. But I'd have a big problem getting used to a slower device :-( If
    only the T3 wasn't that much buggy :-(

    Mark
    --
    The last easy day was yesterday.

  11. Re: Unbiased comparison of PPC and Palm as an OS?


    "Marek Staněk" wrote in message
    news:cvt19q$1cpm$3@ns.felk.cvut.cz...
    SNIP

    > Interestingly, none of the games I have installed is causing that :-) They
    > event weren't on the device until last Thursday. If it's app-related, it's
    > some of the apps, and AFAIK none of them is native to OS5; they're all
    > OS4.x. I'm afraid that's the root cause and even thinking of having to
    > find replacements makes me feel sick.
    >

    The game that I have the issue with is Legacy, a first person RPG style
    game. The main issue is if the T3 is not fully extended when you start up
    the game the bottom half of the screen stays dark and you cannot get to the
    menu selections to abort the game. Once you have the T3 open it seems to
    play just fine, it's just that I always seem to start the game from the
    closed position causing me to have to reboot the T3 to recover.

    TC



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