PDA for busy tech consultant - Handheld

This is a discussion on PDA for busy tech consultant - Handheld ; By default, voice memos are time/date stamped. You have the option to edit the titles to be more (or less) meaningfull if you wish later. (You can manually initiate a recording by bringing up the voice notes app and clicking ...

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Thread: PDA for busy tech consultant

  1. Re: PDA for busy tech consultant

    By default, voice memos are time/date stamped. You have the option to edit
    the titles to be more (or less) meaningfull if you wish later. (You can
    manually initiate a recording by bringing up the voice notes app and
    clicking record, but it's oh so much easier to just press and hold the
    record button, wait for the beep, talk, and release the button. All done!

    As for capacity, I've never run into a problem. I regularly transcribe
    voice memos to another permanent form or delete them once done. A quick
    peek shows about 72K consumed by about 17 seconds of recording currently on
    my T3. Nice feature, you can set an alarm associated with a voice note. You
    have the option to automatically record to a storage card if present, vastly
    increasing the amount you can carry.

    Oh, no, it doesn't do voice recognition, but I've never been in a situation
    where I really wanted that anyway. It's really handy to be able to just
    push a button and record while I'm walking from place to place or in the
    car.

    kenw@kmsi.net wrote:
    > Somebody mentioned voice recording -- on the Palm T3, I believe. I've
    > toyed with that concept for a while.
    >
    > Something that time stamped every recording, where I could note
    > arrival times, blow-by-blow notes, summaries, to-do list additions,
    > etc., might really work well. I really want to record _more_ than I
    > do now, and I'm afraid the overhead of manual note-taking on a PDA
    > would make me record _less_. And, clearly, getting out a keyboard
    > isn't going to work for recording one-liners while walking around.
    >
    > How well does Palm voice note recording work? Does it time stamp?
    > How much capacity does it have? Is it just push-and-talk, or does
    > each note require manual setup?
    >
    > I presume it doesn't do actual voice recognition... so I could
    > probably get someone else to do manual transcription. Kinda the way
    > I see doctors doing. Hmmm...
    >
    > /kenw
    >
    > Ken Wallewein
    > K&M Systems Integration
    > Phone (403)274-7848
    > Fax (403)275-4535
    > kenw@kmsi.net
    > www.kmsi.net




  2. Re: PDA for busy tech consultant

    RE/
    >I do a lot of documenting all-day meetings and multi-day workshops. I find
    >handwriting the quickest and don't like having a laptop in front of me all
    >day. I'm thinking of doing what you mentioned, i.e. using a T3 (in
    >landscape) and a keyboard to save some time on transcription. I'm stuck on
    >the fence because not every note makes it to the meeting record, so in
    >effect I end up typing more rather than less and if the battery only lasts
    >half a day what am I going to do, plug it in - pain in the butt.
    >Am I missing something here?


    I've dabbled in using a keyboard and/or PDA in meetings and gotten negative
    results:

    1) Tapping on a keyboard is disruptive to other people

    2) Me focusing on a laptop or PDA takes too much of my attention/presence away
    from the meeting.

    3) Some people in some meetings get downright indignant - but don't tell you
    about it until later.

    4) I can scribble and draw diagrams much faster than I can type or graffitti.

    5) Retention increases by some very large percentage when one reviews material
    within a certain number of hours of first acquiring it. Believing that, I look
    at the opportunity to key my notes into some sort of document as having a net
    benefit because I retain the material better and have the chance to reflect on
    it/reorganize it.

    Bottom line, I'm a scribbler in meetings...

    --
    PeteCresswell

  3. Re: PDA for busy tech consultant

    "Waduino" wrote in
    news:Ujl1c.6316$jw2.374287@news20.bellglobal.com:

    > I do a lot of documenting all-day meetings and multi-day workshops. I
    > find handwriting the quickest and don't like having a laptop in front
    > of me all day. I'm thinking of doing what you mentioned, i.e. using a
    > T3 (in landscape) and a keyboard to save some time on transcription.
    > I'm stuck on the fence because not every note makes it to the meeting
    > record, so in effect I end up typing more rather than less and if the
    > battery only lasts half a day what am I going to do, plug it in - pain
    > in the butt. Am I missing something here?


    Well, that's why I like a wireless keyboard. It doesn't use any power from
    the Palm, and with the new driver the Palm doesn't keep looking for IR all
    day. In my meetings, which lasted generally from 8 to 5, with a half-hour
    or so lunch break, my battery on my Zire 71 was down to ~75% at the end of
    the day. One long day it went just below 70%. It takes less than 1/2
    hour to recharge, and I usually keep it plugged in all night. The keyboard
    batteries last almost forever - I'm still on the original set that came
    with the keyboard. They seem to last about as long as the batteries in a
    universal remote, months at least. If you're paranoid, keep a couple of
    extra AAA batteries on hand.

    Paper and ink still work, but getting the notes from them into electronic
    form can be a lot of work.

    --
    Regards,

    Stan


  4. Re: PDA for busy tech consultant

    On 04 Mar 2004 01:46:03 GMT, Stan Gosnell said...

    > Well, that's why I like a wireless keyboard. It doesn't use any power from
    > the Palm, and with the new driver the Palm doesn't keep looking for IR all
    > day.
    >


    The IR receiver of the Palm uses about 5mA when idle and almost twice
    that when receiving data, so you are using more power than the UC
    keyboard which uses the same amount of power as the touch screen.

    --
    Just trying to help. Jim Anderson
    ( 8(|) To e-mail me, just pull 'my_finger'

  5. Re: PDA for busy tech consultant

    In article <9b5540tg25k1o2lppcgs2g80e43vnpie9i@4ax.com>,
    kenw@kmsi.net writes:
    > I need speed and convenience more than complete
    >Windows integration.


    You really sound like somebody who really need a psion-like device. A
    clamshell device, ready to operate as soon as you open it, with a
    *CONFORTABLE* integrated keyboard (that you can type on while walking,
    etc) is definitely what you want.

    Psion machines (5mx) seems quite adapted to your use (especially with
    their great, flexible "data" app), but you may be better off with more
    modern machines (with a better color screen, wifi...), depending on your
    taste. But psions never crash, have an autonomy of 3-4 weeks, and well
    designed apps.

    You definitely want something with an *INTEGRATED* keyboard, as software
    for these machines is less toy-like, and offer keyboard shortcuts,
    something which is really missing on pen-only (or thumbboard) machine.

    I know the psions, but I feel you could be happy with the Windows CE
    clamshells (HP jordanas?), Symbian clamshells (nokia communicator), maybe
    the sony UX50 (but the keyboards seemed not good enough), the sharp 760
    beign probably the best choice:
    http://www.dynamism.com/zaurus/

    Real subnotebooks with windows may not be the best choice (too big, not
    ready to use quickly enough). except maybe:
    http://www.dynamism.com/u101/main.shtml
    http://www.cnet.com/4520-7912_1-5116369-1.html
    http://www.transmetazone.com/article...?articleID=857

    --
    Colas Nahaboo, ILOG R&D Sophia Antipolis, http://colas.nahaboo.net

  6. Re: PDA for busy tech consultant

    >I know the psions, but I feel you could be happy with the Windows CE
    clamshells (HP jordanas?), Symbian clamshells (nokia communicator), maybe
    >the sony UX50 (but the keyboards seemed not good enough),



    Allow me to come to the defense of Clie keyboards. I have a TG50, which
    has a built in thumbboard. Once you get used to it, which doesn't take
    long, it is quite fast. Easily fast enough to take notes on during a
    meeting or conference.

  7. Re: PDA for busy tech consultant

    In article , kenw@kmsi.net
    wrote:

    > Someone I know has a Palm Tungsten with a thumb-keyboard, and he has macros
    > for filling in client info. Looks okay. Somebody else has a Pocket PC and
    > raves about how well it reads handwriting -- my printing will be a
    > challenge for it. And maybe I should be looking at one of those Tablets.


    I really suggest you not decide based solely on trying to avoid learning
    Grafitti. It takes no more than an hour and a half to do, and it is
    actually a very fast input method -- especially with TealScript.

  8. Re: PDA for busy tech consultant

    Steven Fisher wrote:

    >I really suggest you not decide based solely on trying to avoid learning
    >Grafitti. It takes no more than an hour and a half to do, and it is
    >actually a very fast input method -- especially with TealScript.


    You know, it's funny. Some people claim handwriting on a PDA is fast,
    others say not. Some people claim thumboards are fast, other say not. I
    don't see how either of them can be nearly as quick as handwritten notes on
    paper.

    But I think I'm going to have to find out. The overhead of paper is that
    it is static and unsearchable. And bloody hard to revise and update, or
    link to other functions like billing. It's beginng to look to me like I'm
    going to need to invest in a high-end Palm and some good software to be
    named later, and learn to use it.

    Do they still make Psions? Are they really all that different?

    /kenw
    Ken Wallewein
    K&M Systems Integration
    Phone (403)274-7848
    Fax (403)275-4535
    kenw@kmsi.net
    www.kmsi.net

  9. Re: PDA for busy tech consultant

    I'm sorry--but I just got to throw in my two cents on this.

    I just love this argument--it's a no-brainer if you ask me.
    Seriously...does anyone think you can beat the speed of an ergonomic typing
    position and keyboard with Graffiti or a thumb keyboard? However, I do
    think short-hand notes--using the Notepad--is a quick method to enter data
    to transcribe later--it matches the speed of hand writing. The truth about
    text-input into a Palm OS device...it is unlikely any of us could use
    Graffiti or a thumb-keyboard to enter text as fast as a keyboard.

    However, there are a couple accessories out there that could capture input
    pretty quickly, such as the C-Pen 800, the new SD barcode scanner, etc.

    Respectfully,

    Todd

    wrote in message
    news:jgvf40tka41bripkaa02ofdtohcfmf4v09@4ax.com...
    Steven Fisher wrote:

    >I really suggest you not decide based solely on trying to avoid learning
    >Grafitti. It takes no more than an hour and a half to do, and it is
    >actually a very fast input method -- especially with TealScript.


    You know, it's funny. Some people claim handwriting on a PDA is fast,
    others say not. Some people claim thumboards are fast, other say not. I
    don't see how either of them can be nearly as quick as handwritten notes on
    paper.

    But I think I'm going to have to find out. The overhead of paper is that
    it is static and unsearchable. And bloody hard to revise and update, or
    link to other functions like billing. It's beginng to look to me like I'm
    going to need to invest in a high-end Palm and some good software to be
    named later, and learn to use it.

    Do they still make Psions? Are they really all that different?

    /kenw
    Ken Wallewein
    K&M Systems Integration
    Phone (403)274-7848
    Fax (403)275-4535
    kenw@kmsi.net
    www.kmsi.net



  10. Re: PDA for busy tech consultant


    "Todd Shillam" wrote in message
    news:VtOdnTXUF44fntXdRVn-gw@comcast.com...
    > I'm sorry--but I just got to throw in my two cents on this.
    >
    > I just love this argument--it's a no-brainer if you ask me.
    > Seriously...does anyone think you can beat the speed of an ergonomic

    typing
    > position and keyboard with Graffiti or a thumb keyboard? However, I do
    > think short-hand notes--using the Notepad--is a quick method to enter data
    > to transcribe later--it matches the speed of hand writing. The truth

    about
    > text-input into a Palm OS device...it is unlikely any of us could use
    > Graffiti or a thumb-keyboard to enter text as fast as a keyboard.
    >
    > However, there are a couple accessories out there that could capture input
    > pretty quickly, such as the C-Pen 800, the new SD barcode scanner, etc.
    >
    > Respectfully,
    >
    > Todd
    >

    SNIP

    This is a very subjective topic and one in which personal skills and
    preferences comes into play. I guess we'll have to have a contest one day
    and see who can enter the most text in the shortest time span using
    keyboard, thumboard, or grafitti. I never learned to "touch type" though 20
    years of huntin and peckin on a keyboard has made me pretty quick. I have
    the disadvantage of an injured pinkie finger on my left hand so I am not
    sure I would be a good choice for speed typing on a keyboard.

    On the other hand my hand writing is not what you would call pretty. I guess
    that's from a school system that taught me to write right handed even though
    I am naturally a left hander. So what do I do? Well, if I am in need of
    taking large amounts of notes, I usually do that with pen and paper. I have
    learned to capture the key points which I later transcribe onto the computer
    and add anything else of value that I can remember. My memory skills are
    pretty decent and the written notes serve to reinforce my recollections of
    the meetings. I usually follow up with my customers via email where I
    summarize the key points of the meeting and clarify anything that I am
    uncertain about.

    I haven't used the voice memo function of my T3 but that may serve as
    another way to capture thoughts and information that I need to retain for
    later. I also like the Tablet PC concept but I'd like to see it in something
    more of a 6x9 package and much thinner than the current models. By the way,
    of all the thumboards/mini keyboards I have seen and used I think the Sony
    UX-50 has the best one. Big round keys for my fat fingers. LOL

    Bottom line is if there is information that I absolutely need to capture and
    the device I am using is not particularly fast at capturing that information
    I ask the person I am getting it from to be patient so I can accurately get
    the information into the device. I guess I've never been in a situation
    where the customer said "I am going to say this fast and I am only going to
    say this once..."

    Cheers
    TC



  11. Re: PDA for busy tech consultant

    In article ,
    "Tony Clark" wrote:

    > This is a very subjective topic and one in which personal skills and
    > preferences comes into play. I guess we'll have to have a contest one day
    > and see who can enter the most text in the shortest time span using
    > keyboard, thumboard, or grafitti. I never learned to "touch type" though 20
    > years of huntin and peckin on a keyboard has made me pretty quick. I have
    > the disadvantage of an injured pinkie finger on my left hand so I am not
    > sure I would be a good choice for speed typing on a keyboard.


    I don't think you'd get anyone to argue that a true keyboard is not
    faster than a thumboard or Grafitti. But a PDA where you need to lug a
    full keyboard around with you everywhere you go. I've got my laptop for
    large amounts of text entry, and I like it just fine.

  12. Re: PDA for busy tech consultant

    In article , kenw@kmsi.net
    wrote:

    > You know, it's funny. Some people claim handwriting on a PDA is fast,
    > others say not. Some people claim thumboards are fast, other say not. I
    > don't see how either of them can be nearly as quick as handwritten notes on
    > paper.


    Handwriting on a PDA is slightly slower. Grafitti (i.e. Grafitti 1 or
    TealScript, but not Grafitti 2) seems faster than handwriting to me,
    since there are fewer (and shorter) strokes per letter, and no need to
    move my hand along the paper. The only slow down occurs when I need to
    look up some obscure punctuation mark...

    I have terrible printing and handwriting, just terrible. Awesomely bad,
    one might say. I was bad enough that they tried to teach me loop free in
    elementary instead of cursive, for instance, but I still couldn't do it
    very well. But Grafitti is even simpler than loop free.

  13. Re: PDA for busy tech consultant

    In article ,
    kenw@kmsi.net writes:
    >You know, it's funny. Some people claim handwriting on a PDA is fast,
    >others say not. Some people claim thumboards are fast, other say not. I
    >don't see how either of them can be nearly as quick as handwritten notes on
    >paper.


    I would try to avoid opinions of people who never tried to type with a
    psion keyboard: these keyboards are really impressive, I can really type
    much faster with them than I can handwrite. Moreover, with devices with
    an integrated keyboard, text apps can support lots of keyboard shortcuts
    which are invaluable to get any decent typing speed (control-1 to get a
    "header 1"...)

    In meetings, I use my psion most of the time to get notes, even if I also
    have my laptop:
    * I can whip up my psion any time to correct / update notes later,
    even at the restaurant or standing in a queue.
    * with its not legible screen, neighbors do not see what you type,
    *very* useful when writing "now this bozo again has it totally
    false" :-)
    * the psion is very small, so people are not as aware that you are
    taking notes than with a full notebook (which may be noisy)
    * 20 hours of autonomy... say no more.

    Now that I have bought a P900 "smartphone", I use my psion as an...
    external keyboard (waiting for the bluetooth keyboards to be available).
    Just take the notes on the psion and beam them to the p900 afterwards.
    It was just a temporary hack in my mind, but I wonder now: you do not
    have to take out both the p900 and the keyboard, worry about
    connectivity... it is actually quite an interesting setup. The psion is
    more cumbersome than a "think outside" keyboard, but not so much.

    > Do they still make Psions?


    No, you have to buy them second hand.

    > Are they really all that different?


    oh, yes!

    PS: Now, you may not *need* the typing speed of the psion, especially if
    you do not sit in a conference typing 8 hours in a row :-) So thumboards
    solutions may very well be good enough for many (most) people.

    --
    Colas Nahaboo, ILOG R&D Sophia Antipolis, http://colas.nahaboo.net

  14. Re: PDA for busy tech consultant

    >Allow me to come to the defense of Clie keyboards. I have a TG50, which
    >has a built in thumbboard. Once you get used to it, which doesn't take
    >long, it is quite fast. Easily fast enough to take notes on during a
    >meeting or conference.


    Ive been following this thread with interets...as Im wanting a PDA as
    well

    Im convinced that I only want a unit with a keyboard. Pen input is
    nice as well.... but I just "think" Id really like that thumb keyboard
    as well.

  15. Re: PDA for busy tech consultant


    "Steven Fisher" wrote in message
    news:sdfisher-175D49.00365805032004@news.vf.shawcable.net...
    > In article ,
    > "Tony Clark" wrote:
    >
    > > This is a very subjective topic and one in which personal skills and
    > > preferences comes into play. I guess we'll have to have a contest one

    day
    > > and see who can enter the most text in the shortest time span using
    > > keyboard, thumboard, or grafitti. I never learned to "touch type" though

    20
    > > years of huntin and peckin on a keyboard has made me pretty quick. I

    have
    > > the disadvantage of an injured pinkie finger on my left hand so I am not
    > > sure I would be a good choice for speed typing on a keyboard.

    >
    > I don't think you'd get anyone to argue that a true keyboard is not
    > faster than a thumboard or Grafitti. But a PDA where you need to lug a
    > full keyboard around with you everywhere you go. I've got my laptop for
    > large amounts of text entry, and I like it just fine.


    You've never seen me type...LOL. That was the point to my previous
    ramblings. For some people one style of input may be faster than another,
    but it depends on the person. As a general statement, however, I do agree
    that a good typist will outperform a thumboard or Grafitti.

    TC



  16. Re: PDA for busy tech consultant

    >> Do they still make Psions?
    >
    >No, you have to buy them second hand.


    Which model do your recommend?

    And where to buy them second hand?

  17. Re: PDA for busy tech consultant

    In article ,
    me6@privacy.net wrote:

    > Im convinced that I only want a unit with a keyboard. Pen input is
    > nice as well.... but I just "think" Id really like that thumb keyboard
    > as well.


    Having worked with both, my honest opinion is that the thumboard is next
    to useless. It's small, and entry is only marginally faster than
    handwriting at best. However, the big problem is that these devics are
    pen based. Switching screens, setting check boxes, etc all requires a
    pen. With a thumboard, you're constantly having to tuck the pen away and
    pull it back out, or worse yet put it down somewhere (and possibly
    forget it).

    YMMV.

  18. Re: PDA for busy tech consultant



    A lot of different input methods was discussed, so I'll throw mine in. I'm
    surprised that no one has mentioned this, but I do find it quite useful,
    esp. in the case where you need to enter a moderate amount of data, and the
    data comes in small "chunks". For example, in a seminar where the speaker
    throws out juicy tid bits every 10 seconds or so, and you don't want to lose
    your focus on his point while jotting down notes.

    I personally have the Clie' NX80 (yes, the one with the thumb keypad, which
    is BTW surprisingly fast!) But what I use the most is the Clie Memo
    program. It's pretty much a scribble pad, so you can scribble as fast you
    can. There are different zoom modes to allow you to zoom in and out very
    fast. Create a new page with a tap of a button; certainly FASTER! than
    flipping the page on your paper pad. Switching pen size and colors are also
    very convenient. I use this method quite often, and I can take a lot of
    notes, many times without even taking my eyes off the speaker!

    Here is the best part! Transcribing is OPTIONAL! I always meant to
    transcribe everything I take down, but in reality, how often do we take
    notes that are that important really? The answer, at least for me, is
    NOT that often. We just think we need it there "just in case" we need to
    look it up. For me, I just leave it in the scribbled form. At least it's
    there electronically. No, I can't do an electronic search for it, but
    mannually searching for what I am looking for, esp. when there are
    thumbnails, is a breeze. For the really really important stuffs, I do go
    back an retype it. At the end of the day, no tree were killed in the
    process, and all are happy

    Am I the only one? Com'on someone please back me up! ;-) hehehe....

    Oh yeah, the next useful data entry form is the voice recorder.

    Then the thumbpad

    Then the graffiti

    Then the wireless keyboard

    Then the computer

    Then.......



  19. Re: PDA for busy tech consultant

    >Having worked with both, my honest opinion is that the thumboard is next
    >to useless. It's small, and entry is only marginally faster than
    >handwriting at best. However, the big problem is that these devics are
    >pen based. Switching screens, setting check boxes, etc all requires a
    >pen. With a thumboard, you're constantly having to tuck the pen away and
    >pull it back out, or worse yet put it down somewhere (and possibly
    >forget it).


    I see

    So you are saying that it is impossible to do ALL the commands with a
    thumb board that is available via pen?

    I just assumed that the thumb board allowed all the features of
    commands and navigation that is available via pen..... i.e. that one
    could use either method inter-changably?

  20. Re: PDA for busy tech consultant

    me6@privacy.net wrote:
    > I see
    >
    > So you are saying that it is impossible to do ALL the commands with a
    > thumb board that is available via pen?
    >
    > I just assumed that the thumb board allowed all the features of
    > commands and navigation that is available via pen..... i.e. that one
    > could use either method inter-changably?


    Not so. At least not until PalmSource reinvents the old DOS trick, ALT-NNN.
    Even relatively common characters, like |, may be impossible to enter with
    some thumbboards.

    Regards,
    --
    *Art


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