Palmtop use now illegal in cars in Caifornia? - Handheld

This is a discussion on Palmtop use now illegal in cars in Caifornia? - Handheld ; I'm hoping this is an Aprils fools joke. But it might not be. According to the text of AB 301's modifications to Section 27602 of the California Vehicle Code: http://www.itsa.org/resources.nsf/Files/AB%20301-chaptered/$file/AB%20301-chaptered.pdf use of a video display capable of diplaying entertainment or ...

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Thread: Palmtop use now illegal in cars in Caifornia?

  1. Palmtop use now illegal in cars in Caifornia?

    I'm hoping this is an Aprils fools joke. But it might not be.

    According to the text of AB 301's modifications to Section 27602 of the
    California Vehicle Code:
    http://www.itsa.org/resources.nsf/Files/AB%20301-chaptered/$file/AB%20301-chaptered.pdf

    use of a video display capable of diplaying entertainment or business
    applications in the front seat of a moving vehicle is now against the law
    in California.

    Since my Palm handheld includes a display, and has a spreadsheet and an
    mp3 player application installed, it looks like turning it on in the
    front seat of a moving car may now be illegal. Even if done by a
    passenger.


    IMHO. YMMV. IANAL.
    --
    Ron Nicholson rhn AT nicholson DOT com http://www.nicholson.com/rhn/
    #include // only my own opinions, etc.

  2. Re: Palmtop use now illegal in cars in Caifornia?

    Ronald H. Nicholson, Jr. writes:
    > use of a video display capable of diplaying entertainment or business
    > applications in the front seat of a moving vehicle is now against the law
    > in California.
    >
    > Since my Palm handheld includes a display, and has a spreadsheet and an
    > mp3 player application installed, it looks like turning it on in the
    > front seat of a moving car may now be illegal. Even if done by a
    > passenger.


    They're talking about in-car TV sets and DVD players. Yeah, some
    people watch those while driving. Even when it's just a passenger
    watching, it can still distract the driver pretty bad (they're usually
    mounted near the rearview mirror, or in the middle of the dash).

    They could have worded the statute a bit better, I suppose.

  3. Re: Palmtop use now illegal in cars in Caifornia?

    Paul Rubin wrote:
    > Ronald H. Nicholson, Jr. writes:
    >
    >>use of a video display capable of diplaying entertainment or business
    >>applications in the front seat of a moving vehicle is now against the law
    >>in California.
    >>
    >>Since my Palm handheld includes a display, and has a spreadsheet and an
    >>mp3 player application installed, it looks like turning it on in the
    >>front seat of a moving car may now be illegal. Even if done by a
    >>passenger.

    >
    >
    > They're talking about in-car TV sets and DVD players. Yeah, some
    > people watch those while driving. Even when it's just a passenger
    > watching, it can still distract the driver pretty bad (they're usually
    > mounted near the rearview mirror, or in the middle of the dash).
    >
    > They could have worded the statute a bit better, I suppose.


    Gives the state an additional opportunity to generate revenue.
    The more vague, the more revenue.
    mike

    --
    Return address is VALID.
    Bunch of stuff For Sale and Wanted at the link below.
    Toshiba & Compaq LiIon Batteries, Test Equipment
    Honda CB-125S $800 in PDX
    TEK Sampling Sweep Plugin and RM564
    Tek 2465 $800, ham radio, 30pS pulser
    Tektronix Concept Books, spot welding head...
    http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Monitor/4710/


  4. Re: Palmtop use now illegal in cars in Caifornia?

    Total injustice here. A sign of corruption by Government Officials....

    Ronald wrote:
    > I'm hoping this is an Aprils fools joke. But it might not be.
    >
    > According to the text of AB 301's modifications to Section 27602 of the
    > California Vehicle Code:
    > http://www.itsa.org/resources.nsf/Files/AB%20301-chaptered/$file/AB%20301-chaptered.pdf
    >
    > use of a video display capable of diplaying entertainment or business
    > applications in the front seat of a moving vehicle is now against the law
    > in California.
    >
    > Since my Palm handheld includes a display, and has a spreadsheet and an
    > mp3 player application installed, it looks like turning it on in the
    > front seat of a moving car may now be illegal. Even if done by a
    > passenger.
    >
    >
    > IMHO. YMMV. IANAL.



  5. Re: Palmtop use now illegal in cars in Caifornia?

    "Mark Kim" wrote in message
    news:LAmJb.262195$_M.1220678@attbi_s54...
    > Total injustice here. A sign of corruption by Government Officials....
    >

    Corrupt? Why do you say that?



  6. Re: Palmtop use now illegal in cars in Caifornia?

    Mark Kim with the help of 999 monkeys eventually
    managed to type:

    >Total injustice here. A sign of corruption by Government Officials....


    Do I detect a faint whiff of sarcasm?


    --
    A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to
    get its pants on, but what was the truth doing with no pants on in the
    first place? --Winston Churchill

  7. Re: Palmtop use now illegal in cars in Caifornia?

    Charles Hawtrey wrote:
    >
    > Mark Kim with the help of 999 monkeys eventually
    > managed to type:
    >
    > >Total injustice here. A sign of corruption by Government Officials....

    >
    > Do I detect a faint whiff of sarcasm?


    Faint? I can smell it over here!

    Larry

  8. Re: Palmtop use now illegal in cars in Caifornia?

    Paul Rubin writes:

    > Ronald H. Nicholson, Jr. writes:
    > > use of a video display capable of diplaying entertainment or business
    > > applications in the front seat of a moving vehicle is now against the law
    > > in California.
    > >
    > > Since my Palm handheld includes a display, and has a spreadsheet and an
    > > mp3 player application installed, it looks like turning it on in the
    > > front seat of a moving car may now be illegal. Even if done by a
    > > passenger.

    >
    > They're talking about in-car TV sets and DVD players. Yeah, some
    > people watch those while driving. Even when it's just a passenger
    > watching, it can still distract the driver pretty bad (they're usually
    > mounted near the rearview mirror, or in the middle of the dash).
    >
    > They could have worded the statute a bit better, I suppose.


    First, it's pretty clear it's intended to broaden the existing
    prohibition agains TVs to game systems and computers ("business
    applications" doesn't mean DVDs). Second, it doesn't say anything
    about "installed."

    However, it does say the display has to be visible to the driver to be
    prohibited, so if you could make an argument that the driver couldn't
    see the display it ought to be OK.
    --
    Joseph J. Pfeiffer, Jr., Ph.D. Phone -- (505) 646-1605
    Department of Computer Science FAX -- (505) 646-1002
    New Mexico State University http://www.cs.nmsu.edu/~pfeiffer
    Southwestern NM Regional Science and Engr Fair: http://www.nmsu.edu/~scifair

  9. Re: Palmtop use now illegal in cars in Caifornia?

    Jr. wrote:
    > I'm hoping this is an Aprils fools joke. But it might not be.
    >
    > According to the text of AB 301's modifications to Section 27602 of
    > the California Vehicle Code:
    >

    http://www.itsa.org/resources.nsf/Files/AB%20301-chaptered/$file/AB%20301-chaptered.pdf
    >
    > use of a video display capable of diplaying entertainment or business
    > applications in the front seat of a moving vehicle is now against the
    > law in California.


    That neatly outlaws the taxameter you find in most modern taxis. It is not
    only capable of displaying business applications (including reminders,
    messaging, calendars etc.), but IS a business application to start with.

    Of course, if the above wording is correct, you can also argue that your
    GPS+PDA isn't in the front seat, but mounted on the dashboard...

    --
    *Art


  10. Re: Palmtop use now illegal in cars in Caifornia?

    Hey, what about the police cars with laptops in them!?

    Marcus

    "Arthur Hagen" wrote in message
    news:he0ic1-m8e.ln1@kether.broomstick.com...
    > Jr. wrote:
    > > I'm hoping this is an Aprils fools joke. But it might not be.
    > >
    > > According to the text of AB 301's modifications to Section 27602 of
    > > the California Vehicle Code:
    > >

    >

    http://www.itsa.org/resources.nsf/Files/AB%20301-chaptered/$file/AB%20301-chaptered.pdf
    > >
    > > use of a video display capable of diplaying entertainment or business
    > > applications in the front seat of a moving vehicle is now against the
    > > law in California.

    >
    > That neatly outlaws the taxameter you find in most modern taxis. It is

    not
    > only capable of displaying business applications (including reminders,
    > messaging, calendars etc.), but IS a business application to start with.
    >
    > Of course, if the above wording is correct, you can also argue that your
    > GPS+PDA isn't in the front seat, but mounted on the dashboard...
    >
    > --
    > *Art
    >




  11. Re: Palmtop use now illegal in cars in Caifornia?

    Marcus Baird wrote:
    > Hey, what about the police cars with laptops in them!?


    Clearly illegal. Make a citizen's arrest the next time you see one in
    California!

    Regards,
    --
    *Art


  12. Re: Palmtop use now illegal in cars in Caifornia?

    "Arthur Hagen" wrote in message
    news:s2ijc1-q5m.ln1@kether.broomstick.com...
    > Marcus Baird wrote:
    > > Hey, what about the police cars with laptops in them!?

    >
    > Clearly illegal. Make a citizen's arrest the next time you see one in
    > California!
    >

    Yeah!! And use force if you have to!!



  13. Re: Palmtop use now illegal in cars in Caifornia?

    In article , rhn@nojunk.rahul.net says...
    > I'm hoping this is an Aprils fools joke. But it might not be.
    >
    > According to the text of AB 301's modifications to Section 27602 of the
    > California Vehicle Code:
    > http://www.itsa.org/resources.nsf/Files/AB%20301-chaptered/$file/AB%20301-chaptered.pdf
    >
    > use of a video display capable of diplaying entertainment or business
    > applications in the front seat of a moving vehicle is now against the law
    > in California.
    >
    > Since my Palm handheld includes a display, and has a spreadsheet and an
    > mp3 player application installed, it looks like turning it on in the
    > front seat of a moving car may now be illegal. Even if done by a
    > passenger.
    >
    >
    > IMHO. YMMV. IANAL.
    >

    Ohio has a blanket law stating "Distracted Driving". This covers cell
    phones - handsfree or not, TV, PDAs, makeup, shaving, ARGUING, smacking
    the kids in the backseat etc.

    I've seen it enforced a lot more lately. Good thing to, cause it's
    not that people can't hold a phone and talk and drive, it's that most
    people can't freaking pay attention to the road when simply talking to
    someone not in the car.

  14. Re: Palmtop use now illegal in cars in Caifornia?

    Ronald H. Nicholson, Jr. wrote in message news:...
    > I'm hoping this is an Aprils fools joke. But it might not be.
    >
    > According to the text of AB 301's modifications to Section 27602 of the
    > California Vehicle Code:
    > http://www.itsa.org/resources.nsf/Files/AB%20301-chaptered/$file/AB%20301-chaptered.pdf
    >
    > use of a video display capable of diplaying entertainment or business
    > applications in the front seat of a moving vehicle is now against the law
    > in California.
    >
    > Since my Palm handheld includes a display, and has a spreadsheet and an
    > mp3 player application installed, it looks like turning it on in the
    > front seat of a moving car may now be illegal. Even if done by a
    > passenger.
    >
    >
    > IMHO. YMMV. IANAL.


    Who wants to live in California anyway? The land of blond women with
    fake boobs, ugh.

  15. Re: Palmtop use now illegal in cars in Caifornia?

    Arthur Hagen wrote:
    > That neatly outlaws the taxameter you find in most modern taxis.


    ALL taxis have taximeters. That's the definition of "taxi". If it
    doesn't have a taximeter, it's just a "cab".

    --
    John W. Kennedy
    "But now is a new thing which is very old--
    that the rich make themselves richer and not poorer,
    which is the true Gospel, for the poor's sake."
    -- Charles Williams. "Judgement at Chelmsford"


  16. Re: Palmtop use now illegal in cars in Caifornia?

    John W. Kennedy wrote:
    > Arthur Hagen wrote:
    >> That neatly outlaws the taxameter you find in most modern taxis.

    >
    > ALL taxis have taximeters. That's the definition of "taxi". If it
    > doesn't have a taximeter, it's just a "cab".


    Please re-read the sentence I wrote. "The taxameter you find in most modern
    taxis" is the object phrase, and there's no ", which" changing the meaning
    to what you apparently read.

    --
    *Art


  17. Re: Palmtop use now illegal in cars in Caifornia?

    Arthur Hagen wrote:

    > John W. Kennedy wrote:
    >
    >>Arthur Hagen wrote:
    >>
    >>>That neatly outlaws the taxameter you find in most modern taxis.

    >>
    >>ALL taxis have taximeters. That's the definition of "taxi". If it
    >>doesn't have a taximeter, it's just a "cab".

    >
    >
    > Please re-read the sentence I wrote. "The taxameter you find in most modern
    > taxis" is the object phrase, and there's no ", which" changing the meaning
    > to what you apparently read.


    I'm sorry; I didn't know I was addressing someone too cowardly to admit
    a mistake.

    You misspelled "taximeter", too.

    --
    John W. Kennedy
    "But now is a new thing which is very old--
    that the rich make themselves richer and not poorer,
    which is the true Gospel, for the poor's sake."
    -- Charles Williams. "Judgement at Chelmsford"


  18. Re: Palmtop use now illegal in cars in Caifornia?

    John W. Kennedy wrote:
    > Arthur Hagen wrote:
    >
    >> John W. Kennedy wrote:
    >>
    >>> Arthur Hagen wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> That neatly outlaws the taxameter you find in most modern taxis.
    >>>
    >>> ALL taxis have taximeters. That's the definition of "taxi". If it
    >>> doesn't have a taximeter, it's just a "cab".

    >>
    >> Please re-read the sentence I wrote. "The taxameter you find in
    >> most modern taxis" is the object phrase, and there's no ", which"
    >> changing the meaning to what you apparently read.

    >
    > I'm sorry; I didn't know I was addressing someone too cowardly to
    > admit a mistake.


    What mistake? There would be no NEED to add "you find in most modern taxis"
    if I meant all taxis, new or old. It was a qualifying part of the sentence.
    If I had added it as a nonqualifying sentence part, it would have to have
    been separated by a comma, which it was't, so I hadn't.

    Quick rule of thumb:
    "... (that) ..." is restrictive, qualifying the preceding statement.
    "..., which ..." is nonrestrictive, referring to the antecedent.

    Look at these two sentences:

    He sold the paintings he thought were fakes.
    He sold the paintings, which he thought were fakes.

    The meaning changes radically between these sentences, because the first one
    uses a restrictive clause, and the second one doesn't. In the first
    sentence, he kept the paintings he thought were originals, while in the
    second sentence, he sold all the paintings, believing them all to be fakes.

    This is a direct analogue to the following two sentences:

    That neatly outlaws the taximeter you find in most modern taxis.
    That neatly outlaws the taximeter, which you find in most modern taxis.

    The first sentence qualifies (restricts) the taximeters in question to those
    you find in most modern taxis, while the second sentence is non-restrictive,
    but adds an observation that most modern taxis has a taximeter.

    I think you're the one who doesn't want to admit your failure to read and
    understand long sentences, or the which/that rules. I don't think this
    denial is due to cowardice on your part, though -- more likely a trampled
    ego.

    As a friendly pointer to understanding sentences like the above one better,
    I can recommend the following books (which can also be purchased as e-books
    from Palm Digital Media):

    "Sleeping Dogs Don't Lay - Practical Advice for the Grammatically
    Challenged" by Richard Lederer and Richard Dowis.
    "Bryson's Dictionary of Troublesome Words" by Bill Bryson

    > You misspelled "taximeter", too.


    Indeed it was misspelt. Is that why you misinterpreted?

    --
    *Art


  19. Re: Palmtop use now illegal in cars in Caifornia?

    Last month in the UK a new law came into force which was an attempted to
    stop the use of Cell Phones in cars which are not hands-free. The law
    doesn't preclude the use of self installed cradles but definately prefers
    factory installed systems.

    The law specifically includes provisions that mean cradles must be used for
    Palm type devcies and reading of the section on using devices seems to imply
    that anything more than a single click could be seen to be in breach of the
    new law. So for devices like the Tungsten W, you need a cradle and a blue
    tooth headset... and with two clicks so dial from the speed dial list..
    only. Looking numbers up in your address book is definately a no-no.

    Seems like a great excuse to get a calling service. You call them with a
    single click, they have your address book, look someone up, dial them
    number, connect the two calls and then disconnect. Didn't we used to call
    these people secretarys ??

    So, beware if you are coming to the UK and want to use your Plam in the
    drivers seat. There is a usefull discussion and description of the BBC web
    site and I'm sure you can google others.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/3251725.stm

    ++Mark.



  20. Re: Palmtop use now illegal in cars in Caifornia?

    Bruno wrote:
    >
    > "Arthur Hagen" wrote in message
    > news:s2ijc1-q5m.ln1@kether.broomstick.com...
    > > Marcus Baird wrote:
    > > > Hey, what about the police cars with laptops in them!?

    > >
    > > Clearly illegal. Make a citizen's arrest the next time you see one in
    > > California!
    > >

    > Yeah!! And use force if you have to!!


    Better yet, read the actual law. It clearly exempts these.

    --
    Mitch
    "Actually, after long thought, I'm not sure that
    America _is_ the stupidest country on Earth -
    it's just that they promote their stupidity so effectively."
    Mil Millington

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