Corrupt Installation Disks - GEOS

This is a discussion on Corrupt Installation Disks - GEOS ; Thanks Jens Wayne. On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 17:25:56 +0100, Jens-Michael Gross wrote: > Wayne schrieb: >> >> Thanks, got it installed (finnaly after much hassel), could not complete >> setup as when I Ensemble it tells me: >> >> ...

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Thread: Corrupt Installation Disks

  1. Re: Corrupt Installation Disks

    Thanks Jens

    Wayne.

    On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 17:25:56 +0100, Jens-Michael Gross
    wrote:

    > Wayne schrieb:
    >>
    >> Thanks, got it installed (finnaly after much hassel), could not complete
    >> setup as when I Ensemble it tells me:
    >>
    >> No valid font files found in userdata/font directory (KR-29).

    >
    > A typical problem if there are not enough DOS file handles.
    > Add the line 'files=120' to your config.sys file in c:\
    >
    > Grossibaer
    >




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  2. Re: Corrupt Installation Disks


    "Wayne" wrote in message
    newsprxs8zuf1gcp3q2@news.optusnet.com.au...
    > On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 10:42:39 GMT, Holger Laux
    > wrote:
    > There is many, many millions of dollers to be
    > easily made out of Geoworks. Geoworks, is one of a few OS companies, that
    > if combined, could take on the OS world.


    Yeah but Geoworks abandoned GEOS on the desktop almost 10 years ago. All the
    others who picked it up have been fighting the limitations that you raised
    about the OS lacking the ability to break through certain resource barriers,
    discussed here ad infinitum. Taking on the OS world is a cool idea. Sort of
    like a jihad against Windows, Linux, MacOS, et al. My mind is trying to make
    parallels between that and religion.

    What would it take in number of developers and money to make it happen, now
    that Breadbox is close to owning the whole shabang?



  3. Re: Corrupt Installation Disks

    Some companies make previouse versions/products freeware for marketing or
    community purposes, I thought I would ask rather than trust the site. I
    can't remember the URLS, but I found them by doing a web search.

    Thanks


    Wayne.


    their products open On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 17:22:54 +0100, Jens-Michael Gross
    wrote:

    > Wayne schrieb:
    >>
    >> I once came across a site that had a number of the different geos office
    >> suits up for download. I couldn't find them again but found a couple of
    >> sites with Newdeal office and Ensemble 2.0 for free download. This site
    >> implied that they were now free to the public for legal download. Is
    >> this
    >> true, what is people's opinions on this?

    >
    > Definitely not.
    > It is still copyrighted. Remember, even 'abandonware' isn't freeware. It
    > is only unlikely that someone will sue you for spreading it, if it was
    > really abandoned. But in some cases, either a newer version is still
    > being sold commercially, or the product was bought to remove it from the
    > market (in favor of a competing product). In this case there is strong
    > interest of the owner that it will not be spread any further. (like
    > FontMonger, which was bought by Adobe and taken from the market)
    >
    > Anzway, can you send me the URL? (well, I have more GEOS versions
    > than I need, but just for completion of my 'museum' I'd like to take a
    > look at it)
    >
    > Grossibaer
    >
    >




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  4. Re: Corrupt Installation Disks

    Wayne schrieb:
    >
    > Some companies make previouse versions/products freeware for marketing or
    > community purposes, I thought I would ask rather than trust the site. I
    > can't remember the URLS, but I found them by doing a web search.


    Indeed, some do so. This actually means that either a dedicated freeware
    version is issued (where the freeware notice is built-in) or that the
    company has a website where the software is specifically listed as
    shareware or something like that.

    Nothing applies to any version of GEOS (the original company Geoworks is
    more or less out of business, NewDeal is and Breadbox did not name any
    previous version as freeware). Of course, where nobody cares, nobody
    will accuse you

    The only freely distributable versions of GEOS are geoPublish
    (shareware), the GlobalPC Demo and (I think) Breadbox Ensemble Lite. But
    none of them is a 'full' version.

    Grossibaer

    --
    If Microsoft would invest only 5 minutes to make Windows boot 1/1000
    second faster,
    we would save 30 working hours worldwide every day.

  5. Re: Corrupt Installation Disks

    I'm not dissagreeing with what you said.

    Anyway I got Ensemble working, the company that sent me the old notebook
    formatted it W98, I have found, downloaded and installed the freeware
    DRDOS 7.03 (as I couldn't find downloads for my corrept MSDOS5.1 and PCDOS
    6.1) and it works perfectly (no patches needed). Thanks for your help
    Jens. Good question though, whicg is better DRDOS 7.03, .04/.05 patch, or
    freedos Beta 9?

    Thanks

    Wayne.


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  6. Re: Corrupt Installation Disks

    On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 16:56:38 GMT, Pat wrote:

    >
    > Yeah but Geoworks abandoned GEOS on the desktop almost 10 years ago. All
    > the
    > others who picked it up have been fighting the limitations that you
    > raised
    > about the OS lacking the ability to break through certain resource
    > barriers,
    > discussed here ad infinitum. Taking on the OS world is a cool idea. Sort


    That is my piont the work has finally been done (by others) and can
    finally be ported over (admittedly it won't work on a low resource 386,
    but Geoworks can allways default to standard Geoworks/JAVA model or
    Geoworks for XT 286's, rememeber Geoworks had a Personal Java that
    Breadbox should have access too).

    > of
    > like a jihad against Windows, Linux, MacOS, et al. My mind is trying to
    > make
    > parallels between that and religion.
    >
    > What would it take in number of developers and money to make it happen,
    > now
    > that Breadbox is close to owning the whole shabang?


    Well thats the beauty of it low price, good performance, efficency,
    USBflashkey OS (I bought one and did this early this year), tens of
    thousands of Java programs backed up by thousands of developers. For $25
    OEM price it would be good for system builders, and people can buy a
    Playstanion 2 for real games. You could have it on board for instant
    bootup. So yes there is a small future there. But what I was talking
    about, the big guns, is that there is world beating tech and compatability
    with a few non linux companies out there to offer a real alternative in
    low priced devices, and long battery life cheap portables. I can see how
    the companies can go to it. The problem is that there are few companies
    and individuals good enough to do it, Steve Jobs is too much of an
    isolationist (as far as outside tech/bnusiness), our Sun founder should
    have realised that they should have dropped the interpreted model with a
    compiled model many years before they did (Java/OAK started on the Amiga
    back in the 80's) Java is wrong tech (but pionts the way well enough), you
    virtually name it there are problems with the tech or the people.

    The reasons things fail is not just technical, market appeal (we have
    that) but politics and business interests. So if Breadbox wants to
    succeed big time they need to shakeup big time to get the right, but
    reliable/trustworthy, people in the right positions, they will make the
    difference to cut through the politics, culture and business interests,
    and get the money to do it. Big Bill concentrates on business matters and
    the market, technicalities have nugged MS products for years and though
    they are trying to catch up, but they are the biggest company. Can't we
    have technical excellence, efficency, low price and market dominance at
    the same time, yes I believe we could. Now the companies I had in mind
    are good to poor (BEOS was one of them) performaers in niche market, but
    in need of great leadership. But the tens of millions I mentioned were
    from new markets, very easy to get into with 10's of millions of new users
    very quickly, I was eyeying it myself, but I have conflicting business
    interest (my own VOS spec), I don't have the money or people access, and
    Geoworks sold to Breadbox instead of going fire sale (cuts the purchase
    cost in half). I have worked on my own VOS, that is why I know the
    companies/prodcuts (to buy) that could compete with it. Geoworks would
    make an excellent low end front end office package, plus object frame
    works etc.

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  7. Re: Corrupt Installation Disks

    Wayne schrieb:
    >
    > I'm not dissagreeing with what you said.


    Don't let Pat or Bob hear this. In their opinion, disagreeing with
    everything is a 'must' to survive in the world.

    > Anyway I got Ensemble working, the company that sent me the old notebook
    > formatted it W98, I have found, downloaded and installed the freeware
    > DRDOS 7.03 (as I couldn't find downloads for my corrept MSDOS5.1 and PCDOS
    > 6.1) and it works perfectly (no patches needed). Thanks for your help
    > Jens. Good question though, whicg is better DRDOS 7.03, .04/.05 patch, or
    > freedos Beta 9?


    Well, DRDOS has the advantage that the task switcher (not the
    multitasker) is supported by GEOS. Means that you can launch DOS
    programs from withing GEOS as new tasks instead of shutting down GEOS,
    and you will see other DOS tasks in the GEOS task list.
    I don't know about the different patches. 7.03 was the last i tried.

    If only the text clipboard of DRDOS 6 would be supported again in the
    task switcher, I'd move from DRDOS 6 to 7

    Grossibaer

    --
    If Microsoft would invest only 5 minutes to make Windows boot 1/1000
    second faster,
    we would save 30 working hours worldwide every day.

  8. Re: Corrupt Installation Disks

    On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 16:32:28 +0100, Jens-Michael Gross
    wrote:

    > Wayne schrieb:
    >>
    >> I'm not dissagreeing with what you said.

    >
    > Don't let Pat or Bob hear this. In their opinion, disagreeing with
    > everything is a 'must' to survive in the world.


    Unfortunately that is the dominance principle prevalent today, rather than
    the getting along principle Of course some people's idea of getting
    allong is you do everything they say! Other versions of humbleness is,
    you listen to everything they say and when they say jump, you say "How
    High Maam"

    > Well, DRDOS has the advantage that the task switcher (not the
    > multitasker) is supported by GEOS. Means that you can launch DOS
    > programs from withing GEOS as new tasks instead of shutting down GEOS,
    > and you will see other DOS tasks in the GEOS task list.


    Wow thanks, I'll enable it now, pity that Ensemble didn't piont these
    things out during installs.

    > I don't know about the different patches. 7.03 was the last i tried.


    Well there were OEM boot disks done with the latest version of the command
    and io.sys files before they stopped. The patch (off the offical support
    page, both are hard to track down) allows patching of 7.03 files without
    illegal copying (I think). Both my paid DOses went blank, and the
    PCDOS2000 cost too much. I think they need to make Ensemble work without
    DOS and include a free DOS. Even if they could just include a
    redirected link to a freedos for users to download themselves.

    >
    > If only the text clipboard of DRDOS 6 would be supported again in the
    > task switcher, I'd move from DRDOS 6 to 7


    Interesting ommission, in a none GUI environment, a most usefull feature.

    I've had Geoworks on a USB disk key for a while, I had the brilliant idea
    that maybe I should put it on a flash card in a 3 1/2 floppy disk adapter,
    that way it could work on most machines? Has anybody tried this allready?

    Thanks

    Wayne.

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  9. Re: Corrupt Installation Disks


    "Wayne" wrote in message
    newsprxv4z2rugcp3q2@news.optusnet.com.au...
    > That is my piont the work has finally been done (by others) and can
    > finally be ported over (admittedly it won't work on a low resource 386,
    > but Geoworks can allways default to standard Geoworks/JAVA model or
    > Geoworks for XT 286's, rememeber Geoworks had a Personal Java that
    > Breadbox should have access too).


    (1) Geoworks developed Personal Java ONLY for the GEOS-SC Smartphone, and
    not for GEOS-1, 2, or 3, and their derivatives.
    (2) Geoworks never managed to stay viable in Smartphones long enough to
    successfully productize their GEOS-SC OS.
    (3) GEOS-SC and Personal Java are end-gamed software that hosts no "for
    sale" products anywhere in the world.
    (4) Geoworks announced their Personal Java is NOT transportable to the
    GEOS-1, 2, or 3 versions of their OS family.
    (4) Geoworks' GEOS-SC can NOT be ported to a desktop platform, because its
    desigend to host a targeted low-power family of devices.
    (5) Its not feasible to develop JAVA on GEOS 3 for the desktop, because it
    would require an enormous amount of capital, and no bank or investment house
    would ever underwrite such an proposal.

    > The problem is that there are few companies
    > and individuals good enough to do it, Steve Jobs is too much of an
    > isolationist (as far as outside tech/bnusiness), our Sun founder should
    > have realised that they should have dropped the interpreted model with a
    > compiled model many years before they did (Java/OAK started on the Amiga
    > back in the 80's) Java is wrong tech (but pionts the way well enough), you
    > virtually name it there are problems with the tech or the people.


    Steve Jobs has his personal agenda, and its to sell proprietary Apple
    hardware in niche markets which are increasingly boutique. While CompUSA,
    Gateway, and numerous other PC consumer stores are aiming non-PC products at
    old and new markets, like Home Theater, Cameras (Still and Video),
    Cellphones, MP3 players, etc. The Best Buy model seems to be the one that
    has become the template for success.

    Sun, is presently getting clobbered in the same way they exploited others,
    in their rise to power, by getting eaten from the ground up. In Sun's case,
    the enemy is PCs running Windows, Linux, and MacOS, in standalone
    workstations and clustered servers. IMHO, Sun is wounded and has not yet
    found a strategy to keep the red ink from potentially overwhelming their
    future balance sheets. With the exception of long-term computer player IBM,
    the landscape is littered with companies that thought they could dominate
    the competition by using their "tried and true" product/business models for
    computing (e.g.. DG, DEC, Prime with their minis, Sun and Apollo with
    stripped down low-cost workstations running Unix, plus all the mainframe IBM
    wanna-be manufacturers over the last four decades).

    To all of them, I dedicate my favorite, yet appropriate, Percy Bysshe
    Shelley poem.

    I met a traveler from an antique land
    Who said: Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
    Stand in the desert. Near them, on the sand,
    Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whos frown,
    And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command,
    Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
    Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
    The hand that mocked them and the heart that fed;

    And on the pedestal these words appear:
    "My name is Ozymandius, king of kings:
    Look on my words, ye Mighty, and despair!"
    Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
    Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare
    The lone and level sands stretch far away.


    > The reasons things fail is not just technical, market appeal (we have
    > that) but politics and business interests. So if Breadbox wants to
    > succeed big time they need to shakeup big time to get the right, but
    > reliable/trustworthy, people in the right positions, they will make the
    > difference to cut through the politics, culture and business interests,
    > and get the money to do it.


    Yeah, how true!

    I wonder if John, whilst shaving in the morning, looks at himself in the
    mirror and thinks "Do I really need the grief, clawing my way to the top,
    when someday I'll just end up like Ozymandius?" ;-)



  10. Re: Corrupt Installation Disks

    Hi Wayne,

    "Wayne" schreef in bericht
    newsprxxsy3gtgcp3q2@news.optusnet.com.au...

    > I've had Geoworks on a USB disk key for a while, I had the brilliant idea
    > that maybe I should put it on a flash card in a 3 1/2 floppy disk adapter,
    > that way it could work on most machines? Has anybody tried this allready?
    >
    > Thanks
    >
    > Wayne.
    >

    I have Geos on a compact flash card in a PCMCIA adapter, works great!

    Edward Nijs



  11. Re: Corrupt Installation Disks

    Wayne schrieb:
    >
    > On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 16:32:28 +0100, Jens-Michael Gross
    > wrote:
    >
    > > Wayne schrieb:
    > >>
    > >> I'm not dissagreeing with what you said.

    > >
    > > Don't let Pat or Bob hear this. In their opinion, disagreeing with
    > > everything is a 'must' to survive in the world.

    >
    > Unfortunately that is the dominance principle prevalent today, rather than
    > the getting along principle Of course some people's idea of getting
    > allong is you do everything they say! Other versions of humbleness is,
    > you listen to everything they say and when they say jump, you say "How
    > High Maam"


    I prefer listening and then saying 'No!'

    > Wow thanks, I'll enable it now, pity that Ensemble didn't piont these
    > things out during installs.


    There is no atomatic hardware/software detection. Many drivers will test
    whether the hardware you selected is already there (video drivers refuse
    to load if ther eis no proper card, mous drivers require you to move the
    mouse and click on a button before they accept the setting), but the
    non-switching task switcher driver is standard and you have to manually
    select the DR-Dos TaskMax driver (or the NovellDos 7 task manager
    driver, which is basically the same)

    > I think they need to make Ensemble work without
    > DOS and include a free DOS. Even if they could just include a
    > redirected link to a freedos for users to download themselves.


    completely without DOS would not only remove compatibility with Windows
    (as sort of an office suite), it would also require to write lots of
    GEOS drivers for things that are done by DOS right now, such as CD rom
    driver, CD filesystem, HD driver Floppy driver, HD/Floppy file system,
    caches, mouse drivers for more obscure mice, drivers for ZIP or even
    network and many more.
    As it is now, GEOS jsut needs to use the documented interfaces to these
    DOS functions instead of requireing a complete rewrite of GEOS drivers
    for hardware which documentation often isn't available at all.
    Well, a Link to a free DOS where you can order GEOS would be nice, but,
    well...
    And I think, a link to a free DOS on the bradbox pages would piss off
    those guys who bundle GEOS now with DR-Dos

    > > If only the text clipboard of DRDOS 6 would be supported again in the
    > > task switcher, I'd move from DRDOS 6 to 7

    >
    > Interesting ommission, in a none GUI environment, a most usefull feature.


    I think the reason was that TaskMax didn't support too many video modes
    and therefore the feature had some problems (at least in the DOS->GEOS
    direction) so when adding better support for different video modes, they
    completely disabled it.
    A real shame. There was no real reason for it. it would have still
    worked where it worked and not where not. But before people complain
    that it isn't working everywhere, disable it completely

    Unfortunately, this feature was not only disabled, but als the API call
    was still handled with a dummy handler, so it was impossible to install
    a different handler before loading taskmax. It would have been necessary
    to load a handler before TaskMgr (so it is available in every task) and
    in each new task (to enable it) too. Or to mess around with TaskMgr.


    > I've had Geoworks on a USB disk key for a while, I had the brilliant idea
    > that maybe I should put it on a flash card in a 3 1/2 floppy disk adapter,
    > that way it could work on most machines? Has anybody tried this allready?


    I remember a GEOS 1.2 installation on two 1.2MB disks. One with DOS and
    compressed files (loaded into a RAM disk), the other one for storing the
    documents and writable system files (inserted after filling the ramdisk
    but before actually starting GEOS).
    Nice thing Worked on every PC (well, it was in 486 times) without
    touching the local HD or even needing one.
    It was slooooow anyway (all these disk writes) to work with

    Grossibaer

    --
    If Microsoft would invest only 5 minutes to make Windows boot 1/1000
    second faster,
    we would save 30 working hours worldwide every day.

  12. Re: Corrupt Installation Disks

    On Sun, 02 Nov 2003 00:12:51 +0100, Jens-Michael Gross
    wrote:

    > non-switching task switcher driver is standard and you have to manually
    > select the DR-Dos TaskMax driver (or the NovellDos 7 task manager
    > driver, which is basically the same)


    Forgive my ignorance about Geos, but what is the "non-switching task
    switcher driver", how does it compare to the TaskMax?

    > completely without DOS would not only remove compatibility with Windows
    > (as sort of an office suite), it would also require to write lots of
    > GEOS drivers for things that are done by DOS right now, such as CD rom


    The crunch, didn't think about that, it's a pity. But still porting just
    enough of DOS for ti to work is the nsame thing.

    > And I think, a link to a free DOS on the bradbox pages would piss off
    > those guys who bundle GEOS now with DR-Dos


    Yes, but they are selling Ensemble+DOS for as much as XP (+openoffice),
    and there is perfectly free stuff for non comercial use. There are new
    PC's for $199.

    > A real shame. There was no real reason for it. it would have still
    > worked where it worked and not where not. But before people complain
    > that it isn't working everywhere, disable it completely


    Reminds me of Politics.

    Well speaking of Politics, my freind has just sold me a Psion 5, and
    apparently there will be a version of pocketDos emulator comming for it,
    they even show PD running Ensemble.

    I am also trying to locate the Psion 600 notebook PC to put Geoworks on,
    that should deliver 30-60+ hours battery life on today's batteries. So if
    anybody has allready done it, or has complete working kit that you want to
    sell cheap, your welcome to email me.

    I remember people wanting to get Geoworks on the extra long bat life HP
    200LX handheld, did anybody eventually do it?

    Thanks

    Wayne.

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  13. Re: Corrupt Installation Disks

    On Sat, 01 Nov 2003 12:24:29 +1000, Wayne
    wrote:

    >I've had Geoworks on a USB disk key for a while, I had the brilliant idea
    >that maybe I should put it on a flash card in a 3 1/2 floppy disk adapter,
    >that way it could work on most machines? Has anybody tried this allready?


    I have, but was disappointed:

    The floppy adapter is quite slow and it runs on batteries, which will
    last some 20 hours or so.

    The adapters are fine to transfer files from your camera, but not as a
    hd replacement.


    Holger

  14. Re: Corrupt Installation Disks

    If I set it up so that it loaded in Geoworks to ram disk/cache and only
    wrote back saved files would that reduce battery ussage or does the
    battery stay on all the time?

    Thanks

    Wayne.


    On Mon, 3 Nov 2003 11:33:28 GMT, Holger Laux
    wrote:

    > On Sat, 01 Nov 2003 12:24:29 +1000, Wayne
    > wrote:
    >
    >> I've had Geoworks on a USB disk key for a while, I had the brilliant
    >> idea
    >> that maybe I should put it on a flash card in a 3 1/2 floppy disk
    >> adapter,
    >> that way it could work on most machines? Has anybody tried this
    >> allready?

    >
    > I have, but was disappointed:
    >
    > The floppy adapter is quite slow and it runs on batteries, which will
    > last some 20 hours or so.
    >
    > The adapters are fine to transfer files from your camera, but not as a
    > hd replacement.
    >
    >
    > Holger




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  15. Re: Corrupt Installation Disks

    On Mon, 03 Nov 2003 23:29:25 +1000, Wayne
    wrote:

    >If I set it up so that it loaded in Geoworks to ram disk/cache and only
    >wrote back saved files would that reduce battery ussage or does the
    >battery stay on all the time?


    I think it had a physical power switch, but can't remember exactly.
    It's been too long ago.

    You could set up the NDO.BAT batch file to copy files from your RAM
    disk back to the adapter after your session. However, if the machine
    crashes, your work is lost.


    Holger

  16. Re: Corrupt Installation Disks

    Wayne schrieb:
    >
    > On Sun, 02 Nov 2003 00:12:51 +0100, Jens-Michael Gross
    > wrote:
    >
    > > non-switching task switcher driver is standard and you have to manually
    > > select the DR-Dos TaskMax driver (or the NovellDos 7 task manager
    > > driver, which is basically the same)

    >
    > Forgive my ignorance about Geos, but what is the "non-switching task
    > switcher driver", how does it compare to the TaskMax?


    It is more or less a dummy driver, providing the same function entries
    the 'DR-Dos' driver does, but not doing anything (e.g. always reporting
    'there is no additional DOS task' and so on.). It is the default driver
    loaded when you start a fresh install of GEOS. It is there only for
    technical reasons, so programs do not need to check whether there is a
    'real' task manager or not.


    > > And I think, a link to a free DOS on the bradbox pages would piss off
    > > those guys who bundle GEOS now with DR-Dos

    >
    > Yes, but they are selling Ensemble+DOS for as much as XP (+openoffice),
    > and there is perfectly free stuff for non comercial use. There are new
    > PC's for $199.


    Indeed. But well, I doubt the TOC (total Cost of Ownership) is the same.
    An old P120 running GEOS consumes about 30-50 Watt, a PC capable of
    running XP needs 120-250. Makes 1-2 kWh/workday or 250-500kWh/year
    difference. And the P120 is available almost for free, while XP needs a
    much bigger (and more expensive) PC.
    And even in 'real' world, I still use my old 2.0 GEOS while other people
    have updated their OS 3 or more times just still to do the very same.
    Also, Open Office is free. Take Star Office or MS Office into the
    calculation ro compare apples with apples. 6 or more 'updates' of MS
    Office since GEOS 2.0, each one way more expensive than the full version
    of GEOS. Not to mention the huge learning courve for Office. It would
    take another life to teach it my Grandma, while GEOS wasn't a problem.
    (well, she died of old age now, so both systems are out-of-question now)

    > Well speaking of Politics, my freind has just sold me a Psion 5, and
    > apparently there will be a version of pocketDos emulator comming for it,
    > they even show PD running Ensemble.


    There have been several handheld-versions of GEOS. As GEOS only needs an
    8086 emulator with decent speed, it isn't a problem. Just like emulating
    a C64 on a 486 PC in real time

    > I remember people wanting to get Geoworks on the extra long bat life HP
    > 200LX handheld, did anybody eventually do it?


    Don't know. But it runs well on my OmniGo (which actually is a PC with a
    ROM version of GEOS) With many hours of operating time and about 2 weeks
    standby.

    Grossibaer

    --
    If Microsoft would invest only 5 minutes to make Windows boot 1/1000
    second faster,
    we would save 30 working hours worldwide every day.

  17. Re: Corrupt Installation Disks

    On Sat, 01 Nov 2003 03:30:04 GMT, Pat wrote:

    > (1) Geoworks developed Personal Java ONLY for the GEOS-SC Smartphone, and
    > not for GEOS-1, 2, or 3, and their derivatives.
    > (2) Geoworks never managed to stay viable in Smartphones long enough to
    > successfully productize their GEOS-SC OS.
    > (3) GEOS-SC and Personal Java are end-gamed software that hosts no "for
    > sale" products anywhere in the world.
    > (4) Geoworks announced their Personal Java is NOT transportable to the
    > GEOS-1, 2, or 3 versions of their OS family.
    > (4) Geoworks' GEOS-SC can NOT be ported to a desktop platform, because
    > its
    > desigend to host a targeted low-power family of devices.
    > (5) Its not feasible to develop JAVA on GEOS 3 for the desktop, because
    > it
    > would require an enormous amount of capital, and no bank or investment
    > house
    > would ever underwrite such an proposal.


    I still think this is very pestimistic, and if they want to survive, the
    rabbit has to come out of that hat. Now Geos-SC, why not for the next
    generation desktop version? Their Java Personal I mentioned because it
    might have been easier then integrating somebody elses engine (actually I
    don't think it is too difficult or too expensive, but defintely not cheap
    or easy). Geos is supposed to be so portable, so I find it interesting
    that they could not port their Java to the desktop, and Personal is also
    for desktop. It would not surprise me if they did not develope a 386
    version, thought Java was going nowhere, and Ensemble had allready been
    spun off to another company who was unlikely to pay for Persoanl Java and
    Geoworks was unlikely to put the effort in to give it to them. Life is
    full of many exscuses like that on why something is impratical to do.
    (please note: I'm advocating an optional Java install component for the
    majority of people with 386 and above machines, and not for 8086-286 which
    are too limited, this is another reason why they wouldn't have done it
    because Geoworks was aimed at 8086 and above users, but now the market is
    different and making it optional allows it to be done).

    >
    >> The problem is that there are few companies


    [Snip]

    Yes, they are unable to because of their own interests/limitations.

    I do have an easy, practical and almost surefire way for BreadBox to make
    much profit and pick up may more users. I would like to state it
    publically here, but if I did somebody else could easily beat them to it
    with a simular product. If anybody at Breadbox is listening contact me.


    Thanks Pat good arguments


    Wayne.


    --
    No Spam Please.
    Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/

  18. Re: Corrupt Installation Disks

    Sorry that was an old post that got stuck in my outbox and sent.

    --
    No Spam Please.
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  19. Re: Corrupt Installation Disks



    Wayne wrote:

    [snip]

    >
    > I do have an easy, practical and almost surefire way for BreadBox to
    > make much profit and pick up may more users. I would like to state it
    > publically here, but if I did somebody else could easily beat them to it
    > with a simular product. If anybody at Breadbox is listening contact me.
    >
    >


    Hi Wayne,

    We're always listening in the various Geos fora. You can contact Frank
    (Mr. Breadbox) using the Contact, Questions or Comments link at our web
    site. Or you can email either or both of us at johnh or frank @breadbox.com

    John ;-)


  20. Re: Corrupt Installation Disks


    "Wayne" wrote in message
    newsprybah3i7gcp3q2@news.optusnet.com.au...

    > I still think this is very pestimistic, and if they want to survive, the
    > rabbit has to come out of that hat.


    I agree, its pessimistic.

    > Geos is supposed to be so portable, so I find it interesting
    > that they could not port their Java to the desktop, and Personal is also
    > for desktop.


    Essentially, GEOS-SC was a brand new OS from the ground up and designed
    specifically for cellphones and PDA environments. As opposed to GEOS for the
    desktop which was re-engineered (stripped down) to be optimized for the
    Zoomer, then other handhelds. Its much more difficult to go the other way,
    IMO.

    > It would not surprise me if they did not develope a 386 version, thought

    Java was going nowhere, and Ensemble had allready been spun off to another
    company who was unlikely to pay for Persoanl Java and Geoworks was unlikely
    to put the effort in to give it to them.

    I believe Personal Java was an idea recommened by a technical V.P. of Sun,
    who was a member of the Geoworks board of directors. At the time, Sun was
    signing up Personal Java developers and they wanted cellphone coverage.
    Unfortuntely, all that early Personal Java work was for not. Sun eventually
    embraces J2ME, which now represents their platform for Java for Micro
    Devices. So all that old Java code is way behind the curve and it would
    probably have to be rewritten for today's requirements.

    Life is
    > full of many exscuses like that on why something is impratical to do.

    (please note: I'm advocating an optional Java install component for the
    > majority of people with 386 and above machines, and not for 8086-286 which

    are too limited, this is another reason why they wouldn't have done it
    > because Geoworks was aimed at 8086 and above users, but now the market is

    different and making it optional allows it to be done).

    The reason why I believe that will not work is because those hardware
    platforms are too slow for a contemporary Java. If you don't believe me,
    which would make you part of the majority around here, just boogie on over
    to Sun and dig around or flat out ask them what resources are required to
    run today's Java code.

    Better still, run GEOS 1.0 on a 8086 and its not bad. Now run 1.2, and it
    runs just ok, but not as quick as 1.0. Next, the Geos 2.x versions are a bad
    fit for the 8086 and the new GEOS 3 code base is a complete no go. On a 286
    or 386, it would be a little better but not much. What I am saying is that
    Java aside, the different revs of GEOS (1, 1.x, 2, 2.x, 3, 3.x) have become
    more demanding of the PC and are not good fits for previously entry level
    "GEOS Recommended PC Hardware".

    > I do have an easy, practical and almost surefire way for BreadBox to make

    much profit and pick up may more users. I would like to state it publically
    here, but > if I did somebody else could easily beat them to it with a
    simular product. If anybody at Breadbox is listening contact me.

    This I want to hear. Give me a hint.





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