Bob wrote:

> Plain stupid. GEOS needs an OS to actually boot the PC before you can
use
> GEOS. So if the MBR/DBR fails..no GEOS. It's all the same. If u can't
start
> the PC in real-mode, ain't nothin' gonna work. You sure your a PC Tech?
> YIKES! Scary!!!

Hmmmmm.....think that this applies to all OS:es, not only GEOS.............

BR,
Hans

I'm glad you found this Abbot and Costello piece funny. I wrote it. But I'm
very concerned that it's getting passed around without my byline or any
other credit. I'm a professional writer, and I depend on selling my
work--and on name recognition--to stay financially afloat.

The article originally appeared in print in May, 2003 in both ComputerUser
and the Dublin-based Sunday Business Post. You'll find proper, approved
postings at http://www.computeruser.com/articles...1,0501,03.html and
http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/...y124845208.asp.

It's part of a regular column, Gigglebytes, that has appeared in several
publications since I started writing it for Computer Currents in 1986. It
currently appears in the Sunday Business Post and Byte.com. This particular
column, by the way, was the last one to appear in ComputerUser. You'll learn
more about Gigglebytes on my own Web site, www.thelinkinspector.com.

When you post a copyrighted article on a newsgroup (which is arguably an
illegal act in and of itself), you should at least do the courtesy of
including a byline, a copyright notice, and a URL to the original article.
If you post this article again, please do me at least that courtesy.

Thank you,



Lincoln Spector
Journalist, Columnist, Humorist
lincoln@thelinkinspector.com
www.thelinkinspector.com

In newsaM7b.808$Ct4.800@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com,
Lincoln Spector wrote:
| I'm glad you found this Abbot and Costello piece funny. I wrote it.
| But I'm very concerned that it's getting passed around without my
| byline or any other credit. I'm a professional writer, and I depend
| on selling my work--and on name recognition--to stay financially
| afloat.
|
| The article originally appeared in print in May, 2003 in both
| ComputerUser and the Dublin-based Sunday Business Post. You'll find
| proper, approved postings at
| http://www.computeruser.com/articles...1,0501,03.html and
| http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/...y124845208.asp.
|
| It's part of a regular column, Gigglebytes, that has appeared in
| several publications since I started writing it for Computer Currents
| in 1986. It currently appears in the Sunday Business Post and
| Byte.com. This particular column, by the way, was the last one to
| appear in ComputerUser. You'll learn more about Gigglebytes on my own
| Web site, www.thelinkinspector.com.
|
| When you post a copyrighted article on a newsgroup (which is arguably
| an illegal act in and of itself), you should at least do the courtesy
| of including a byline, a copyright notice, and a URL to the original
| article. If you post this article again, please do me at least that
| courtesy.
|
| Thank you,

Linc -

I found it funny, too. You're probably aware that it's often the case
that someone posting a bit of internet humor has had the piece from a
dozen forwarded generations, and for some reason, the byline or author's
info is usually the first thing to go missing. I don't have any idea if
this is actually the case here, but it wouldn't surprise me.

I lurk on the message board secion of www.snopes.com, a pretty
well-known clearinghouse for urban legends and other netlore. There are
often mentions of humor or other articles that have been passed around,
and some of the people there are pretty diligent about tracing the
original author. If youre concerned about any more of your work being
lifted and not credited, you might consider hanging out there yourself
just to make it known that you, as an author, are aware of this kind of
abuse.

Thanks for introducing yourself. We'll try to check out more of your
stuff - if we can can take the time from arguing about whether GEOS is
an OS or a suite, bickering over whether or not it's a valid program for
today's computing needs, and posting a dozen messages an hour calling
each other names.

Tom

> I found it funny, too. You're probably aware that it's often the case
> that someone posting a bit of internet humor has had the piece from a
> dozen forwarded generations, and for some reason, the byline or author's
> info is usually the first thing to go missing. I don't have any idea if
> this is actually the case here, but it wouldn't surprise me.
I assume this is the case.

>
> I lurk on the message board secion of www.snopes.com, a pretty
> well-known clearinghouse for urban legends and other netlore. There are
> often mentions of humor or other articles that have been passed around,
> and some of the people there are pretty diligent about tracing the
> original author. If youre concerned about any more of your work being
> lifted and not credited, you might consider hanging out there yourself
> just to make it known that you, as an author, are aware of this kind of
> abuse.
Thanks for the tip.

Lincoln

"Hans Lindgren" wrote in message
news:NewsReader.1.0.200391031121321408@news1.telia .com...
>
> Bob wrote:
>
> > Plain stupid. GEOS needs an OS to actually boot the PC before you can
> use
> > GEOS. So if the MBR/DBR fails..no GEOS. It's all the same. If u can't
> start
> > the PC in real-mode, ain't nothin' gonna work. You sure your a PC Tech?
> > YIKES! Scary!!!
>
> Hmmmmm.....think that this applies to all OS:es, not only
GEOS.............
>
> BR,
> Hans

EXACTLY!

Bob wrote:

> "Jens-Michael Gross" wrote in message
> news:3F5F3942.349C1E94@grossibaer.de...
>
>>Bob schrieb:
>>
>>>You know, (I HOPE), that all OS's for the IBM/INTEL platform must start
>
> in
>
>>>real-mode. IO.SYS, MSDOS.SYS and HIMEM.SYS are simply real-mode loaders.
>
> But
>
>>>you know this....I HOPE!
>>
>>Well, they don't really need to.
>
>
>>Grossibaer
>
>
> Yes they do. They must. It is part of the IBM/Intel's modis of operenda.
>
>
Rubbish! http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/H/himem_sys.html
OS/2 doesn't. The Linux kernal doesn't. x86 *.Nixs don't, BeOs doesn't.
QNX doesn't, NT based Windows don't.

NTLDR u are saying doesn't load in real-mode?

"Bob" wrote in message
news:JMN7b.311828$Oz4.101288@rwcrnsc54...
> "Hans Lindgren" wrote in message
> news:NewsReader.1.0.200391031121321408@news1.telia .com...
> >
> > Bob wrote:
> >
> > > Plain stupid. GEOS needs an OS to actually boot the PC before you can
> > use
> > > GEOS. So if the MBR/DBR fails..no GEOS. It's all the same. If u can't
> > start
> > > the PC in real-mode, ain't nothin' gonna work. You sure your a PC
Tech?
> > > YIKES! Scary!!!
> >
> > Hmmmmm.....think that this applies to all OS:es, not only
> GEOS.............
> >
> > BR,
> > Hans
>
> EXACTLY!
>
>

Bob schrieb:

> Silly. A rose by any other name. HIMEM.SYS is simply a 16-bit DOS-Based BIOS
> that creates the HMA, and "manages" XMS. Of COURSE DOS can run without
> HIMEM.SYS as DOS only address 1,048,576 bytes of memory. Now what happens
> without HIMEM.SYS, (running on a DOS system), and your DOS application of
> choice needs 4 megs RAM to run? You never cease to amaze me Jens. Your
> circular logic is illogical.

Well, your logic is way more strange.

In your opinion, GEOS is just a DOS program. And GEOS has definitely no
problem using 16MB RAM on a system without HIMEM.SYS or any other memory
manager (like EMM386 or such). And there have been many more DOS
programs able to do the same.
No matter how you turn it, you're wrong with either one or all of your
statements.

Grossibaer

--
Take a class. Read a book. Don't expect computers to be simple, because
they are not.

Bob schrieb:
>
> NTLDR u are saying doesn't load in real-mode?
>
> "Bob" wrote in message
> news:JMN7b.311828$Oz4.101288@rwcrnsc54...
> > "Hans Lindgren" wrote in message
> > news:NewsReader.1.0.200391031121321408@news1.telia .com...
> > >
> > > Bob wrote:
> > >
> > > > Plain stupid. GEOS needs an OS to actually boot the PC before you can
> > > use
> > > > GEOS. So if the MBR/DBR fails..no GEOS. It's all the same. If u can't
> > > start
> > > > the PC in real-mode, ain't nothin' gonna work. You sure your a PC
> Tech?
> > > > YIKES! Scary!!!
> > >
> > > Hmmmmm.....think that this applies to all OS:es, not only
> > GEOS.............
> > >
> > > BR,
> > > Hans
> >
> > EXACTLY!
> >
> >


Looking at the quoted thread above, I cannot do other than laugh about
Bob questioning himself (and returning to TOP posting again)

Grossibaer

--
Take a class. Read a book. Don't expect computers to be simple, because
they are not.

Bob schrieb:
>
> "Jens-Michael Gross" wrote in message
> news:3F5F37C4.9B324384@grossibaer.de...
> >
> > But you're wroong: geos don't need a OS to boot, it needs a file zsystem
> > to boot.
>
> > Grossibaer
>
> OK. I have a PC w/out an OS. I press the power-on button and the System ROM
> BIOS does its' thing. My drive is partitioned and has a file system on it.
> At the end of the ROM BIOS execution my monitor displays a message similar
> to; "Invaild System Disk." Hmmm. I have GEOS installed. You said I don't
> need an OS to load and run GEOS. How come it don't work?? What am I missing?
> Oh wait...I know. AN OS! (Was your Computer Science degree via
> correspondence courses?)

Well, if you have an original IBM PC, then you'll get a basic
interpreter if there is no other OS on the HD or disk.
And for interpreting a filesystem, you don't need an OS. All you need is
a little it of code that identifies the position of a file and load the
data. And a little bit more code to actually write files.
Reading data from a partition (actually ReiserFS in my case) is a job
GRUBS does every bootup. Without any OS loaded.
And how does DR-Dos load IBMBIO.SYS, the OS kernel I/O part, or
IBMDOS.SYS, the DOS part of DR-Dos, without having the DOS already
loaded? Imagine, it can locate nd load these files even if you move them
on the partition. Without rewriting the boot code.
Strange. Must be a magical trick, like pulling yourself out of the mud
on your own hairs.

I said, GEOS just needs a file system driver. DOS provides this in a
very vconvenient way, so GEOS was designed to use it. It could be
anything else providing similar access.

One could even rewrite the GEOS loader to provide the file system access
on its own and boot directly from MBR. But why should one do this? Who
would be so stupid to remove compatibility with other OS just to meet
your (also stupid) criteria for something being an OS or not?
Well, maybe you, definitely not I.

Grossibaer

--
Take a class. Read a book. Don't expect computers to be simple, because
they are not.

So then Jens, NTLDR loads in protected-mode?

"Jens-Michael Gross" wrote in message
news:3F608E31.A63E3AE0@grossibaer.de...
> Bob schrieb:
> >
> > NTLDR u are saying doesn't load in real-mode?
> >
> > "Bob" wrote in message
> > news:JMN7b.311828$Oz4.101288@rwcrnsc54...
> > > "Hans Lindgren" wrote in message
> > > news:NewsReader.1.0.200391031121321408@news1.telia .com...
> > > >
> > > > Bob wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Plain stupid. GEOS needs an OS to actually boot the PC before you
can
> > > > use
> > > > > GEOS. So if the MBR/DBR fails..no GEOS. It's all the same. If u
can't
> > > > start
> > > > > the PC in real-mode, ain't nothin' gonna work. You sure your a PC
> > Tech?
> > > > > YIKES! Scary!!!
> > > >
> > > > Hmmmmm.....think that this applies to all OS:es, not only
> > > GEOS.............
> > > >
> > > > BR,
> > > > Hans
> > >
> > > EXACTLY!
> > >
> > >
>
>
> Looking at the quoted thread above, I cannot do other than laugh about
> Bob questioning himself (and returning to TOP posting again)
>
> Grossibaer
>
> --
> Take a class. Read a book. Don't expect computers to be simple, because
> they are not.

"Jens-Michael Gross" wrote in message
news:3F608BDF.CB982371@grossibaer.de...
>
> In your opinion, GEOS is just a DOS program.

> Grossibaer

EXACTLY! Finally you have learned!

However you guys define it, you DO have to have some type of operating
system first, before installing and running
either Geos or Windows 3.1 (these were operating systems that had to
run on top of another operating system).
I think you could even have FreeDOS installed first and either of
these would be functional.

- Dana



Jens-Michael Gross wrote in message news:<3F608DAF.9C47A52B@grossibaer.de>...
> Bob schrieb:
> >
> > "Jens-Michael Gross" wrote in message
> > news:3F5F37C4.9B324384@grossibaer.de...
> > >
> > > But you're wroong: geos don't need a OS to boot, it needs a file zsystem
> > > to boot.
>
> > > Grossibaer
> >
> > OK. I have a PC w/out an OS. I press the power-on button and the System ROM
> > BIOS does its' thing. My drive is partitioned and has a file system on it.
> > At the end of the ROM BIOS execution my monitor displays a message similar
> > to; "Invaild System Disk." Hmmm. I have GEOS installed. You said I don't
> > need an OS to load and run GEOS. How come it don't work??
What am I missing?
> > Oh wait...I know. AN OS! (Was your Computer Science degree
via
> > correspondence courses?)
>
> Well, if you have an original IBM PC, then you'll get a basic
> interpreter if there is no other OS on the HD or disk.
> And for interpreting a filesystem, you don't need an OS. All you
need is
> a little it of code that identifies the position of a file and
load the
> data. And a little bit more code to actually write files.
> Reading data from a partition (actually ReiserFS in my case) is a
job
> GRUBS does every bootup. Without any OS loaded.
> And how does DR-Dos load IBMBIO.SYS, the OS kernel I/O part, or
> IBMDOS.SYS, the DOS part of DR-Dos, without having the DOS
already
> loaded? Imagine, it can locate nd load these files even if you
move them
> on the partition. Without rewriting the boot code.
> Strange. Must be a magical trick, like pulling yourself out of
the mud
> on your own hairs.
>
> I said, GEOS just needs a file system driver. DOS provides this
in a
> very vconvenient way, so GEOS was designed to use it. It could be
> anything else providing similar access.
>
> One could even rewrite the GEOS loader to provide the file system
access
> on its own and boot directly from MBR. But why should one do
this? Who
> would be so stupid to remove compatibility with other OS just to
meet
> your (also stupid) criteria for something being an OS or not?
> Well, maybe you, definitely not I.
>
> Grossibaer

"Dana Sindell" wrote in message
news:538f8989.0309111614.6322863b@posting.google.c om...
> However you guys define it, you DO have to have some type of operating
> system first, before installing and running
> either Geos or Windows 3.1 (these were operating systems that had to
> run on top of another operating system).
> - Dana

Honestly? Once those GUI's are "running" I would easily state that they are
OS's at that point. My only contention is getting from point A, (MBR/DBR),
to point B, (loading an OS and then "loading" either GEOS or Win 3.x - ME).

I have always said that GEOS should have it's own DBR loaders. They would
simply do the same BIOS as IO.SYS, MSDOS.SYS, (place name here), files do.
GEOSIO.SYS, GEOS.SYS, GEOCMD.COM

Bob schrieb:
>
> "Jens-Michael Gross" wrote in message
> news:3F608BDF.CB982371@grossibaer.de...
> >
> > In your opinion, GEOS is just a DOS program.
>
> > Grossibaer
>
> EXACTLY! Finally you have learned!

That's the explanation: you cannot read! Maybe if you could, you'd
understand more of what we write.

I wrote: 'IN YOUR OPINION'. Well, okay, I learned that this is your
opinion. But I didn't 'finally' learn it, I know this for years.

And as usual, you ignored evere evidence of you being wrong. What a
wonderfiul workd this must be: everyone but you is a fool. Well, I've
heard of this world. It is full of rooms with rubber walls and people
with white clothes around.

Grossibaer

--
Take a class. Read a book. Don't expect computers to be simple, because
they are not.

Bob wrote-

"I have always said that GEOS should have it's own DBR loaders. They
would
simply do the same BIOS as IO.SYS, MSDOS.SYS, (place name here), files
do.
GEOSIO.SYS, GEOS.SYS, GEOCMD.COM "

That would be a good idea if the programmers of GEOS would add thos
DBR loaders. Isn't GEOS still the property of
Geoworks or did Breadbox purchase all rites? I haven't followed this
newsgroup since New Deal's demise. I know
Breadbox is releasing a version of GEOS, but I do not know if Geoworks
sold all rites. It would be great if Breadbox
could reprogram GEOS. They could have those DBR loaders added and,
maybe, could revamp GEOS as a 32 bit operating system. Is that
possible?


- Dana






"Bob" wrote in message news:...
> "Dana Sindell" wrote in message
> news:538f8989.0309111614.6322863b@posting.google.c om...
> > However you guys define it, you DO have to have some type of operating
> > system first, before installing and running
> > either Geos or Windows 3.1 (these were operating systems that had to
> > run on top of another operating system).
> > - Dana
>
> Honestly? Once those GUI's are "running" I would easily state that they are
> OS's at that point. My only contention is getting from point A, (MBR/DBR),
> to point B, (loading an OS and then "loading" either GEOS or Win 3.x - ME).
>
> I have always said that GEOS should have it's own DBR loaders. They would
> simply do the same BIOS as IO.SYS, MSDOS.SYS, (place name here), files do.
> GEOSIO.SYS, GEOS.SYS, GEOCMD.COM