Re: known bug in sun's ensemble installer - GEOS

This is a discussion on Re: known bug in sun's ensemble installer - GEOS ; I hope your computer consists of more than a power supply? Hans Pat wrote: > Not a good analogy. A modern switching power supply does not draw current in > the same way the older designs do. > > > ...

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Thread: Re: known bug in sun's ensemble installer

  1. Re: known bug in sun's ensemble installer

    I hope your computer consists of more than a power supply?

    Hans

    Pat wrote:
    > Not a good analogy. A modern switching power supply does not draw current

    in
    > the same way the older designs do.
    >
    >
    > "hyubso" wrote in message
    > news:3F3D3E89.904@prodigy.net...
    > > are yuou saying a 60 watt bulb uses more electricity than a 300 watt

    bulb?
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Pat wrote:
    > > > Are you saying that old PCs ae not power pigs? ROTFL!
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > "hyubso" wrote in message
    > > > news:3F3B4DF6.5040307@prodigy.net...
    > > >
    > > >>pat.. it is very simple to see that modern pcs use more energy than
    > > >>older pcs.. most modern pcs have **two** large fans to exhaust

    the
    > > >>greater amount of heat generated inside the pc case.. .. one forth

    e
    > > >>case and one inside the power supply.. this is so all that heat
    > > >>thrown off buy all componenets not inside the power supply case

    does
    > > >>not flow out *thru* the power supply, causing it to overheat/wear

    out
    > > >>the power supply fan and thus blow a power supply component and who
    > > >>knows what else.
    > > >>
    > > >>
    > > >>AFAIK, the original ibm pc had a 63 watt power supply, and the XT

    with
    > > >>the hard drive had a power supply not much over 100 watts.. much
    > > >>lower than what today's pcs require...
    > > >>
    > > >>
    > > >>C'mon pat, when you are getting ready for a hot date, and you want

    to
    > > >>dry your hair faster, would you choose the 63 watt hair dryer, or

    the
    > > >>300 watt hair dryer?
    > > >>
    > > >>does a 60 watt lightbulb use more electricity than a 300 watt lightbulb?
    > > >>
    > > >>
    > > >>
    > > >>
    > > >>
    > > >>
    > > >>
    > > >>
    > > >>Pat wrote:
    > > >>
    > > >>>Come on, Hans/ The power supplies on modern PC is so much more advanced
    > > >>
    > > > in
    > > >
    > > >>>the way they operate. Also, the older motherboards had greater use

    of
    > > >>>components and compared to now, where dozens of logic chips are on

    a
    > > >>
    > > > couple
    > > >
    > > >>>of ICs. Also, memory is far les power hungry compared to those old

    > pigs.
    > > >>>
    > > >>>
    > > >>>"Hans Lindgren" wrote in message
    > > >>>news:NewsReader.1.0.2003813316102522960@news1.teli a.com...
    > > >>>
    > > >>>
    > > >>>>Then they would approximately consume the same amount of power.

    In new
    > > >>>
    > > > PCs
    > > >
    > > >>>>the CPU voltage is lower than in older ones, but OTOH the CPUs is
    > > >>>
    > > > clocked
    > > >
    > > >>>>with a much higher frequency, which will generate more heat, and

    a
    > > >>>
    > > > higher
    > > >
    > > >>>>surface temperature will risen the power consumption. Simple physics.

    > I
    > > >>>
    > > >>>have
    > > >>>
    > > >>>
    > > >>>>also measured the power consumption in an old P75 and compared that

    to
    > a
    > > >>>>P41.8GHz Celeron. The power consumption is about the same.
    > > >>>>
    > > >>>>Well, most of the computers today is standardized. If you take an
    > > >>>
    > > > ordinary
    > > >
    > > >>>>desktop computer, the power supply have been 200 watts ones for

    ages,
    > > >>>
    > > >>>where
    > > >>>
    > > >>>
    > > >>>>approximately 60 watts is used under normal conditions.
    > > >>>>
    > > >>>>Hans
    > > >>>>
    > > >>>>Pat wrote:
    > > >>>>
    > > >>>>
    > > >>>>>Hello Hans,
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>>>A generalizations, you make. Unlike Apple Macs, where you have

    a
    > single
    > > >>>>>manufacturer, the PC is a ubiquitous and amorphous beast. Many
    > > >>>>
    > > > different
    > > >
    > > >>>>>implementations exist. So why not just compare apples with apples

    and
    > > >>>>
    > > >>>>say
    > > >>>>
    > > >>>>
    > > >>>>>the old and new PCs are on and off at the same time.
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>>>"Hans Lindgren" wrote in message
    > > >>>>>news:NewsReader.1.0.200381221923508752@news1.telia .com...
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>>>>Pat wrote:
    > > >>>>>>
    > > >>>>>>
    > > >>>>>>>"Ray Kopczynski" wrote in message
    > > >>>>>>>news:20030810001647.23687.00001814@mb-m27.aol.com...
    > > >>>>>>>
    > > >>>>>>>
    > > >>>>>>>><< The application meets the needs of users, who increasingly
    > > >>>>>>>
    > > >>>demand
    > > >>>
    > > >>>
    > > >>>>>>it.
    > > >>>>>>
    > > >>>>>>
    > > >>>>>>>>BINGO! The magic bullet! If/when that that lightning bolt
    > > >>>>>>>
    > > >>>strikes
    > > >>>
    > > >>>
    > > >>>>>>me
    > > >>>>>>
    > > >>>>>>
    > > >>>>>>>("meets
    > > >>>>>>>
    > > >>>>>>>
    > > >>>>>>>>the needs of users..."), then I too will buy into that process.
    > > >>>>>>>
    > > >>>>>>>Do you use Windows apps, that a native mode GEOS app can not
    > > >>>>>>
    > > >>>accomplish
    > > >>>
    > > >>>
    > > >>>>>>the
    > > >>>>>>
    > > >>>>>>
    > > >>>>>>>same goal, or where the GEOS app does not exist?
    > > >>>>>>>
    > > >>>>>>>
    > > >>>>>>>
    > > >>>>>>>><< I would venture to say that most GEOS users already have

    high
    > > >>>>>>>
    > > >>>>end
    > > >>>>
    > > >>>>
    > > >>>>>>PCs
    > > >>>>>>
    > > >>>>>>
    > > >>>>>>>that run Windows XP. >>
    > > >>>>>>>
    > > >>>>>>>>I disagree, but we'll never know...
    > > >>>>>>>
    > > >>>>>>>Old computers are more wasteful of electricity use than new ones.
    > > >>>>>>
    > > >>>>>>It all depends on how you use them. This is so often stated that

    it
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>>have
    > > >>>>
    > > >>>>
    > > >>>>>>become a truth, but it all comes down to how they are used. An

    old
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>>>computer
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>>>>that is powered on when used and shutdown when not in use is less
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>power
    > > >>>
    > > >>>
    > > >>>>>consuming
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>>>>than a new computer that is always on with all the power management
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>>>features
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>>>>on. In fact, a poorly configured power management is at high risk

    > more
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>>>power
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>>>>consuming than an old computer that is always on. And newer computer
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>>uses
    > > >>>>
    > > >>>>
    > > >>>>>>components that produces more heat that needs to be cooled compared
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>>to old
    > > >>>>
    > > >>>>
    > > >>>>>>ones. Heat that needs t be cooled by electrical fans. And the

    hotter
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>>the
    > > >>>>
    > > >>>>
    > > >>>>>>computer gets inside the more the power consumption rises. One

    might
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>>save
    > > >>>>
    > > >>>>
    > > >>>>>>some watts in better components, but I the difference in small
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>compared
    > > >>>
    > > >>>
    > > >>>>to
    > > >>>>
    > > >>>>
    > > >>>>>>what have happenend in the monitor area. The sigificant difference
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>>is CRT
    > > >>>>
    > > >>>>
    > > >>>>>>versus LCD, where LCD is less power consuming than CRT:s. Plasma
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>screens
    > > >>>
    > > >>>
    > > >>>>>>are also less power-consuming than CRT:s, but that is "marginally"
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>>>compared
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>>>>to LCD:s.
    > > >>>>>>
    > > >>>>>>
    > > >>>>>>
    > > >>>>>>>Also, its
    > > >>>>>>>plain impossible to find ISA bus parts any more. Yes, you can
    > > >>>>>>
    > > >>>definitely
    > > >>>
    > > >>>
    > > >>>>>>>find anything you want if you like hard enough. I guess that

    goes
    > > >>>>>>
    > > >>>>for
    > > >>>>
    > > >>>>
    > > >>>>>>buying
    > > >>>>>>
    > > >>>>>>
    > > >>>>>>>buggy whips. But its just not convenient to maintain an old piece
    > > >>>>>>
    > > >>>>of
    > > >>>>
    > > >>>>
    > > >>>>>iron.
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>>>>Yep, I agree with you, but who says that one needs to hunt ISA

    > cards?
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>>If
    > > >>>>
    > > >>>>
    > > >>>>>>they still exist, there is a slot to put them into, and they are

    > doing
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>>>fine,
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>>>>there is no need to change. There is an fine old motto: If it's

    not
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>>>broken,
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>>>>don't fix it!
    > > >>>>>>
    > > >>>>>>
    > > >>>>>>
    > > >>>>>>>Hell, these things are not living breathing pets or human beings,
    > > >>>>>>
    > > >>>>they
    > > >>>>
    > > >>>>
    > > >>>>>>are
    > > >>>>>>
    > > >>>>>>
    > > >>>>>>>old computers that wear out and eventually become door stops.

    Lok,
    > > >>>>>>
    > > >>>>I am
    > > >>>>
    > > >>>>
    > > >>>>>>>talking about the vast majority. Everytime I make a statement

    you
    > > >>>>>>
    > > >>>>tend
    > > >>>>
    > > >>>>
    > > >>>>>>to
    > > >>>>>>
    > > >>>>>>
    > > >>>>>>>personalize it. In your case, the general rule gets broken.
    > > >>>>>>
    > > >>>>>>People tends to get nostalgic in ISA, as it was a technology that

    > was
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>>>created
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>>>>by engineers, hard to understand for newbies, but when understood,
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>once
    > > >>>
    > > >>>
    > > >>>>>and
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>>>>for all, it was working very well. PCI, with plug and play, on

    the
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>>other
    > > >>>>
    > > >>>>
    > > >>>>>>hand, is a standard that have matured only during the recent year

    > and
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>>a
    > > >>>>
    > > >>>>
    > > >>>>>half.
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>>>>Nowadays it works like a solid rock, but I still have had examples

    > of
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>>>conflicts
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>>>>only a year and a half ago that could make anybody puke. I think

    > that
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>>>these
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>>>>things stick in peoples minds......
    > > >>>>>>
    > > >>>>>>The most memorable events in ISA/PCI hardware conflicts was when

    a
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>>>collegue
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>>>>of mine managed to get all PCI hardware to hook up on IRQ11,

    > including
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>>the
    > > >>>>
    > > >>>>
    > > >>>>>>USB. You can imagine the SCSI adapter, graphics adapter, network
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>adapter
    > > >>>
    > > >>>
    > > >>>>>>and the USB hooked up to IRQ11. Now, that computer worked strangely,
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>>or
    > > >>>>
    > > >>>>
    > > >>>>>did
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>>>>not work at all, and I still remember how I laughed. We fixed

    the
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>problem
    > > >>>
    > > >>>
    > > >>>>>>by removing the three cards, and putting them back one by one.

    I
    > have
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>>>never
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>>>>seen anything like that since. This was some years ago, in the

    early
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>>days
    > > >>>>
    > > >>>>
    > > >>>>>>of USB.
    > > >>>>>>
    > > >>>>>>BR,
    > > >>>>>>Hans
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>
    > > >
    > > >

    > >

    >
    >
    >


  2. Re: known bug in sun's ensemble installer

    I just added a Pioneer A06 CD/DVD burner and its serving me well. All my
    other component upgrades take advantage of deals. For example, Micro Center
    is now having a sale on 256MB of PC133 memory for $14.95, after rebate. I
    also got a 160 GB Secial Edition Western Digital drive for $99, after
    rebate. I needed the extra memory and storage because Windows XP is such a
    hog on resources. Ok, I thought I'd throw that last sentence in because its
    what you were thinking. In fact, its because of the Vegas 4 video editing
    application and the 150GB AVI file I need to render. Before I get stabbed in
    the back for even suggesting these exesses of memory and disk upgrade should
    be for everyone, its NOT! I am only referring to myself. If I could use less
    resources and do the video edits using GEOS, I would get GEOS. I go for what
    ever tool that makes the best sense to me.





    "Hans Lindgren" wrote in message
    news:NewsReader.1.0.200381669104922976@news1.telia .com...
    > I hope your computer consists of more than a power supply?
    >
    > Hans
    >
    > Pat wrote:
    > > Not a good analogy. A modern switching power supply does not draw

    current
    > in
    > > the same way the older designs do.
    > >
    > >
    > > "hyubso" wrote in message
    > > news:3F3D3E89.904@prodigy.net...
    > > > are yuou saying a 60 watt bulb uses more electricity than a 300 watt

    > bulb?
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > Pat wrote:
    > > > > Are you saying that old PCs ae not power pigs? ROTFL!
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > "hyubso" wrote in message
    > > > > news:3F3B4DF6.5040307@prodigy.net...
    > > > >
    > > > >>pat.. it is very simple to see that modern pcs use more energy than
    > > > >>older pcs.. most modern pcs have **two** large fans to exhaust

    > the
    > > > >>greater amount of heat generated inside the pc case.. .. one forth

    > e
    > > > >>case and one inside the power supply.. this is so all that heat
    > > > >>thrown off buy all componenets not inside the power supply case

    > does
    > > > >>not flow out *thru* the power supply, causing it to overheat/wear

    > out
    > > > >>the power supply fan and thus blow a power supply component and who
    > > > >>knows what else.
    > > > >>
    > > > >>
    > > > >>AFAIK, the original ibm pc had a 63 watt power supply, and the XT

    > with
    > > > >>the hard drive had a power supply not much over 100 watts.. much
    > > > >>lower than what today's pcs require...
    > > > >>
    > > > >>
    > > > >>C'mon pat, when you are getting ready for a hot date, and you want

    > to
    > > > >>dry your hair faster, would you choose the 63 watt hair dryer, or

    > the
    > > > >>300 watt hair dryer?
    > > > >>
    > > > >>does a 60 watt lightbulb use more electricity than a 300 watt

    lightbulb?
    > > > >>
    > > > >>
    > > > >>
    > > > >>
    > > > >>
    > > > >>
    > > > >>
    > > > >>
    > > > >>Pat wrote:
    > > > >>
    > > > >>>Come on, Hans/ The power supplies on modern PC is so much more

    advanced
    > > > >>
    > > > > in
    > > > >
    > > > >>>the way they operate. Also, the older motherboards had greater use

    > of
    > > > >>>components and compared to now, where dozens of logic chips are on

    > a
    > > > >>
    > > > > couple
    > > > >
    > > > >>>of ICs. Also, memory is far les power hungry compared to those old

    > > pigs.
    > > > >>>
    > > > >>>
    > > > >>>"Hans Lindgren" wrote in message
    > > > >>>news:NewsReader.1.0.2003813316102522960@news1.teli a.com...
    > > > >>>
    > > > >>>
    > > > >>>>Then they would approximately consume the same amount of power.

    > In new
    > > > >>>
    > > > > PCs
    > > > >
    > > > >>>>the CPU voltage is lower than in older ones, but OTOH the CPUs is
    > > > >>>
    > > > > clocked
    > > > >
    > > > >>>>with a much higher frequency, which will generate more heat, and

    > a
    > > > >>>
    > > > > higher
    > > > >
    > > > >>>>surface temperature will risen the power consumption. Simple

    physics.
    > > I
    > > > >>>
    > > > >>>have
    > > > >>>
    > > > >>>
    > > > >>>>also measured the power consumption in an old P75 and compared

    that
    > to
    > > a
    > > > >>>>P41.8GHz Celeron. The power consumption is about the same.
    > > > >>>>
    > > > >>>>Well, most of the computers today is standardized. If you take an
    > > > >>>
    > > > > ordinary
    > > > >
    > > > >>>>desktop computer, the power supply have been 200 watts ones for

    > ages,
    > > > >>>
    > > > >>>where
    > > > >>>
    > > > >>>
    > > > >>>>approximately 60 watts is used under normal conditions.
    > > > >>>>
    > > > >>>>Hans
    > > > >>>>
    > > > >>>>Pat wrote:
    > > > >>>>
    > > > >>>>
    > > > >>>>>Hello Hans,
    > > > >>>>>
    > > > >>>>>A generalizations, you make. Unlike Apple Macs, where you have

    > a
    > > single
    > > > >>>>>manufacturer, the PC is a ubiquitous and amorphous beast. Many
    > > > >>>>
    > > > > different
    > > > >
    > > > >>>>>implementations exist. So why not just compare apples with apples

    > and
    > > > >>>>
    > > > >>>>say
    > > > >>>>
    > > > >>>>
    > > > >>>>>the old and new PCs are on and off at the same time.
    > > > >>>>>
    > > > >>>>>
    > > > >>>>>"Hans Lindgren" wrote in message
    > > > >>>>>news:NewsReader.1.0.200381221923508752@news1.telia .com...
    > > > >>>>>
    > > > >>>>>
    > > > >>>>>>Pat wrote:
    > > > >>>>>>
    > > > >>>>>>
    > > > >>>>>>>"Ray Kopczynski" wrote in message
    > > > >>>>>>>news:20030810001647.23687.00001814@mb-m27.aol.com...
    > > > >>>>>>>
    > > > >>>>>>>
    > > > >>>>>>>><< The application meets the needs of users, who increasingly
    > > > >>>>>>>
    > > > >>>demand
    > > > >>>
    > > > >>>
    > > > >>>>>>it.
    > > > >>>>>>
    > > > >>>>>>
    > > > >>>>>>>>BINGO! The magic bullet! If/when that that lightning bolt
    > > > >>>>>>>
    > > > >>>strikes
    > > > >>>
    > > > >>>
    > > > >>>>>>me
    > > > >>>>>>
    > > > >>>>>>
    > > > >>>>>>>("meets
    > > > >>>>>>>
    > > > >>>>>>>
    > > > >>>>>>>>the needs of users..."), then I too will buy into that

    process.
    > > > >>>>>>>
    > > > >>>>>>>Do you use Windows apps, that a native mode GEOS app can not
    > > > >>>>>>
    > > > >>>accomplish
    > > > >>>
    > > > >>>
    > > > >>>>>>the
    > > > >>>>>>
    > > > >>>>>>
    > > > >>>>>>>same goal, or where the GEOS app does not exist?
    > > > >>>>>>>
    > > > >>>>>>>
    > > > >>>>>>>
    > > > >>>>>>>><< I would venture to say that most GEOS users already have

    > high
    > > > >>>>>>>
    > > > >>>>end
    > > > >>>>
    > > > >>>>
    > > > >>>>>>PCs
    > > > >>>>>>
    > > > >>>>>>
    > > > >>>>>>>that run Windows XP. >>
    > > > >>>>>>>
    > > > >>>>>>>>I disagree, but we'll never know...
    > > > >>>>>>>
    > > > >>>>>>>Old computers are more wasteful of electricity use than new

    ones.
    > > > >>>>>>
    > > > >>>>>>It all depends on how you use them. This is so often stated that

    > it
    > > > >>>>>
    > > > >>>>have
    > > > >>>>
    > > > >>>>
    > > > >>>>>>become a truth, but it all comes down to how they are used. An

    > old
    > > > >>>>>
    > > > >>>>>computer
    > > > >>>>>
    > > > >>>>>
    > > > >>>>>>that is powered on when used and shutdown when not in use is

    less
    > > > >>>>>
    > > > >>>power
    > > > >>>
    > > > >>>
    > > > >>>>>consuming
    > > > >>>>>
    > > > >>>>>
    > > > >>>>>>than a new computer that is always on with all the power

    management
    > > > >>>>>
    > > > >>>>>features
    > > > >>>>>
    > > > >>>>>
    > > > >>>>>>on. In fact, a poorly configured power management is at high

    risk
    > > more
    > > > >>>>>
    > > > >>>>>power
    > > > >>>>>
    > > > >>>>>
    > > > >>>>>>consuming than an old computer that is always on. And newer

    computer
    > > > >>>>>
    > > > >>>>uses
    > > > >>>>
    > > > >>>>
    > > > >>>>>>components that produces more heat that needs to be cooled

    compared
    > > > >>>>>
    > > > >>>>to old
    > > > >>>>
    > > > >>>>
    > > > >>>>>>ones. Heat that needs t be cooled by electrical fans. And the

    > hotter
    > > > >>>>>
    > > > >>>>the
    > > > >>>>
    > > > >>>>
    > > > >>>>>>computer gets inside the more the power consumption rises. One

    > might
    > > > >>>>>
    > > > >>>>save
    > > > >>>>
    > > > >>>>
    > > > >>>>>>some watts in better components, but I the difference in small
    > > > >>>>>
    > > > >>>compared
    > > > >>>
    > > > >>>
    > > > >>>>to
    > > > >>>>
    > > > >>>>
    > > > >>>>>>what have happenend in the monitor area. The sigificant

    difference
    > > > >>>>>
    > > > >>>>is CRT
    > > > >>>>
    > > > >>>>
    > > > >>>>>>versus LCD, where LCD is less power consuming than CRT:s. Plasma
    > > > >>>>>
    > > > >>>screens
    > > > >>>
    > > > >>>
    > > > >>>>>>are also less power-consuming than CRT:s, but that is

    "marginally"
    > > > >>>>>
    > > > >>>>>compared
    > > > >>>>>
    > > > >>>>>
    > > > >>>>>>to LCD:s.
    > > > >>>>>>
    > > > >>>>>>
    > > > >>>>>>
    > > > >>>>>>>Also, its
    > > > >>>>>>>plain impossible to find ISA bus parts any more. Yes, you can
    > > > >>>>>>
    > > > >>>definitely
    > > > >>>
    > > > >>>
    > > > >>>>>>>find anything you want if you like hard enough. I guess that

    > goes
    > > > >>>>>>
    > > > >>>>for
    > > > >>>>
    > > > >>>>
    > > > >>>>>>buying
    > > > >>>>>>
    > > > >>>>>>
    > > > >>>>>>>buggy whips. But its just not convenient to maintain an old

    piece
    > > > >>>>>>
    > > > >>>>of
    > > > >>>>
    > > > >>>>
    > > > >>>>>iron.
    > > > >>>>>
    > > > >>>>>
    > > > >>>>>>Yep, I agree with you, but who says that one needs to hunt ISA

    > > cards?
    > > > >>>>>
    > > > >>>>If
    > > > >>>>
    > > > >>>>
    > > > >>>>>>they still exist, there is a slot to put them into, and they are

    > > doing
    > > > >>>>>
    > > > >>>>>fine,
    > > > >>>>>
    > > > >>>>>
    > > > >>>>>>there is no need to change. There is an fine old motto: If it's

    > not
    > > > >>>>>
    > > > >>>>>broken,
    > > > >>>>>
    > > > >>>>>
    > > > >>>>>>don't fix it!
    > > > >>>>>>
    > > > >>>>>>
    > > > >>>>>>
    > > > >>>>>>>Hell, these things are not living breathing pets or human

    beings,
    > > > >>>>>>
    > > > >>>>they
    > > > >>>>
    > > > >>>>
    > > > >>>>>>are
    > > > >>>>>>
    > > > >>>>>>
    > > > >>>>>>>old computers that wear out and eventually become door stops.

    > Lok,
    > > > >>>>>>
    > > > >>>>I am
    > > > >>>>
    > > > >>>>
    > > > >>>>>>>talking about the vast majority. Everytime I make a statement

    > you
    > > > >>>>>>
    > > > >>>>tend
    > > > >>>>
    > > > >>>>
    > > > >>>>>>to
    > > > >>>>>>
    > > > >>>>>>
    > > > >>>>>>>personalize it. In your case, the general rule gets broken.
    > > > >>>>>>
    > > > >>>>>>People tends to get nostalgic in ISA, as it was a technology

    that
    > > was
    > > > >>>>>
    > > > >>>>>created
    > > > >>>>>
    > > > >>>>>
    > > > >>>>>>by engineers, hard to understand for newbies, but when

    understood,
    > > > >>>>>
    > > > >>>once
    > > > >>>
    > > > >>>
    > > > >>>>>and
    > > > >>>>>
    > > > >>>>>
    > > > >>>>>>for all, it was working very well. PCI, with plug and play, on

    > the
    > > > >>>>>
    > > > >>>>other
    > > > >>>>
    > > > >>>>
    > > > >>>>>>hand, is a standard that have matured only during the recent

    year
    > > and
    > > > >>>>>
    > > > >>>>a
    > > > >>>>
    > > > >>>>
    > > > >>>>>half.
    > > > >>>>>
    > > > >>>>>
    > > > >>>>>>Nowadays it works like a solid rock, but I still have had

    examples
    > > of
    > > > >>>>>
    > > > >>>>>conflicts
    > > > >>>>>
    > > > >>>>>
    > > > >>>>>>only a year and a half ago that could make anybody puke. I think

    > > that
    > > > >>>>>
    > > > >>>>>these
    > > > >>>>>
    > > > >>>>>
    > > > >>>>>>things stick in peoples minds......
    > > > >>>>>>
    > > > >>>>>>The most memorable events in ISA/PCI hardware conflicts was when

    > a
    > > > >>>>>
    > > > >>>>>collegue
    > > > >>>>>
    > > > >>>>>
    > > > >>>>>>of mine managed to get all PCI hardware to hook up on IRQ11,

    > > including
    > > > >>>>>
    > > > >>>>the
    > > > >>>>
    > > > >>>>
    > > > >>>>>>USB. You can imagine the SCSI adapter, graphics adapter, network
    > > > >>>>>
    > > > >>>adapter
    > > > >>>
    > > > >>>
    > > > >>>>>>and the USB hooked up to IRQ11. Now, that computer worked

    strangely,
    > > > >>>>>
    > > > >>>>or
    > > > >>>>
    > > > >>>>
    > > > >>>>>did
    > > > >>>>>
    > > > >>>>>
    > > > >>>>>>not work at all, and I still remember how I laughed. We fixed

    > the
    > > > >>>>>
    > > > >>>problem
    > > > >>>
    > > > >>>
    > > > >>>>>>by removing the three cards, and putting them back one by one.

    > I
    > > have
    > > > >>>>>
    > > > >>>>>never
    > > > >>>>>
    > > > >>>>>
    > > > >>>>>>seen anything like that since. This was some years ago, in the

    > early
    > > > >>>>>
    > > > >>>>days
    > > > >>>>
    > > > >>>>
    > > > >>>>>>of USB.
    > > > >>>>>>
    > > > >>>>>>BR,
    > > > >>>>>>Hans
    > > > >>>>>
    > > > >>>>>
    > > > >>>>>
    > > > >>>
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > >

    > >
    > >
    > >




  3. Re: known bug in sun's ensemble installer

    << I go for what ever tool that makes the best sense to me. >>

    Gadzooks! I've been hammering that for as long as I've been able to access
    this site! Why is that hard for some folks to understand?!

    Ray



  4. Re: known bug in sun's ensemble installer

    Just what I was thinking, Ray, when I read what Pat said!

    Eve


    Ray Kopczynski wrote:
    > << I go for what ever tool that makes the best sense to me. >>
    >
    > Gadzooks! I've been hammering that for as long as I've been able to access
    > this site! Why is that hard for some folks to understand?!
    >
    > Ray
    >
    >
    >


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