"Ray Kopczynski" wrote in message
news:20030810184814.19750.00000413@mb-m23.aol.com...


> LOL! Actually, I see only you & Bob calling folks IN a Geos ng
"extremists"
> for wishing to use and extend an OS they like & enjoy...

Ray, I'm just warning you about the perils of bucking the thought police.

> That part I agree with -- as far as you've stated it. On your Windows/MAC
> machines, you do need a "teacher" there to mentor them on the process. I
argue
> that if you simply sit a raw-newbie down to a PC that is open and has a
screen
> full of icons on it -- they will be lost.

Depends on the person and I have seen quite a few self starters who just
need a video or intro book to get started. None of this is rocket science to
the majority. It takes practice and a tenacity to learn. The problem is that
our society has lowered the expectation level of what a person must learn to
be educated and ready for the work force. We're turing out illiterates and
some are illiterate in multiple languages.

> Absolutely! The GlobalPC has a "single" key they can press that will walk
them
> through the entire initial learning process -- including how to use a
mouse --
> no need for any other interaction from an adult. Guess what it's named:
> "Learn" -- and it is available for reinforcement at any time. It's elegant
and
> bullet-proof IMO.

That can be done on any Windows PC with any number of tutorials. Geeeez, its
just a program, its not some firmware. LOL!

<< The problem is that our society has lowered the expectation level of what a
person must learn to be educated and ready for the work force. We're turing out
illiterates and some are illiterate in multiple languages. >>

Gads! Don't get me started on that topic -- we'd need a completely different
NG for sure! :-)

<< That can be done on any Windows PC with any number of tutorials. >>

Ahhh! True enough -- but that reinforces my specific comment about having a
single key and no other interaction necessary. Your example requires more
knowledge -- they have to know how to fire up the tutorial -- and if they don't
know how to run the PC in the first place -- then what? (Someone has to show
them...)

Ray

"Ray Kopczynski" wrote in message
news:20030812210515.18517.00001228@mb-m18.aol.com...


> Ahhh! True enough -- but that reinforces my specific comment about having
a
> single key and no other interaction necessary. Your example requires more
> knowledge -- they have to know how to fire up the tutorial -- and if they
don't
> know how to run the PC in the first place -- then what? (Someone has to
show
> them...)

I'm assuming that both GEOS and Windows requires the same exact ability of:

(1) Pointing to a icon.

(2) Clicking on the icon (Windows can be preconfigured for dummies to only
requie one click)

That would start off a tutorial.

No? Yes?

>I'm assuming that both GEOS and Windows requires the same exact ability of:
>
>(1) Pointing to a icon.
>
>(2) Clicking on the icon (Windows can be preconfigured for dummies to only
>requie one click)
>
>That would start off a tutorial.
>
>No? Yes?
>

And if the person does not know how to use a mouse to even do a "one click"?

That's all I'm trying to indicate. The single press of the "Learn" key on the
keyboard started the tutorial on the GlobalPC -- to even teach the person how
to use a mouse...with no other interaction necesssary. Well -- I stand
corrected -- it does require the ability to read instructions on a screen. :-)

Ray

"Ray Kopczynski" wrote in message
news:20030813203232.02452.00001340@mb-m21.aol.com...

> And if the person does not know how to use a mouse to even do a "one
click"?

Everything n life is learned. That includes using toilet paper, brushing
your teeth, tieing shoe laces, learning to read and write. Somewhere in
there is clicking a mouse button. Why not ask Seymour Papert that questions?
That's his job, to analyze learning and behavior. Ideally, a computer should
have an open voice recognition interface that involves speech and no
pointing devices of any kind. No cursor, et al.

> That's all I'm trying to indicate. The single press of the "Learn" key on
the
> keyboard started the tutorial on the GlobalPC -- to even teach the person
how
> to use a mouse...with no other interaction necesssary. Well -- I stand
> corrected -- it does require the ability to read instructions on a screen.
:-)

That assumes that a person knows how to press a LEARN key. Which is just a
program preloaded on the Global PC and a specific keycode, when depressed,
starts the tutorial. Was that part of the hardware. No. Was it part of GEOS.
No. It was added. Likewise, anyone can do the same thing for Windows or the
Mac. The learn key guarantees nothing. Millions of people all over the world
can use Windows using HELP, Tutorials, and all kinds of multimedia
interfaces.

put those people in front of a global pc and they won't need a video or
intro book to help them get started.



Pat wrote:
>
>
> Depends on the person and I have seen quite a few self starters who just
> need a video or intro book to get started.

windows requires a sveral day, repeated several times over to no avail
tutorial so peole can understand where to save their files, adn how to
find them after the files are lost on the hard drive,a dn how ot
navigate teh hard drive when they get lost trying to find the lost files.

no such problem on the global pc...




Pat wrote:

>
>
> I'm assuming that both GEOS and Windows requires the same exact ability of:
>
> (1) Pointing to a icon.
>
> (2) Clicking on the icon (Windows can be preconfigured for dummies to only
> requie one click)
>
> That would start off a tutorial.
>
> No? Yes?
>
>

but some things require more learning than others..



manual transmission vs. automatic transmission

windows directory structure vs. geos directory structure

geos directory structure vs. global pc directory structure

baked from scratch cake vs. betty crocker cake mix

gasoline engine repair vs. diesel engine repair

cooking at home vs. eating out

paying with credit vs. paying with cash


get it??











Pat wrote:
>
>
> Everything n life is learned. That includes using toilet paper, brushing
> your teeth, tieing shoe laces, learning to read and write. Somewhere in
> there is clicking a mouse button.

> windows directory structure vs. geos directory structure

Hyusbo,

I would take NTFS robustness any day over FAT(Fill in the blank), which is
vulnerable and of an old design. All GEOS does is stick with a 20 year old
design. It never changed, and it never will change. I'm guess there are 83
people in the world who still use frequently.

How come a 5 year old can launch programs, navigate, and need no help,
except to read text?


"hyubso" wrote in message
news:3F3B4876.2060105@prodigy.net...
> windows requires a sveral day, repeated several times over to no avail
> tutorial so peole can understand where to save their files, adn how to
> find them after the files are lost on the hard drive,a dn how ot
> navigate teh hard drive when they get lost trying to find the lost files.
>
> no such problem on the global pc...
>
>
>
>
> Pat wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > I'm assuming that both GEOS and Windows requires the same exact ability
of:
> >
> > (1) Pointing to a icon.
> >
> > (2) Clicking on the icon (Windows can be preconfigured for dummies to
only
> > requie one click)
> >
> > That would start off a tutorial.
> >
> > No? Yes?
> >
> >
>

Lies!

"hyubso" wrote in message
news:3F3B47F0.5040201@prodigy.net...
> put those people in front of a global pc and they won't need a video or
> intro book to help them get started.
>
>
>
> Pat wrote:
> >
> >
> > Depends on the person and I have seen quite a few self starters who just
> > need a video or intro book to get started.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Pat wrote:
> > windows directory structure vs. geos directory structure
>
> Hyusbo,
>
> I would take NTFS robustness any day over FAT(Fill in the blank), which
is
> vulnerable and of an old design. All GEOS does is stick with a 20 year
old
> design. It never changed, and it never will change. I'm guess there are
83
> people in the world who still use frequently.
>
>
>
Make that 84.

Eve

i'm concerned for the 20-50 year olds who can't...




Pat wrote:
> How come a 5 year old can launch programs, navigate, and need no help,
> except to read text?
>
>
> "hyubso" wrote in message
> news:3F3B4876.2060105@prodigy.net...
>
>>windows requires a sveral day, repeated several times over to no avail
>>tutorial so peole can understand where to save their files, adn how to
>>find them after the files are lost on the hard drive,a dn how ot
>>navigate teh hard drive when they get lost trying to find the lost files.
>>
>>no such problem on the global pc...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Pat wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>>I'm assuming that both GEOS and Windows requires the same exact ability
>>
> of:
>
>>>(1) Pointing to a icon.
>>>
>>>(2) Clicking on the icon (Windows can be preconfigured for dummies to
>>
> only
>
>>>requie one click)
>>>
>>>That would start off a tutorial.
>>>
>>>No? Yes?
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

can't goes make use of the NTFS???


keep NTFS and replace the the windows graphical environment with GEOS




Pat wrote:
>>windows directory structure vs. geos directory structure
>
>
> Hyusbo,
>
> I would take NTFS robustness any day over FAT(Fill in the blank), which is
> vulnerable and of an old design. All GEOS does is stick with a 20 year old
> design. It never changed, and it never will change. I'm guess there are 83
> people in the world who still use frequently.
>
>

I already included you in the 83.


wrote in message
news:NewsReader.1.0.2003815513305826144@news.tekno logy.net...
>
> Pat wrote:
> > > windows directory structure vs. geos directory structure
> >
> > Hyusbo,
> >
> > I would take NTFS robustness any day over FAT(Fill in the blank), which
> is
> > vulnerable and of an old design. All GEOS does is stick with a 20 year
> old
> > design. It never changed, and it never will change. I'm guess there are
> 83
> > people in the world who still use frequently.
> >
> >
> >
> Make that 84.
>
> Eve

The main GEOS GUI is close to motif and the other one is supposed to be a
clone of Windows, sort of. The current Windows GUI is fine. Anyone who has a
problem with it is just jealous of how good it is or clueless.

"hyubso" wrote in message
news:3F3D7231.2070900@prodigy.net...
> can't goes make use of the NTFS???
>
>
> keep NTFS and replace the the windows graphical environment with GEOS
>
>
>
>
> Pat wrote:
> >>windows directory structure vs. geos directory structure
> >
> >
> > Hyusbo,
> >
> > I would take NTFS robustness any day over FAT(Fill in the blank), which
is
> > vulnerable and of an old design. All GEOS does is stick with a 20 year
old
> > design. It never changed, and it never will change. I'm guess there are
83
> > people in the world who still use frequently.
> >
> >
>

"hyubso" wrote in message
news:3F3D7231.2070900@prodigy.net...
> can't goes make use of the NTFS???
>
>
> keep NTFS and replace the the windows graphical environment with GEOS

How?