Re: known bug in sun's ensemble installer - GEOS

This is a discussion on Re: known bug in sun's ensemble installer - GEOS ; these very boards unless you admit you want to be MS Free. >> LOL! Actually, I see only you & Bob calling folks IN a Geos ng "extremists" for wishing to use and extend an OS they like & enjoy... ...

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Thread: Re: known bug in sun's ensemble installer

  1. Re: known bug in sun's ensemble installer

    << Are you aware that GEOS extremists are drawing straws about jumping you in
    these very boards unless you admit you want to be MS Free. >>

    LOL! Actually, I see only you & Bob calling folks IN a Geos ng "extremists"
    for wishing to use and extend an OS they like & enjoy...

    << ...don't you know that is the end goal of every goose stepping, card
    carrying member of the GEOS elite. >>

    Hehe -- I haven't seen/heard anyone call me to the woodshed yet and chastise me
    for falling away from the holy mantra... OTOH, two folks regularly DO
    excoriate folks who do continue to use/like Geos. I won't name names as their
    personality come through loud and clear in the ng. Ooops -- I stand corrected.
    It's not "clear" by any stretch of the imaginatiion, but it is LOUD at times.


    << If learning how to hold a mouse and click the left button is a problem for
    them on Windows, its the same problem on GEOS or a MAC. >>

    That part I agree with -- as far as you've stated it. On your Windows/MAC
    machines, you do need a "teacher" there to mentor them on the process. I argue
    that if you simply sit a raw-newbie down to a PC that is open and has a screen
    full of icons on it -- they will be lost.

    << Does BBX or any other GEOS application designer offer a simiular CD that can
    be loaded and operated by a 3 year year old. Hmmmmmm? >>

    Absolutely! The GlobalPC has a "single" key they can press that will walk them
    through the entire initial learning process -- including how to use a mouse --
    no need for any other interaction from an adult. Guess what it's named:
    "Learn" -- and it is available for reinforcement at any time. It's elegant and
    bullet-proof IMO.

    << Besides, all of the Windows games that are aimed at preschoolers have been
    tested and work with, uhhh, real KIDS! >>

    Of course they have! And of course those "KIDS" they use as testers already
    know the basics of using a PC...

    << I continue to harp on the fact that the average branded 286 cost well over
    $1000 when GEOS was first released. Isn't it amazing how things change so
    quickly. >>

    And I don't see anyone disagreeing with you about that statement. If someone
    cannot afford a low-end "new" machine in one of the stores you've previously
    mentioned, are computer illiterate, etc., and even though more powerful and
    radically less expensive machines in "bang for the buck" are readily available;
    $1000 may as well be $10,000 to these folks.

    Ray



  2. Re: known bug in sun's ensemble installer


    "Ray Kopczynski" wrote in message
    news:20030810184814.19750.00000413@mb-m23.aol.com...


    > LOL! Actually, I see only you & Bob calling folks IN a Geos ng

    "extremists"
    > for wishing to use and extend an OS they like & enjoy...


    Ray, I'm just warning you about the perils of bucking the thought police.

    > That part I agree with -- as far as you've stated it. On your Windows/MAC
    > machines, you do need a "teacher" there to mentor them on the process. I

    argue
    > that if you simply sit a raw-newbie down to a PC that is open and has a

    screen
    > full of icons on it -- they will be lost.


    Depends on the person and I have seen quite a few self starters who just
    need a video or intro book to get started. None of this is rocket science to
    the majority. It takes practice and a tenacity to learn. The problem is that
    our society has lowered the expectation level of what a person must learn to
    be educated and ready for the work force. We're turing out illiterates and
    some are illiterate in multiple languages.

    > Absolutely! The GlobalPC has a "single" key they can press that will walk

    them
    > through the entire initial learning process -- including how to use a

    mouse --
    > no need for any other interaction from an adult. Guess what it's named:
    > "Learn" -- and it is available for reinforcement at any time. It's elegant

    and
    > bullet-proof IMO.


    That can be done on any Windows PC with any number of tutorials. Geeeez, its
    just a program, its not some firmware. LOL!





  3. Re: known bug in sun's ensemble installer

    << The problem is that our society has lowered the expectation level of what a
    person must learn to be educated and ready for the work force. We're turing out
    illiterates and some are illiterate in multiple languages. >>

    Gads! Don't get me started on that topic -- we'd need a completely different
    NG for sure! :-)

    << That can be done on any Windows PC with any number of tutorials. >>

    Ahhh! True enough -- but that reinforces my specific comment about having a
    single key and no other interaction necessary. Your example requires more
    knowledge -- they have to know how to fire up the tutorial -- and if they don't
    know how to run the PC in the first place -- then what? (Someone has to show
    them...)

    Ray

  4. Re: known bug in sun's ensemble installer


    "Ray Kopczynski" wrote in message
    news:20030812210515.18517.00001228@mb-m18.aol.com...


    > Ahhh! True enough -- but that reinforces my specific comment about having

    a
    > single key and no other interaction necessary. Your example requires more
    > knowledge -- they have to know how to fire up the tutorial -- and if they

    don't
    > know how to run the PC in the first place -- then what? (Someone has to

    show
    > them...)


    I'm assuming that both GEOS and Windows requires the same exact ability of:

    (1) Pointing to a icon.

    (2) Clicking on the icon (Windows can be preconfigured for dummies to only
    requie one click)

    That would start off a tutorial.

    No? Yes?



  5. Re: known bug in sun's ensemble installer

    >I'm assuming that both GEOS and Windows requires the same exact ability of:
    >
    >(1) Pointing to a icon.
    >
    >(2) Clicking on the icon (Windows can be preconfigured for dummies to only
    >requie one click)
    >
    >That would start off a tutorial.
    >
    >No? Yes?
    >


    And if the person does not know how to use a mouse to even do a "one click"?

    That's all I'm trying to indicate. The single press of the "Learn" key on the
    keyboard started the tutorial on the GlobalPC -- to even teach the person how
    to use a mouse...with no other interaction necesssary. Well -- I stand
    corrected -- it does require the ability to read instructions on a screen. :-)

    Ray

  6. Re: known bug in sun's ensemble installer


    "Ray Kopczynski" wrote in message
    news:20030813203232.02452.00001340@mb-m21.aol.com...

    > And if the person does not know how to use a mouse to even do a "one

    click"?

    Everything n life is learned. That includes using toilet paper, brushing
    your teeth, tieing shoe laces, learning to read and write. Somewhere in
    there is clicking a mouse button. Why not ask Seymour Papert that questions?
    That's his job, to analyze learning and behavior. Ideally, a computer should
    have an open voice recognition interface that involves speech and no
    pointing devices of any kind. No cursor, et al.

    > That's all I'm trying to indicate. The single press of the "Learn" key on

    the
    > keyboard started the tutorial on the GlobalPC -- to even teach the person

    how
    > to use a mouse...with no other interaction necesssary. Well -- I stand
    > corrected -- it does require the ability to read instructions on a screen.

    :-)

    That assumes that a person knows how to press a LEARN key. Which is just a
    program preloaded on the Global PC and a specific keycode, when depressed,
    starts the tutorial. Was that part of the hardware. No. Was it part of GEOS.
    No. It was added. Likewise, anyone can do the same thing for Windows or the
    Mac. The learn key guarantees nothing. Millions of people all over the world
    can use Windows using HELP, Tutorials, and all kinds of multimedia
    interfaces.



  7. Re: known bug in sun's ensemble installer

    put those people in front of a global pc and they won't need a video or
    intro book to help them get started.



    Pat wrote:
    >
    >
    > Depends on the person and I have seen quite a few self starters who just
    > need a video or intro book to get started.









  8. Re: known bug in sun's ensemble installer

    windows requires a sveral day, repeated several times over to no avail
    tutorial so peole can understand where to save their files, adn how to
    find them after the files are lost on the hard drive,a dn how ot
    navigate teh hard drive when they get lost trying to find the lost files.

    no such problem on the global pc...




    Pat wrote:

    >
    >
    > I'm assuming that both GEOS and Windows requires the same exact ability of:
    >
    > (1) Pointing to a icon.
    >
    > (2) Clicking on the icon (Windows can be preconfigured for dummies to only
    > requie one click)
    >
    > That would start off a tutorial.
    >
    > No? Yes?
    >
    >



  9. Re: known bug in sun's ensemble installer

    but some things require more learning than others..



    manual transmission vs. automatic transmission

    windows directory structure vs. geos directory structure

    geos directory structure vs. global pc directory structure

    baked from scratch cake vs. betty crocker cake mix

    gasoline engine repair vs. diesel engine repair

    cooking at home vs. eating out

    paying with credit vs. paying with cash


    get it??











    Pat wrote:
    >
    >
    > Everything n life is learned. That includes using toilet paper, brushing
    > your teeth, tieing shoe laces, learning to read and write. Somewhere in
    > there is clicking a mouse button.



  10. Re: known bug in sun's ensemble installer

    > windows directory structure vs. geos directory structure

    Hyusbo,

    I would take NTFS robustness any day over FAT(Fill in the blank), which is
    vulnerable and of an old design. All GEOS does is stick with a 20 year old
    design. It never changed, and it never will change. I'm guess there are 83
    people in the world who still use frequently.



  11. Re: known bug in sun's ensemble installer

    How come a 5 year old can launch programs, navigate, and need no help,
    except to read text?


    "hyubso" wrote in message
    news:3F3B4876.2060105@prodigy.net...
    > windows requires a sveral day, repeated several times over to no avail
    > tutorial so peole can understand where to save their files, adn how to
    > find them after the files are lost on the hard drive,a dn how ot
    > navigate teh hard drive when they get lost trying to find the lost files.
    >
    > no such problem on the global pc...
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Pat wrote:
    >
    > >
    > >
    > > I'm assuming that both GEOS and Windows requires the same exact ability

    of:
    > >
    > > (1) Pointing to a icon.
    > >
    > > (2) Clicking on the icon (Windows can be preconfigured for dummies to

    only
    > > requie one click)
    > >
    > > That would start off a tutorial.
    > >
    > > No? Yes?
    > >
    > >

    >




  12. Re: known bug in sun's ensemble installer

    Lies!

    "hyubso" wrote in message
    news:3F3B47F0.5040201@prodigy.net...
    > put those people in front of a global pc and they won't need a video or
    > intro book to help them get started.
    >
    >
    >
    > Pat wrote:
    > >
    > >
    > > Depends on the person and I have seen quite a few self starters who just
    > > need a video or intro book to get started.

    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >




  13. Re: known bug in sun's ensemble installer


    Pat wrote:
    > > windows directory structure vs. geos directory structure

    >
    > Hyusbo,
    >
    > I would take NTFS robustness any day over FAT(Fill in the blank), which

    is
    > vulnerable and of an old design. All GEOS does is stick with a 20 year

    old
    > design. It never changed, and it never will change. I'm guess there are

    83
    > people in the world who still use frequently.
    >
    >
    >

    Make that 84.

    Eve

  14. Re: known bug in sun's ensemble installer

    i'm concerned for the 20-50 year olds who can't...




    Pat wrote:
    > How come a 5 year old can launch programs, navigate, and need no help,
    > except to read text?
    >
    >
    > "hyubso" wrote in message
    > news:3F3B4876.2060105@prodigy.net...
    >
    >>windows requires a sveral day, repeated several times over to no avail
    >>tutorial so peole can understand where to save their files, adn how to
    >>find them after the files are lost on the hard drive,a dn how ot
    >>navigate teh hard drive when they get lost trying to find the lost files.
    >>
    >>no such problem on the global pc...
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>Pat wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>
    >>>I'm assuming that both GEOS and Windows requires the same exact ability

    >>

    > of:
    >
    >>>(1) Pointing to a icon.
    >>>
    >>>(2) Clicking on the icon (Windows can be preconfigured for dummies to

    >>

    > only
    >
    >>>requie one click)
    >>>
    >>>That would start off a tutorial.
    >>>
    >>>No? Yes?
    >>>
    >>>

    >>

    >
    >



  15. Re: known bug in sun's ensemble installer

    can't goes make use of the NTFS???


    keep NTFS and replace the the windows graphical environment with GEOS




    Pat wrote:
    >>windows directory structure vs. geos directory structure

    >
    >
    > Hyusbo,
    >
    > I would take NTFS robustness any day over FAT(Fill in the blank), which is
    > vulnerable and of an old design. All GEOS does is stick with a 20 year old
    > design. It never changed, and it never will change. I'm guess there are 83
    > people in the world who still use frequently.
    >
    >



  16. Re: known bug in sun's ensemble installer

    I already included you in the 83.


    wrote in message
    news:NewsReader.1.0.2003815513305826144@news.tekno logy.net...
    >
    > Pat wrote:
    > > > windows directory structure vs. geos directory structure

    > >
    > > Hyusbo,
    > >
    > > I would take NTFS robustness any day over FAT(Fill in the blank), which

    > is
    > > vulnerable and of an old design. All GEOS does is stick with a 20 year

    > old
    > > design. It never changed, and it never will change. I'm guess there are

    > 83
    > > people in the world who still use frequently.
    > >
    > >
    > >

    > Make that 84.
    >
    > Eve




  17. Re: known bug in sun's ensemble installer

    The main GEOS GUI is close to motif and the other one is supposed to be a
    clone of Windows, sort of. The current Windows GUI is fine. Anyone who has a
    problem with it is just jealous of how good it is or clueless.

    "hyubso" wrote in message
    news:3F3D7231.2070900@prodigy.net...
    > can't goes make use of the NTFS???
    >
    >
    > keep NTFS and replace the the windows graphical environment with GEOS
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Pat wrote:
    > >>windows directory structure vs. geos directory structure

    > >
    > >
    > > Hyusbo,
    > >
    > > I would take NTFS robustness any day over FAT(Fill in the blank), which

    is
    > > vulnerable and of an old design. All GEOS does is stick with a 20 year

    old
    > > design. It never changed, and it never will change. I'm guess there are

    83
    > > people in the world who still use frequently.
    > >
    > >

    >




  18. Re: known bug in sun's ensemble installer

    "hyubso" wrote in message
    news:3F3D7231.2070900@prodigy.net...
    > can't goes make use of the NTFS???
    >
    >
    > keep NTFS and replace the the windows graphical environment with GEOS


    How?



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