Re: Moral victory... - GEOS

This is a discussion on Re: Moral victory... - GEOS ; Ray, This seething with hate over Microsoft, and using every opportunity to make a point about how rotten they are, has gone on for years and when I've referenced this behavior in the past, its been met with replies of ...

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  1. Re: Moral victory...

    Ray,

    This seething with hate over Microsoft, and using every opportunity to make
    a point about how rotten they are, has gone on for years and when I've
    referenced this behavior in the past, its been met with replies of denial.
    Get over it:

    (1) Microsoft WON the Desktop war legitimately, and every other OS lost.
    GEOS was in the GUI_OS running for two years but was unable to belly up to
    the bar with a significant update to their first release. It was too little
    too late, after that.

    (2) Microsoft's aggressive business practices, which is minor compared to
    what IBM used to do, was met with a Justice Department that went way over
    the top. Larry Ellison, of Oracle, would grit his teeth about Bill Gates
    having more money than he did. Yet, Gates and his wife have given away
    Billions of dollars to three charities they both founded. Two are in the US
    and one only targets distributing milk for children in impoverished
    countries. Larry, a FOB, had Clinton's personal phone number and gave
    liberally to his campaign fund raisers, perhaps as Larry's charity of
    choice. Gates did not play ball in giving contributions to politicians,
    including Clinton. This was a no-no with Big Bill. Ellison knew how to play
    the game. The vast majority of Americans polled were shocked at how
    over_the_top this was. In contrast, around the height of the Clinton
    Administration's Witch Trial against Microsoft, the Justice Department
    (really Bill and Hillary) rubber stamped the enormous merger between Exxon
    and Mobil even though Clinton pretended to be upset over the deal. Yeah,
    right! Yet, not very much of a peep from the Justice Department. Gee, I
    wonder why? This deal makes Microsoft look like a piece of lint in your
    navel, by comparison.

    (3) It is so hypocritical to use Microsoft software, when you hate them as
    much as you and others do who dominate this newsgroup, that you have held
    hostage for years with your Hate MS rhetoric. So mean spirited and
    hypocritical!!! As I've said in the past, do not use any MS software at home
    if you hate them that much. Buy a Mac, use GEOS, use DOS, get OS/2, or go
    Linux. There isn't a thing you do on a computer that can't be duplicated by
    one of those platforms. Microsoft has NO MONOPOLY in the sense of limiting
    your choice in getting FREE or FOR COST software. Spare me that old and
    tired "Its bundled on PCs so what can I do" BS. You can buy commercial PCs
    with Linux, or get an OEM PC with no OS or any OS of your choosing. Frankly,
    I'm so sick of the false pretense about not wanting to use Microsoft
    software that permeates this ng.

    (4) Microsoft made a huge number of Multi-millionaires and successful
    businesses, as a result of Windows, that far exceeded their own revenue and
    profitability. It almost seems as though Clinton's efforts to undo Microsoft
    created a negative vibe in the computer industry that eventually brought
    down the dot-com bubble, prematurely. I think it would have happened anyway,
    but its kind of sweet justice it happened while Bill was still in office.
    Anyone who has seen the documentary film STARTUP.COM in the theater or on
    DVD will know what I'm referring to. I picture that era of insanity as being
    a soufflé that FELL when Clinton slammed the door in Microsoft's face.



    "Ray Kopczynski" wrote in message
    news:20030720141417.23904.00000200@mb-m27.aol.com...
    > That's all this is, and it's "chump change" to them. At least some of it

    will
    > go to schools.
    >
    > Just a continuing sad story that "might" -- read that as MONOPOLY (and
    > exquisite early-business accumen) are still pervasive in their ongoing
    > practices.
    >
    > http://news.com.com/2100-1012_3-1027598.html?tag=fd_top
    >




  2. Re: Moral victory...

    well, what does "legitimately" mean??

    would you say fairly???


    would you say honoestly??






    Pat wrote:
    >
    >
    > (1) Microsoft WON the Desktop war legitimately,



  3. Re: Moral victory...

    << This seething with hate over Microsoft... >>

    ?? LOL -- Just posting facts as you purport to do.

    << (1) Microsoft WON the Desktop war legitimately, and every other OS lost. >>

    Aye -- they "WON" -- but the lawsuits/settlements PROVE that it was NOT
    "legitimately."

    << GEOS was in the GUI_OS running for two years but was unable to belly up to
    the bar... >>

    No argument there, but we CAN (and do) argue about the causes.

    << (3) It is so hypocritical (for you) to use Microsoft software... >>

    So I'm a hypocrite -- what's your point? (And I have said many times that I
    have NO choice in the matter at work.) That in no way takes away from the
    central point of my argument -- that MS is/has been a MONOPOLY that has been
    taken to court and lost over & over & over again.

    << (4) Microsoft made a huge number of Multi-millionaires and successful
    businesses, as a result of Windows... >>

    Turn of the century "robber barons" did same in multitude of endeavors -- sure
    doesn't make it right!

    You keep bringing up other red-herrings, but never effectively address the
    illegal business practices that MS has been taken to court (and lost) over.
    While it may be true they "won," the GUI process in no way do I (or many
    others) have to "get over it"!

    Ray

  4. Re: Moral victory...

    Legitimately as it refers to the games that ALL computer company play in the
    computer business, at large. They all do the same stuff. Aggressive to the
    max. Sometimes they cross a line. Microsoft did but got the equivalent of a
    lifetime in jail for what was a "running through a stop light" infraction.
    All around them, other companies were running through the same light but
    never pulled over by the Justice department cops. Just look at Oracle's
    history.


    "hyubso" wrote in message
    news:3F1B6FEB.7020906@prodigy.net...
    > well, what does "legitimately" mean??
    >
    > would you say fairly???
    >
    >
    > would you say honoestly??
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Pat wrote:
    > >
    > >
    > > (1) Microsoft WON the Desktop war legitimately,

    >




  5. Re: Moral victory...


    "Ray Kopczynski" wrote in message
    news:20030721092858.21545.00000411@mb-m07.aol.com...
    > << This seething with hate over Microsoft... >>


    > Aye -- they "WON" -- but the lawsuits/settlements PROVE that it was NOT
    > "legitimately."


    Read my resonse to Hyubso.

    > So I'm a hypocrite -- what's your point? (And I have said many times that

    I
    > have NO choice in the matter at work.) That in no way takes away from the
    > central point of my argument -- that MS is/has been a MONOPOLY that has

    been
    > taken to court and lost over & over & over again.


    My point is to gwt over it. The task at hand is to put the heat on BBX, not
    Microsoft. You guys have been giving the GEOS "keepers of the flame" a FREE
    PASS, GET OUT OF JAIL monopoly card for years.

    > Turn of the century "robber barons" did same in multitude of endeavors --

    sure
    > doesn't make it right!


    Bill Gates' Microsoft and Windows is one of prime software companies and
    Operating Syetems that you can elect to use, or not use. If Microsoft ceased
    developing Windows, for example, there would be a shock in the world but not
    one computer would stop running. people would just keep running their
    Windows or move to other OS or computer platforms.

    Compared to Gates, the luminaries of big industry, of the past, had clear
    monopolies in their fields of interest. Railroads, Steel, Communications,
    Rubber, et al. They had REAL MONOPOLIES and people had zero or pathetically
    little choice.

    My advise:

    Please keep your eye on the ball rather than being distracted by what is
    happening off the field. This is a GEOS newsgroup and BBX is the "keeper of
    the GEOS flame", yet I have seen only half hearted and abortive attempts at
    putting the onus on them for where GEOS situated, on this day of our Lord.




  6. Re: Moral victory...

    In news:TjISa.64743$3o3.4297018@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net,
    Pat wrote:

    Pat, thanks for presenting this in a succinct, straightforward way.

    | This seething with hate over Microsoft, and using every opportunity
    | to make a point about how rotten they are, has gone on for years and
    | when I've referenced this behavior in the past, its been met with
    | replies of denial. Get over it:

    It's pretty easy to get on the "I Hate MS" bandwagon, for any number of
    reasons, real or imagined. There are dozens of settings that I wish were
    easier to find and/or configure. There's hundreds or thousands of pages
    of tech docs to go through in an effort to find what's causing a problem
    sometimes. And there's the way that they seem to steamroll over their
    competition, making it impractical to market products that directly
    compete with their flagship Office and OS software.

    That being said, users still have a choice, and as you correctly stated,
    we're in a much better position as users than the old manufactures and
    mills were against the *real* monopolies of the steel and oil barons a
    century (or less) ago.

    | (1) Microsoft WON the Desktop war legitimately, and every other OS
    | lost. GEOS was in the GUI_OS running for two years but was unable to
    | belly up to the bar with a significant update to their first release.
    | It was too little too late, after that.

    I'd say "lost" might be too strong a word because the filed changes all
    the time. But when you consider market share, MS comes out
    overwhelmingly ahead.

    Also, consider that the way that they asked, and later, demanded the
    kinds of bundling agreements that they had with PC makers was not a bad
    business plan. IBM blew several opportunities with OS2, Apple wouldn't
    license it's stuff, and what was left? CPM? GEM Desktop? Amiga? Wasn't
    it Boss Tweed who said "I seen my opportunities, and I took'em."? They
    did nothing illegal. They recognized that MS had a good name and a wide
    range of software, and marketed the hell out of it. Until Win95 came
    out, PC writers still mentioned the potential for other OS's, including
    GeoWorks (John Dvorak in PC Mag).


    | (2) Microsoft's aggressive business practices, which is minor
    | compared to what IBM used to do, was met with a Justice Department
    | that went way over the top. Larry Ellison, of Oracle, would grit his
    | teeth about Bill Gates having more money than he did. Yet, Gates and
    | his wife have given away Billions of dollars to three charities they
    | both founded. Two are in the US and one only targets distributing
    | milk for children in impoverished countries. Larry, a FOB, had
    | Clinton's personal phone number and gave liberally to his campaign
    | fund raisers, perhaps as Larry's charity of choice. Gates did not
    | play ball in giving contributions to politicians, including Clinton.
    | This was a no-no with Big Bill. Ellison knew how to play the game.
    | The vast majority of Americans polled were shocked at how
    | over_the_top this was.

    Am I correct in remembering that Ellison was from Utah, home of Orrin
    Hatch? Wasnt' there some kind of mutual back-scratching there as well? I
    remember reading how MS was called "naive" for not donating more to
    political campaigns and playing the game. I also remember reading some
    parallels to "Atlas Shrugged" in Gate's insistence on trying to stay
    non-political.


    In contrast, around the height of the Clinton
    | Administration's Witch Trial against Microsoft, the Justice
    | Department (really Bill and Hillary) rubber stamped the enormous
    | merger between Exxon and Mobil even though Clinton pretended to be
    | upset over the deal. Yeah, right! Yet, not very much of a peep from
    | the Justice Department. Gee, I wonder why? This deal makes Microsoft
    | look like a piece of lint in your navel, by comparison.

    Exxon and Mobil merge? Why that's crazy! They're huge
    multinational oil companies and millions of businesses are dependant on
    their products. Allowing them to merge would create a virtual monopoly
    that would put all the little guys out of business and force us all to
    buy their inferior products. I hope that somebody notices this before
    it's too late!



    |
    | (3) It is so hypocritical to use Microsoft software, when you hate
    | them as much as you and others do who dominate this newsgroup, that
    | you have held hostage for years with your Hate MS rhetoric. So mean
    | spirited and hypocritical!!! As I've said in the past, do not use any
    | MS software at home if you hate them that much. Buy a Mac, use GEOS,
    | use DOS, get OS/2, or go Linux.

    Pat, some people are constrained by work or other factors. While I might
    fool around with a Linux setup, there's no way I'd let any of my
    computer illiterate family use it, too.


    There isn't a thing you do on a
    | computer that can't be duplicated by one of those platforms.

    Want to review this one, Pat? Play MP3's, burn CD's, run GEOS on a
    network...


    | Microsoft has NO MONOPOLY in the sense of limiting your choice in
    | getting FREE or FOR COST software. Spare me that old and tired "Its
    | bundled on PCs so what can I do" BS. You can buy commercial PCs with
    | Linux, or get an OEM PC with no OS or any OS of your choosing.
    | Frankly, I'm so sick of the false pretense about not wanting to use
    | Microsoft software that permeates this ng.

    You're not suggesting that people who talk the talk but don't walk the
    walk are lazy, are you?

    |
    | (4) Microsoft made a huge number of Multi-millionaires and successful
    | businesses, as a result of Windows, that far exceeded their own
    | revenue and profitability. It almost seems as though Clinton's
    | efforts to undo Microsoft created a negative vibe in the computer
    | industry that eventually brought down the dot-com bubble,
    | prematurely. I think it would have happened anyway, but its kind of
    | sweet justice it happened while Bill was still in office. Anyone who
    | has seen the documentary film STARTUP.COM in the theater or on DVD
    | will know what I'm referring to. I picture that era of insanity as
    | being a soufflé that FELL when Clinton slammed the door in
    | Microsoft's face.


    No real opinion on this, since I'm not in the industry and haven't
    followed the players that closely. I'll keep an eye out for that movie,
    though.

    --
    Tom



  7. Re: Moral victory...

    I was at a highend custom build PC shop, helping a friend configure a PC for
    his client. This shop offered to bundle the equivalent of MS Office using
    third party software in a suite with no MS applications software. There is
    more of this going on than you would imagine.


    "Tom Accuosti" wrote in message
    news:UIXSa.15125$Mc.1141268@newsread1.prod.itd.ear thlink.net...
    > In news:TjISa.64743$3o3.4297018@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net,
    > Pat wrote:
    >
    > Pat, thanks for presenting this in a succinct, straightforward way.
    >
    > | This seething with hate over Microsoft, and using every opportunity
    > | to make a point about how rotten they are, has gone on for years and
    > | when I've referenced this behavior in the past, its been met with
    > | replies of denial. Get over it:
    >
    > It's pretty easy to get on the "I Hate MS" bandwagon, for any number of
    > reasons, real or imagined. There are dozens of settings that I wish were
    > easier to find and/or configure. There's hundreds or thousands of pages
    > of tech docs to go through in an effort to find what's causing a problem
    > sometimes. And there's the way that they seem to steamroll over their
    > competition, making it impractical to market products that directly
    > compete with their flagship Office and OS software.
    >
    > That being said, users still have a choice, and as you correctly stated,
    > we're in a much better position as users than the old manufactures and
    > mills were against the *real* monopolies of the steel and oil barons a
    > century (or less) ago.
    >
    > | (1) Microsoft WON the Desktop war legitimately, and every other OS
    > | lost. GEOS was in the GUI_OS running for two years but was unable to
    > | belly up to the bar with a significant update to their first release.
    > | It was too little too late, after that.
    >
    > I'd say "lost" might be too strong a word because the filed changes all
    > the time. But when you consider market share, MS comes out
    > overwhelmingly ahead.
    >
    > Also, consider that the way that they asked, and later, demanded the
    > kinds of bundling agreements that they had with PC makers was not a bad
    > business plan. IBM blew several opportunities with OS2, Apple wouldn't
    > license it's stuff, and what was left? CPM? GEM Desktop? Amiga? Wasn't
    > it Boss Tweed who said "I seen my opportunities, and I took'em."? They
    > did nothing illegal. They recognized that MS had a good name and a wide
    > range of software, and marketed the hell out of it. Until Win95 came
    > out, PC writers still mentioned the potential for other OS's, including
    > GeoWorks (John Dvorak in PC Mag).
    >
    >
    > | (2) Microsoft's aggressive business practices, which is minor
    > | compared to what IBM used to do, was met with a Justice Department
    > | that went way over the top. Larry Ellison, of Oracle, would grit his
    > | teeth about Bill Gates having more money than he did. Yet, Gates and
    > | his wife have given away Billions of dollars to three charities they
    > | both founded. Two are in the US and one only targets distributing
    > | milk for children in impoverished countries. Larry, a FOB, had
    > | Clinton's personal phone number and gave liberally to his campaign
    > | fund raisers, perhaps as Larry's charity of choice. Gates did not
    > | play ball in giving contributions to politicians, including Clinton.
    > | This was a no-no with Big Bill. Ellison knew how to play the game.
    > | The vast majority of Americans polled were shocked at how
    > | over_the_top this was.
    >
    > Am I correct in remembering that Ellison was from Utah, home of Orrin
    > Hatch? Wasnt' there some kind of mutual back-scratching there as well? I
    > remember reading how MS was called "naive" for not donating more to
    > political campaigns and playing the game. I also remember reading some
    > parallels to "Atlas Shrugged" in Gate's insistence on trying to stay
    > non-political.
    >
    >
    > In contrast, around the height of the Clinton
    > | Administration's Witch Trial against Microsoft, the Justice
    > | Department (really Bill and Hillary) rubber stamped the enormous
    > | merger between Exxon and Mobil even though Clinton pretended to be
    > | upset over the deal. Yeah, right! Yet, not very much of a peep from
    > | the Justice Department. Gee, I wonder why? This deal makes Microsoft
    > | look like a piece of lint in your navel, by comparison.
    >
    > Exxon and Mobil merge? Why that's crazy! They're huge
    > multinational oil companies and millions of businesses are dependant on
    > their products. Allowing them to merge would create a virtual monopoly
    > that would put all the little guys out of business and force us all to
    > buy their inferior products. I hope that somebody notices this before
    > it's too late!

    >
    >
    > |
    > | (3) It is so hypocritical to use Microsoft software, when you hate
    > | them as much as you and others do who dominate this newsgroup, that
    > | you have held hostage for years with your Hate MS rhetoric. So mean
    > | spirited and hypocritical!!! As I've said in the past, do not use any
    > | MS software at home if you hate them that much. Buy a Mac, use GEOS,
    > | use DOS, get OS/2, or go Linux.
    >
    > Pat, some people are constrained by work or other factors. While I might
    > fool around with a Linux setup, there's no way I'd let any of my
    > computer illiterate family use it, too.
    >
    >
    > There isn't a thing you do on a
    > | computer that can't be duplicated by one of those platforms.
    >
    > Want to review this one, Pat? Play MP3's, burn CD's, run GEOS on a
    > network...
    >
    >
    > | Microsoft has NO MONOPOLY in the sense of limiting your choice in
    > | getting FREE or FOR COST software. Spare me that old and tired "Its
    > | bundled on PCs so what can I do" BS. You can buy commercial PCs with
    > | Linux, or get an OEM PC with no OS or any OS of your choosing.
    > | Frankly, I'm so sick of the false pretense about not wanting to use
    > | Microsoft software that permeates this ng.
    >
    > You're not suggesting that people who talk the talk but don't walk the
    > walk are lazy, are you?
    >
    > |
    > | (4) Microsoft made a huge number of Multi-millionaires and successful
    > | businesses, as a result of Windows, that far exceeded their own
    > | revenue and profitability. It almost seems as though Clinton's
    > | efforts to undo Microsoft created a negative vibe in the computer
    > | industry that eventually brought down the dot-com bubble,
    > | prematurely. I think it would have happened anyway, but its kind of
    > | sweet justice it happened while Bill was still in office. Anyone who
    > | has seen the documentary film STARTUP.COM in the theater or on DVD
    > | will know what I'm referring to. I picture that era of insanity as
    > | being a soufflé that FELL when Clinton slammed the door in
    > | Microsoft's face.
    >
    >
    > No real opinion on this, since I'm not in the industry and haven't
    > followed the players that closely. I'll keep an eye out for that movie,
    > though.
    >
    > --
    > Tom
    >
    >




  8. Re: Moral victory...

    "Pat" wrote in message
    news:_y1Ta.66033$3o3.4398492@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net
    | I was at a highend custom build PC shop, helping a friend configure a
    | PC for his client. This shop offered to bundle the equivalent of MS
    | Office using third party software in a suite with no MS applications
    | software. There is more of this going on than you would imagine.

    Sure there is. I used StarOffice for a while, and now I downloaded
    OpenOffice (the successor, it would seem), but haven't had time to
    install it. I'd recommend these to people who need Word or Excel, but
    who only use the those products minimally - yet need to be able to open
    a "real" Excel or Word doc.

    BTW, I just d/loaded Opera 7, based on a review in PC World. I've only
    been using it for a few hours, but I'm loving it and just might send in
    the $40 to get the non-ad version. Very full featured, and I like the
    way that you can configure it so the "pop up" ad windows open in the
    background on a tab, instead of in a full window on top of the one
    you're reading. Very customizable, includes mail and NG reading (I'm
    having a hard time sending mail, but that might be an Earthlink issue,
    not sure yet).

    Very kewl indeed!

    Tom



  9. Re: Moral victory...

    << and I like the way that you can configure it so the "pop up" ad windows open
    in the background on a tab, instead of in a full window on top of the one
    you're reading. >>

    Tom -- Why would you want any pop-up "ad" to open at all??

    Ray



  10. Re: Moral victory...

    << Compared to Gates...They had REAL MONOPOLIES and people had zero or
    pathetically
    little choice. >>

    You make an exquisite point! In virtually all businesses toay, you (I) have
    "zero or pathetically
    little choice" in which software we are allowed to use. That that may be a
    "good thing" (because of MIS/maintenance problems of multi-platform scenarios),
    but that is a side issue to the fact that the choice is in fact limited -- due
    to the court-adjudicated MONOPOLY that MS has on the PC industry.

    << Please keep your eye on the ball rather than being distracted by what is
    happening off the field. >>

    News is news... Just looking for a reaction -- obviously it struck a nerve.

    << The task at hand is to put the heat on BBX, not Microsoft. >>

    OK -- I promise never to mention MS again -- if you will accept the same
    challenge. :-)

    Ray



    >Subject: Re: Moral victory...
    >From: "Pat" hotpatpar@hotmail.com
    >Date: 7/21/03 7:52 AM Pacific Daylight Time
    >Message-id:
    >
    >
    >"Ray Kopczynski" wrote in message
    >news:20030721092858.21545.00000411@mb-m07.aol.com...
    >> << This seething with hate over Microsoft... >>

    >
    >> Aye -- they "WON" -- but the lawsuits/settlements PROVE that it was NOT
    >> "legitimately."

    >
    >Read my resonse to Hyubso.
    >
    >> So I'm a hypocrite -- what's your point? (And I have said many times that

    >I
    >> have NO choice in the matter at work.) That in no way takes away from the
    >> central point of my argument -- that MS is/has been a MONOPOLY that has

    >been
    >> taken to court and lost over & over & over again.

    >
    >My point is to gwt over it. The task at hand is to put the heat on BBX, not
    >Microsoft. You guys have been giving the GEOS "keepers of the flame" a FREE
    >PASS, GET OUT OF JAIL monopoly card for years.
    >
    >> Turn of the century "robber barons" did same in multitude of endeavors --

    >sure
    >> doesn't make it right!

    >
    >Bill Gates' Microsoft and Windows is one of prime software companies and
    >Operating Syetems that you can elect to use, or not use. If Microsoft ceased
    >developing Windows, for example, there would be a shock in the world but not
    >one computer would stop running. people would just keep running their
    >Windows or move to other OS or computer platforms.
    >
    >Compared to Gates, the luminaries of big industry, of the past, had clear
    >monopolies in their fields of interest. Railroads, Steel, Communications,
    >Rubber, et al. They had REAL MONOPOLIES and people had zero or pathetically
    >little choice.
    >
    >My advise:
    >
    >Please keep your eye on the ball rather than being distracted by what is
    >happening off the field. This is a GEOS newsgroup and BBX is the "keeper of
    >the GEOS flame", yet I have seen only half hearted and abortive attempts at
    >putting the onus on them for where GEOS situated, on this day of our Lord.




  11. Re: Moral victory...

    Micirosoft has a special Office XP package without Access for $149 and I've
    seen it at Walmart. Its packaged as a laminated envelope that can be
    displayed on a peg board where the seller can rack several in very little
    space.


    "Tom Accuosti" wrote in message
    news:183Ta.15961$Mc.1200019@newsread1.prod.itd.ear thlink.net...
    > "Pat" wrote in message
    > news:_y1Ta.66033$3o3.4398492@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net
    > | I was at a highend custom build PC shop, helping a friend configure a
    > | PC for his client. This shop offered to bundle the equivalent of MS
    > | Office using third party software in a suite with no MS applications
    > | software. There is more of this going on than you would imagine.
    >
    > Sure there is. I used StarOffice for a while, and now I downloaded
    > OpenOffice (the successor, it would seem), but haven't had time to
    > install it. I'd recommend these to people who need Word or Excel, but
    > who only use the those products minimally - yet need to be able to open
    > a "real" Excel or Word doc.
    >
    > BTW, I just d/loaded Opera 7, based on a review in PC World. I've only
    > been using it for a few hours, but I'm loving it and just might send in
    > the $40 to get the non-ad version. Very full featured, and I like the
    > way that you can configure it so the "pop up" ad windows open in the
    > background on a tab, instead of in a full window on top of the one
    > you're reading. Very customizable, includes mail and NG reading (I'm
    > having a hard time sending mail, but that might be an Earthlink issue,
    > not sure yet).
    >
    > Very kewl indeed!
    >
    > Tom
    >
    >




  12. Re: Moral victory...


    "Ray Kopczynski" wrote in message
    news:20030722205847.14640.00000562@mb-m02.aol.com...
    > << Compared to Gates...They had REAL MONOPOLIES and people had zero or
    > pathetically
    > little choice. >>
    >
    > You make an exquisite point!


    Thanks, I'll press this in my scrap book.

    > In virtually all businesses toay, you (I) have "zero or pathetically

    little choice" in which software we are allowed to use.

    Excuse me, but you have made a grievous error. I was talking about real
    monopolies back in days when heavy industrialists, for example, dominated in
    their industries (Steel, Railroad, et al). I specifically made this
    differentiation from software. You are trying morphing my words and giving
    it the opposite meaning. Please, don't do that again.

    One more time. Software = Choice. I don't have to use GEOS, you don't have
    to use Windows. Get it?




  13. Re: Moral victory...

    that's one way geos could be marketed.. in one of those envelopes.
    with no manuals.. selling for $19.95.

    hey, ms office without access has basically the same functionality as
    geowrite and geodraw and geocalc



    Pat wrote:
    > Micirosoft has a special Office XP package without Access for $149 and I've
    > seen it at Walmart. Its packaged as a laminated envelope that can be
    > displayed on a peg board where the seller can rack several in very little
    > space.
    >
    >
    > "T



  14. Re: Moral victory...

    The courts were following up on the bogus Justice Department witch trial of
    Microsoft. In reality, look at the users and ask them if Microsoft prevented
    them form using software of their choice? Outside of the group who hate
    Microsoft, the overwhelming majority of users were not a moved to feel the
    way you do.

    Back to the original point I made. AT&T had a monopoly. What was your
    option? They owned the lines, the phones, and everything up to the wires and
    that black thing you picked up when it rang.

    Are you going to put WIndows in the same category as that?








    "Ray Kopczynski" wrote in message
    news:20030723093133.06890.00000336@mb-m06.aol.com...
    > << Excuse me, but you have made a grievous error. >>
    >
    > I firmly disagree.
    >
    > << I was talking about real monopolies back in days when heavy

    industrialists,
    > for example, dominated in their industries (Steel, Railroad, et al). I
    > specifically made this differentiation from software.>>
    >
    > You are emphatically stating the above and obviously implying that you do

    not
    > believe Windows "dominated their industry." Over & over, courts have said
    > exactly the opposite -- and my intial post to start this thread is simply
    > another in a long line of those verdicts. Note: I did say it was a "Moral
    > victory..." (only).
    >
    > <>
    >
    > Nope -- you're doing quite well on your own. :-)
    >
    > Ray
    >
    >




  15. Re: Moral victory...

    As Bob would said, who wants a 10 year old technology, with dated drivers
    that can't embrace any of the printers the average person owns today, lacks
    good Internet access, needs a DOS guru to run on your contemporary PC, is
    not a Windows program, should you run it under Windows and want Windows
    application interoperability, et al. Hey, look at this ng. Given that you
    have just as many ways of buying GEOS that existed when New Deal was going
    strong, where are the new users? Answer: There are very few new users and
    the old ones have thrown up their hands in disgust and left. Therefore, the
    extremists have failed to keep the flame alive. Now you are recommending a
    marketing campaign that YOU know, I know, BBX knows, we ALL know, is
    ridiculous!



    "hyubso" wrote in message
    news:3F1E07B6.3070500@prodigy.net...
    > that's one way geos could be marketed.. in one of those envelopes.
    > with no manuals.. selling for $19.95.
    >
    > hey, ms office without access has basically the same functionality as
    > geowrite and geodraw and geocalc
    >
    >
    >
    > Pat wrote:
    > > Micirosoft has a special Office XP package without Access for $149 and

    I've
    > > seen it at Walmart. Its packaged as a laminated envelope that can be
    > > displayed on a peg board where the seller can rack several in very

    little
    > > space.
    > >
    > >
    > > "T

    >




  16. Re: Moral victory...

    In news:OdjH/oHpvWHT092yn@visi.com,
    Richard Steiner wrote:
    | Here in comp.os.geos.misc,
    | gwrepray@aol.com (Ray Kopczynski) spake unto us, saying:
    |
    || << and I like the way that you can configure it so the "pop up" ad
    || windows open in the background on a tab, instead of in a full window
    || on top of the one you're reading. >>
    ||
    || Tom -- Why would you want any pop-up "ad" to open at all??
    |
    | Some pop-up windows are not ads, but rather are part of the web site's
    | actual content. A poor design, IMO, and a relatively rare thing in my
    | surfing experience, but there ya go...


    And some sites fritz out on you if you disable the pop-ups. Granted, I'm
    not on big commercial sites very often, but so many sites now have mini
    pop-up windows. It's annoying. Not a major deal, just annoying. But I
    was impressed that Opera let you allow the windows to pop up as a "tab"
    in your current window (much like a tabbed worksheet in Excel or Lotus),
    so your surfing experience isn't marred by an ad for an overpriced
    camera in the middle of the pic of Heidi Klum or Halle Berry or
    whatever.

    Tom




  17. Re: Moral victory...

    In news:3F1E07B6.3070500@prodigy.net,
    hyubso wrote:
    | that's one way geos could be marketed.. in one of those envelopes.
    | with no manuals.. selling for $19.95.
    |
    | hey, ms office without access has basically the same functionality as
    | geowrite and geodraw and geocalc

    Hy, I'm sure that this is one of those reflexive, knee-jerk "MS is
    evil!" reactions, because I can't believe that you're suggesting that
    Excel and PowerPoint are in the same class as GeoCalc and GeoDraw, or
    that GeoWorks provides anything even *close* to the functionality of
    Office - even the most basic Office bundle is incredibly powerful. How
    did I ever get anything done without VBA?

    Here's a macro that I updated in Excel just yesterday:

    Private Sub Worksheet_BeforeDoubleClick(ByVal Target As Excel.Range,
    Cancel As Boolean)
    Call Click_Re_Quote
    End Sub

    Private Sub Click_Re_Quote()
    ' Runs the Re-Quote macro with a double click
    ' Turn on Worksheet BeforeDoubleClick Property

    msg = "This will copy your old estimate from the DATA sheet to the
    MAIN sheet." & vbCrLf & vbCrLf
    msg = msg & "It will clear the old estimate in the MAIN sheet" &
    vbCrLf & vbCrLf
    msg = msg & " and insert today's date for a new estimate." & vbCrLf
    & vbCrLf
    msg = msg & "Make sure you save your existing estimate."
    ans = MsgBox(msg, vbOKCancel + vbQuestion, "Are you sure you want to
    do this?")
    If ans <> vbOK Then Exit Sub

    With Application
    .ScreenUpdating = False
    .Calculation = xlCalculationManual
    End With
    ActiveCell.Rows("1:1").EntireRow.Select
    Selection.Copy
    Worksheets("Main").Activate
    With Application
    .Range("B1").Activate
    .ActiveCell.Select
    .Selection.PasteSpecial Paste:=xlValues, Operation:=xlNone,
    SkipBlanks:=False _
    , Transpose:=True
    .CutCopyMode = False
    .ScreenUpdating = True
    .Range("B1").Select
    .Calculation = xlCalculationAutomatic
    End With
    Worksheets("Data").Activate
    Application.CutCopyMode = False
    Worksheets("Main").Activate

    With Application
    .Range("B5").Activate
    .ActiveCell.Select
    ActiveCell.FormulaR1C1 = "=TODAY()"
    ActiveCell.Copy
    ActiveCell.PasteSpecial Paste:=xlValues
    .Range("B1").Activate
    Application.CutCopyMode = False

    End With

    Exit Sub 'Oops

    End Sub

    (Yeah, I know, it could be streamlined, but I don't spend enough tiome
    working with VBA on a daily basis, so I just hammer out what I need
    sometimes. )

    Oh, wait - you can't do this in GeoCalc, can you? This macro belongs in
    a multi-page spreadsheet, and allows a user to double-click in a row of
    one sheet (this sheet is used as a *database*, btw) and it copies the
    info over to a calculation sheet, transposing the row into a column and
    popping the current date into the appropriate cell. It's used for
    pricing in manufacturing, but I've used variations of this sheet for a
    number of other things.

    In fact, GeoBase, or NewDex, or whatever you call it, is simply a
    flat-file db, and is no different from a large Excel spreadsheet. These
    macros have made this Excel db very easy for my cow-orkers and employees
    to use. I had something similar that I had built in GeoCalc, and then
    moved to MS Works. Guess what? My Excel sheets are so much better that
    they're not even in the same class. I have Access, but haven't really
    attempted anything useful. OTOH, the ability to pull even flat-file data
    into a spreadsheet automatically, and then update just some quantities
    and vendor pricing and have a spreadsheet spit back a price, copy the
    update back to the database sheet, and print out one of several
    varieties of formatted price estimates for the customer is pretty darn
    slick, wouldn't you say?

    Now if you had said that MS Works give you the same functionality, then
    you'd be much closer to the truth. And actually, the old DOS version had
    a macro (actually, a keystroke) recorder that went missing during the
    switch to Win3. BTW, the above VBA routine was not done as recorded
    keystrokes, which is all you'd be allowed in GW (with the add-on utility
    that Bob complained about in another thread).

    Any comment on all this, Hy?

    Tom




  18. Re: Moral victory...

    Free is good.


    "Tom Accuosti" wrote in message
    news:_IyTa.18274$Mc.1391152@newsread1.prod.itd.ear thlink.net...
    > In news:lJlTa.67436$3o3.4500503@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net,
    > Pat wrote:
    > | Micirosoft has a special Office XP package without Access for $149
    > | and I've seen it at Walmart. Its packaged as a laminated envelope
    > | that can be displayed on a peg board where the seller can rack
    > | several in very little space.
    > |
    >
    > I had wanted to make the point that one could replace the simpler MS
    > Office apps inexpensively. $149 is inexpensive for some people, but
    > "free" (Open Office or StarOffice) and $29 (Lotus Smart Suite) are
    > within anybody's price range.
    >
    > Tom
    >
    >




  19. Re: Moral victory...

    << The courts were following up on the bogus Justice Department witch trial of
    Microsoft. >>

    ROFL! This surely is the pot calling the kettle black vis-a-vis perceived bias
    from us Geos folks!

    << Back to the original point I made. AT&T had a monopoly. What was your
    option? >>

    Starting/creating your own phone company from scratch - running the wires, etc.
    You would have the same insurmountable problems facing any "startup"
    operating-system creator today...

    << Are you going to put WIndows in the same category as that? >>

    Bingo!

    Ray



  20. Re: Moral victory...

    << These macros have made this Excel db very easy for my cow-orkers and
    employees to use. >>

    "cow-workers" -- A freudian slip no doubt... :-)

    Ray



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