well, what does "legitimately" mean??

would you say fairly???


would you say honoestly??






Pat wrote:
>
>
> (1) Microsoft WON the Desktop war legitimately,

<< This seething with hate over Microsoft... >>

?? LOL -- Just posting facts as you purport to do.

<< (1) Microsoft WON the Desktop war legitimately, and every other OS lost. >>

Aye -- they "WON" -- but the lawsuits/settlements PROVE that it was NOT
"legitimately."

<< GEOS was in the GUI_OS running for two years but was unable to belly up to
the bar... >>

No argument there, but we CAN (and do) argue about the causes.

<< (3) It is so hypocritical (for you) to use Microsoft software... >>

So I'm a hypocrite -- what's your point? (And I have said many times that I
have NO choice in the matter at work.) That in no way takes away from the
central point of my argument -- that MS is/has been a MONOPOLY that has been
taken to court and lost over & over & over again.

<< (4) Microsoft made a huge number of Multi-millionaires and successful
businesses, as a result of Windows... >>

Turn of the century "robber barons" did same in multitude of endeavors -- sure
doesn't make it right!

You keep bringing up other red-herrings, but never effectively address the
illegal business practices that MS has been taken to court (and lost) over.
While it may be true they "won," the GUI process in no way do I (or many
others) have to "get over it"!

Ray

Legitimately as it refers to the games that ALL computer company play in the
computer business, at large. They all do the same stuff. Aggressive to the
max. Sometimes they cross a line. Microsoft did but got the equivalent of a
lifetime in jail for what was a "running through a stop light" infraction.
All around them, other companies were running through the same light but
never pulled over by the Justice department cops. Just look at Oracle's
history.


"hyubso" wrote in message
news:3F1B6FEB.7020906@prodigy.net...
> well, what does "legitimately" mean??
>
> would you say fairly???
>
>
> would you say honoestly??
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Pat wrote:
> >
> >
> > (1) Microsoft WON the Desktop war legitimately,
>

"Ray Kopczynski" wrote in message
news:20030721092858.21545.00000411@mb-m07.aol.com...
> << This seething with hate over Microsoft... >>

> Aye -- they "WON" -- but the lawsuits/settlements PROVE that it was NOT
> "legitimately."

Read my resonse to Hyubso.

> So I'm a hypocrite -- what's your point? (And I have said many times that
I
> have NO choice in the matter at work.) That in no way takes away from the
> central point of my argument -- that MS is/has been a MONOPOLY that has
been
> taken to court and lost over & over & over again.

My point is to gwt over it. The task at hand is to put the heat on BBX, not
Microsoft. You guys have been giving the GEOS "keepers of the flame" a FREE
PASS, GET OUT OF JAIL monopoly card for years.

> Turn of the century "robber barons" did same in multitude of endeavors --
sure
> doesn't make it right!

Bill Gates' Microsoft and Windows is one of prime software companies and
Operating Syetems that you can elect to use, or not use. If Microsoft ceased
developing Windows, for example, there would be a shock in the world but not
one computer would stop running. people would just keep running their
Windows or move to other OS or computer platforms.

Compared to Gates, the luminaries of big industry, of the past, had clear
monopolies in their fields of interest. Railroads, Steel, Communications,
Rubber, et al. They had REAL MONOPOLIES and people had zero or pathetically
little choice.

My advise:

Please keep your eye on the ball rather than being distracted by what is
happening off the field. This is a GEOS newsgroup and BBX is the "keeper of
the GEOS flame", yet I have seen only half hearted and abortive attempts at
putting the onus on them for where GEOS situated, on this day of our Lord.

In news:TjISa.64743$3o3.4297018@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net,
Pat wrote:

Pat, thanks for presenting this in a succinct, straightforward way.

| This seething with hate over Microsoft, and using every opportunity
| to make a point about how rotten they are, has gone on for years and
| when I've referenced this behavior in the past, its been met with
| replies of denial. Get over it:

It's pretty easy to get on the "I Hate MS" bandwagon, for any number of
reasons, real or imagined. There are dozens of settings that I wish were
easier to find and/or configure. There's hundreds or thousands of pages
of tech docs to go through in an effort to find what's causing a problem
sometimes. And there's the way that they seem to steamroll over their
competition, making it impractical to market products that directly
compete with their flagship Office and OS software.

That being said, users still have a choice, and as you correctly stated,
we're in a much better position as users than the old manufactures and
mills were against the *real* monopolies of the steel and oil barons a
century (or less) ago.

| (1) Microsoft WON the Desktop war legitimately, and every other OS
| lost. GEOS was in the GUI_OS running for two years but was unable to
| belly up to the bar with a significant update to their first release.
| It was too little too late, after that.

I'd say "lost" might be too strong a word because the filed changes all
the time. But when you consider market share, MS comes out
overwhelmingly ahead.

Also, consider that the way that they asked, and later, demanded the
kinds of bundling agreements that they had with PC makers was not a bad
business plan. IBM blew several opportunities with OS2, Apple wouldn't
license it's stuff, and what was left? CPM? GEM Desktop? Amiga? Wasn't
it Boss Tweed who said "I seen my opportunities, and I took'em."? They
did nothing illegal. They recognized that MS had a good name and a wide
range of software, and marketed the hell out of it. Until Win95 came
out, PC writers still mentioned the potential for other OS's, including
GeoWorks (John Dvorak in PC Mag).


| (2) Microsoft's aggressive business practices, which is minor
| compared to what IBM used to do, was met with a Justice Department
| that went way over the top. Larry Ellison, of Oracle, would grit his
| teeth about Bill Gates having more money than he did. Yet, Gates and
| his wife have given away Billions of dollars to three charities they
| both founded. Two are in the US and one only targets distributing
| milk for children in impoverished countries. Larry, a FOB, had
| Clinton's personal phone number and gave liberally to his campaign
| fund raisers, perhaps as Larry's charity of choice. Gates did not
| play ball in giving contributions to politicians, including Clinton.
| This was a no-no with Big Bill. Ellison knew how to play the game.
| The vast majority of Americans polled were shocked at how
| over_the_top this was.

Am I correct in remembering that Ellison was from Utah, home of Orrin
Hatch? Wasnt' there some kind of mutual back-scratching there as well? I
remember reading how MS was called "naive" for not donating more to
political campaigns and playing the game. I also remember reading some
parallels to "Atlas Shrugged" in Gate's insistence on trying to stay
non-political.


In contrast, around the height of the Clinton
| Administration's Witch Trial against Microsoft, the Justice
| Department (really Bill and Hillary) rubber stamped the enormous
| merger between Exxon and Mobil even though Clinton pretended to be
| upset over the deal. Yeah, right! Yet, not very much of a peep from
| the Justice Department. Gee, I wonder why? This deal makes Microsoft
| look like a piece of lint in your navel, by comparison.

Exxon and Mobil merge? Why that's crazy! They're huge
multinational oil companies and millions of businesses are dependant on
their products. Allowing them to merge would create a virtual monopoly
that would put all the little guys out of business and force us all to
buy their inferior products. I hope that somebody notices this before
it's too late!


|
| (3) It is so hypocritical to use Microsoft software, when you hate
| them as much as you and others do who dominate this newsgroup, that
| you have held hostage for years with your Hate MS rhetoric. So mean
| spirited and hypocritical!!! As I've said in the past, do not use any
| MS software at home if you hate them that much. Buy a Mac, use GEOS,
| use DOS, get OS/2, or go Linux.

Pat, some people are constrained by work or other factors. While I might
fool around with a Linux setup, there's no way I'd let any of my
computer illiterate family use it, too.


There isn't a thing you do on a
| computer that can't be duplicated by one of those platforms.

Want to review this one, Pat? Play MP3's, burn CD's, run GEOS on a
network...


| Microsoft has NO MONOPOLY in the sense of limiting your choice in
| getting FREE or FOR COST software. Spare me that old and tired "Its
| bundled on PCs so what can I do" BS. You can buy commercial PCs with
| Linux, or get an OEM PC with no OS or any OS of your choosing.
| Frankly, I'm so sick of the false pretense about not wanting to use
| Microsoft software that permeates this ng.

You're not suggesting that people who talk the talk but don't walk the
walk are lazy, are you?

|
| (4) Microsoft made a huge number of Multi-millionaires and successful
| businesses, as a result of Windows, that far exceeded their own
| revenue and profitability. It almost seems as though Clinton's
| efforts to undo Microsoft created a negative vibe in the computer
| industry that eventually brought down the dot-com bubble,
| prematurely. I think it would have happened anyway, but its kind of
| sweet justice it happened while Bill was still in office. Anyone who
| has seen the documentary film STARTUP.COM in the theater or on DVD
| will know what I'm referring to. I picture that era of insanity as
| being a soufflé that FELL when Clinton slammed the door in
| Microsoft's face.


No real opinion on this, since I'm not in the industry and haven't
followed the players that closely. I'll keep an eye out for that movie,
though.

--
Tom

I was at a highend custom build PC shop, helping a friend configure a PC for
his client. This shop offered to bundle the equivalent of MS Office using
third party software in a suite with no MS applications software. There is
more of this going on than you would imagine.


"Tom Accuosti" wrote in message
news:UIXSa.15125$Mc.1141268@newsread1.prod.itd.ear thlink.net...
> In news:TjISa.64743$3o3.4297018@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net,
> Pat wrote:
>
> Pat, thanks for presenting this in a succinct, straightforward way.
>
> | This seething with hate over Microsoft, and using every opportunity
> | to make a point about how rotten they are, has gone on for years and
> | when I've referenced this behavior in the past, its been met with
> | replies of denial. Get over it:
>
> It's pretty easy to get on the "I Hate MS" bandwagon, for any number of
> reasons, real or imagined. There are dozens of settings that I wish were
> easier to find and/or configure. There's hundreds or thousands of pages
> of tech docs to go through in an effort to find what's causing a problem
> sometimes. And there's the way that they seem to steamroll over their
> competition, making it impractical to market products that directly
> compete with their flagship Office and OS software.
>
> That being said, users still have a choice, and as you correctly stated,
> we're in a much better position as users than the old manufactures and
> mills were against the *real* monopolies of the steel and oil barons a
> century (or less) ago.
>
> | (1) Microsoft WON the Desktop war legitimately, and every other OS
> | lost. GEOS was in the GUI_OS running for two years but was unable to
> | belly up to the bar with a significant update to their first release.
> | It was too little too late, after that.
>
> I'd say "lost" might be too strong a word because the filed changes all
> the time. But when you consider market share, MS comes out
> overwhelmingly ahead.
>
> Also, consider that the way that they asked, and later, demanded the
> kinds of bundling agreements that they had with PC makers was not a bad
> business plan. IBM blew several opportunities with OS2, Apple wouldn't
> license it's stuff, and what was left? CPM? GEM Desktop? Amiga? Wasn't
> it Boss Tweed who said "I seen my opportunities, and I took'em."? They
> did nothing illegal. They recognized that MS had a good name and a wide
> range of software, and marketed the hell out of it. Until Win95 came
> out, PC writers still mentioned the potential for other OS's, including
> GeoWorks (John Dvorak in PC Mag).
>
>
> | (2) Microsoft's aggressive business practices, which is minor
> | compared to what IBM used to do, was met with a Justice Department
> | that went way over the top. Larry Ellison, of Oracle, would grit his
> | teeth about Bill Gates having more money than he did. Yet, Gates and
> | his wife have given away Billions of dollars to three charities they
> | both founded. Two are in the US and one only targets distributing
> | milk for children in impoverished countries. Larry, a FOB, had
> | Clinton's personal phone number and gave liberally to his campaign
> | fund raisers, perhaps as Larry's charity of choice. Gates did not
> | play ball in giving contributions to politicians, including Clinton.
> | This was a no-no with Big Bill. Ellison knew how to play the game.
> | The vast majority of Americans polled were shocked at how
> | over_the_top this was.
>
> Am I correct in remembering that Ellison was from Utah, home of Orrin
> Hatch? Wasnt' there some kind of mutual back-scratching there as well? I
> remember reading how MS was called "naive" for not donating more to
> political campaigns and playing the game. I also remember reading some
> parallels to "Atlas Shrugged" in Gate's insistence on trying to stay
> non-political.
>
>
> In contrast, around the height of the Clinton
> | Administration's Witch Trial against Microsoft, the Justice
> | Department (really Bill and Hillary) rubber stamped the enormous
> | merger between Exxon and Mobil even though Clinton pretended to be
> | upset over the deal. Yeah, right! Yet, not very much of a peep from
> | the Justice Department. Gee, I wonder why? This deal makes Microsoft
> | look like a piece of lint in your navel, by comparison.
>
> Exxon and Mobil merge? Why that's crazy! They're huge
> multinational oil companies and millions of businesses are dependant on
> their products. Allowing them to merge would create a virtual monopoly
> that would put all the little guys out of business and force us all to
> buy their inferior products. I hope that somebody notices this before
> it's too late!
>
>
> |
> | (3) It is so hypocritical to use Microsoft software, when you hate
> | them as much as you and others do who dominate this newsgroup, that
> | you have held hostage for years with your Hate MS rhetoric. So mean
> | spirited and hypocritical!!! As I've said in the past, do not use any
> | MS software at home if you hate them that much. Buy a Mac, use GEOS,
> | use DOS, get OS/2, or go Linux.
>
> Pat, some people are constrained by work or other factors. While I might
> fool around with a Linux setup, there's no way I'd let any of my
> computer illiterate family use it, too.
>
>
> There isn't a thing you do on a
> | computer that can't be duplicated by one of those platforms.
>
> Want to review this one, Pat? Play MP3's, burn CD's, run GEOS on a
> network...
>
>
> | Microsoft has NO MONOPOLY in the sense of limiting your choice in
> | getting FREE or FOR COST software. Spare me that old and tired "Its
> | bundled on PCs so what can I do" BS. You can buy commercial PCs with
> | Linux, or get an OEM PC with no OS or any OS of your choosing.
> | Frankly, I'm so sick of the false pretense about not wanting to use
> | Microsoft software that permeates this ng.
>
> You're not suggesting that people who talk the talk but don't walk the
> walk are lazy, are you?
>
> |
> | (4) Microsoft made a huge number of Multi-millionaires and successful
> | businesses, as a result of Windows, that far exceeded their own
> | revenue and profitability. It almost seems as though Clinton's
> | efforts to undo Microsoft created a negative vibe in the computer
> | industry that eventually brought down the dot-com bubble,
> | prematurely. I think it would have happened anyway, but its kind of
> | sweet justice it happened while Bill was still in office. Anyone who
> | has seen the documentary film STARTUP.COM in the theater or on DVD
> | will know what I'm referring to. I picture that era of insanity as
> | being a soufflé that FELL when Clinton slammed the door in
> | Microsoft's face.
>
>
> No real opinion on this, since I'm not in the industry and haven't
> followed the players that closely. I'll keep an eye out for that movie,
> though.
>
> --
> Tom
>
>

"Pat" wrote in message
news:_y1Ta.66033$3o3.4398492@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net
| I was at a highend custom build PC shop, helping a friend configure a
| PC for his client. This shop offered to bundle the equivalent of MS
| Office using third party software in a suite with no MS applications
| software. There is more of this going on than you would imagine.

Sure there is. I used StarOffice for a while, and now I downloaded
OpenOffice (the successor, it would seem), but haven't had time to
install it. I'd recommend these to people who need Word or Excel, but
who only use the those products minimally - yet need to be able to open
a "real" Excel or Word doc.

BTW, I just d/loaded Opera 7, based on a review in PC World. I've only
been using it for a few hours, but I'm loving it and just might send in
the $40 to get the non-ad version. Very full featured, and I like the
way that you can configure it so the "pop up" ad windows open in the
background on a tab, instead of in a full window on top of the one
you're reading. Very customizable, includes mail and NG reading (I'm
having a hard time sending mail, but that might be an Earthlink issue,
not sure yet).

Very kewl indeed!

Tom

<< and I like the way that you can configure it so the "pop up" ad windows open
in the background on a tab, instead of in a full window on top of the one
you're reading. >>

Tom -- Why would you want any pop-up "ad" to open at all??

Ray

<< Compared to Gates...They had REAL MONOPOLIES and people had zero or
pathetically
little choice. >>

You make an exquisite point! In virtually all businesses toay, you (I) have
"zero or pathetically
little choice" in which software we are allowed to use. That that may be a
"good thing" (because of MIS/maintenance problems of multi-platform scenarios),
but that is a side issue to the fact that the choice is in fact limited -- due
to the court-adjudicated MONOPOLY that MS has on the PC industry.

<< Please keep your eye on the ball rather than being distracted by what is
happening off the field. >>

News is news... Just looking for a reaction -- obviously it struck a nerve.

<< The task at hand is to put the heat on BBX, not Microsoft. >>

OK -- I promise never to mention MS again -- if you will accept the same
challenge. :-)

Ray



>Subject: Re: Moral victory...
>From: "Pat" hotpatpar@hotmail.com
>Date: 7/21/03 7:52 AM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id:
>
>
>"Ray Kopczynski" wrote in message
>news:20030721092858.21545.00000411@mb-m07.aol.com...
>> << This seething with hate over Microsoft... >>
>
>> Aye -- they "WON" -- but the lawsuits/settlements PROVE that it was NOT
>> "legitimately."
>
>Read my resonse to Hyubso.
>
>> So I'm a hypocrite -- what's your point? (And I have said many times that
>I
>> have NO choice in the matter at work.) That in no way takes away from the
>> central point of my argument -- that MS is/has been a MONOPOLY that has
>been
>> taken to court and lost over & over & over again.
>
>My point is to gwt over it. The task at hand is to put the heat on BBX, not
>Microsoft. You guys have been giving the GEOS "keepers of the flame" a FREE
>PASS, GET OUT OF JAIL monopoly card for years.
>
>> Turn of the century "robber barons" did same in multitude of endeavors --
>sure
>> doesn't make it right!
>
>Bill Gates' Microsoft and Windows is one of prime software companies and
>Operating Syetems that you can elect to use, or not use. If Microsoft ceased
>developing Windows, for example, there would be a shock in the world but not
>one computer would stop running. people would just keep running their
>Windows or move to other OS or computer platforms.
>
>Compared to Gates, the luminaries of big industry, of the past, had clear
>monopolies in their fields of interest. Railroads, Steel, Communications,
>Rubber, et al. They had REAL MONOPOLIES and people had zero or pathetically
>little choice.
>
>My advise:
>
>Please keep your eye on the ball rather than being distracted by what is
>happening off the field. This is a GEOS newsgroup and BBX is the "keeper of
>the GEOS flame", yet I have seen only half hearted and abortive attempts at
>putting the onus on them for where GEOS situated, on this day of our Lord.

Micirosoft has a special Office XP package without Access for $149 and I've
seen it at Walmart. Its packaged as a laminated envelope that can be
displayed on a peg board where the seller can rack several in very little
space.


"Tom Accuosti" wrote in message
news:183Ta.15961$Mc.1200019@newsread1.prod.itd.ear thlink.net...
> "Pat" wrote in message
> news:_y1Ta.66033$3o3.4398492@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net
> | I was at a highend custom build PC shop, helping a friend configure a
> | PC for his client. This shop offered to bundle the equivalent of MS
> | Office using third party software in a suite with no MS applications
> | software. There is more of this going on than you would imagine.
>
> Sure there is. I used StarOffice for a while, and now I downloaded
> OpenOffice (the successor, it would seem), but haven't had time to
> install it. I'd recommend these to people who need Word or Excel, but
> who only use the those products minimally - yet need to be able to open
> a "real" Excel or Word doc.
>
> BTW, I just d/loaded Opera 7, based on a review in PC World. I've only
> been using it for a few hours, but I'm loving it and just might send in
> the $40 to get the non-ad version. Very full featured, and I like the
> way that you can configure it so the "pop up" ad windows open in the
> background on a tab, instead of in a full window on top of the one
> you're reading. Very customizable, includes mail and NG reading (I'm
> having a hard time sending mail, but that might be an Earthlink issue,
> not sure yet).
>
> Very kewl indeed!
>
> Tom
>
>

"Ray Kopczynski" wrote in message
news:20030722205847.14640.00000562@mb-m02.aol.com...
> << Compared to Gates...They had REAL MONOPOLIES and people had zero or
> pathetically
> little choice. >>
>
> You make an exquisite point!

Thanks, I'll press this in my scrap book.

> In virtually all businesses toay, you (I) have "zero or pathetically
little choice" in which software we are allowed to use.

Excuse me, but you have made a grievous error. I was talking about real
monopolies back in days when heavy industrialists, for example, dominated in
their industries (Steel, Railroad, et al). I specifically made this
differentiation from software. You are trying morphing my words and giving
it the opposite meaning. Please, don't do that again.

One more time. Software = Choice. I don't have to use GEOS, you don't have
to use Windows. Get it?

that's one way geos could be marketed.. in one of those envelopes.
with no manuals.. selling for $19.95.

hey, ms office without access has basically the same functionality as
geowrite and geodraw and geocalc



Pat wrote:
> Micirosoft has a special Office XP package without Access for $149 and I've
> seen it at Walmart. Its packaged as a laminated envelope that can be
> displayed on a peg board where the seller can rack several in very little
> space.
>
>
> "T

The courts were following up on the bogus Justice Department witch trial of
Microsoft. In reality, look at the users and ask them if Microsoft prevented
them form using software of their choice? Outside of the group who hate
Microsoft, the overwhelming majority of users were not a moved to feel the
way you do.

Back to the original point I made. AT&T had a monopoly. What was your
option? They owned the lines, the phones, and everything up to the wires and
that black thing you picked up when it rang.

Are you going to put WIndows in the same category as that?








"Ray Kopczynski" wrote in message
news:20030723093133.06890.00000336@mb-m06.aol.com...
> << Excuse me, but you have made a grievous error. >>
>
> I firmly disagree.
>
> << I was talking about real monopolies back in days when heavy
industrialists,
> for example, dominated in their industries (Steel, Railroad, et al). I
> specifically made this differentiation from software.>>
>
> You are emphatically stating the above and obviously implying that you do
not
> believe Windows "dominated their industry." Over & over, courts have said
> exactly the opposite -- and my intial post to start this thread is simply
> another in a long line of those verdicts. Note: I did say it was a "Moral
> victory..." (only).
>
> <>
>
> Nope -- you're doing quite well on your own. :-)
>
> Ray
>
>

As Bob would said, who wants a 10 year old technology, with dated drivers
that can't embrace any of the printers the average person owns today, lacks
good Internet access, needs a DOS guru to run on your contemporary PC, is
not a Windows program, should you run it under Windows and want Windows
application interoperability, et al. Hey, look at this ng. Given that you
have just as many ways of buying GEOS that existed when New Deal was going
strong, where are the new users? Answer: There are very few new users and
the old ones have thrown up their hands in disgust and left. Therefore, the
extremists have failed to keep the flame alive. Now you are recommending a
marketing campaign that YOU know, I know, BBX knows, we ALL know, is
ridiculous!



"hyubso" wrote in message
news:3F1E07B6.3070500@prodigy.net...
> that's one way geos could be marketed.. in one of those envelopes.
> with no manuals.. selling for $19.95.
>
> hey, ms office without access has basically the same functionality as
> geowrite and geodraw and geocalc
>
>
>
> Pat wrote:
> > Micirosoft has a special Office XP package without Access for $149 and
I've
> > seen it at Walmart. Its packaged as a laminated envelope that can be
> > displayed on a peg board where the seller can rack several in very
little
> > space.
> >
> >
> > "T
>

In news:OdjH/oHpvWHT092yn@visi.com,
Richard Steiner wrote:
| Here in comp.os.geos.misc,
| gwrepray@aol.com (Ray Kopczynski) spake unto us, saying:
|
|| << and I like the way that you can configure it so the "pop up" ad
|| windows open in the background on a tab, instead of in a full window
|| on top of the one you're reading. >>
||
|| Tom -- Why would you want any pop-up "ad" to open at all??
|
| Some pop-up windows are not ads, but rather are part of the web site's
| actual content. A poor design, IMO, and a relatively rare thing in my
| surfing experience, but there ya go...


And some sites fritz out on you if you disable the pop-ups. Granted, I'm
not on big commercial sites very often, but so many sites now have mini
pop-up windows. It's annoying. Not a major deal, just annoying. But I
was impressed that Opera let you allow the windows to pop up as a "tab"
in your current window (much like a tabbed worksheet in Excel or Lotus),
so your surfing experience isn't marred by an ad for an overpriced
camera in the middle of the pic of Heidi Klum or Halle Berry or
whatever.

Tom

In news:3F1E07B6.3070500@prodigy.net,
hyubso wrote:
| that's one way geos could be marketed.. in one of those envelopes.
| with no manuals.. selling for $19.95.
|
| hey, ms office without access has basically the same functionality as
| geowrite and geodraw and geocalc

Hy, I'm sure that this is one of those reflexive, knee-jerk "MS is
evil!" reactions, because I can't believe that you're suggesting that
Excel and PowerPoint are in the same class as GeoCalc and GeoDraw, or
that GeoWorks provides anything even *close* to the functionality of
Office - even the most basic Office bundle is incredibly powerful. How
did I ever get anything done without VBA?

Here's a macro that I updated in Excel just yesterday:

Private Sub Worksheet_BeforeDoubleClick(ByVal Target As Excel.Range,
Cancel As Boolean)
Call Click_Re_Quote
End Sub

Private Sub Click_Re_Quote()
' Runs the Re-Quote macro with a double click
' Turn on Worksheet BeforeDoubleClick Property

msg = "This will copy your old estimate from the DATA sheet to the
MAIN sheet." & vbCrLf & vbCrLf
msg = msg & "It will clear the old estimate in the MAIN sheet" &
vbCrLf & vbCrLf
msg = msg & " and insert today's date for a new estimate." & vbCrLf
& vbCrLf
msg = msg & "Make sure you save your existing estimate."
ans = MsgBox(msg, vbOKCancel + vbQuestion, "Are you sure you want to
do this?")
If ans <> vbOK Then Exit Sub

With Application
.ScreenUpdating = False
.Calculation = xlCalculationManual
End With
ActiveCell.Rows("1:1").EntireRow.Select
Selection.Copy
Worksheets("Main").Activate
With Application
.Range("B1").Activate
.ActiveCell.Select
.Selection.PasteSpecial Paste:=xlValues, Operation:=xlNone,
SkipBlanks:=False _
, Transpose:=True
.CutCopyMode = False
.ScreenUpdating = True
.Range("B1").Select
.Calculation = xlCalculationAutomatic
End With
Worksheets("Data").Activate
Application.CutCopyMode = False
Worksheets("Main").Activate

With Application
.Range("B5").Activate
.ActiveCell.Select
ActiveCell.FormulaR1C1 = "=TODAY()"
ActiveCell.Copy
ActiveCell.PasteSpecial Paste:=xlValues
.Range("B1").Activate
Application.CutCopyMode = False

End With

Exit Sub 'Oops

End Sub

(Yeah, I know, it could be streamlined, but I don't spend enough tiome
working with VBA on a daily basis, so I just hammer out what I need
sometimes. )

Oh, wait - you can't do this in GeoCalc, can you? This macro belongs in
a multi-page spreadsheet, and allows a user to double-click in a row of
one sheet (this sheet is used as a *database*, btw) and it copies the
info over to a calculation sheet, transposing the row into a column and
popping the current date into the appropriate cell. It's used for
pricing in manufacturing, but I've used variations of this sheet for a
number of other things.

In fact, GeoBase, or NewDex, or whatever you call it, is simply a
flat-file db, and is no different from a large Excel spreadsheet. These
macros have made this Excel db very easy for my cow-orkers and employees
to use. I had something similar that I had built in GeoCalc, and then
moved to MS Works. Guess what? My Excel sheets are so much better that
they're not even in the same class. I have Access, but haven't really
attempted anything useful. OTOH, the ability to pull even flat-file data
into a spreadsheet automatically, and then update just some quantities
and vendor pricing and have a spreadsheet spit back a price, copy the
update back to the database sheet, and print out one of several
varieties of formatted price estimates for the customer is pretty darn
slick, wouldn't you say?

Now if you had said that MS Works give you the same functionality, then
you'd be much closer to the truth. And actually, the old DOS version had
a macro (actually, a keystroke) recorder that went missing during the
switch to Win3. BTW, the above VBA routine was not done as recorded
keystrokes, which is all you'd be allowed in GW (with the add-on utility
that Bob complained about in another thread).

Any comment on all this, Hy?

Tom

Free is good.


"Tom Accuosti" wrote in message
news:_IyTa.18274$Mc.1391152@newsread1.prod.itd.ear thlink.net...
> In news:lJlTa.67436$3o3.4500503@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net,
> Pat wrote:
> | Micirosoft has a special Office XP package without Access for $149
> | and I've seen it at Walmart. Its packaged as a laminated envelope
> | that can be displayed on a peg board where the seller can rack
> | several in very little space.
> |
>
> I had wanted to make the point that one could replace the simpler MS
> Office apps inexpensively. $149 is inexpensive for some people, but
> "free" (Open Office or StarOffice) and $29 (Lotus Smart Suite) are
> within anybody's price range.
>
> Tom
>
>

<< The courts were following up on the bogus Justice Department witch trial of
Microsoft. >>

ROFL! This surely is the pot calling the kettle black vis-a-vis perceived bias
from us Geos folks!

<< Back to the original point I made. AT&T had a monopoly. What was your
option? >>

Starting/creating your own phone company from scratch - running the wires, etc.
You would have the same insurmountable problems facing any "startup"
operating-system creator today...

<< Are you going to put WIndows in the same category as that? >>

Bingo!

Ray

<< These macros have made this Excel db very easy for my cow-orkers and
employees to use. >>

"cow-workers" -- A freudian slip no doubt... :-)

Ray