Re: Living in the past - GEOS

This is a discussion on Re: Living in the past - GEOS ; All that bloat? LOL! What you call bloat is an Operating System that does it all from soup to dessert. Yum! Yum! As far as GEOS doing all that one would need, I am going to disprove it. Its my ...

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Thread: Re: Living in the past

  1. Re: Living in the past

    All that bloat? LOL! What you call bloat is an Operating System that does it
    all from soup to dessert. Yum! Yum! As far as GEOS doing all that one would
    need, I am going to disprove it. Its my Pepsi challenge. Yup, I'm
    resurrecting it.

    Live with only DOS (or facsimile) along with GEOS, and screw Windows, you
    don't need it. Right?

    Then again, I think some softwtare engineers will need Windows if they want
    to compile the GEOS OS system itself. And you'll need it for real
    comprehensive Internet access, since Skipper is a bit water logged, and we
    can go on and on about that silly bloat thing. Given that memory is being
    given away at Office Max this week, with free memory after rebates.

    Here's bloat for you. I have 512MB on a 1.4GHz system and the only time I
    feel burdened is when I am doing flat out cpu intensive calculations, at the
    same time as I have several other jobs executing. The OS handles it ALL with
    no problems, no aborts, no need to tweak an INI file or Config.sys or
    Autoexec.bat. Let me assume that your reply will be that no GEOS user would
    want to do that. I say, Nuts! Most of the GEOS fans have since fled the
    scene and don't want to return, ever. How many of those original GEOS reps
    from AOL are regularly participating in COGM? the ones I knew have lost any
    memory of their GEOS involvement. There's advertising for product appeal for
    you.

    There isn't one thing in GEOS that would entice me to load and use it. If
    GEOS apps were that mush better than Windows or Linux or Mac apps, people
    would know about it through word of mouth. But its not and the old P T
    Barnum adage applies here!












    "C BLANK II" wrote in message
    news:20030626023049.09634.00001105@mb-m21.aol.com...
    > ***It can never be marketed successfully unless it has a vast improvement

    in
    > its suite of drivers. With the exception of a niche market of users who

    have
    > old equipment. And that brings us back to where we started. GEOS is great
    > for the old platform, which was contemporary around the early '90s.
    > ***
    >
    > Pat, GEOS on a new system is just fine too for what I do and what many

    others
    > do too. All that hardware is needed for all the bloated Windows files to

    load.
    > My sleak GEOS DRAW loads in a few seconds. My Windows COREL DRAW or

    PHOTOPAINT
    > takes about 40 seconds. Fortunately I mostly use GEOS.
    >
    >
    > Chip Blank
    > GUI
    > GeoGrafix
    >
    > The GEOS Users International website is at:
    > http://hometown.aol.com/GUIUSA/GUI_USA.html




  2. Re: Living in the past

    hey, I bought tha memeory.. last month.. got my rebates this week..
    bought the same offer this month.. hopefully next month i iwll get my
    rebates for this months purchase..

    that is a lot of free ram


    now if only office max would start giving out free tech support , free
    windows installation, free software troubleshooting, and free hardware
    repairs.. all after rebate of course, that would be great!

    and ensemble lite still runs on my athlon 2000+ with 756mb of ram..
    amazing for an obsolete, out of date product..





    Pat wrote:
    >Given that memory is being
    > given away at Office Max this week, with free memory after rebates.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >



  3. Re: Living in the past

    The reason for the deal is because we are shifting again. remember SDRAM
    memory? I have some in this PC but its now out of date for all the new
    motherboards that are using cheaper chipsets and memory parts. The
    manufacturing costs drive the prices DOWN!



    "hyubso" wrote in message
    news:3EFBAE2C.7080902@prodigy.net...
    > hey, I bought tha memeory.. last month.. got my rebates this week..
    > bought the same offer this month.. hopefully next month i iwll get my
    > rebates for this months purchase..
    >
    > that is a lot of free ram
    >
    >
    > now if only office max would start giving out free tech support , free
    > windows installation, free software troubleshooting, and free hardware
    > repairs.. all after rebate of course, that would be great!
    >
    > and ensemble lite still runs on my athlon 2000+ with 756mb of ram..
    > amazing for an obsolete, out of date product..
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Pat wrote:
    > >Given that memory is being
    > > given away at Office Max this week, with free memory after rebates.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >

    >




  4. Re: Living in the past

    You've gotten a Porsche to drive down an old dirt road that has a top speed
    of 15 MPH.

    "hyubso" wrote in message
    news:3EFBAE2C.7080902@prodigy.net...
    > hey, I bought tha memeory.. last month.. got my rebates this week..
    > bought the same offer this month.. hopefully next month i iwll get my
    > rebates for this months purchase..
    >
    > that is a lot of free ram
    >
    >
    > now if only office max would start giving out free tech support , free
    > windows installation, free software troubleshooting, and free hardware
    > repairs.. all after rebate of course, that would be great!
    >
    > and ensemble lite still runs on my athlon 2000+ with 756mb of ram..
    > amazing for an obsolete, out of date product..
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Pat wrote:
    > >Given that memory is being
    > > given away at Office Max this week, with free memory after rebates.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >

    >




  5. Re: Living in the past


    "hyubso" wrote in message
    news:3EFBAE2C.7080902@prodigy.net...
    > and ensemble lite still runs on my athlon 2000+ with 756mb of ram..
    > amazing for an obsolete, out of date product..


    Just another amazingly stupid comment. DOS is also outta date but will run
    purrfectly on that same PC. Ensemble is sadly outta also. What's your point?
    (Except for the 1 on top of 'yer head?)



  6. Re: Living in the past

    Crappy PC100/133 SDRAM? Yeah that junk is dirt cheap.

    "hyubso" wrote in message
    news:3EFBAE2C.7080902@prodigy.net...
    > hey, I bought tha memeory.. last month.. got my rebates this week..
    > bought the same offer this month.. hopefully next month i iwll get my
    > rebates for this months purchase..
    >
    > that is a lot of free ram
    >
    >
    > now if only office max would start giving out free tech support , free
    > windows installation, free software troubleshooting, and free hardware
    > repairs.. all after rebate of course, that would be great!
    >
    > and ensemble lite still runs on my athlon 2000+ with 756mb of ram..
    > amazing for an obsolete, out of date product..
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Pat wrote:
    > >Given that memory is being
    > > given away at Office Max this week, with free memory after rebates.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >

    >




  7. Re: Living in the past

    why is it junk?? pc133 sdram is just fine.. you really cannot tell a
    difference in performance while running juat about any windows or geos
    program.. and even thoug i got ddr, it still hardly shows any
    performce like what i get on my gpc, which boots instantly.. something
    windows can't seem to ever do.




    Bob wrote:
    > Crappy PC100/133 SDRAM? Yeah that junk is dirt cheap.
    >
    > "hyubso" wrote in message
    > news:3EFBAE2C.7080902@prodigy.net...
    >
    >>hey, I bought tha memeory.. last month.. got my rebates this week..
    >>bought the same offer this month.. hopefully next month i iwll get my
    >>rebates for this months purchase..
    >>
    >>that is a lot of free ram
    >>
    >>
    >>now if only office max would start giving out free tech support , free
    >>windows installation, free software troubleshooting, and free hardware
    >>repairs.. all after rebate of course, that would be great!
    >>
    >>and ensemble lite still runs on my athlon 2000+ with 756mb of ram..
    >>amazing for an obsolete, out of date product..
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>Pat wrote:
    >>
    >>>Given that memory is being
    >>>given away at Office Max this week, with free memory after rebates.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>

    >>

    >
    >



  8. Re: Living in the past

    It's WP is sorely lacking any advanced features or even simple ones like
    tables. The "spreadsheet" has the same problems the web browser is a joke,
    and email is totally unreliable.

    "hyubso" wrote in message
    news:3EFD3E97.3040403@prodigy.net...
    > what makes ensemble out of date?? is word processing, spreadsheeting,
    > graphic design, web access, email and newsgroup reading out of date??
    >
    >
    >
    > Bob wrote:
    > > "hyubso" wrote in message
    > > news:3EFBAE2C.7080902@prodigy.net...
    > >
    > >>and ensemble lite still runs on my athlon 2000+ with 756mb of ram..
    > >>amazing for an obsolete, out of date product..

    > >
    > >
    > > Just another amazingly stupid comment. DOS is also outta date but will

    run
    > > purrfectly on that same PC. Ensemble is sadly outta also. What's your

    point?
    > > (Except for the 1 on top of 'yer head?)
    > >
    > >

    >




  9. Re: Living in the past

    if u can't tell the difference I'm not surprised!

    "hyubso" wrote in message
    news:3EFD3EFF.1000906@prodigy.net...
    > why is it junk?? pc133 sdram is just fine.. you really cannot tell a
    > difference in performance while running juat about any windows or geos
    > program.. and even thoug i got ddr, it still hardly shows any
    > performce like what i get on my gpc, which boots instantly.. something
    > windows can't seem to ever do.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Bob wrote:
    > > Crappy PC100/133 SDRAM? Yeah that junk is dirt cheap.
    > >
    > > "hyubso" wrote in message
    > > news:3EFBAE2C.7080902@prodigy.net...
    > >
    > >>hey, I bought tha memeory.. last month.. got my rebates this week..
    > >>bought the same offer this month.. hopefully next month i iwll get my
    > >>rebates for this months purchase..
    > >>
    > >>that is a lot of free ram
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>now if only office max would start giving out free tech support , free
    > >>windows installation, free software troubleshooting, and free hardware
    > >>repairs.. all after rebate of course, that would be great!
    > >>
    > >>and ensemble lite still runs on my athlon 2000+ with 756mb of ram..
    > >>amazing for an obsolete, out of date product..
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>Pat wrote:
    > >>
    > >>>Given that memory is being
    > >>>given away at Office Max this week, with free memory after rebates.
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>

    > >
    > >

    >




  10. Re: Living in the past

    <<...it still hardly shows any performce like what i get on my gpc, which boots
    instantly.. something windows can't seem to ever do. >>

    Actually, the GPC is not "booting" via the On/Off button on front. That
    happens only from a power-off/"Shutdown" state via the big switch on the back
    of the machine. That "instantly (on)" mode is simply coming out of the last
    saved "state" of the system when it goes into a "suspend" mode via that switch
    on the front - that takes about 2-3 seconds to "kick in" again when you turn it
    back "on." That's why you can leave a Writer file open, turn it "Off" from the
    front, and have it come right back to where you left it -- hours later. I agree
    that it sure seems like an intant boot. :-) Similar to the "instant on" TV's,
    etc.

    Ray



  11. Re: Living in the past

    Supply and Demand are always at work in determining pricing.

    But the sweet spot is what governs the general pricing on memory from the
    manufacturing point of view.

    Sweet Spot = What memory types the manufacturers are tooled up for, to crank
    out in large quantities, at the lowest per unit price. Not too long ago, it
    was DRAM in 72-pin SIMM packaging. Then it changed to SDRAM in DIMM
    packaging. Now DDR-SDRAM, and that's also changing as the mobo Front-Side
    Bus speeds ramps up to 800MHz and higher (overclocked version of 1200MHz has
    been announced). Why? Apple is going that route, Sun is going that route,
    IBM is going that route. Its engineering trying to ring-out bottlenecks in
    design and memory bus speeds definitely slow down the coupling between CPU
    and memory access. Cache is like a band-aid to help alleviate the problem
    but the better solution is to make the highways bigger and faster.

    The reason for the speed is not to help GeoWrite or Word be quicker but its
    for Networking and Video.

    For one, Gigabit Ethernet absolutely requires a faster bus than what existed
    up until now. This is all well documented and every engineer knows the math
    involved. Also, Video is helped and large database arrays are helped. There
    are many other bus related bottleneck scenarios that are helped.

    The above apps are too esoteric for a GeoWrite or Word user. But those apps
    aren't what determines the advancement in speed. The engineers don't say
    "You know CBLANKII and HYUBSO are on to something, we don't need all this
    speed for GeoWrite". They say, lets engineer one size that fits all and
    offer it at a price point that is competitive with all the old stuff, that
    we will replace with the new stuff.

    Bottom Line: If your needs are modest, then by all means buy products that
    fit your modest needs. But, be warned that the definition of what is modest
    is a moving target and Bob can relate to quantity pricing on PCs, and what
    modest (a relative term as it applies to a PC) offers you today vs. one year
    ago, or five years ago!



    "hyubso" wrote in message
    news:3EFC7326.7070404@prodigy.net...
    > i htink prices are down due to market saturation.. if they could
    > command higher prices and get them, they would charge them! these
    > businesses are not charities..
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Pat wrote:
    > > The reason for the deal is because we are shifting again. remember SDRAM
    > > memory? I have some in this PC but its now out of date for all the new
    > > motherboards that are using cheaper chipsets and memory parts. The
    > > manufacturing costs drive the prices DOWN!
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > "hyubso" wrote in message
    > > news:3EFBAE2C.7080902@prodigy.net...
    > >
    > >>hey, I bought tha memeory.. last month.. got my rebates this week..
    > >>bought the same offer this month.. hopefully next month i iwll get my
    > >>rebates for this months purchase..
    > >>
    > >>that is a lot of free ram
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>now if only office max would start giving out free tech support , free
    > >>windows installation, free software troubleshooting, and free hardware
    > >>repairs.. all after rebate of course, that would be great!
    > >>
    > >>and ensemble lite still runs on my athlon 2000+ with 756mb of ram..
    > >>amazing for an obsolete, out of date product..
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>Pat wrote:
    > >>
    > >>>Given that memory is being
    > >>>given away at Office Max this week, with free memory after rebates.
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>

    > >
    > >

    >




  12. Re: Living in the past

    no one needs any of this speed anymore at this point in time...
    computers are fast enough as stand alone devices...but progress is
    progress and it is nice to have faster newer stuff as long as you can
    afford it...

    what people really need in "first world" countries is faster online
    access into every home.. it is the last mile that is the bottleneck. 56
    k modems should be obsoleted just like 14.4 modems were...





    Pat wrote:
    > Supply and Demand are always at work in determining pricing.
    >
    > But the sweet spot is what governs the general pricing on memory from the
    > manufacturing point of view.
    >
    > Sweet Spot = What memory types the manufacturers are tooled up for, to crank
    > out in large quantities, at the lowest per unit price. Not too long ago, it
    > was DRAM in 72-pin SIMM packaging. Then it changed to SDRAM in DIMM
    > packaging. Now DDR-SDRAM, and that's also changing as the mobo Front-Side
    > Bus speeds ramps up to 800MHz and higher (overclocked version of 1200MHz has
    > been announced). Why? Apple is going that route, Sun is going that route,
    > IBM is going that route. Its engineering trying to ring-out bottlenecks in
    > design and memory bus speeds definitely slow down the coupling between CPU
    > and memory access. Cache is like a band-aid to help alleviate the problem
    > but the better solution is to make the highways bigger and faster.
    >
    > The reason for the speed is not to help GeoWrite or Word be quicker but its
    > for Networking and Video.
    >



  13. Re: Living in the past

    hey, i knew that all along, but the perception of speed is what
    counts.. when my windwos goes to sleep, so doe sthe hard drive adn when
    it wakes up, it has to wake the hard drive adn then load the screen..
    much slower process on my athlon 2000+ than with geos on the gpc.



    Ray Kopczynski wrote:
    > <<...it still hardly shows any performce like what i get on my gpc, which boots
    > instantly.. something windows can't seem to ever do. >>
    >
    > Actually, the GPC is not "booting" via the On/Off button on front. That
    > happens only from a power-off/"Shutdown" state via the big switch on the back
    > of the machine. That "instantly (on)" mode is simply coming out of the last
    > saved "state" of the system when it goes into a "suspend" mode via that switch
    > on the front - that takes about 2-3 seconds to "kick in" again when you turn it
    > back "on." That's why you can leave a Writer file open, turn it "Off" from the
    > front, and have it come right back to where you left it -- hours later. I agree
    > that it sure seems like an intant boot. :-) Similar to the "instant on" TV's,
    > etc.
    >
    > Ray
    >
    >



  14. Re: Living in the past

    WGAF when the last time you needed tables was? LOT's of users need tables
    and it would be better to have the functionality and not use it then need it
    and not have it. With mentality such as yours it is no wonder GEOS is a has
    been. Plus, why is that feature ALWAYS on every "wish-list" I've ever seen
    for add on features for GEOS? ANSWER that Chip-a-roo-dee-doo-dee? Answer
    why tables are always on GEOS' "wish-list".

    "C BLANK II" wrote in message
    news:20030628155536.21108.00001042@mb-m20.aol.com...
    > ***Subject: Re: Living in the past
    > From: "Bob"
    > Date: Sat, Jun 28, 2003 09:04 EDT
    > Message-id:
    >
    > It's WP is sorely lacking any advanced features or even simple ones like
    > tables. The "spreadsheet" has the same problems the web browser is a joke,
    > and email is totally unreliable.
    > ***
    >
    > Let's see...the last time I needed a tables feature was 'never'. Likewise

    with
    > so many other bells and whistles. The average office apps user does not

    use
    > even what GEOS offers in full, with the exception of macros. GEOS offers

    plenty
    > for a great many computer users.
    >
    >
    > Chip Blank
    > GUI
    > GeoGrafix
    >
    > The GEOS Users International website is at:
    > http://hometown.aol.com/GUIUSA/GUI_USA.html




  15. Re: Living in the past

    "hyubso" wrote in message
    news:3EFDD9E2.7020703@prodigy.net...

    > no one needs any of this speed anymore at this point in time...


    I need it. Why do I need it? I am doing MPEG-2 Encodes of 2 hour videos that
    can take 15 hours of processing time for a Multi-Pass with Variable Bitrate.
    That means I have to WAIT 15 hours to check my results and keep it or toss
    it.

    Am I the only one with this need? There are many users out there. Check this
    out:

    http://forum.doom9.net/

    All these people need the speed and disk space. My last capture of a Digital
    Video created a single one-hour video that was a 12.5GB file. The best Video
    and Audio applications will not run on Windows 98 and require Windows XP
    with 512MB considered entry level. Some of these people have 1GB of memory,
    and even higher.

    Who are these users? You'd be surprised how many novices are trying to learn
    but there are all levels and it ranges from hobby to professionals and
    engineers. With all the consumer, prosumer, and pro camcorders out there,
    more users are capturing their videos and authoring them onto VCD, SVCD, and
    DVDs.

    > computers are fast enough as stand alone devices...but progress is
    > progress and it is nice to have faster newer stuff as long as you can
    > afford it...


    Remember when Intel came out with its first 1GHz processor? It seemed like
    the speed war was back on the front burner with AMD. Then, the P4 broke
    through 2GHz and now you can get a 2GHz PC for one-third the cost of a 386
    PC 12 years ago. As the speeds climbed to 3GHz, it seemed it would keep
    escalating forever. But that has not happened. The CPU speeds have peeked at
    around 3GHz and Intel is opting to spend time re-engineering the Front-Side
    Bus speeds so that memory access will be vastly improved with delays
    falling. So we are taking a break in the processor speed war to fix the
    Memory to CPU bottleneck problem. During this period, the cost of over 2GHz
    PCs will come down further. The end result will be a vast improvement in the
    average PC handling complex and difficult applications. Not too many years
    ago, you needed a Silicon Graphics workstation to do what is now reachable
    to a wider audience.

    Who benefits:

    (1) Networkers (ie. Gigabit Ethernet)
    (2) Multimedia Applications (eg. MPEG compression algorithms)
    (3) Database Access
    (4) Gamers

    The above includes a lot of users, especially if you have read Variety
    recently where Games is a huge money makers and game revenues exceeds movie
    box office revenues in the US.

    > what people really need in "first world" countries is faster online
    > access into every home.. it is the last mile that is the bottleneck. 56
    > k modems should be obsoleted just like 14.4 modems were...


    I can't disagree that its what the majority wants. But its not the only hot
    item on most hot item lists!


    > Pat wrote:
    > > Supply and Demand are always at work in determining pricing.
    > >
    > > But the sweet spot is what governs the general pricing on memory from

    the
    > > manufacturing point of view.
    > >
    > > Sweet Spot = What memory types the manufacturers are tooled up for, to

    crank
    > > out in large quantities, at the lowest per unit price. Not too long ago,

    it
    > > was DRAM in 72-pin SIMM packaging. Then it changed to SDRAM in DIMM
    > > packaging. Now DDR-SDRAM, and that's also changing as the mobo

    Front-Side
    > > Bus speeds ramps up to 800MHz and higher (overclocked version of 1200MHz

    has
    > > been announced). Why? Apple is going that route, Sun is going that

    route,
    > > IBM is going that route. Its engineering trying to ring-out bottlenecks

    in
    > > design and memory bus speeds definitely slow down the coupling between

    CPU
    > > and memory access. Cache is like a band-aid to help alleviate the

    problem
    > > but the better solution is to make the highways bigger and faster.
    > >
    > > The reason for the speed is not to help GeoWrite or Word be quicker but

    its
    > > for Networking and Video.
    > >

    >




  16. Re: Living in the past

    Your not the only one. I have VHS tapes I turn into AVI then MPEG and onto
    VCD. I also do a ton of multi-track recording. Speed is a very good thing.
    Tons of hard drive space is a very good thing. Ton's of RAM is a very good
    thing.

    "Pat" wrote in message
    news:z%pLa.26116$3o3.1997919@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
    > "hyubso" wrote in message
    > news:3EFDD9E2.7020703@prodigy.net...
    >
    > > no one needs any of this speed anymore at this point in time...

    >
    > I need it. Why do I need it? I am doing MPEG-2 Encodes of 2 hour videos

    that
    > can take 15 hours of processing time for a Multi-Pass with Variable

    Bitrate.
    > That means I have to WAIT 15 hours to check my results and keep it or toss
    > it.
    >
    > Am I the only one with this need? There are many users out there. Check

    this
    > out:
    >
    > http://forum.doom9.net/
    >
    > All these people need the speed and disk space. My last capture of a

    Digital
    > Video created a single one-hour video that was a 12.5GB file. The best

    Video
    > and Audio applications will not run on Windows 98 and require Windows XP
    > with 512MB considered entry level. Some of these people have 1GB of

    memory,
    > and even higher.
    >
    > Who are these users? You'd be surprised how many novices are trying to

    learn
    > but there are all levels and it ranges from hobby to professionals and
    > engineers. With all the consumer, prosumer, and pro camcorders out there,
    > more users are capturing their videos and authoring them onto VCD, SVCD,

    and
    > DVDs.
    >
    > > computers are fast enough as stand alone devices...but progress is
    > > progress and it is nice to have faster newer stuff as long as you can
    > > afford it...

    >
    > Remember when Intel came out with its first 1GHz processor? It seemed like
    > the speed war was back on the front burner with AMD. Then, the P4 broke
    > through 2GHz and now you can get a 2GHz PC for one-third the cost of a 386
    > PC 12 years ago. As the speeds climbed to 3GHz, it seemed it would keep
    > escalating forever. But that has not happened. The CPU speeds have peeked

    at
    > around 3GHz and Intel is opting to spend time re-engineering the

    Front-Side
    > Bus speeds so that memory access will be vastly improved with delays
    > falling. So we are taking a break in the processor speed war to fix the
    > Memory to CPU bottleneck problem. During this period, the cost of over

    2GHz
    > PCs will come down further. The end result will be a vast improvement in

    the
    > average PC handling complex and difficult applications. Not too many years
    > ago, you needed a Silicon Graphics workstation to do what is now reachable
    > to a wider audience.
    >
    > Who benefits:
    >
    > (1) Networkers (ie. Gigabit Ethernet)
    > (2) Multimedia Applications (eg. MPEG compression algorithms)
    > (3) Database Access
    > (4) Gamers
    >
    > The above includes a lot of users, especially if you have read Variety
    > recently where Games is a huge money makers and game revenues exceeds

    movie
    > box office revenues in the US.
    >
    > > what people really need in "first world" countries is faster online
    > > access into every home.. it is the last mile that is the bottleneck. 56
    > > k modems should be obsoleted just like 14.4 modems were...

    >
    > I can't disagree that its what the majority wants. But its not the only

    hot
    > item on most hot item lists!
    >
    >
    > > Pat wrote:
    > > > Supply and Demand are always at work in determining pricing.
    > > >
    > > > But the sweet spot is what governs the general pricing on memory from

    > the
    > > > manufacturing point of view.
    > > >
    > > > Sweet Spot = What memory types the manufacturers are tooled up for, to

    > crank
    > > > out in large quantities, at the lowest per unit price. Not too long

    ago,
    > it
    > > > was DRAM in 72-pin SIMM packaging. Then it changed to SDRAM in DIMM
    > > > packaging. Now DDR-SDRAM, and that's also changing as the mobo

    > Front-Side
    > > > Bus speeds ramps up to 800MHz and higher (overclocked version of

    1200MHz
    > has
    > > > been announced). Why? Apple is going that route, Sun is going that

    > route,
    > > > IBM is going that route. Its engineering trying to ring-out

    bottlenecks
    > in
    > > > design and memory bus speeds definitely slow down the coupling between

    > CPU
    > > > and memory access. Cache is like a band-aid to help alleviate the

    > problem
    > > > but the better solution is to make the highways bigger and faster.
    > > >
    > > > The reason for the speed is not to help GeoWrite or Word be quicker

    but
    > its
    > > > for Networking and Video.
    > > >

    > >

    >
    >




  17. Re: Living in the past

    for the uses you a re describing **and in which i am also dabbling***..
    the speed is fine adn for video work ceratinly better than 1ghz adn
    under former powerhouses...

    but the majority of people don't use or want their pcs for video
    compressing... they are not filmmakers, they are not musicians,. they
    are not content bootleggers.. they are passive uers who download pic,
    chat send email, adn do other less cpu intesive tawsks.. that is why
    the industry is hitting a brick wall sales wise.. people don't feel the
    need ot upgrade so often anymore since the pcs they have now are "good
    enough for who its for".







    Bob wrote:
    > Your not the only one. I have VHS tapes I turn into AVI then MPEG and onto
    > VCD. I also do a ton of multi-track recording. Speed is a very good thing.
    > Tons of hard drive space is a very good thing. Ton's of RAM is a very good
    > thing.
    >
    > "Pat" wrote in message
    > news:z%pLa.26116$3o3.1997919@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
    >
    >>"hyubso" wrote in message
    >>news:3EFDD9E2.7020703@prodigy.net...
    >>
    >>
    >>>no one needs any of this speed anymore at this point in time...

    >>
    >>I need it. Why do I need it? I am doing MPEG-2 Encodes of 2 hour videos

    >
    > that
    >
    >>can take 15 hours of processing time for a Multi-Pass with Variable

    >
    > Bitrate.
    >
    >>That means I have to WAIT 15 hours to check my results and keep it or toss
    >>it.
    >>
    >>Am I the only one with this need? There are many users out there. Check

    >
    > this
    >
    >>out:
    >>
    >>http://forum.doom9.net/
    >>
    >>All these people need the speed and disk space. My last capture of a

    >
    > Digital
    >
    >>Video created a single one-hour video that was a 12.5GB file. The best

    >
    > Video
    >
    >>and Audio applications will not run on Windows 98 and require Windows XP
    >>with 512MB considered entry level. Some of these people have 1GB of

    >
    > memory,
    >
    >>and even higher.
    >>
    >>Who are these users? You'd be surprised how many novices are trying to

    >
    > learn
    >
    >>but there are all levels and it ranges from hobby to professionals and
    >>engineers. With all the consumer, prosumer, and pro camcorders out there,
    >>more users are capturing their videos and authoring them onto VCD, SVCD,

    >
    > and
    >
    >>DVDs.
    >>
    >>
    >>>computers are fast enough as stand alone devices...but progress is
    >>>progress and it is nice to have faster newer stuff as long as you can
    >>>afford it...

    >>
    >>Remember when Intel came out with its first 1GHz processor? It seemed like
    >>the speed war was back on the front burner with AMD. Then, the P4 broke
    >>through 2GHz and now you can get a 2GHz PC for one-third the cost of a 386
    >>PC 12 years ago. As the speeds climbed to 3GHz, it seemed it would keep
    >>escalating forever. But that has not happened. The CPU speeds have peeked

    >
    > at
    >
    >>around 3GHz and Intel is opting to spend time re-engineering the

    >
    > Front-Side
    >
    >>Bus speeds so that memory access will be vastly improved with delays
    >>falling. So we are taking a break in the processor speed war to fix the
    >>Memory to CPU bottleneck problem. During this period, the cost of over

    >
    > 2GHz
    >
    >>PCs will come down further. The end result will be a vast improvement in

    >
    > the
    >
    >>average PC handling complex and difficult applications. Not too many years
    >>ago, you needed a Silicon Graphics workstation to do what is now reachable
    >>to a wider audience.
    >>
    >>Who benefits:
    >>
    >>(1) Networkers (ie. Gigabit Ethernet)
    >>(2) Multimedia Applications (eg. MPEG compression algorithms)
    >>(3) Database Access
    >>(4) Gamers
    >>
    >>The above includes a lot of users, especially if you have read Variety
    >>recently where Games is a huge money makers and game revenues exceeds

    >
    > movie
    >
    >>box office revenues in the US.
    >>
    >>
    >>> what people really need in "first world" countries is faster online
    >>>access into every home.. it is the last mile that is the bottleneck. 56
    >>>k modems should be obsoleted just like 14.4 modems were...

    >>
    >>I can't disagree that its what the majority wants. But its not the only

    >
    > hot
    >
    >>item on most hot item lists!
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>>Pat wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>Supply and Demand are always at work in determining pricing.
    >>>>
    >>>>But the sweet spot is what governs the general pricing on memory from
    >>>

    >>the
    >>
    >>>>manufacturing point of view.
    >>>>
    >>>>Sweet Spot = What memory types the manufacturers are tooled up for, to
    >>>

    >>crank
    >>
    >>>>out in large quantities, at the lowest per unit price. Not too long
    >>>

    > ago,
    >
    >>it
    >>
    >>>>was DRAM in 72-pin SIMM packaging. Then it changed to SDRAM in DIMM
    >>>>packaging. Now DDR-SDRAM, and that's also changing as the mobo
    >>>

    >>Front-Side
    >>
    >>>>Bus speeds ramps up to 800MHz and higher (overclocked version of
    >>>

    > 1200MHz
    >
    >>has
    >>
    >>>>been announced). Why? Apple is going that route, Sun is going that
    >>>

    >>route,
    >>
    >>>>IBM is going that route. Its engineering trying to ring-out
    >>>

    > bottlenecks
    >
    >>in
    >>
    >>>>design and memory bus speeds definitely slow down the coupling between
    >>>

    >>CPU
    >>
    >>>>and memory access. Cache is like a band-aid to help alleviate the
    >>>

    >>problem
    >>
    >>>>but the better solution is to make the highways bigger and faster.
    >>>>
    >>>>The reason for the speed is not to help GeoWrite or Word be quicker
    >>>

    > but
    >
    >>its
    >>
    >>>>for Networking and Video.
    >>>>
    >>>

    >>

    >
    >



  18. Re: Living in the past

    Yeah, in this, I agree with you!

    BR,
    Hans

    hyubso wrote:
    > for the uses you a re describing **and in which i am also dabbling***..
    > the speed is fine adn for video work ceratinly better than 1ghz adn
    > under former powerhouses...
    >
    > but the majority of people don't use or want their pcs for video
    > compressing... they are not filmmakers, they are not musicians,. they
    > are not content bootleggers.. they are passive uers who download pic,
    > chat send email, adn do other less cpu intesive tawsks.. that is why
    > the industry is hitting a brick wall sales wise.. people don't feel the
    > need ot upgrade so often anymore since the pcs they have now are "good
    > enough for who its for".
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Bob wrote:
    > > Your not the only one. I have VHS tapes I turn into AVI then MPEG and

    onto
    > > VCD. I also do a ton of multi-track recording. Speed is a very good

    thing.
    > > Tons of hard drive space is a very good thing. Ton's of RAM is a very

    good
    > > thing.
    > >
    > > "Pat" wrote in message
    > > news:z%pLa.26116$3o3.1997919@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
    > >
    > >>"hyubso" wrote in message
    > >>news:3EFDD9E2.7020703@prodigy.net...
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>>no one needs any of this speed anymore at this point in time...
    > >>
    > >>I need it. Why do I need it? I am doing MPEG-2 Encodes of 2 hour videos

    > >
    > > that
    > >
    > >>can take 15 hours of processing time for a Multi-Pass with Variable

    > >
    > > Bitrate.
    > >
    > >>That means I have to WAIT 15 hours to check my results and keep it or

    toss
    > >>it.
    > >>
    > >>Am I the only one with this need? There are many users out there. Check

    > >
    > > this
    > >
    > >>out:
    > >>
    > >>http://forum.doom9.net/
    > >>
    > >>All these people need the speed and disk space. My last capture of a

    > >
    > > Digital
    > >
    > >>Video created a single one-hour video that was a 12.5GB file. The best

    > >
    > > Video
    > >
    > >>and Audio applications will not run on Windows 98 and require Windows

    XP
    > >>with 512MB considered entry level. Some of these people have 1GB of

    > >
    > > memory,
    > >
    > >>and even higher.
    > >>
    > >>Who are these users? You'd be surprised how many novices are trying

    to
    > >
    > > learn
    > >
    > >>but there are all levels and it ranges from hobby to professionals and
    > >>engineers. With all the consumer, prosumer, and pro camcorders out there,
    > >>more users are capturing their videos and authoring them onto VCD, SVCD,

    > >
    > > and
    > >
    > >>DVDs.
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>>computers are fast enough as stand alone devices...but progress is
    > >>>progress and it is nice to have faster newer stuff as long as you can
    > >>>afford it...
    > >>
    > >>Remember when Intel came out with its first 1GHz processor? It seemed

    like
    > >>the speed war was back on the front burner with AMD. Then, the P4 broke
    > >>through 2GHz and now you can get a 2GHz PC for one-third the cost of

    a 386
    > >>PC 12 years ago. As the speeds climbed to 3GHz, it seemed it would keep
    > >>escalating forever. But that has not happened. The CPU speeds have peeked

    > >
    > > at
    > >
    > >>around 3GHz and Intel is opting to spend time re-engineering the

    > >
    > > Front-Side
    > >
    > >>Bus speeds so that memory access will be vastly improved with delays
    > >>falling. So we are taking a break in the processor speed war to fix

    the
    > >>Memory to CPU bottleneck problem. During this period, the cost of over

    > >
    > > 2GHz
    > >
    > >>PCs will come down further. The end result will be a vast improvement

    in
    > >
    > > the
    > >
    > >>average PC handling complex and difficult applications. Not too many

    years
    > >>ago, you needed a Silicon Graphics workstation to do what is now reachable
    > >>to a wider audience.
    > >>
    > >>Who benefits:
    > >>
    > >>(1) Networkers (ie. Gigabit Ethernet)
    > >>(2) Multimedia Applications (eg. MPEG compression algorithms)
    > >>(3) Database Access
    > >>(4) Gamers
    > >>
    > >>The above includes a lot of users, especially if you have read Variety
    > >>recently where Games is a huge money makers and game revenues exceeds

    > >
    > > movie
    > >
    > >>box office revenues in the US.
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>> what people really need in "first world" countries is faster online
    > >>>access into every home.. it is the last mile that is the bottleneck.

    56
    > >>>k modems should be obsoleted just like 14.4 modems were...
    > >>
    > >>I can't disagree that its what the majority wants. But its not the only

    > >
    > > hot
    > >
    > >>item on most hot item lists!
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>>Pat wrote:
    > >>>
    > >>>>Supply and Demand are always at work in determining pricing.
    > >>>>
    > >>>>But the sweet spot is what governs the general pricing on memory from
    > >>>
    > >>the
    > >>
    > >>>>manufacturing point of view.
    > >>>>
    > >>>>Sweet Spot = What memory types the manufacturers are tooled up for,

    to
    > >>>
    > >>crank
    > >>
    > >>>>out in large quantities, at the lowest per unit price. Not too long
    > >>>

    > > ago,
    > >
    > >>it
    > >>
    > >>>>was DRAM in 72-pin SIMM packaging. Then it changed to SDRAM in DIMM
    > >>>>packaging. Now DDR-SDRAM, and that's also changing as the mobo
    > >>>
    > >>Front-Side
    > >>
    > >>>>Bus speeds ramps up to 800MHz and higher (overclocked version of
    > >>>

    > > 1200MHz
    > >
    > >>has
    > >>
    > >>>>been announced). Why? Apple is going that route, Sun is going that
    > >>>
    > >>route,
    > >>
    > >>>>IBM is going that route. Its engineering trying to ring-out
    > >>>

    > > bottlenecks
    > >
    > >>in
    > >>
    > >>>>design and memory bus speeds definitely slow down the coupling between
    > >>>
    > >>CPU
    > >>
    > >>>>and memory access. Cache is like a band-aid to help alleviate the
    > >>>
    > >>problem
    > >>
    > >>>>but the better solution is to make the highways bigger and faster.
    > >>>>
    > >>>>The reason for the speed is not to help GeoWrite or Word be quicker
    > >>>

    > > but
    > >
    > >>its
    > >>
    > >>>>for Networking and Video.
    > >>>>
    > >>>
    > >>

    > >
    > >

    >
    >


  19. Re: Living in the past

    Yes, I was amazed when I started discovering how many resources this takes.
    Its not Windows or the PC. This is true on other platforms and Workstations,
    as well. My friend just gave his son a 2.8 GHz Shuttle Cube with 180GB of
    disk space for his gaming. He has two game computers on a Home LAN and an
    X-Box. He and his friends play games side-by-side, and over the broadband
    cable in multi-user mode. These kids are pushing the envelope and building
    some sophisticated nets using cable. Personally, the last game I played from
    beginning to end was Leisure Suit Larry from Sierra. I guess role playing
    games are out of favor now. Everything is shoot 'em up and action!!!!


    "Bob" wrote in message
    news:4trLa.49082$nG.47354@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.ne t...
    > Your not the only one. I have VHS tapes I turn into AVI then MPEG and onto
    > VCD. I also do a ton of multi-track recording. Speed is a very good thing.
    > Tons of hard drive space is a very good thing. Ton's of RAM is a very good
    > thing.
    >
    > "Pat" wrote in message
    > news:z%pLa.26116$3o3.1997919@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
    > > "hyubso" wrote in message
    > > news:3EFDD9E2.7020703@prodigy.net...
    > >
    > > > no one needs any of this speed anymore at this point in time...

    > >
    > > I need it. Why do I need it? I am doing MPEG-2 Encodes of 2 hour videos

    > that
    > > can take 15 hours of processing time for a Multi-Pass with Variable

    > Bitrate.
    > > That means I have to WAIT 15 hours to check my results and keep it or

    toss
    > > it.
    > >
    > > Am I the only one with this need? There are many users out there. Check

    > this
    > > out:
    > >
    > > http://forum.doom9.net/
    > >
    > > All these people need the speed and disk space. My last capture of a

    > Digital
    > > Video created a single one-hour video that was a 12.5GB file. The best

    > Video
    > > and Audio applications will not run on Windows 98 and require Windows XP
    > > with 512MB considered entry level. Some of these people have 1GB of

    > memory,
    > > and even higher.
    > >
    > > Who are these users? You'd be surprised how many novices are trying to

    > learn
    > > but there are all levels and it ranges from hobby to professionals and
    > > engineers. With all the consumer, prosumer, and pro camcorders out

    there,
    > > more users are capturing their videos and authoring them onto VCD, SVCD,

    > and
    > > DVDs.
    > >
    > > > computers are fast enough as stand alone devices...but progress is
    > > > progress and it is nice to have faster newer stuff as long as you can
    > > > afford it...

    > >
    > > Remember when Intel came out with its first 1GHz processor? It seemed

    like
    > > the speed war was back on the front burner with AMD. Then, the P4 broke
    > > through 2GHz and now you can get a 2GHz PC for one-third the cost of a

    386
    > > PC 12 years ago. As the speeds climbed to 3GHz, it seemed it would keep
    > > escalating forever. But that has not happened. The CPU speeds have

    peeked
    > at
    > > around 3GHz and Intel is opting to spend time re-engineering the

    > Front-Side
    > > Bus speeds so that memory access will be vastly improved with delays
    > > falling. So we are taking a break in the processor speed war to fix the
    > > Memory to CPU bottleneck problem. During this period, the cost of over

    > 2GHz
    > > PCs will come down further. The end result will be a vast improvement in

    > the
    > > average PC handling complex and difficult applications. Not too many

    years
    > > ago, you needed a Silicon Graphics workstation to do what is now

    reachable
    > > to a wider audience.
    > >
    > > Who benefits:
    > >
    > > (1) Networkers (ie. Gigabit Ethernet)
    > > (2) Multimedia Applications (eg. MPEG compression algorithms)
    > > (3) Database Access
    > > (4) Gamers
    > >
    > > The above includes a lot of users, especially if you have read Variety
    > > recently where Games is a huge money makers and game revenues exceeds

    > movie
    > > box office revenues in the US.
    > >
    > > > what people really need in "first world" countries is faster online
    > > > access into every home.. it is the last mile that is the bottleneck.

    56
    > > > k modems should be obsoleted just like 14.4 modems were...

    > >
    > > I can't disagree that its what the majority wants. But its not the only

    > hot
    > > item on most hot item lists!
    > >
    > >
    > > > Pat wrote:
    > > > > Supply and Demand are always at work in determining pricing.
    > > > >
    > > > > But the sweet spot is what governs the general pricing on memory

    from
    > > the
    > > > > manufacturing point of view.
    > > > >
    > > > > Sweet Spot = What memory types the manufacturers are tooled up for,

    to
    > > crank
    > > > > out in large quantities, at the lowest per unit price. Not too long

    > ago,
    > > it
    > > > > was DRAM in 72-pin SIMM packaging. Then it changed to SDRAM in DIMM
    > > > > packaging. Now DDR-SDRAM, and that's also changing as the mobo

    > > Front-Side
    > > > > Bus speeds ramps up to 800MHz and higher (overclocked version of

    > 1200MHz
    > > has
    > > > > been announced). Why? Apple is going that route, Sun is going that

    > > route,
    > > > > IBM is going that route. Its engineering trying to ring-out

    > bottlenecks
    > > in
    > > > > design and memory bus speeds definitely slow down the coupling

    between
    > > CPU
    > > > > and memory access. Cache is like a band-aid to help alleviate the

    > > problem
    > > > > but the better solution is to make the highways bigger and faster.
    > > > >
    > > > > The reason for the speed is not to help GeoWrite or Word be quicker

    > but
    > > its
    > > > > for Networking and Video.
    > > > >
    > > >

    > >
    > >

    >
    >




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