Re: interesting... - GEOS

This is a discussion on Re: interesting... - GEOS ; Actually, you are wrong here to. Microsoft puts pressure on the OEMs as they want to control the market, now when they have it all by themselves, they don't want to let any competitiors in, simple as that. The Linux ...

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Thread: Re: interesting...

  1. Re: interesting...

    Actually, you are wrong here to. Microsoft puts pressure on the OEMs as
    they want to control the market, now when they have it all by themselves,
    they don't want to let any competitiors in, simple as that. The Linux failure
    is due to the inability in the Linux community to meet Microsoft business
    practice. Many PC users "demands" windows as they don't know what else to
    ask for. Asking for Windows is safe. The funny thing is that a vast majority
    of them could not handle Windows, they don't know what to do when their Windows
    system is in crisis (other than calling me!) on the way to break down as
    almost all Windows users encounter from time to time. I don't understand
    why they ask for Windows.........seems like a punishment to me...........

    BR,
    Hans

    Bob wrote:
    > An OEM would DREAD trying to sell a PC sans OS, and without doubt loves

    the
    > fact that they license Windows and pre-install on a consumer end PC. Sales
    > would drop through the floor if they tried selling a PC sans Windows.

    The
    > vast majority of PC users DEMAND Windows.
    >
    > Try talking to an OEM and sell them on not installing Windows. You would

    be
    > laughed outta the office.
    >
    > "hyubso" wrote in message
    > news:3EF9EAD6.4010403@prodigy.net...
    > > then why does micorsft pressure OEM pc manufacturers??
    > >
    > > why not leave them alone??
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Bob wrote:
    > > > One need not pressure them. OEM's LOVE the fact that consumers DEMAND
    > > > Windows on their PC's!
    > > >
    > > > "hyubso" wrote in message
    > > > news:3EF9D1C4.30703@prodigy.net...
    > > >
    > > >>if msft software is so good, there is no need to pressure pc
    > > >>manufacturers to preload it on pcs because people will demand windows
    > > >>and buy it anyhow..
    > > >>
    > > >>
    > > >>what is microsoft so afraid of.. a buggy whip os like geos being
    > > >>installed on a computer?? Microsoft knows that geos is as useless

    as a
    > > >>buggy whip...
    > > >>
    > > >>
    > > >>
    > > >>
    > > >>
    > > >>
    > > >>
    > > >>
    > > >>>>Microsoft, he said, puts enormous pressure on CPU manufactures to
    > > >>>>package Windows with their machines and to prevent them from either
    > > >>>>packaging no Operating System or a competing OS on their machines.
    > > >>>>"Several companies dared to put Linux on their boxes, but due to
    > > >>>>enormous pressure from Redmond, they quit doing so," he claimed.
    > > >>>>
    > > >>>>
    > > >>>
    > > >
    > > >

    > >

    >
    >
    >


  2. Re: interesting...

    They, (consumers) demand Windows because they like it. A fraction of percent
    of end consumers buying an OEM PC would ever be happy with Linux. Face it.
    Windows is the de-facto standard as there is no other OS presently the is
    even close.

    "Hans Lindgren" wrote in message
    news:NewsReader.1.0.20036264183421872@news1.telia. com...
    > Actually, you are wrong here to. Microsoft puts pressure on the OEMs as
    > they want to control the market, now when they have it all by themselves,
    > they don't want to let any competitiors in, simple as that. The Linux

    failure
    > is due to the inability in the Linux community to meet Microsoft business
    > practice. Many PC users "demands" windows as they don't know what else to
    > ask for. Asking for Windows is safe. The funny thing is that a vast

    majority
    > of them could not handle Windows, they don't know what to do when their

    Windows
    > system is in crisis (other than calling me!) on the way to break down as
    > almost all Windows users encounter from time to time. I don't understand
    > why they ask for Windows.........seems like a punishment to me...........
    >
    > BR,
    > Hans
    >
    > Bob wrote:
    > > An OEM would DREAD trying to sell a PC sans OS, and without doubt loves

    > the
    > > fact that they license Windows and pre-install on a consumer end PC.

    Sales
    > > would drop through the floor if they tried selling a PC sans Windows.

    > The
    > > vast majority of PC users DEMAND Windows.
    > >
    > > Try talking to an OEM and sell them on not installing Windows. You would

    > be
    > > laughed outta the office.
    > >
    > > "hyubso" wrote in message
    > > news:3EF9EAD6.4010403@prodigy.net...
    > > > then why does micorsft pressure OEM pc manufacturers??
    > > >
    > > > why not leave them alone??
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > Bob wrote:
    > > > > One need not pressure them. OEM's LOVE the fact that consumers

    DEMAND
    > > > > Windows on their PC's!
    > > > >
    > > > > "hyubso" wrote in message
    > > > > news:3EF9D1C4.30703@prodigy.net...
    > > > >
    > > > >>if msft software is so good, there is no need to pressure pc
    > > > >>manufacturers to preload it on pcs because people will demand

    windows
    > > > >>and buy it anyhow..
    > > > >>
    > > > >>
    > > > >>what is microsoft so afraid of.. a buggy whip os like geos being
    > > > >>installed on a computer?? Microsoft knows that geos is as useless

    > as a
    > > > >>buggy whip...
    > > > >>
    > > > >>
    > > > >>
    > > > >>
    > > > >>
    > > > >>
    > > > >>
    > > > >>
    > > > >>>>Microsoft, he said, puts enormous pressure on CPU manufactures to
    > > > >>>>package Windows with their machines and to prevent them from

    either
    > > > >>>>packaging no Operating System or a competing OS on their machines.
    > > > >>>>"Several companies dared to put Linux on their boxes, but due to
    > > > >>>>enormous pressure from Redmond, they quit doing so," he claimed.
    > > > >>>>
    > > > >>>>
    > > > >>>
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > >

    > >
    > >
    > >




  3. Re: interesting...

    well if consumers want windows they can buy it and install it. there is
    no need of microsoft to pressure oems to preload windows, and punish
    them if they don't.


    if windows is that good of a product, , it will sell on its own












    Bob wrote:
    > They, (consumers) demand Windows because they like it. A fraction of percent
    > of end consumers buying an OEM PC would ever be happy with Linux. Face it.
    > Windows is the de-facto standard as there is no other OS presently the is
    > even close.
    >
    > "Hans Lindgren" wrote in message
    > news:NewsReader.1.0.20036264183421872@news1.telia. com...
    >
    >>Actually, you are wrong here to. Microsoft puts pressure on the OEMs as
    >>they want to control the market, now when they have it all by themselves,
    >>they don't want to let any competitiors in, simple as that. The Linux

    >
    > failure
    >
    >>is due to the inability in the Linux community to meet Microsoft business
    >>practice. Many PC users "demands" windows as they don't know what else to
    >>ask for. Asking for Windows is safe. The funny thing is that a vast

    >
    > majority
    >
    >>of them could not handle Windows, they don't know what to do when their

    >
    > Windows
    >
    >>system is in crisis (other than calling me!) on the way to break down as
    >>almost all Windows users encounter from time to time. I don't understand
    >>why they ask for Windows.........seems like a punishment to me...........
    >>
    >>BR,
    >>Hans
    >>
    >>Bob wrote:
    >>
    >>>An OEM would DREAD trying to sell a PC sans OS, and without doubt loves

    >>
    >>the
    >>
    >>>fact that they license Windows and pre-install on a consumer end PC.

    >>

    > Sales
    >
    >>>would drop through the floor if they tried selling a PC sans Windows.

    >>
    >>The
    >>
    >>>vast majority of PC users DEMAND Windows.
    >>>
    >>>Try talking to an OEM and sell them on not installing Windows. You would

    >>
    >>be
    >>
    >>>laughed outta the office.
    >>>
    >>>"hyubso" wrote in message
    >>>news:3EF9EAD6.4010403@prodigy.net...
    >>>
    >>>>then why does micorsft pressure OEM pc manufacturers??
    >>>>
    >>>>why not leave them alone??
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>Bob wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>>One need not pressure them. OEM's LOVE the fact that consumers
    >>>>

    > DEMAND
    >
    >>>>>Windows on their PC's!
    >>>>>
    >>>>>"hyubso" wrote in message
    >>>>>news:3EF9D1C4.30703@prodigy.net...
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>>if msft software is so good, there is no need to pressure pc
    >>>>>>manufacturers to preload it on pcs because people will demand
    >>>>>

    > windows
    >
    >>>>>>and buy it anyhow..
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>what is microsoft so afraid of.. a buggy whip os like geos being
    >>>>>>installed on a computer?? Microsoft knows that geos is as useless
    >>>>>

    >>as a
    >>
    >>>>>>buggy whip...
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>Microsoft, he said, puts enormous pressure on CPU manufactures to
    >>>>>>>>package Windows with their machines and to prevent them from
    >>>>>>>

    > either
    >
    >>>>>>>>packaging no Operating System or a competing OS on their machines.
    >>>>>>>>"Several companies dared to put Linux on their boxes, but due to
    >>>>>>>>enormous pressure from Redmond, they quit doing so," he claimed.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>
    >>>

    >
    >



  4. Re: interesting...

    Sigh. There is no need to pressure OEM, if you can read that is my point
    pinhead. The OEM's would dread trying to sell PC's NOT pre-loaded with
    Windows. Installing Windows INCREASES their sales. Have you ever even taken
    a introduction business, even at a community college????

    "hyubso" wrote in message
    news:3EFA4292.5000408@prodigy.net...
    > well if consumers want windows they can buy it and install it. there is
    > no need of microsoft to pressure oems to preload windows, and punish
    > them if they don't.
    >
    >
    > if windows is that good of a product, , it will sell on its own
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Bob wrote:
    > > They, (consumers) demand Windows because they like it. A fraction of

    percent
    > > of end consumers buying an OEM PC would ever be happy with Linux. Face

    it.
    > > Windows is the de-facto standard as there is no other OS presently the

    is
    > > even close.
    > >
    > > "Hans Lindgren" wrote in message
    > > news:NewsReader.1.0.20036264183421872@news1.telia. com...
    > >
    > >>Actually, you are wrong here to. Microsoft puts pressure on the OEMs as
    > >>they want to control the market, now when they have it all by

    themselves,
    > >>they don't want to let any competitiors in, simple as that. The Linux

    > >
    > > failure
    > >
    > >>is due to the inability in the Linux community to meet Microsoft

    business
    > >>practice. Many PC users "demands" windows as they don't know what else

    to
    > >>ask for. Asking for Windows is safe. The funny thing is that a vast

    > >
    > > majority
    > >
    > >>of them could not handle Windows, they don't know what to do when their

    > >
    > > Windows
    > >
    > >>system is in crisis (other than calling me!) on the way to break down as
    > >>almost all Windows users encounter from time to time. I don't understand
    > >>why they ask for Windows.........seems like a punishment to

    me...........
    > >>
    > >>BR,
    > >>Hans
    > >>
    > >>Bob wrote:
    > >>
    > >>>An OEM would DREAD trying to sell a PC sans OS, and without doubt loves


    > >>
    > >>the
    > >>
    > >>>fact that they license Windows and pre-install on a consumer end PC.
    > >>

    > > Sales
    > >
    > >>>would drop through the floor if they tried selling a PC sans Windows.
    > >>
    > >>The
    > >>
    > >>>vast majority of PC users DEMAND Windows.
    > >>>
    > >>>Try talking to an OEM and sell them on not installing Windows. You

    would
    > >>
    > >>be
    > >>
    > >>>laughed outta the office.
    > >>>
    > >>>"hyubso" wrote in message
    > >>>news:3EF9EAD6.4010403@prodigy.net...
    > >>>
    > >>>>then why does micorsft pressure OEM pc manufacturers??
    > >>>>
    > >>>>why not leave them alone??
    > >>>>
    > >>>>
    > >>>>
    > >>>>Bob wrote:
    > >>>>
    > >>>>>One need not pressure them. OEM's LOVE the fact that consumers
    > >>>>

    > > DEMAND
    > >
    > >>>>>Windows on their PC's!
    > >>>>>
    > >>>>>"hyubso" wrote in message
    > >>>>>news:3EF9D1C4.30703@prodigy.net...
    > >>>>>
    > >>>>>
    > >>>>>>if msft software is so good, there is no need to pressure pc
    > >>>>>>manufacturers to preload it on pcs because people will demand
    > >>>>>

    > > windows
    > >
    > >>>>>>and buy it anyhow..
    > >>>>>>
    > >>>>>>
    > >>>>>>what is microsoft so afraid of.. a buggy whip os like geos being
    > >>>>>>installed on a computer?? Microsoft knows that geos is as useless
    > >>>>>
    > >>as a
    > >>
    > >>>>>>buggy whip...
    > >>>>>>
    > >>>>>>
    > >>>>>>
    > >>>>>>
    > >>>>>>
    > >>>>>>
    > >>>>>>
    > >>>>>>
    > >>>>>>
    > >>>>>>>>Microsoft, he said, puts enormous pressure on CPU manufactures to
    > >>>>>>>>package Windows with their machines and to prevent them from
    > >>>>>>>

    > > either
    > >
    > >>>>>>>>packaging no Operating System or a competing OS on their machines.
    > >>>>>>>>"Several companies dared to put Linux on their boxes, but due to
    > >>>>>>>>enormous pressure from Redmond, they quit doing so," he claimed.
    > >>>>>>>>
    > >>>>>>>>
    > >>>>>>>
    > >>>>>
    > >>>
    > >>>

    > >
    > >

    >




  5. Re: interesting...

    agreed with that point, but why must microsoft pressure oems to preload
    ***windows****, and
    punish them if they don't.

    oems should be free to preload any OS they want.








    Tom Accuosti wrote:
    > In news:3EFA4292.5000408@prodigy.net,
    > hyubso wrote:
    > | well if consumers want windows they can buy it and install it. there
    > | is no need of microsoft to pressure oems to preload windows, and
    > | punish them if they don't.
    > |
    > |
    > | if windows is that good of a product, , it will sell on its own
    >
    > No, there is a certain value added in having the dealer/seller load Win
    > and other software, and make sure that the machine is configured
    > properly. While this might not mean anything to the dedicated hobbyists
    > on this group, for the vast majority of the "stupids" it adds to the
    > value of a machine to be able to start working with it right out of the
    > box.
    >
    > Tom
    >
    >



  6. Re: interesting...

    Tom Accuosti schrieb:
    >
    > In news:3EFA4292.5000408@prodigy.net,
    > hyubso wrote:
    > | well if consumers want windows they can buy it and install it. there
    > | is no need of microsoft to pressure oems to preload windows, and
    > | punish them if they don't.
    > |
    > |
    > | if windows is that good of a product, , it will sell on its own
    >
    > No, there is a certain value added in having the dealer/seller load Win
    > and other software, and make sure that the machine is configured
    > properly. While this might not mean anything to the dedicated hobbyists
    > on this group, for the vast majority of the "stupids" it adds to the
    > value of a machine to be able to start working with it right out of the
    > box.



    The fact is that too often the preinstalled windows
    1) is not properly configured
    2) is not installable on a different computer while it
    3) has been paid full for a crippled and hardware-bound OEM version
    (usually, you only save very few bucks compared to a full version, but
    this is hidden in the 'all inclusive' pricing)
    4) has no Microsoft support and the OEM support is usually poor (at
    least if it comes to normal Windows problems that are not
    device-specific, often completely).

    The OEM on the ohther side has to

    1) pay for every copy
    2) configure the thing for its product on his own costs
    3) deal with all bugs that show up
    4) make his own manuals and CDs
    5) pay for support to cover bugs caused by MS
    6) for for every copy even if the consumer wants a different OS
    7) provide drivers and support for other OS too if he doesn't want to
    lose these customers.

    While Microsoft has

    1) no production costs
    2) no support to do except sending support-seeking people away
    3) increased installation base
    4) no bugfix costs
    5) a high fictitios 'installed use base' based on the number of licenses
    sold to the OEM (and not the number of installations actually in use)
    plus the own sales plus the so-called illegal copies (including the OEM
    versions already counted in first but 'illegally' sold by the OEMs
    because these paid for them and couldn't use them)
    6) just income
    7) additionally a virtual 'loss' for all these so-called illegal copies
    that makes Microsoft making virtually no profit for taxes.

    So now tell my why OEMs should long for OEM versions of Windows?

    Grossibaer

    --
    Take a class. Read a book. Don't expect computers to be simple, because
    they are not.

  7. Re: interesting...

    "Jens-Michael Gross" wrote in message
    news:3EFC346C.1AF72466@grossibaer.de...
    >>

    > So now tell my why OEMs should long for OEM versions of Windows?
    >
    > Grossibaer


    Simple. They can't sell PC, (PERSONAL Computers), to the great unwashed
    masses unless Windows is pre-installed. You have gone to college right?



  8. Re: interesting...

    Well, it can be sold with Linux to those who wants it, or with DOS to those
    wants that. Or even OS/2. The problem here is not that people prefer Windows,
    it is that Microsoft tries to prevent people from buying anything else than
    Windows.

    BR,
    Hans

    Bob wrote:
    > "Jens-Michael Gross" wrote in message
    > news:3EFC346C.1AF72466@grossibaer.de...
    > >>

    > > So now tell my why OEMs should long for OEM versions of Windows?
    > >
    > > Grossibaer

    >
    > Simple. They can't sell PC, (PERSONAL Computers), to the great unwashed
    > masses unless Windows is pre-installed. You have gone to college right?
    >
    >
    >


  9. Re: interesting...

    Sorry. The vast majority of PC buyers DEMAND Windows. They do not want any
    other OS. They don't know any other OS. They don't care about any other OS.

    "Hans Lindgren" wrote in message
    news:NewsReader.1.0.20036290125321152@news1.telia. com...
    > Well, it can be sold with Linux to those who wants it, or with DOS to

    those
    > wants that. Or even OS/2. The problem here is not that people prefer

    Windows,
    > it is that Microsoft tries to prevent people from buying anything else

    than
    > Windows.
    >
    > BR,
    > Hans
    >
    > Bob wrote:
    > > "Jens-Michael Gross" wrote in message
    > > news:3EFC346C.1AF72466@grossibaer.de...
    > > >>
    > > > So now tell my why OEMs should long for OEM versions of Windows?
    > > >
    > > > Grossibaer

    > >
    > > Simple. They can't sell PC, (PERSONAL Computers), to the great unwashed
    > > masses unless Windows is pre-installed. You have gone to college right?
    > >
    > >
    > >




  10. Re: interesting...

    "Kenj" wrote in message
    news:hRJLa.41$NB5.7414837@mantis.golden.net...
    >
    > Anyone who has taken a trip to "Circuit City", "Best Buy", "Future Shop

    (in
    > Canada)" knows full well that the average new buyer hasn't a clue about
    > computers. >
    > Kenj


    My point exactly. The average PC buyer is an idiot. The average PC user only
    knows of Windows and only wants Windows. Thank you for agreeing.



  11. Re: interesting...

    Preloading with windows would be slightly less of a problem if new pc
    purchsaeres could have the store fdisk /blank out the hard drive before
    purchase, then refund the actual cost of the windows license right
    ther in the store. that is how microsofts preloading should be
    structured to be more fair to all parties involved.




    Bob wrote:

    > Simple. They can't sell PC, (PERSONAL Computers), to the great unwashed
    > masses unless Windows is pre-installed. You have gone to college right?
    >
    >



  12. Re: interesting...

    "hyubso" wrote in message
    news:3F05C2C3.90808@prodigy.net...
    > Preloading with windows would be slightly less of a problem if new pc
    > purchsaeres could have the store fdisk /blank out the hard drive before
    > purchase, then refund the actual cost of the windows license right
    > ther in the store. that is how microsofts preloading should be
    > structured to be more fair to all parties involved.


    I agree. "Legally", you are entitled to the OS CD-ROM, and most OEM's do
    this. Compaq comes to mind. With each OEM PC you get a "restore" disk and
    the OEM's version of Windows. Now for a tech., the restore disk is very
    limiting, but for an average home user, (which was the target in the 1st
    place), it is fine. If you have the OEM's CD-ROM of Windows, at least you
    can partition anyway you want, install Windows from MS's CD-ROM and use the
    restore CD for your drivers.



  13. Re: interesting...

    Bob schrieb:

    [...]
    > Yup. That's just what they do. Perfect for the great unwashed no brains that
    > would buy them in the 1st place. Nice and simple for the simple-minded.


    I was lucky with my DELL laptop. The included NT4 was unable to partiton
    a HD (other than one big one) or install on anything but a DELL
    computer, but at least it was asking me for the partition to install to
    if there were already several partitions on the HD.
    NT4 and Win95 do peacefully coexist on this laptop now.

    Grossibaer

    --
    Take a class. Read a book. Don't expect computers to be simple, because
    they are not.

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