16 bit apps - GEOS

This is a discussion on 16 bit apps - GEOS ; will the 16 bit apps, that are currently being sold on the Breadbox Web site still work on the 32 bit platform? I have the Newdeal 2000 software. I thought that the first thing that was going to be done ...

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  1. 16 bit apps

    will the 16 bit apps, that are currently being sold on the Breadbox
    Web site still work on the 32 bit platform?

    I have the Newdeal 2000 software.

    I thought that the first thing that was going to be done was to get
    rid of the 640K barrier, while the software was still 16 bit. I
    thought that Jenns or someone had said (and this is a while ago so I
    could be wrong) that this would solve alot of the errors. Has this
    already been done in Breadbox Ensemble?

    I think that the reason that they said it was because 32 bit would be
    a vast undertaking, and extending the 640K barrier would be a faster
    and easier way to fix most problems.


    Also I was curious, is the OS on the global PC on ROM. I thought
    someone said that. The reason I am asking is because I love the fact
    that it is made for the Geos system (with its own Express button on
    the bottom row and quick link buttons at the top) and did not know if
    it was going to be possible to change the OS from what ever is on
    there to BE or the New 32 bit BE. If it is not possible, would I just
    put BE on the harddrive or one of the harddrives as I would on a
    regular computer? If I were to do that would it have access to the
    modem and ports as the Myturn software does? I am concerned that the
    hardware is locked into the Myturn software (if it is on rom).


    Also I did not see the NewBasic program on the stats for BE. Is there
    not a version from breadbox?


  2. Re: 16 bit apps

    On Feb 2, 11:23 am, "pazios" wrote:
    > will the 16 bit apps, that are currently being sold on the Breadbox
    > Web site still work on the 32 bit platform?


    I don't know; I haven't even seen any progress reports on the "32-bit
    platform". Not the most encouraging thing in the world... I don't see
    value in a "32-bit" Geos that doesn't run software.

    > I thought that the first thing that was going to be done was to get
    > rid of the 640K barrier, while the software was still 16 bit. I
    > thought that Jenns or someone had said (and this is a while ago so I
    > could be wrong) that this would solve alot of the errors. Has this
    > already been done in Breadbox Ensemble?


    I believe it has, to the best of the ability of the programmers back
    at the time. Geos has been able to use "UMBs" (upper memory blocks)
    for quite some time. UMBs are chunks of memory between 640k and 1MB;
    they were originally reserved for hardware use, but with some trickery
    with memory management hardware software can be safely placed in them.

    If your memory manager provides them, and they aren't being used by
    other software, Geos will use them. They definitely help.

    There could be more, on modern platforms or with a modern rewrite of
    DOS (perhaps one that placed all or most of DOS in high memory) -- but
    to the best of my knowledge that hasn't been done. It would be very
    nice to have such a thing, particularly one that worked cooperatively
    with modern operating environments like XP, Vista, and Linux. Such an
    undertaking would be worth more than a nominally 32-bit rewrite (why
    should I care how many bits you shovel? I want fonts, not bits.)

    > I think that the reason that they said it was because 32 bit would be
    > a vast undertaking, and extending the 640K barrier would be a faster
    > and easier way to fix most problems.


    Correct on both points.

    -Billy


  3. Re: 16 bit apps

    pazios wrote:
    > will the 16 bit apps, that are currently being sold on the Breadbox
    > Web site still work on the 32 bit platform?
    >
    > I have the Newdeal 2000 software.
    >
    > I thought that the first thing that was going to be done was to get
    > rid of the 640K barrier, while the software was still 16 bit. I
    > thought that Jenns or someone had said (and this is a while ago so I
    > could be wrong) that this would solve alot of the errors. Has this
    > already been done in Breadbox Ensemble?
    >
    > I think that the reason that they said it was because 32 bit would be
    > a vast undertaking, and extending the 640K barrier would be a faster
    > and easier way to fix most problems.
    >
    >
    > Also I was curious, is the OS on the global PC on ROM. I thought
    > someone said that. The reason I am asking is because I love the fact
    > that it is made for the Geos system (with its own Express button on
    > the bottom row and quick link buttons at the top) and did not know if
    > it was going to be possible to change the OS from what ever is on
    > there to BE or the New 32 bit BE. If it is not possible, would I just
    > put BE on the harddrive or one of the harddrives as I would on a
    > regular computer? If I were to do that would it have access to the
    > modem and ports as the Myturn software does? I am concerned that the
    > hardware is locked into the Myturn software (if it is on rom).
    >
    >
    > Also I did not see the NewBasic program on the stats for BE. Is there
    > not a version from breadbox?
    >


    LOL!!! 32-Bit platform! OMG!!!

  4. Re: 16 bit apps

    On Fri, 2 Feb 2007 19:23:37 UTC, "pazios"
    wrote:

    > will the 16 bit apps, that are currently being sold on the Breadbox
    > Web site still work on the 32 bit platform?
    >
    > I have the Newdeal 2000 software.
    >
    > I thought that the first thing that was going to be done was to get
    > rid of the 640K barrier, while the software was still 16 bit. I
    > thought that Jenns or someone had said (and this is a while ago so I
    > could be wrong) that this would solve alot of the errors. Has this
    > already been done in Breadbox Ensemble?
    >
    > I think that the reason that they said it was because 32 bit would be
    > a vast undertaking, and extending the 640K barrier would be a faster
    > and easier way to fix most problems.
    >
    >
    > Also I was curious, is the OS on the global PC on ROM. I thought
    > someone said that. The reason I am asking is because I love the fact
    > that it is made for the Geos system (with its own Express button on
    > the bottom row and quick link buttons at the top) and did not know if
    > it was going to be possible to change the OS from what ever is on
    > there to BE or the New 32 bit BE. If it is not possible, would I just
    > put BE on the harddrive or one of the harddrives as I would on a
    > regular computer? If I were to do that would it have access to the
    > modem and ports as the Myturn software does? I am concerned that the
    > hardware is locked into the Myturn software (if it is on rom).
    >
    >
    > Also I did not see the NewBasic program on the stats for BE. Is there
    > not a version from breadbox?
    >


    Personally, I would be pleased if they just fixed LOADER.EXE so you
    could load the current program on faster processors w/o resorting to
    slow-down techniques. I do a lot with the current version and have a
    lot of documents saved in this format.
    Paul

    --


  5. Re: 16 bit apps

    Here in comp.os.geos.misc, Bob
    spake unto us, saying:

    >LOL!!! 32-Bit platform! OMG!!!


    Hey, 32-bit is as good as it can get on most desktop machines.

    --
    -Rich Steiner >>>---> http://www.visi.com/~rsteiner >>>---> Mableton, GA USA
    Mainframe/Unix bit twiddler by day, OS/2+Linux+DOS hobbyist by night.
    WARNING: I've seen FIELDATA FORTRAN V and I know how to use it!
    The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then.

  6. Re: 16 bit apps

    On Feb 2, 2:23 pm, "pazios" wrote:
    > will the 16 bit apps, that are currently being sold on the Breadbox
    > Web site still work on the 32 bit platform?
    >
    > I have the Newdeal 2000 software.
    >
    > I thought that the first thing that was going to be done was to get
    > rid of the 640K barrier, while the software was still 16 bit. I
    > thought that Jenns or someone had said (and this is a while ago so I
    > could be wrong) that this would solve alot of the errors. Has this
    > already been done in Breadbox Ensemble?
    >
    > I think that the reason that they said it was because 32 bit would be
    > a vast undertaking, and extending the 640K barrier would be a faster
    > and easier way to fix most problems.
    >
    > Also I was curious, is the OS on the global PC on ROM. I thought
    > someone said that. The reason I am asking is because I love the fact
    > that it is made for the Geos system (with its own Express button on
    > the bottom row and quick link buttons at the top) and did not know if
    > it was going to be possible to change the OS from what ever is on
    > there to BE or the New 32 bit BE. If it is not possible, would I just
    > put BE on the harddrive or one of the harddrives as I would on a
    > regular computer? If I were to do that would it have access to the
    > modem and ports as the Myturn software does? I am concerned that the
    > hardware is locked into the Myturn software (if it is on rom).
    >
    > Also I did not see the NewBasic program on the stats for BE. Is there
    > not a version from breadbox?


    recieved a response from breadbox on this issue. They responded quite
    quickly. Thank you all for your responses.


  7. Re: 16 bit apps

    pazios wrote:

    > On Feb 2, 2:23 pm, "pazios" wrote:
    >
    >>will the 16 bit apps, that are currently being sold on the Breadbox
    >>Web site still work on the 32 bit platform?
    >>
    >>I have the Newdeal 2000 software.
    >>
    >>I thought that the first thing that was going to be done was to get
    >>rid of the 640K barrier, while the software was still 16 bit. I
    >>thought that Jenns or someone had said (and this is a while ago so I
    >>could be wrong) that this would solve alot of the errors. Has this
    >>already been done in Breadbox Ensemble?
    >>
    >>I think that the reason that they said it was because 32 bit would be
    >>a vast undertaking, and extending the 640K barrier would be a faster
    >>and easier way to fix most problems.
    >>
    >>Also I was curious, is the OS on the global PC on ROM. I thought
    >>someone said that. The reason I am asking is because I love the fact
    >>that it is made for the Geos system (with its own Express button on
    >>the bottom row and quick link buttons at the top) and did not know if
    >>it was going to be possible to change the OS from what ever is on
    >>there to BE or the New 32 bit BE. If it is not possible, would I just
    >>put BE on the harddrive or one of the harddrives as I would on a
    >>regular computer? If I were to do that would it have access to the
    >>modem and ports as the Myturn software does? I am concerned that the
    >>hardware is locked into the Myturn software (if it is on rom).
    >>
    >>Also I did not see the NewBasic program on the stats for BE. Is there
    >>not a version from breadbox?

    >
    >
    > recieved a response from breadbox on this issue. They responded quite
    > quickly. Thank you all for your responses.
    >


    And the answer was ?

  8. Re: 16 bit apps

    On Feb 9, 3:20 am, Philippe
    wrote:
    > pazios wrote:
    > > On Feb 2, 2:23 pm, "pazios" wrote:

    >
    > >>will the 16 bit apps, that are currently being sold on the Breadbox
    > >>Web site still work on the 32 bit platform?

    >
    > >>I have the Newdeal 2000 software.

    >
    > >>I thought that the first thing that was going to be done was to get
    > >>rid of the 640K barrier, while the software was still 16 bit. I
    > >>thought that Jenns or someone had said (and this is a while ago so I
    > >>could be wrong) that this would solve alot of the errors. Has this
    > >>already been done in Breadbox Ensemble?

    >
    > >>I think that the reason that they said it was because 32 bit would be
    > >>a vast undertaking, and extending the 640K barrier would be a faster
    > >>and easier way to fix most problems.

    >
    > >>Also I was curious, is the OS on the global PC on ROM. I thought
    > >>someone said that. The reason I am asking is because I love the fact
    > >>that it is made for the Geos system (with its own Express button on
    > >>the bottom row and quick link buttons at the top) and did not know if
    > >>it was going to be possible to change the OS from what ever is on
    > >>there to BE or the New 32 bit BE. If it is not possible, would I just
    > >>put BE on the harddrive or one of the harddrives as I would on a
    > >>regular computer? If I were to do that would it have access to the
    > >>modem and ports as the Myturn software does? I am concerned that the
    > >>hardware is locked into the Myturn software (if it is on rom).

    >
    > >>Also I did not see the NewBasic program on the stats for BE. Is there
    > >>not a version from breadbox?

    >
    > > recieved a response from breadbox on this issue. They responded quite
    > > quickly. Thank you all for your responses.

    >
    > And the answer was ?- Hide quoted text -
    >
    > - Show quoted text -


    sorry...that was funny that I didnt post it. hahahaha

    anyway here is the email:

    Hi,

    Answers interspersed below...

    ----- Original Message ----- From:
    To:
    Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 3:23 PM
    Subject: E-mail to Breadbox


    This is a WWW Generated Document.

    Telephone Number508-695-6681

    I posted this on the forums but I am not getting much play, so I
    thought I
    would go right to the source. thankyou in advance for your attention
    in this
    matter





    will the 16 bit apps, that are currently being sold on the Breadbox


    Web site still work on the 32 bit platform?



    Yes, that is the plan.








    I thought that the first thing that was going to be done was to get


    rid of the 640K barrier, while the software was still 16 bit. I

    thought that Jenns or someone had said (and this is a while ago so I


    could be wrong) that this would solve alot of the errors. Has this


    already been done in Breadbox Ensemble?



    We have decided to skip this and go directly to Geos32




    I think that the reason that they said it was because 32 bit would be


    a vast undertaking, and extending the 640K barrier would be a faster


    and easier way to fix most problems.



    Yes Geos32 is a big undertaking. But we decided to not do a half fix
    in the interim,




    Also I was curious, is the OS on the global PC on ROM. I thought


    someone said that. The reason I am asking is because I love the fact


    that it is made for the Geos system (with its own Express button on


    the bottom row and quick link buttons at the top) and did not know if


    it was going to be possible to change the OS from what ever is on


    there to BE or the New 32 bit BE. If it is not possible, would I just


    put BE on the harddrive or one of the harddrives as I would on a

    regular computer? If I were to do that would it have access to the


    modem and ports as the Myturn software does? I am concerned that the


    hardware is locked into the Myturn software (if it is on rom).



    No, Geos is not in ROM on the GlobalPC. It is loaded on one of the
    two partitions on the hard drive.




    Also I did not see the NewBasic program on the stats for BE. Is there


    not a version from breadbox?



    NewBASIC is a NewDeal product and Breadbox does not have rights to
    sell or mess with it.

    John Howard
    Breadbox Computer Company LLC


  9. Re: 16 bit apps

    pazios wrote:
    > On Feb 9, 3:20 am, Philippe

    [snip]

    >>
    >>And the answer was ?- Hide quoted text -
    >>
    >>- Show quoted text -

    >
    >
    > sorry...that was funny that I didnt post it. hahahaha
    >
    > anyway here is the email:
    >
    > Hi,
    >

    [snip]

    thanks !

  10. Re: 16 bit apps

    Hi pazios!

    You wrote:

    >will the 16 bit apps, that are currently being sold on the Breadbox
    >Web site still work on the 32 bit platform?


    Seems that the corresponding answers have been given by now, icluding
    a detailed response from John Howard of BBX.

    For the time being, NDO 2000 ist 16bit, including its sorroundings.

    To me, 16bit software stands synonymously for stability & ressource
    friendly. Win 3.1 might have been the same but it was just some kind
    of DOS GUI.

    For everydays work, such as word processing, I find a stable word
    processor like NewWrite more than helpful. It does its job! There's,
    certainly a couple of users who need to include audio files, or
    videos, etc. into their WP documents - Sorry, I can't cope with that.
    My letters are being printed on a paper sheet in an old-fashioned way,
    undersigned by hand, and envelopped.

    For multimedia, DVD & CD processing, etc., I keep a 32 bit partition
    which is being run under Windows. Linux would be even a better choice.

    So, what's your problem with 16bit apps?

    Kind Regards,
    Hans.

  11. Re: 16 bit apps

    On Feb 13, 4:59 pm, Hans Voges wrote:
    > Hi pazios!
    >
    > You wrote:
    > >will the 16 bit apps, that are currently being sold on the Breadbox
    > >Web site still work on the 32 bit platform?

    >
    > Seems that the corresponding answers have been given by now, icluding
    > a detailed response from John Howard of BBX.
    >
    > For the time being, NDO 2000 ist 16bit, including its sorroundings.
    >
    > To me, 16bit software stands synonymously for stability & ressource
    > friendly. Win 3.1 might have been the same but it was just some kind
    > of DOS GUI.
    >
    > For everydays work, such as word processing, I find a stable word
    > processor like NewWrite more than helpful. It does its job! There's,
    > certainly a couple of users who need to include audio files, or
    > videos, etc. into their WP documents - Sorry, I can't cope with that.
    > My letters are being printed on a paper sheet in an old-fashioned way,
    > undersigned by hand, and envelopped.
    >
    > For multimedia, DVD & CD processing, etc., I keep a 32 bit partition
    > which is being run under Windows. Linux would be even a better choice.
    >
    > So, what's your problem with 16bit apps?
    >
    > Kind Regards,
    > Hans.


    why do you think I have a problem with 16 bit? I would have been
    happy with extending the 640K barrier (or what ever Jenns said years
    ago) and staying 16 bit. I just dont want to purchase 16 bit software
    (gourmet and or timetool) and not have them run under the new system.
    I was also fishing to see if they had made those changes (the
    extension of the 640K barrier) in breadbox ensemble already. I am
    perfectly happy with my global pc (the first time that I actually have
    a computer made for Geos, everything works (modem, sound). I just
    dont want to waste money purchasing software. I dont understand why
    you could have thought that I had a problem with 16 bit.


  12. Re: 16 bit apps

    Hi pazios!

    You wrote:

    >why do you think I have a problem with 16 bit? I would have been
    >happy with extending the 640K barrier (or what ever Jenns said years
    >ago) and staying 16 bit. I just dont want to purchase 16 bit software
    >(gourmet and or timetool) and not have them run under the new system.
    >I was also fishing to see if they had made those changes (the
    >extension of the 640K barrier) in breadbox ensemble already. I am
    >perfectly happy with my global pc (the first time that I actually have
    >a computer made for Geos, everything works (modem, sound). I just
    >dont want to waste money purchasing software. I dont understand why
    >you could have thought that I had a problem with 16 bit.


    Sorry, it seems that I have been misunderstanding your approach.

    As far as I know, a 32 bit Geos -which could overcome the 16 bit
    barrier of 640 kB in a "natural" way- is still far out and not really
    in reach. BBX says to be working on 32 bit Geos but we will have to
    wait, I think. They are -and they have to be- busy with other
    commercial stuff which, from a commercial point of view, everyone
    should appreciate.

    For the time being, I think we only can concentrate on the 16 bit
    material which is available. To the best of my knowledge, some
    300...500 megabyte Geos 16 bit software has been written over the
    years. Of course, that's not only applications, or programs, but also
    pictures, news scans, documents, animations, etc. But there's a lot of
    stuff (16 bit, of course) still out there. A considerable part of that
    is freeware or FOC "abandonware".

    So, there should be no need to buy anything, besides of the NDO suite
    or Ensemble suite. Anything else can be found in the depths of the
    net. And free, as mentioned before.

    Reg's,
    Hans.

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