Stupid Geos questions. - GEOS

This is a discussion on Stupid Geos questions. - GEOS ; I know most of these questions probably soud pretty dumb, but I'm going to ask them anyway. I just downloaded Geoworks Ensemble 2.0, and I don't know anything about it, but I have used the C=64 version a little. I ...

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Thread: Stupid Geos questions.

  1. Stupid Geos questions.

    I know most of these questions probably soud pretty dumb, but I'm
    going to ask them anyway. I just downloaded Geoworks Ensemble 2.0, and
    I don't know anything about it, but I have used the C=64 version a
    little. I have a C=128, a CoCo 3, and a Tandy 1400LT that will
    probably be running Geos as well as Tandy DeskMate 3.69 & MS Works 3.0

    1.How much disk space does P.C. Geoworks Ensemble 2.0 take? Without
    the help & tutorial files? Can I even run it on a 2-floppy only
    system, or will I have to use a hard drive?

    2.I understand it can multitask. How many applicatiions in 640k? Does
    that include pop-up accessories?

    3.How similar is it to Apple II Geos 2.0, or C=64/128 Geos 2.0, 2.5,
    gateway, or wheels? Is this newsgroup for the pee see version only, or
    do you also talk about the C=64/128 & Apple II?

  2. Re: Stupid Geos questions.

    On 21 Feb 2004 16:00:22 -0800, puritan_2076@yahoo.com (Leon Howell)
    wrote:

    >I know most of these questions probably soud pretty dumb, but I'm
    >going to ask them anyway. I just downloaded Geoworks Ensemble 2.0, and
    >I don't know anything about it, but I have used the C=64 version a
    >little. I have a C=128, a CoCo 3, and a Tandy 1400LT that will
    >probably be running Geos as well as Tandy DeskMate 3.69 & MS Works 3.0
    >
    >1.How much disk space does P.C. Geoworks Ensemble 2.0 take? Without
    >the help & tutorial files? Can I even run it on a 2-floppy only
    >system, or will I have to use a hard drive?


    Not recommended. You could tweak it and run a very basic setup on 2
    floppies very slowly. But that would be pointless. I used to run it on
    a 20MB RLL drive just fine. It came with its own 8bit interface card,
    so no IDE port needed.

    >2.I understand it can multitask. How many applicatiions in 640k? Does
    >that include pop-up accessories?


    Anything in GEOS can be run at the same time, no problem. But you
    hardly need more than 3 or 4 applications open, or would you?

    >3.How similar is it to Apple II Geos 2.0, or C=64/128 Geos 2.0, 2.5,
    >gateway, or wheels? Is this newsgroup for the pee see version only, or
    >do you also talk about the C=64/128 & Apple II?


    There are not many people here who remember this, but you are
    certainly welcome. :-)


    Holger

  3. Re: Stupid Geos questions.

    Hi!

    > 1.How much disk space does P.C. Geoworks Ensemble 2.0 take?


    20MB and more... you can probably reduce Geos + Geowrite to fit onto
    one or two disks, but definately not the whole package. (And of course
    it would be as slow as when running on a floppy ;-)

    > 2.I understand it can multitask. How many applicatiions in 640k?


    That depends on what you're doing since some applications are more
    RAM-hungry than other :-D

    > 3.How similar is it to Apple II Geos 2.0, or C=64/128 Geos 2.0, 2.5,
    > gateway, or wheels? Is this newsgroup for the pee see version only, or
    > do you also talk about the C=64/128 & Apple II?


    a) All graphical user-interfaces are kind of similar. But GWE2.x
    emulates Motif in look&feel while the 8bit-versions don't.
    b) The comp.os.geos.*-groups are for the PC-versions only (incl. the
    Geos-PDAs, -Typewriters and -Smartphones).

    BR
    Jörg

  4. Re: Stupid Geos questions.

    Here in comp.os.geos.misc,
    newpilz@my-deja.com (J?rg Polzfu?) spake unto us, saying:

    >> 1.How much disk space does P.C. Geoworks Ensemble 2.0 take?

    >
    >20MB and more... you can probably reduce Geos + Geowrite to fit onto
    >one or two disks, but definately not the whole package. (And of course
    >it would be as slow as when running on a floppy ;-)


    As a reference point, my Geoworks Ensemble 2.01 installation here is
    16.8MB, but that includes about 3MB of extra fonts and around 4MB of
    documents/drawings I've created and store in its directory tree, making
    Ensemble itself around 10MB in size.

    >> 3.How similar is it to Apple II Geos 2.0, or C=64/128 Geos 2.0, 2.5,
    >> gateway, or wheels? Is this newsgroup for the pee see version only, or
    >> do you also talk about the C=64/128 & Apple II?

    >
    >a) All graphical user-interfaces are kind of similar. But GWE2.x
    >emulates Motif in look&feel while the 8bit-versions don't.


    As I understand it, PC/GEOS actually uses a licensed Motif look and
    feel. It ain't X, but it might be the real Motif. :-)

    --
    -Rich Steiner >>>---> http://www.visi.com/~rsteiner >>>---> Eden Prairie, MN
    OS/2 + eCS + Linux + Win95 + DOS + PC/GEOS + Executor = PC Hobbyist Heaven!
    Applications analyst/designer/developer (14 yrs) seeking employment.
    See web site above for resume/CV and background.

  5. Re: Stupid Geos questions.

    > >20MB and more... you can probably reduce Geos + Geowrite to fit onto
    > >one or two disks, but definately not the whole package. (And of course
    > >it would be as slow as when running on a floppy ;-)


    Souds about like what I'm doing with DeskMate. I'm using about 3
    floppies, without the help & tutorial files (they do fit on a 4th
    floppy) plus 2 data disks. DeskMate hss much less graphics than Geos.
    And yes, it's very slow. Oh well, I'm working on setting up a Zip
    drive. That will fix almost everything.

    > >> 3.How similar is it to Apple II Geos 2.0, or C=64/128 Geos 2.0, 2.5,
    > >> gateway, or wheels? Is this newsgroup for the pee see version only, or
    > >> do you also talk about the C=64/128 & Apple II?

    > >
    > >a) All graphical user-interfaces are kind of similar. But GWE2.x
    > >emulates Motif in look&feel while the 8bit-versions don't.

    >
    > As I understand it, PC/GEOS actually uses a licensed Motif look and
    > feel. It ain't X, but it might be the real Motif. :-)


    What's Motif?

    Has anyone here seen Wheels? It's the latest (1999) Commodore version.

  6. Re: Stupid Geos questions.


    "Richard Steiner" wrote in message
    news:nfkOApHpvu+B092yn@visi.com...
    > As I understand it, PC/GEOS actually uses a licensed Motif look and
    > feel. It ain't X, but it might be the real Motif. :-)


    I first got a demo of the pre-release of GEOS 1.0 around 1990. It was
    referred to, back then, as GEOS 0.x, or just PC/GEOS 1.0 Beta. None other
    then Brian Dougherty, himself, did the hands on actual demo. He had multiple
    UIs that he showed off and flew all over trying to get business. IBM was a
    long shot for him, that unfortunately didn't pan out.

    (1) GEOS Motif like UI (licensed from The Open Software Foundation, where my
    company sent me briefly to port OSF's version of unix)
    (2) CUA-2 IBM OS/2 UI (Brian had been wooing IBM to adopt GEOS)
    (3) Open Look (licensed from Sun Microsystems)
    (4) Tandy's Deskmate UI (which I don't think was licensed but cloned)
    A little peek: http://toastytech.com/guis/deskmate4.html

    Was GEOS' implementation of Motif a full version?

    I am just speculating now, because I admit that I don't know for sure. I
    think it was a subset impplementation. Sort of a Motif lite. Steve Main
    would absolutely know for certain, and I'm sure John Howard is knowledgeable
    about this trivia question.




  7. Re: Stupid Geos questions.

    > > As I understand it, PC/GEOS actually uses a licensed Motif look and
    > > feel. It ain't X, but it might be the real Motif. :-)


    What's Motif?

    > (1) GEOS Motif like UI (licensed from The Open Software Foundation, where my
    > company sent me briefly to port OSF's version of unix)
    > (2) CUA-2 IBM OS/2 UI (Brian had been wooing IBM to adopt GEOS)
    > (3) Open Look (licensed from Sun Microsystems)
    > (4) Tandy's Deskmate UI (which I don't think was licensed but cloned)
    > A little peek: http://toastytech.com/guis/deskmate4.html


    DeskMate does not use the same look as Geos.

    > Was GEOS' implementation of Motif a full version?


    What's Motif?

    > I am just speculating now, because I admit that I don't know for sure. I
    > think it was a subset impplementation. Sort of a Motif lite. Steve Main
    > would absolutely know for certain, and I'm sure John Howard is knowledgeable
    > about this trivia question.


    What's Motif?

  8. Re: Stupid Geos questions.

    > As a reference point, my Geoworks Ensemble 2.01 installation here is
    > 16.8MB, but that includes about 3MB of extra fonts and around 4MB of
    > documents/drawings I've created and store in its directory tree, making
    > Ensemble itself around 10MB in size.


    Does that 10 meg include help & tutorials?

    > As I understand it, PC/GEOS actually uses a licensed Motif look and
    > feel.


    What's Motif?

    >It ain't X, but it might be the real Motif. :-)


    What's X?

  9. Re: Stupid Geos questions.

    Hi!

    > What's Motif?


    It's one of the "standards" for GUIs (graphic user-interfaces). It
    regulates AFAIK:
    * general "look & feel"
    * form of the buttons, textfields, scrollbars, windows, menus,
    submenus, ...
    * size, form and position of the "minimize / maximize
    windows"-elements
    * some keyboard-shortcuts (well, I'm not sure about this point)
    * ...

    Besides GWE, it's mainly used as a GUI for X (the graphical
    environment used by Linux/Unix).

    J.

  10. Re: Stupid Geos questions.

    On 25 Feb 2004 15:47:23 -0800, puritan_2076@yahoo.com (Leon Howell)
    wrote:

    >What's Motif?


    This link will answer you question directly.

    http://www.opengroup.org/motif/motif.data.sheet.htm

    Berkeley Softworks created a clone of the earlier version of Motif more
    than a decade ago calling it GEOS (Graphic Environment Operating System)
    for microcomputers. Microcomputer was the description given to the PC's
    ancestors. Berkeley Softworks later renamed the company to GeoWorks,
    the flagship product they produced. Your TV Guide synopsis.


    ________________________
    ·Glen A. Doll·
    ·Roseville, CA·
    ·N38.74758°
    ·W121.28669°
    ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ

  11. Re: Stupid Geos questions.

    On 25 Feb 2004 15:49:45 -0800, puritan_2076@yahoo.com (Leon Howell)
    wrote:

    >What's X?


    An old powerful GUI for UNIX.

    ________________________
    ·Glen A. Doll·
    ·Roseville, CA·
    ·N38.74758°
    ·W121.28669°
    ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ

  12. Re: Stupid Geos questions.


    "Leon Howell" wrote in message
    news:ae64f04a.0402251547.78efa2f@posting.google.co m...

    > What's Motif?


    http://www.opengroup.org/motif/motif.data.sheet.htm

    http://www.opengroup.org/motif/

    Yo Leon,

    Kapish?



  13. Re: Stupid Geos questions.

    Here in comp.os.geos.misc,
    puritan_2076@yahoo.com (Leon Howell) spake unto us, saying:

    >> > As I understand it, PC/GEOS actually uses a licensed Motif look and
    >> > feel. It ain't X, but it might be the real Motif. :-)

    >
    >What's Motif?


    Motif is one of the many different widget sets which defines the look
    and feel of windows and other UI elements under the X window system.

    http://www.rahul.net/kenton/faqs/Motif-FAQ.html#3*

    Windows 3.1 also looked (roughly) like Motif.

    --
    -Rich Steiner >>>---> http://www.visi.com/~rsteiner >>>---> Eden Prairie, MN
    OS/2 + eCS + Linux + Win95 + DOS + PC/GEOS + Executor = PC Hobbyist Heaven!
    Applications analyst/designer/developer (14 yrs) seeking employment.
    See web site above for resume/CV and background.

  14. Re: Stupid Geos questions.

    Here in comp.os.geos.misc,
    puritan_2076@yahoo.com (Leon Howell) spake unto us, saying:

    >> As a reference point, my Geoworks Ensemble 2.01 installation here is
    >> 16.8MB, but that includes about 3MB of extra fonts and around 4MB of
    >> documents/drawings I've created and store in its directory tree, making
    >> Ensemble itself around 10MB in size.

    >
    >Does that 10 meg include help & tutorials?


    Yes, the desktop and the main applications come with fairly decent help
    to get started. It also came with a fairly decent book or two.

    In addition, the bundled applications can each be set to one of four
    "user levels" (with "1" being beginner, "4" being expert) which change
    the application and make it less complex (for easier learning) or more
    complex (as one gets used to the program in question).

    >>It ain't X, but it might be the real Motif. :-)

    >
    >What's X?


    X is short for the X Window System, the foundation for the GUIs that
    are usually used on various freeware and propretiary Unix or Unix-like
    operating systems (Solaris, Linux, the BSD family, etc.) and on other
    platforms.

    http://www.x.org/X11.html

    A very commonly used version of X is XFree86, found here:

    http://www.xfree86.org

    X is quite nice because it is network-transparent -- any program that
    is written as an X client can put its display on any box running an X
    server on the network, making it easy for people like me to do silly
    things like run Linux programs on my headless fileserver but actually
    use their interface (buttons, dialogs, etc.) on my OS/2 desktop (in
    my case using Hummingbird Exceed, a proprietary X server for OS/2).

    --
    -Rich Steiner >>>---> http://www.visi.com/~rsteiner >>>---> Eden Prairie, MN
    OS/2 + eCS + Linux + Win95 + DOS + PC/GEOS + Executor = PC Hobbyist Heaven!
    Applications analyst/designer/developer (14 yrs) seeking employment.
    See web site above for resume/CV and background.

  15. Re: Stupid Geos questions.

    Leon Howell schrieb:

    > 1.How much disk space does P.C. Geoworks Ensemble 2.0 take? Without
    > the help & tutorial files? Can I even run it on a 2-floppy only
    > system, or will I have to use a hard drive?


    I think it could be stripped down to about 8MB by leaving the templates,
    most fonts, help files and tools.
    If you do not have more than 1 MB Ram (XMS or EMS memory), it will need
    some disk space for swapping.
    And swapping on a floppy... Argh!
    And if you have a machin with more RAM, you'll most certainly have an
    HD. So isntall it there.

    What you can do: you can set up you own install disks which create a
    folder on HD (or maybe even on a RAM drive if the machine has enough
    RAM) and then extract you zipped installation there. GEOS runs from
    every directory, you can move it to other drives or even to other
    machines (while it might be necessary to adjust the hardware settings,
    so go back to standard VGA and DOS mouse before moving the stuff).

    You could have the following set of floppies:

    1) DOS bootdisk which sets up a (large, use all but 2-4MB of all RAM)
    ramdisk and stores some necessary programs (such as PKUNZIP) there.
    2) one or more floppies with GEOS in zipped form
    3) your data floppy for storing the files.\

    This way you don't need to install it on a HD.
    Works well on machines with 16MB or more.

    > 2.I understand it can multitask. How many applicatiions in 640k? Does
    > that include pop-up accessories?


    It depends on the memory usage. If there is enough swap space on RAM or
    Disk, you can launch as many applications and accessories (ther es no
    difference between them) as the global ressource tables can hold track
    of.
    Once I opened 257 windows without a crash.
    Besides the ressource table, there is another limiting factor: every
    program requires some fixed space in conventional memory that cannot be
    swapped or put into XMS. Also, the currently executing code, most of the
    kernel and the data block(s) that is in use needs to be in convetional
    memory. So it depends on the type of program...
    It is no problem to have the word processor, spreadsheet, address book,
    drawing program and calculator open at the same time. And more.


    > 3.How similar is it to Apple II Geos 2.0, or C=64/128 Geos 2.0, 2.5,
    > gateway, or wheels? Is this newsgroup for the pee see version only, or
    > do you also talk about the C=64/128 & Apple II?


    The 8bit versions of GEOS are seldom mentioned here. And most people
    here have only C64/C128 and GEOS 2.0 experience, if any.

    The PC version is completely different from the C64 one. It is a real OS
    (shut up, BOB!) where the C64 GEOS was more a big runtime library for
    the currently loaded program.
    What's similar is the ease of use. And the original creator.
    And the efficient use of ressources (compared with the number of
    features).

    I wonder where you downloaded the 2.0 version of GEOS? Or was it
    GeoPublish (the shareware version)?

    Grossibaer

    --
    If Microsoft would invest only 5 minutes to make Windows boot 1/1000
    second faster,
    we would save 30 working hours worldwide every day.

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