At 10:16 PM -0800 2003/11/25, Allan Bowhill wrote:

> You are changing the meaning of my statement and arguing against it,
> pretending I said it. You are creating a straw man.

No, he's not. You took a definition that based on events and
applied it to a completely different situation (skillsets), and then
tried to continue to use the same term.

Use the right term, the right way.

> Now we get to the real reason for your attack. You have an expanded
> view of systems administration to include programming.

There are some aspects of systems administration that share a
great deal with programming. In those cases, whether you're doing
"systems administration" or "programming" depends on on the broader
context in which you are performing that action.

> My position, correct or not, is that systems administration and
> programming are two fundamentally distinct and exclusive areas.

Wrong. They have a hell of a lot of overlap. There are some
areas which are unique to one particular area or the other, but there
is more overlap than not.

> To tie this back to the original argument, I think the perception that
> they are one in the same has led to unrealistic expectations on the Unix
> front, that developers should also be expert systems administrators.

Or vice-versa, that you all systems administrators should also be
expert programmers.

I agree with this conclusion, but I disagree with the way you
have gotten there.

> To have robust 3rd-party development, one should not expect all
> contributing programmers to have advanced system administrative skills,
> because such an expectation would be self-defeating.

Also agreed.

Brad Knowles,

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania.

GCS/IT d+(-) s:+(++)>: a C++(+++)$ UMBSHI++++$ P+>++ L+ !E-(---) W+++(--) N+
!w--- O- M++ V PS++(+++) PE- Y+(++) PGP>+++ t+(+++) 5++(+++) X++(+++) R+(+++)
tv+(+++) b+(++++) DI+(++++) D+(++) G+(++++) e++>++++ h--- r---(+++)* z(+++)
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