On 0, Erik Trulsson wrote:
:> On 0, Erik Trulsson wrote:
:> :On Tue, Nov 25, 2003 at 01:44:26AM -0800, Allan Bowhill wrote:
:> :> On 0, Roman Neuhauser wrote:
:> :
:> :
:> :> :> :> > The skill sets are mutually exclusive.
:> :> :> :
:> :> :> : aha. you can't possess skill in both skiing and driving. the skill
:> :> :> : sets are mutually exclusive. eh?
:> :> :>
:> :> :> Yep. Skiiing is not driving, and driving is not skiiing.
:> :> :> They require mutually exclusive skill sets.


:> Knowing one set of skills does not necessarily preclude knowlege of the
:> other. In fact, one often complements the other. But that is ouside the
:> scope of the argument.
:
:But the only possible way I can interpret the statement "The skill sets
:are mutually exclusive." is that knowing one skill set precludes
:knowing the other. That is what that statement means.

You are changing the meaning of my statement and arguing against it,
pretending I said it. You are creating a straw man.

If you don't know what that is, see:
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/straw-man.html

:> Minus time, you should be able to see that the skill sets of system
:> administration skills and programming are mutually exclusive. The two
:> activities are so distinct, that you cannot do both at the same time.
:
:And here lies the linguistical problem with your argumentation.
:First you state that you cannot have both skills at the same time (this
:is what is meant by saying that they are mutually exclusive.)

Misattribution. If you read the thread, Mr. Neuhauser proposed there was
a connection between possession of skills and mutual exclusivity of
skill sets. He was being sarcastic.

In response, I merely agreed to the part of his statement that said the
skill sets were mutually exclusive.

I won't argue this point any further. I believe my position is clear.

:Writing firewall rules is a form of programming, as is configuring some
ieces of software, and even putting together complex command-lines.
:These are also all part of system administration. Again I do not see
:any clear distinction between the two.
:
:As you can see I disagree with your notion that system administration
:and programming are two distinct activities, but rather believe that
:many tasks fall into both categories at once.

Now we get to the real reason for your attack. You have an expanded
view of systems administration to include programming.

This may be a legitimate point, but I think it's open to debate, as
I said earlier.

My position, correct or not, is that systems administration and
programming are two fundamentally distinct and exclusive areas.

To tie this back to the original argument, I think the perception that
they are one in the same has led to unrealistic expectations on the Unix
front, that developers should also be expert systems administrators.

To have robust 3rd-party development, one should not expect all
contributing programmers to have advanced system administrative skills,
because such an expectation would be self-defeating.

--
Allan Bowhill
abowhill@blarg.net

Wombat's Laws of Computer Selection:
(1) If it doesn't run Unix, forget it.
(2) Any computer design over 10 years old is obsolete.
(3) Anything made by IBM is junk. (See number 2)
(4) The minimum acceptable CPU power for a single user is a
VAX/780 with a floating point accelerator.
(5) Any computer with a mouse is worthless.
-- Rich Kulawiec
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