The Classical Hour - Firewalls

This is a discussion on The Classical Hour - Firewalls ; We have just added another program to the line up on our station, that is attracting quite a few listeners, the Classical Hour. A couple times a we air an hourlong program of classical music which is apparently quite popular ...

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Thread: The Classical Hour

  1. The Classical Hour


    We have just added another program to the line up on our station,
    that is attracting quite a few listeners, the Classical Hour. A couple
    times a we air an hourlong program of classical music which is
    apparently quite popular with people working in offices.
    I have a listener in Sheffield, England, to that show, who uses a
    heavily encrypted tunnel to listen to that show, so she can enjoy, say,
    a Mozart symphony, and the boss wont know what she is up to. The boss
    will know that is a either a 64k or 256K (classical music demands a
    much higher bitrate than other audio broadcasts), encrypted outbound
    connection, but there is no POSSIBLE way they can find out that she was
    listening to Tchaikovsky's 6th Symphony in B minor "Pathetique", on
    her work computer, when she was on the other day, during an airing of
    the show. Even if they used Snort, of some other packet sniffer, they
    would have gotten nothing, as the data packets would have been
    encrypted.


  2. Re: The Classical Hour

    In article <1168255840.927919.34410@s34g2000cwa.googlegroups.c om>,
    chilly8@hotmail.com says...
    >
    > We have just added another program to the line up on our station,
    > that is attracting quite a few listeners, the Classical Hour. A couple
    > times a we air an hourlong program of classical music which is
    > apparently quite popular with people working in offices.
    > I have a listener in Sheffield, England, to that show, who uses a
    > heavily encrypted tunnel to listen to that show, so she can enjoy, say,
    > a Mozart symphony, and the boss wont know what she is up to. The boss
    > will know that is a either a 64k or 256K (classical music demands a
    > much higher bitrate than other audio broadcasts), encrypted outbound
    > connection, but there is no POSSIBLE way they can find out that she was
    > listening to Tchaikovsky's 6th Symphony in B minor "Pathetique", on
    > her work computer, when she was on the other day, during an airing of
    > the show. Even if they used Snort, of some other packet sniffer, they
    > would have gotten nothing, as the data packets would have been
    > encrypted.


    LOL, another company facilitating the breaking of company rules that
    doesn't understand that encryption means nothing when they can easily
    see the tunnel created between your location and their location - it's
    easy to spot a connection that's maintained, then track it to the
    workers computer, then fire that worker.

    The employer doesn't have to know WHAT she's listening too, only that
    she's got a connection to a non-approved site, where they can track the
    IP to the company that leases the IP, which means it's really easy to
    see that she's not working. Oh, and classical music doesn't require any
    different bit level, all music suffers from lower quality at lower bit
    rates.

    Are you the same moron that tried to offer the Olympics to people and
    then told them they could not be detected?

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  3. Re: The Classical Hour

    Chilly8 wrote:
    > We have just added another program to the line up on our station,
    > that is attracting quite a few listeners, the Classical Hour. A couple
    > times a we air an hourlong program of classical music which is
    > apparently quite popular with people working in offices.
    > I have a listener in Sheffield, England, to that show, who uses a
    > heavily encrypted tunnel to listen to that show, so she can enjoy, say,
    > a Mozart symphony, and the boss wont know what she is up to. The boss
    > will know that is a either a 64k or 256K (classical music demands a
    > much higher bitrate than other audio broadcasts), encrypted outbound
    > connection, but there is no POSSIBLE way they can find out that she was
    > listening to Tchaikovsky's 6th Symphony in B minor "Pathetique", on
    > her work computer, when she was on the other day, during an airing of
    > the show. Even if they used Snort, of some other packet sniffer, they
    > would have gotten nothing, as the data packets would have been
    > encrypted.
    >

    here goes the figureskater again...

  4. Re: The Classical Hour

    On Mon, 08 Jan 2007 13:35:09 +0000, Bogwitch
    wrote:

    >1. It is possible for the communications to be intercepted. You may find
    >that the organisation is using a proxy server, the data may be encrypted
    >from the streaming server to the proxy server, unencrypted, then
    >re-encrypted to the user, giving the user the impression they are
    >'undetectable'. The encryption sertificate issued to the user could just
    > as easily come from the proxy server as from the streaming server. It
    >is called a man-in-the-middle attack.


    It isn't necessarily an "attack" if the employer is doing it on purpose. I
    have firewalls that do this on a regular basis in order to detect illegal
    transmissions of sensitive material. Beware the idiot who tells you that
    the "boss" can't see what you're doing... ;-)

  5. Re: The Classical Hour


    Leythos wrote:
    > In article <1168255840.927919.34410@s34g2000cwa.googlegroups.c om>,
    > chilly8@hotmail.com says...
    > >
    > > We have just added another program to the line up on our station,
    > > that is attracting quite a few listeners, the Classical Hour. A couple
    > > times a we air an hourlong program of classical music which is
    > > apparently quite popular with people working in offices.
    > > I have a listener in Sheffield, England, to that show, who uses a
    > > heavily encrypted tunnel to listen to that show, so she can enjoy, say,
    > > a Mozart symphony, and the boss wont know what she is up to. The boss
    > > will know that is a either a 64k or 256K (classical music demands a
    > > much higher bitrate than other audio broadcasts), encrypted outbound
    > > connection, but there is no POSSIBLE way they can find out that she was
    > > listening to Tchaikovsky's 6th Symphony in B minor "Pathetique", on
    > > her work computer, when she was on the other day, during an airing of
    > > the show. Even if they used Snort, of some other packet sniffer, they
    > > would have gotten nothing, as the data packets would have been
    > > encrypted.

    >
    > LOL, another company facilitating the breaking of company rules that
    > doesn't understand that encryption means nothing when they can easily
    > see the tunnel created between your location and their location - it's
    > easy to spot a connection that's maintained, then track it to the
    > workers computer, then fire that worker.
    >
    > The employer doesn't have to know WHAT she's listening too, only that
    > she's got a connection to a non-approved site, where they can track the
    > IP to the company that leases the IP, which means it's really easy to
    > see that she's not working. Oh, and classical music doesn't require any
    > different bit level, all music suffers from lower quality at lower bit
    > rates.
    >
    > Are you the same moron that tried to offer the Olympics to people and
    > then told them they could not be detected?



    We do a LOT more than just figure skating. I even have my own talk
    show now on the station, which does a little bit of everything. During
    one of my 2 hour talk shows the other day, I had one guy gabbing with
    me for 45 minutes on my talk show, instead of working. Because I use
    Skype, I give listeners the option of calling me, or, me calling them.
    In most cases, its cheaper for me to call them, via Skype, than for
    them to call via traditional phone services. I call him on his cell
    phone, and we gabbed quite a bit about the issues. The Skype "history"
    shows that I had a minute call to him. Beucase I called him, instead of
    him calling me, there will be no record of the call on the company's
    phone bill. And since Skype "obfuscates" the caller-ID data, there is
    no way that his company will NEVER know that somoene from a radio talk
    show of any kind called him up. Skype sends a bunch of "nonsense"
    digites to any caller-ID box. It will either show of a bunch of
    nonsense digits, or say somehting like "Caller Unknown".
    He was gabbing with me, and debating a lot of current issues in
    the news, instead of working, for about 45 minutes. Beucase I called
    him, instead of him calling me, there is no POSSIBLE way for his
    employer to know that he was gabbing with me on my talk show for about
    45 minutes, instead of working. All he had to do was sign on to the
    chat room associated with my show, and them leave me his number, than I
    called him, and put him on the air. He would have stayed on the line a
    lot longer, but he had to go to a meeting, and had to cut the call
    short. Since the call was inbound, there would be no record of the call.


  6. Re: The Classical Hour

    In article <1168617603.750168.300620@11g2000cwr.googlegroups.c om>,
    chilly8@hotmail.com says...
    > He was gabbing with me, and debating a lot of current issues in
    > the news, instead of working, for about 45 minutes. Beucase I called
    > him, instead of him calling me, there is no POSSIBLE way for his
    > employer to know that he was gabbing with me on my talk show for about
    > 45 minutes, instead of working. All he had to do was sign on to the
    > chat room associated with my show, and them leave me his number, than I
    > called him, and put him on the air. He would have stayed on the line a
    > lot longer, but he had to go to a meeting, and had to cut the call
    > short. Since the call was inbound, there would be no record of the call.


    And you seem to think that businesses don't track in bound phone calls -
    almost every business I know of or have contact with does, in and out,
    by station/phone number and date/time and duration.

    Oh, and lets not forget the productivity issue, and the fact that any
    properly designed firewall solution would block his connection to your
    serivice.

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    remove 999 in order to email me

  7. Re: The Classical Hour


    Leythos wrote:
    > In article <1168617603.750168.300620@11g2000cwr.googlegroups.c om>,
    > chilly8@hotmail.com says...
    > > He was gabbing with me, and debating a lot of current issues in
    > > the news, instead of working, for about 45 minutes. Beucase I called
    > > him, instead of him calling me, there is no POSSIBLE way for his
    > > employer to know that he was gabbing with me on my talk show for about
    > > 45 minutes, instead of working. All he had to do was sign on to the
    > > chat room associated with my show, and them leave me his number, than I
    > > called him, and put him on the air. He would have stayed on the line a
    > > lot longer, but he had to go to a meeting, and had to cut the call
    > > short. Since the call was inbound, there would be no record of the call.

    >
    > And you seem to think that businesses don't track in bound phone calls -
    > almost every business I know of or have contact with does, in and out,
    > by station/phone number and date/time and duration.


    They may track inbound calls, but since calls made via Sekype either
    show a bunch of nonsense digits in caller-id records, or indicate the
    caller is uknown, they cannot know where the call was placed from.
    >
    > Oh, and lets not forget the productivity issue, and the fact that any
    > properly designed firewall solution would block his connection to your
    > serivice.


    I hae checked the domain for my serices in Websense, Bess, Sentian,
    SmatFilter, and SurfControl, and I am not on any of thier blacklists,
    so my show could still be heard in most workplaces. The way I have it
    is that I created a subromain under my domain, and pointed to an
    address and port on my server (I OWN that Ijnternet radio station),
    that acts as a "relay". This allows listeners to get past any filtering
    of Live 365, since its my server you asctually connect to, and it
    fetches the Live 365 feed, and the relays it to the listener. The only
    problem anyone would have would be with the station "sold out" and
    became avaialble to VIP listeners only. The filters would prevent
    someone from logging on to thier VIP account. But as long as the
    station is avaialble to free listeners, it can be heard in most
    worlpaces, since my domain/web site are not on any of the
    afforementioned products filtering lists.

    >
    > --
    >
    > spam999free@rrohio.com
    > remove 999 in order to email me



  8. Re: The Classical Hour

    In article <1168620732.710202.5110@a75g2000cwd.googlegroups.co m>,
    chilly8@hotmail.com says...
    > I hae checked the domain for my serices in Websense, Bess, Sentian,
    > SmatFilter, and SurfControl, and I am not on any of thier blacklists,
    > so my show could still be heard in most workplaces.


    Wrong on both idea - the call, even without caller ID is still recorded
    as connected, still shows that it was to the persons desk, and a 45
    minute call stands out.

    Next, any properly setup firewall would not allow connection to your
    site, as most of blocking setup to limit users to ONLY business partners
    and some other sites - and if the site is not identified then there is
    no access.

    Keep trying, you won't win in a properly designed network and you will
    be getting people fired.


    --

    spam999free@rrohio.com
    remove 999 in order to email me

  9. Re: The Classical Hour


    Leythos wrote:
    > In article <1168620732.710202.5110@a75g2000cwd.googlegroups.co m>,
    > chilly8@hotmail.com says...
    > > I hae checked the domain for my serices in Websense, Bess, Sentian,
    > > SmatFilter, and SurfControl, and I am not on any of thier blacklists,
    > > so my show could still be heard in most workplaces.

    >
    > Wrong on both idea - the call, even without caller ID is still recorded
    > as connected, still shows that it was to the persons desk, and a 45
    > minute call stands out.


    There have been some times where people will use their mobie
    phones, from work, to clal into my talk show. Since its their mobile
    phone provider that handles the traffic, there is no record on the
    company phone network. I know this because Skype, to many places around
    the world, charges more to call a mobile, than to call a landline.
    >
    > Next, any properly setup firewall would not allow connection to your
    > site, as most of blocking setup to limit users to ONLY business partners
    > and some other sites - and if the site is not identified then there is
    > no access.
    >
    > Keep trying, you won't win in a properly designed network and you will
    > be getting people fired.



    Websense, SurfControl, etc, etc, are used in nearly the entire
    Fortune 500. At any company using Bess, Websense, Bess, Sentian,
    SmartFilter, SurfControl, or WebWasher, my show can still be heard, if
    one goes through the "relay" I have set up on my server, which is
    currently not in any of the filtering lists on those products. And they
    are used by the majority of Fortune 500 companies, so people at most
    Fortune 500 companies could still tune in to my station.

    >
    > --
    >
    > spam999free@rrohio.com
    > remove 999 in order to email me



  10. Re: The Classical Hour

    In article <1168664476.815345.162210@38g2000cwa.googlegroups.c om>,
    chilly8@hotmail.com says...
    >
    > Websense, SurfControl, etc, etc, are used in nearly the entire
    > Fortune 500. At any company using Bess, Websense, Bess, Sentian,
    > SmartFilter, SurfControl, or WebWasher, my show can still be heard, if
    > one goes through the "relay" I have set up on my server, which is
    > currently not in any of the filtering lists on those products. And they
    > are used by the majority of Fortune 500 companies, so people at most
    > Fortune 500 companies could still tune in to my station.


    You seem to have missed that "one can not get to a relay" on a properly
    designed firewall solution.

  11. Re: The Classical Hour


    Leythos wrote:
    > In article <1168664476.815345.162210@38g2000cwa.googlegroups.c om>,
    > chilly8@hotmail.com says...
    > >
    > > Websense, SurfControl, etc, etc, are used in nearly the entire
    > > Fortune 500. At any company using Bess, Websense, Bess, Sentian,
    > > SmartFilter, SurfControl, or WebWasher, my show can still be heard, if
    > > one goes through the "relay" I have set up on my server, which is
    > > currently not in any of the filtering lists on those products. And they
    > > are used by the majority of Fortune 500 companies, so people at most
    > > Fortune 500 companies could still tune in to my station.

    >
    > You seem to have missed that "one can not get to a relay" on a properly
    > designed firewall solution.


    If the URL is not in the filtering lists of any of those filtering
    products I mentioned, they can still get through. A number of compaies,
    especially the Fortune 500, use those products, because of the
    convenience. Just set it, and forget it, and Websense, WebWasher,
    SurfControl, etc, etc, do all the work. All that needs to be done is
    make sure the filters are updates. In any company that uses, Bess,
    Sentian, SmartFilter, WebWasher, SurfControl, or WebSense, my web site
    and the relay for my radio station will still be accessible, because it
    is not on the filtering lists of those products. Unless and until it
    shows up in the filtering lists of those products (and I do check it
    quite often), most people working for Fortune 500 companies will still
    be able to access my radio station from work.
    When I am not doing live programming, I have an automated program
    of 80s and 90s music playing, and I do get quite a few hits them. I
    have seen someone from their workplace in Austin, Texas connect to my
    station from their workplace all day. Because they are using my server,
    it cannot be known. What happens is that when you click onto the audio
    link, either Windows Meida, or some other MP3-compatable player, will
    open, and then connect to my server, which will then connect to the
    Live 365 feed for my station, and relay the stream back to them. This
    defeats any screen shot software that would otherwise show them
    connected to Live 365. All one has to do once the connection starts is
    just minimise the Window, and software that takes a screen shot of the
    current screen will not see anything. Once Windows Media, Winamp, or a
    similar program starts, you can minimise the Window
    Also, if one bill, known as the PERFORM act, passes, all
    Webcasters, including me, that transmit streams that can be heard in
    the USA, will have to use an DRM-laden stream that would be encrypted.
    With the DRM-laden streams, that means that admins will not be able to
    intercept the communications, through any program, such as Snort, and
    if they do try it, they will be committing a felony under the DMCA.
    Only the users running Real or Windows Media will be able to decrypt
    and data streams. So called "man in the middle attacks" will effective
    become a felony.


  12. Re: The Classical Hour

    In article <1168776656.998219.192790@11g2000cwr.googlegroups.c om>,
    chilly8@hotmail.com says...
    > If the URL is not in the filtering lists of any of those filtering
    > products I mentioned, they can still get through. A number of compaies,
    > especially the Fortune 500, use those products, because of the
    > convenience. Just set it, and forget it, and Websense, WebWasher,
    > SurfControl, etc, etc, do all the work. All that needs to be done is
    > make sure the filters are updates. In any company that uses, Bess,
    > Sentian, SmartFilter, WebWasher, SurfControl, or WebSense, my web site
    > and the relay for my radio station will still be accessible, because it
    > is not on the filtering lists of those products. Unless and until it
    > shows up in the filtering lists of those products (and I do check it
    > quite often), most people working for Fortune 500 companies will still
    > be able to access my radio station from work.


    What you seem to be missing is that companies don't just implement "web
    sense" or any of the others and not also check or restrict access to the
    web, so, your site would not, in any way, be reachable from a properly
    configured firewall solution.

    As an example, in more than 70 of our customers sites, everything from 5
    person shops to small medical centers with hundreds of nodes, not one of
    them would be able to reach your service or any proxy or any relay,
    because we've properly secured the network.

    Did you know that you can setup those filters so that if it's not
    identified as good that people can't reach them?

    Your complete lack of understanding of security has not changed.

    Did you know every firewall appliance can easily identify what you are
    saying they won't see?

    --
    spam999free@rrohio.com
    remove 999 in order to email me

  13. Re: The Classical Hour

    chilly8@hotmail.com wrote:
    > Leythos wrote:
    >> In article <1168664476.815345.162210@38g2000cwa.googlegroups.c om>,
    >> chilly8@hotmail.com says...
    >>> Websense, SurfControl, etc, etc, are used in nearly the entire
    >>> Fortune 500. At any company using Bess, Websense, Bess, Sentian,
    >>> SmartFilter, SurfControl, or WebWasher, my show can still be heard, if
    >>> one goes through the "relay" I have set up on my server, which is
    >>> currently not in any of the filtering lists on those products. And they
    >>> are used by the majority of Fortune 500 companies, so people at most
    >>> Fortune 500 companies could still tune in to my station.

    >> You seem to have missed that "one can not get to a relay" on a properly
    >> designed firewall solution.

    >
    > If the URL is not in the filtering lists of any of those filtering
    > products I mentioned, they can still get through. A number of compaies,
    > especially the Fortune 500, use those products, because of the
    > convenience. Just set it, and forget it, and Websense, WebWasher,
    > SurfControl, etc, etc, do all the work. All that needs to be done is
    > make sure the filters are updates. In any company that uses, Bess,
    > Sentian, SmartFilter, WebWasher, SurfControl, or WebSense, my web site
    > and the relay for my radio station will still be accessible, because it
    > is not on the filtering lists of those products. Unless and until it
    > shows up in the filtering lists of those products (and I do check it
    > quite often), most people working for Fortune 500 companies will still
    > be able to access my radio station from work.
    > When I am not doing live programming, I have an automated program
    > of 80s and 90s music playing, and I do get quite a few hits them. I
    > have seen someone from their workplace in Austin, Texas connect to my
    > station from their workplace all day. Because they are using my server,
    > it cannot be known. What happens is that when you click onto the audio
    > link, either Windows Meida, or some other MP3-compatable player, will
    > open, and then connect to my server, which will then connect to the
    > Live 365 feed for my station, and relay the stream back to them. This
    > defeats any screen shot software that would otherwise show them
    > connected to Live 365. All one has to do once the connection starts is
    > just minimise the Window, and software that takes a screen shot of the
    > current screen will not see anything. Once Windows Media, Winamp, or a
    > similar program starts, you can minimise the Window
    > Also, if one bill, known as the PERFORM act, passes, all
    > Webcasters, including me, that transmit streams that can be heard in
    > the USA, will have to use an DRM-laden stream that would be encrypted.
    > With the DRM-laden streams, that means that admins will not be able to
    > intercept the communications, through any program, such as Snort, and
    > if they do try it, they will be committing a felony under the DMCA.
    > Only the users running Real or Windows Media will be able to decrypt
    > and data streams. So called "man in the middle attacks" will effective
    > become a felony.


    Chilly,

    Are YOU responsible for the security of your servers?

    Bogwitch.

  14. Re: The Classical Hour


    Bogwitch wrote:
    > chilly8@hotmail.com wrote:
    > > Leythos wrote:
    > >> In article <1168664476.815345.162210@38g2000cwa.googlegroups.c om>,
    > >> chilly8@hotmail.com says...
    > >>> Websense, SurfControl, etc, etc, are used in nearly the entire
    > >>> Fortune 500. At any company using Bess, Websense, Bess, Sentian,
    > >>> SmartFilter, SurfControl, or WebWasher, my show can still be heard, if
    > >>> one goes through the "relay" I have set up on my server, which is
    > >>> currently not in any of the filtering lists on those products. And they
    > >>> are used by the majority of Fortune 500 companies, so people at most
    > >>> Fortune 500 companies could still tune in to my station.
    > >> You seem to have missed that "one can not get to a relay" on a properly
    > >> designed firewall solution.

    > >
    > > If the URL is not in the filtering lists of any of those filtering
    > > products I mentioned, they can still get through. A number of compaies,
    > > especially the Fortune 500, use those products, because of the
    > > convenience. Just set it, and forget it, and Websense, WebWasher,
    > > SurfControl, etc, etc, do all the work. All that needs to be done is
    > > make sure the filters are updates. In any company that uses, Bess,
    > > Sentian, SmartFilter, WebWasher, SurfControl, or WebSense, my web site
    > > and the relay for my radio station will still be accessible, because it
    > > is not on the filtering lists of those products. Unless and until it
    > > shows up in the filtering lists of those products (and I do check it
    > > quite often), most people working for Fortune 500 companies will still
    > > be able to access my radio station from work.
    > > When I am not doing live programming, I have an automated program
    > > of 80s and 90s music playing, and I do get quite a few hits them. I
    > > have seen someone from their workplace in Austin, Texas connect to my
    > > station from their workplace all day. Because they are using my server,
    > > it cannot be known. What happens is that when you click onto the audio
    > > link, either Windows Meida, or some other MP3-compatable player, will
    > > open, and then connect to my server, which will then connect to the
    > > Live 365 feed for my station, and relay the stream back to them. This
    > > defeats any screen shot software that would otherwise show them
    > > connected to Live 365. All one has to do once the connection starts is
    > > just minimise the Window, and software that takes a screen shot of the
    > > current screen will not see anything. Once Windows Media, Winamp, or a
    > > similar program starts, you can minimise the Window
    > > Also, if one bill, known as the PERFORM act, passes, all
    > > Webcasters, including me, that transmit streams that can be heard in
    > > the USA, will have to use an DRM-laden stream that would be encrypted.
    > > With the DRM-laden streams, that means that admins will not be able to
    > > intercept the communications, through any program, such as Snort, and
    > > if they do try it, they will be committing a felony under the DMCA.
    > > Only the users running Real or Windows Media will be able to decrypt
    > > and data streams. So called "man in the middle attacks" will effective
    > > become a felony.

    >
    > Chilly,
    >
    > Are YOU responsible for the security of your servers?



    Since I own and run my radio station, I am responsible for the
    security of all related servers, as well. But here is the rub, I put
    the "relay" for my Live 365 feed on a port other than the 80, 1755, or
    8000 (The most commonly used ports for streaming MP3), so that also
    puts it under the radar of many admins, since its not using a commonly
    used port. Snort, or somilar programs, would only be sniffing those
    ports.
    I know of a few other online radio stations that use such tricks
    too, for thier Live 365 feeds. There is one "gangsta rap" station, that
    has such a link from its website to Live 365. This guy, running a
    station out of his home in the projects of Compton, California, has a
    relay set up through his DSL feed, that lets anyone come through his
    server, to his Live 365 feed. This way, someone can get his station,
    and the boss wont know about it. He has had a lot of people down in the
    LA area access his station. Becuase of the large black and hispanic
    population in the LA area, such stations are popular. A lot of people
    in Los Angeles area workplaces, are tuning into his Hip Hop/Rap
    station, by bouncing through his computer in Compton, and admins are
    totally unaware of what is going on. All theu know is that someone is
    connecting to an AT&T DSL conneciton in Compton, but where they go
    beyond that, the admins cannot find out. He bypasses all the major
    blacklists, by doing this.


  15. Re: The Classical Hour

    chilly8@hotmail.com wrote:
    > Bogwitch wrote:
    >> chilly8@hotmail.com wrote:
    >>> Leythos wrote:
    >>>> In article <1168664476.815345.162210@38g2000cwa.googlegroups.c om>,
    >>>> chilly8@hotmail.com says...
    >>>>> Websense, SurfControl, etc, etc, are used in nearly the entire
    >>>>> Fortune 500. At any company using Bess, Websense, Bess, Sentian,
    >>>>> SmartFilter, SurfControl, or WebWasher, my show can still be heard, if
    >>>>> one goes through the "relay" I have set up on my server, which is
    >>>>> currently not in any of the filtering lists on those products. And they
    >>>>> are used by the majority of Fortune 500 companies, so people at most
    >>>>> Fortune 500 companies could still tune in to my station.
    >>>> You seem to have missed that "one can not get to a relay" on a properly
    >>>> designed firewall solution.
    >>> If the URL is not in the filtering lists of any of those filtering
    >>> products I mentioned, they can still get through. A number of compaies,
    >>> especially the Fortune 500, use those products, because of the
    >>> convenience. Just set it, and forget it, and Websense, WebWasher,
    >>> SurfControl, etc, etc, do all the work. All that needs to be done is
    >>> make sure the filters are updates. In any company that uses, Bess,
    >>> Sentian, SmartFilter, WebWasher, SurfControl, or WebSense, my web site
    >>> and the relay for my radio station will still be accessible, because it
    >>> is not on the filtering lists of those products. Unless and until it
    >>> shows up in the filtering lists of those products (and I do check it
    >>> quite often), most people working for Fortune 500 companies will still
    >>> be able to access my radio station from work.
    >>> When I am not doing live programming, I have an automated program
    >>> of 80s and 90s music playing, and I do get quite a few hits them. I
    >>> have seen someone from their workplace in Austin, Texas connect to my
    >>> station from their workplace all day. Because they are using my server,
    >>> it cannot be known. What happens is that when you click onto the audio
    >>> link, either Windows Meida, or some other MP3-compatable player, will
    >>> open, and then connect to my server, which will then connect to the
    >>> Live 365 feed for my station, and relay the stream back to them. This
    >>> defeats any screen shot software that would otherwise show them
    >>> connected to Live 365. All one has to do once the connection starts is
    >>> just minimise the Window, and software that takes a screen shot of the
    >>> current screen will not see anything. Once Windows Media, Winamp, or a
    >>> similar program starts, you can minimise the Window
    >>> Also, if one bill, known as the PERFORM act, passes, all
    >>> Webcasters, including me, that transmit streams that can be heard in
    >>> the USA, will have to use an DRM-laden stream that would be encrypted.
    >>> With the DRM-laden streams, that means that admins will not be able to
    >>> intercept the communications, through any program, such as Snort, and
    >>> if they do try it, they will be committing a felony under the DMCA.
    >>> Only the users running Real or Windows Media will be able to decrypt
    >>> and data streams. So called "man in the middle attacks" will effective
    >>> become a felony.

    >> Chilly,
    >>
    >> Are YOU responsible for the security of your servers?

    >
    >
    > Since I own and run my radio station, I am responsible for the
    > security of all related servers, as well.


    Responsible, yes. Do you /administer/ the security?

    But here is the rub, I put
    > the "relay" for my Live 365 feed on a port other than the 80, 1755, or
    > 8000 (The most commonly used ports for streaming MP3), so that also
    > puts it under the radar of many admins, since its not using a commonly
    > used port. Snort, or somilar programs, would only be sniffing those
    > ports.


    I only allow a very small subset of ports outbound from my organisations
    Internet access network, your services would almost certainly be blocked.


    Do you administer the security? Can you remind me of the name of your
    organisation please? If you feel like it, you could give me the IP range
    you've been assigned, too.

    Bogwitch.

  16. Re: The Classical Hour

    In article <1168788773.474500.327320@s34g2000cwa.googlegroups. com>,
    chilly8@hotmail.com says...
    > Since I own and run my radio station, I am responsible for the
    > security of all related servers, as well. But here is the rub, I put
    > the "relay" for my Live 365 feed on a port other than the 80, 1755, or
    > 8000 (The most commonly used ports for streaming MP3), so that also
    > puts it under the radar of many admins, since its not using a commonly
    > used port. Snort, or somilar programs, would only be sniffing those
    > ports.


    And traffic on any non-standard port would be automatically blocked by
    default on a properly setup firewall.

    Now, your non-standard port would stand out like a shining beacon in the
    moonless night - as a matter of fact, traffic on non-standard ports is
    the easiest to spot.

    Also, as to your claim about doing a proxy/relay through a residential
    computer network, that's another bright beacon - as there is almost no
    reason for anyone in a business to be connecting to a residential
    network from their office, not to mention that the firewall would still
    block it/you.

    --

    spam999free@rrohio.com
    remove 999 in order to email me

  17. Re: The Classical Hour

    In article <1168788773.474500.327320@s34g2000cwa.googlegroups. com>,
    chilly8@hotmail.com says...
    > A lot of people
    > in Los Angeles area workplaces, are tuning into his Hip Hop/Rap
    > station, by bouncing through his computer in Compton, and admins are
    > totally unaware of what is going on. All theu know is that someone is
    > connecting to an AT&T DSL conneciton in Compton, but where they go
    > beyond that, the admins cannot find out. He bypasses all the major
    > blacklists, by doing this.


    And the only reason it works for them is because their admin is an idiot
    that doesn't know anything about network security.

    As they form a constant connection to a RESIDENTIAL IP in order to use
    the relay, it's a easy to spot connection, that could be spotted in
    minutes, even on a busy network.

    Oh, and since Residential Networks (and many others) have no reason to
    be permitted as a connection point, it would never be able to be
    connected to on a properly configured network.

    --
    spam999free@rrohio.com
    remove 999 in order to email me

  18. Re: The Classical Hour


    "Leythos" wrote in message
    news:MPG.2014917bc265ae4a9896a4@adfree.usenet.com. ..
    > In article <1168788773.474500.327320@s34g2000cwa.googlegroups. com>,
    > chilly8@hotmail.com says...
    > > A lot of people
    > > in Los Angeles area workplaces, are tuning into his Hip Hop/Rap
    > > station, by bouncing through his computer in Compton, and admins are
    > > totally unaware of what is going on. All theu know is that someone is
    > > connecting to an AT&T DSL conneciton in Compton, but where they go
    > > beyond that, the admins cannot find out. He bypasses all the major
    > > blacklists, by doing this.

    >
    > And the only reason it works for them is because their admin is an idiot
    > that doesn't know anything about network security.
    >
    > As they form a constant connection to a RESIDENTIAL IP in order to use
    > the relay, it's a easy to spot connection, that could be spotted in
    > minutes, even on a busy network.
    >
    > Oh, and since Residential Networks (and many others) have no reason to
    > be permitted as a connection point, it would never be able to be
    > connected to on a properly configured network.



    This guy has obviously never heard of CyBlock. The
    one thing that makes CyBlock effective is that you
    can select a category known as "other", which
    automatically blocks anything not classified one way
    of the other in any of the other categories. He would
    not get past CyBlock, if it were configured properly.
    Catergorization of content is one thing that hardware
    firewalls have not learned yet, except for a few
    models made by Cisco that can load and run a
    version of Bess that has been ported to them.
    Cisco makes the only hardware appliances in the
    world that are capable of filtering by category, and
    that is only if you purchase the versions of Bess, and
    other Secure Computing products, made for Cisco
    firewalls.



  19. Re: The Classical Hour


    wrote in message
    news:1168788773.474500.327320@s34g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
    >
    > Bogwitch wrote:
    > > chilly8@hotmail.com wrote:
    > > > Leythos wrote:
    > > >> In article <1168664476.815345.162210@38g2000cwa.googlegroups.c om>,
    > > >> chilly8@hotmail.com says...
    > > >>> Websense, SurfControl, etc, etc, are used in nearly the entire
    > > >>> Fortune 500. At any company using Bess, Websense, Bess, Sentian,
    > > >>> SmartFilter, SurfControl, or WebWasher, my show can still be heard,

    if
    > > >>> one goes through the "relay" I have set up on my server, which is
    > > >>> currently not in any of the filtering lists on those products. And

    they
    > > >>> are used by the majority of Fortune 500 companies, so people at most
    > > >>> Fortune 500 companies could still tune in to my station.
    > > >> You seem to have missed that "one can not get to a relay" on a

    properly
    > > >> designed firewall solution.
    > > >
    > > > If the URL is not in the filtering lists of any of those filtering
    > > > products I mentioned, they can still get through. A number of

    compaies,
    > > > especially the Fortune 500, use those products, because of the
    > > > convenience. Just set it, and forget it, and Websense, WebWasher,
    > > > SurfControl, etc, etc, do all the work. All that needs to be done is
    > > > make sure the filters are updates. In any company that uses, Bess,
    > > > Sentian, SmartFilter, WebWasher, SurfControl, or WebSense, my web site
    > > > and the relay for my radio station will still be accessible, because

    it
    > > > is not on the filtering lists of those products. Unless and until it
    > > > shows up in the filtering lists of those products (and I do check it
    > > > quite often), most people working for Fortune 500 companies will still
    > > > be able to access my radio station from work.
    > > > When I am not doing live programming, I have an automated program
    > > > of 80s and 90s music playing, and I do get quite a few hits them. I
    > > > have seen someone from their workplace in Austin, Texas connect to my
    > > > station from their workplace all day. Because they are using my

    server,
    > > > it cannot be known. What happens is that when you click onto the audio
    > > > link, either Windows Meida, or some other MP3-compatable player, will
    > > > open, and then connect to my server, which will then connect to the
    > > > Live 365 feed for my station, and relay the stream back to them. This
    > > > defeats any screen shot software that would otherwise show them
    > > > connected to Live 365. All one has to do once the connection starts is
    > > > just minimise the Window, and software that takes a screen shot of the
    > > > current screen will not see anything. Once Windows Media, Winamp, or a
    > > > similar program starts, you can minimise the Window
    > > > Also, if one bill, known as the PERFORM act, passes, all
    > > > Webcasters, including me, that transmit streams that can be heard in
    > > > the USA, will have to use an DRM-laden stream that would be encrypted.
    > > > With the DRM-laden streams, that means that admins will not be able to
    > > > intercept the communications, through any program, such as Snort, and
    > > > if they do try it, they will be committing a felony under the DMCA.
    > > > Only the users running Real or Windows Media will be able to decrypt
    > > > and data streams. So called "man in the middle attacks" will effective
    > > > become a felony.

    > >
    > > Chilly,
    > >
    > > Are YOU responsible for the security of your servers?

    >
    >
    > Since I own and run my radio station, I am responsible for the
    > security of all related servers, as well. But here is the rub, I put
    > the "relay" for my Live 365 feed on a port other than the 80, 1755, or
    > 8000 (The most commonly used ports for streaming MP3), so that also
    > puts it under the radar of many admins, since its not using a commonly
    > used port. Snort, or somilar programs, would only be sniffing those
    > ports.
    > I know of a few other online radio stations that use such tricks
    > too, for thier Live 365 feeds. There is one "gangsta rap" station, that
    > has such a link from its website to Live 365. This guy, running a
    > station out of his home in the projects of Compton, California, has a
    > relay set up through his DSL feed, that lets anyone come through his
    > server, to his Live 365 feed. This way, someone can get his station,
    > and the boss wont know about it. He has had a lot of people down in the
    > LA area access his station. Becuase of the large black and hispanic
    > population in the LA area, such stations are popular. A lot of people
    > in Los Angeles area workplaces, are tuning into his Hip Hop/Rap
    > station, by bouncing through his computer in Compton, and admins are
    > totally unaware of what is going on. All theu know is that someone is
    > connecting to an AT&T DSL conneciton in Compton, but where they go
    > beyond that, the admins cannot find out. He bypasses all the major
    > blacklists, by doing this.
    >


    Hey idiot, ever heard of Cisco? They make the only
    firewall appliances in the world that support filtering
    by category.



  20. Re: The Classical Hour

    In article ,
    chuck@backtalkradio.spammers.will.hu...ntil.dead.backtalkra
    dio.net says...
    > Hey idiot, ever heard of Cisco? They make the only
    > firewall appliances in the world that support filtering
    > by category.


    Wrong, every major vendor povides that option - Sonic, WatchGuard,
    etc...

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