Likelihood of IT using a Packet Sniffer - Firewalls

This is a discussion on Likelihood of IT using a Packet Sniffer - Firewalls ; In article , b__nice@hotmail.com says... > On Tue, 12 Aug 2008 17:56:00 -0400, Leythos wrote: > > >And for many companies, it's not a trust issue, it's a COST issue. We've > >documented many cases where about 3% of the ...

+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2
Results 21 to 31 of 31

Thread: Likelihood of IT using a Packet Sniffer

  1. Re: Likelihood of IT using a Packet Sniffer

    In article <72u4a45okm6v9kv9qsish4urvl087iaui2@4ax.com>,
    b__nice@hotmail.com says...
    > On Tue, 12 Aug 2008 17:56:00 -0400, Leythos wrote:
    >
    > >And for many companies, it's not a trust issue, it's a COST issue. We've
    > >documented many cases where about 3% of the workers waste real hours per
    > >day doing "Personal" internet things instead of working.

    >
    > Did you also take into consideration the possible loss of productivity
    > caused by unmotivated workers?


    Yep, and the workers that continued to abuse the system or attempted to
    abuse it were fired. The other workers either maintained or increased
    productivity in all cases. Overall, productivity increases in double
    digits between no-blocking and proper blocking implementations.

    > Not everything that's countable counts and not everything that counts
    > is countable.


    Did you take into account that before email and common internet access,
    that workers managed to work while at work....


    > >You're right about it being a symptom, it's a symptom of how few ethics
    > >some people have, how people have adopted the mindset that the Company
    > >OWES THEM A JOB.....

    >
    > BS. It's just about the straight line between job and private life
    > loosening up.
    >
    > Ethics is a subjective matter which changes over time.


    No, ethics don't change, at least GOOD Ethics don't change, people just
    become more tolerant of abuse than before.

    > >When you're at work, work.

    >
    > Okay. So when at home I accidentally get to think of my job or maybe
    > come to think of a good idea that's job related I can claim an extra
    > pay for that or take a day off.


    Which changes nothing - at work you work.

    --
    - Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
    - Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a
    drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"
    spam999free@rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)

  2. Re: Likelihood of IT using a Packet Sniffer

    In article ,
    b__nice@hotmail.com says...
    > On Tue, 12 Aug 2008 17:56:00 -0400, Leythos wrote:
    >
    > >And for many companies, it's not a trust issue, it's a COST issue. We've
    > >documented many cases where about 3% of the workers waste real hours per
    > >day doing "Personal" internet things instead of working.

    >
    > In many companies real hours are "lost" from smokers going to the
    > smoking area for a break. It's a cost / benefit issue.


    Yes, it is a loss, but, it can be controlled also.

    --
    - Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
    - Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a
    drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"
    spam999free@rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)

  3. Re: Likelihood of IT using a Packet Sniffer

    s|b wrote:

    >
    > In Belgium, if the IT department wants to check up on you, they are
    > obliged by law (CAO nr. 81) to inform the employee(s) about this
    > /before/ they start checking up on him/her/them. Not informing them is
    > considered illegal and an invasion of privacy.
    >

    Yes,it's like that in many european countries.
    And if the company has a work council, they have to be present, while personal logs are being viewed.

    - and that's where employees get the attitude from, that they think
    they have a right to use company resources for private pleasure.


    But if they signed a policy not to do that, they still can be fired for abusing their "right".
    The procedure just makes a big fuzz and the employer is looked at as dictator, who doesnt't respect privacy.


    And the funny part: if the employer allows personal email use per policy, then he is considered "provider of telkom
    services" and therefore has to adhere to the same principles as any email provider.

    What's next - the employee sues his employer for not backing up personal emails?

    So I say: don't allow personal use of company resources per policy, install technical measures to prevent it, and then
    allow e.g. surfing outside the office hours and for lunchbreak. Or install a couple surfing stations, that are separated
    from your network and are being reset to default every night. They can use webmail - no need for pop etc. Chat? No.
    Personal phone calls? of course.(the collegue in the same room will get annoyed pretty soon...)

    And no, you can't bring your personal laptop into the premises.

    just my 2c,

    M

  4. Re: Likelihood of IT using a Packet Sniffer

    On Wed, 13 Aug 2008 12:08:32 -0400, Leythos wrote:

    >In article <72u4a45okm6v9kv9qsish4urvl087iaui2@4ax.com>,
    >b__nice@hotmail.com says...
    >> On Tue, 12 Aug 2008 17:56:00 -0400, Leythos wrote:
    >>
    >> >And for many companies, it's not a trust issue, it's a COST issue. We've
    >> >documented many cases where about 3% of the workers waste real hours per
    >> >day doing "Personal" internet things instead of working.

    >>
    >> Did you also take into consideration the possible loss of productivity
    >> caused by unmotivated workers?

    >
    >Yep, and the workers that continued to abuse the system or attempted to
    >abuse it were fired.


    If warned beforehand, that's fair enough. I'm absolutely convinced
    though, that those who were fired weren't that crucial to the
    companies anyway.

    >The other workers either maintained or increased
    >productivity in all cases. Overall, productivity increases in double
    >digits between no-blocking and proper blocking implementations.


    There are 3 grades of lies: Small lies, big lies and statistics.

    >> Not everything that's countable counts and not everything that counts
    >> is countable.

    >
    >Did you take into account that before email and common internet access,
    >that workers managed to work while at work....


    Did you take into account that the world is changing and mankind
    evolves?

    >> >You're right about it being a symptom, it's a symptom of how few ethics
    >> >some people have, how people have adopted the mindset that the Company
    >> >OWES THEM A JOB.....

    >>
    >> BS. It's just about the straight line between job and private life
    >> loosening up.
    >>
    >> Ethics is a subjective matter which changes over time.

    >
    >No, ethics don't change, at least GOOD Ethics don't change, people just
    >become more tolerant of abuse than before.


    Ethics are manmade and changes over time. History proves you wrong.

    >> >When you're at work, work.

    >>
    >> Okay. So when at home I accidentally get to think of my job or maybe
    >> come to think of a good idea that's job related I can claim an extra
    >> pay for that or take a day off.

    >
    >Which changes nothing - at work you work.


    I'm just glad I don't work for any of the companies that have been
    hurt by your old school thinking.

  5. Re: Likelihood of IT using a Packet Sniffer

    DevilsPGD wrote in
    news:3267a4d0jp72gn9vdop68c10jo76bs6pmd@4ax.com:

    > I'm partial to taking the CEO
    > and/or VP out drinking myself (I don't drink, but they're good company)
    > which can often kill the better part of a day (or three).


    What color is your nose?

    Brian
    --
    http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism
    Seismic FAQ: http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html
    Quake "predictions": http://www.skywise711.com/quakes/EQDB/index.html
    Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?

  6. Re: Likelihood of IT using a Packet Sniffer

    Skywise writes:

    > DevilsPGD wrote in
    > news:3267a4d0jp72gn9vdop68c10jo76bs6pmd@4ax.com:
    >
    >> I'm partial to taking the CEO
    >> and/or VP out drinking myself (I don't drink, but they're good company)
    >> which can often kill the better part of a day (or three).

    >
    > What color is your nose?


    Precious metal of some sort would be my guess. Particularly in a
    lousy economy, it's never bad to have folks above you know you. It's
    not brown nosing, it's just smart career planning. And lo and behold,
    sometimes these folks are good company besides. Then again, sometimes
    not.


    --
    Todd H.
    http://www.toddh.net/

  7. Re: Likelihood of IT using a Packet Sniffer

    In message Skywise
    wrote:

    >DevilsPGD wrote in
    >news:3267a4d0jp72gn9vdop68c10jo76bs6pmd@4ax.com:
    >
    >> I'm partial to taking the CEO
    >> and/or VP out drinking myself (I don't drink, but they're good company)
    >> which can often kill the better part of a day (or three).

    >
    >What color is your nose?


    I've been friends with the upper management and most of the seniour
    people around the company since before I started.

    *shrugs*

  8. Re: Likelihood of IT using a Packet Sniffer

    On Wed, 13 Aug 2008 06:34:44 +0000, Root Kit wrote:

    > On Tue, 12 Aug 2008 17:56:00 -0400, Leythos wrote:
    >
    >>And for many companies, it's not a trust issue, it's a COST issue. We've
    >>documented many cases where about 3% of the workers waste real hours per
    >>day doing "Personal" internet things instead of working.

    >
    > In many companies real hours are "lost" from smokers going to the
    > smoking area for a break. It's a cost / benefit issue.


    omg an anti-smoke crusader.

    in many companies real hours are lost from coffeedrinkers
    gossiping in the cafeteria as well.

  9. Re: Likelihood of IT using a Packet Sniffer

    DevilsPGD wrote in
    news:sl1ba4l12itmv1bdfsu0hd4m41717gu0u5@4ax.com:

    > In message Skywise
    > wrote:
    >
    >>DevilsPGD wrote in
    >>news:3267a4d0jp72gn9vdop68c10jo76bs6pmd@4ax.com:
    >>
    >>> I'm partial to taking the CEO
    >>> and/or VP out drinking myself (I don't drink, but they're good company)
    >>> which can often kill the better part of a day (or three).

    >>
    >>What color is your nose?

    >
    > I've been friends with the upper management and most of the seniour
    > people around the company since before I started.


    Well, that kinda puts things into a different context then.

    My apologies.

    Brian
    --
    http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism
    Seismic FAQ: http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html
    Quake "predictions": http://www.skywise711.com/quakes/EQDB/index.html
    Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?

  10. Re: Likelihood of IT using a Packet Sniffer

    On 15 Aug 2008 20:23:51 GMT, goarilla
    wrote:

    >On Wed, 13 Aug 2008 06:34:44 +0000, Root Kit wrote:
    >
    >> On Tue, 12 Aug 2008 17:56:00 -0400, Leythos wrote:
    >>
    >>>And for many companies, it's not a trust issue, it's a COST issue. We've
    >>>documented many cases where about 3% of the workers waste real hours per
    >>>day doing "Personal" internet things instead of working.

    >>
    >> In many companies real hours are "lost" from smokers going to the
    >> smoking area for a break. It's a cost / benefit issue.

    >
    >omg an anti-smoke crusader.


    Not at all. Learn to think dialectical.

    >in many companies real hours are lost from coffeedrinkers
    >gossiping in the cafeteria as well.


    Thanks for supporting my point.

  11. Re: Likelihood of IT using a Packet Sniffer

    In article ,
    b__nice@hotmail.com says...
    > Motivated people make personal phone calls now and then. Motivated
    > people visit non work related internet sites now and then to refresh
    > their brains. All people need to take a break of some kind now and
    > then - otherwise they burn out. Healthy workers understand that. It's
    > not about personal "rights" as you call it - it's about common sense
    > and human understanding.
    >


    Motivated people often abuse company policy also, but that doesn't make
    them good employees.

    Most companies tolerate a little violation of company policy, but, if
    you're going to use "Policy" as a means to enforce rules, well, if you
    don't apply it the same to everyone then you'll have a hard time when
    you fire someone for violating the rules that others are breaking, at
    least legally you will have problems.

    You're on the side that people should be able to use the company network
    as needed as long as they get their work done. I'm on the side that sees
    networks compromised by those types of people and believes that personal
    use should not be permitted because of the loss of productivity and risk
    to the network.

    We'll have to agree to disagree on principals.

    --
    - Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
    - Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a
    drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"
    spam999free@rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)

+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2