you get what you ask - DICOM

This is a discussion on you get what you ask - DICOM ; Hello, i have big trouble with my colleague.. Let me explain.. we are examining the product of carruasoft Test SCU. it ask on Study Model Study Level question. it sends c-find query which ask study id, accesion number, modality etc ...

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  1. you get what you ask

    Hello,

    i have big trouble with my colleague.. Let me explain..

    we are examining the product of carruasoft Test SCU. it ask on Study
    Model Study Level question. it sends c-find query which ask study id,
    accesion number, modality etc which are belongs to study.. it doesnt
    ask Patient ID, Patient Name.. Online Server for test aim gives also
    patient information -id, name, etc. -, to it although test scu doesnt
    ask about them in its c-find packet. I'm telling my colleague that
    another server doesnt have to give patient information.. coz you get
    what you ask. I'm also telling him, you must have Type 1 and
    Required fields, but it doesnt mean that you have to sent to client
    these information when they are not asked...

    Please tell me am i wrong ?

    Thanks in advance
    Regards,
    Atila Gunes

    i just find this today which supports my knowledge :

    Hi Wayne

    The SCP has to return it if asked, since it is Type 1.


    But it should only return it if asked (present in request
    with zero length), and not otherwise.


    This is a basic rule for all query SCPs in DICOM - do not
    return anything more than asked (unless it is specifically
    described in the response description in the standard as
    being additionally allowed or required).


    David
    http://groups.google.com.tr/group/co...060a73db4b2fc0


  2. Re: you get what you ask

    i'm sorry for trouble here for test SCU and also online server. i
    realised that Test SCU asks. just my colleague 's program couldnt
    capture that tags.. But he still want to believe in that "you get what
    you ask" rule.. he still thinks that, even he doesnt ask about patient
    id, he must get the answer..



    On 14 Nisan, 14:53, "Atila Gunes" wrote:
    > Hello,
    >
    > i have big trouble with my colleague.. Let me explain..
    >
    > we are examining the product of carruasoft Test SCU. it ask on Study
    > Model Study Level question. it sends c-find query which ask study id,
    > accesion number, modality etc which are belongs to study.. it doesnt
    > ask Patient ID, Patient Name.. Online Server for test aim gives also
    > patient information -id, name, etc. -, to it although test scu doesnt
    > ask about them in its c-find packet. I'm telling my colleague that
    > another server doesnt have to give patient information.. coz you get
    > what you ask. I'm also telling him, you must have Type 1 and
    > Required fields, but it doesnt mean that you have to sent to client
    > these information when they are not asked...
    >
    > Please tell me am i wrong ?
    >
    > Thanks in advance
    > Regards,
    > Atila Gunes
    >
    > i just find this today which supports my knowledge :
    >
    > Hi Wayne
    >
    > The SCP has to return it if asked, since it is Type 1.
    >
    > But it should only return it if asked (present in request
    > with zero length), and not otherwise.
    >
    > This is a basic rule for all query SCPs in DICOM - do not
    > return anything more than asked (unless it is specifically
    > described in the response description in the standard as
    > being additionally allowed or required).
    >
    > Davidhttp://groups.google.com.tr/group/comp.protocols.dicom/browse_thread/...




  3. Re: you get what you ask

    Hallo Atila,

    IMHO, from the Standard, you are right - if you do not send a tag for an
    attribute in the Query, the WL SCP should not set this attribute. And
    this is what happened with all installations I have seen (quite a few;-) ).

    One exception: The Specific Character Set is sometimes set in the
    response without having asked for it.

    Reference implementation, I refer to e.g. DCMTK, behave differently: If
    you do not include the Specific Character set, the answer will be "what
    is possible" encoded in ISO IR6 - I think, this is the proper behavior,
    regarding to the standard.


    Hope this helps,


    Peter

    Atila Gunes wrote:
    > i'm sorry for trouble here for test SCU and also online server. i
    > realised that Test SCU asks. just my colleague 's program couldnt
    > capture that tags.. But he still want to believe in that "you get what
    > you ask" rule.. he still thinks that, even he doesnt ask about patient
    > id, he must get the answer..
    >


  4. Re: you get what you ask

    Peter B Schmidt wrote:
    >
    > IMHO, from the Standard, you are right - if you do not send a tag for an
    > attribute in the Query, the WL SCP should not set this attribute. And
    > this is what happened with all installations I have seen (quite a few;-) ).
    >
    > One exception: The Specific Character Set is sometimes set in the
    > response without having asked for it.
    >
    > Reference implementation, I refer to e.g. DCMTK, behave differently: If
    > you do not include the Specific Character set, the answer will be "what
    > is possible" encoded in ISO IR6 - I think, this is the proper behavior,
    > regarding to the standard.


    Not quite. DCMTK does not attempt to re-code character sets, and the worklist SCP will, depending on
    the configuration, return Specific Character Set in C-FIND-RSP messages even if not contained in the
    related C-FIND-RQ. Specific Character Set (0008,0005) is simply a special case in DICOM - the
    attribute describes the character set encoding for a dataset and as such can be sent with any
    dataset. It is not a query key, and not a return key either.

    Best regards,
    Marco Eichelberg
    OFFIS

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