SCSI Cable Problem - DEC

This is a discussion on SCSI Cable Problem - DEC ; I bought a generic 50-pin SCSI cable on eBay, with male centronics connectors at each end, in order to connect an external CD-ROM drive to my VAXstation 4000 VLC. The cable does not appear to work correctly, because if I ...

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Thread: SCSI Cable Problem

  1. SCSI Cable Problem

    I bought a generic 50-pin SCSI cable on eBay, with male centronics
    connectors at each end, in order to connect an external CD-ROM drive to my
    VAXstation 4000 VLC. The cable does not appear to work correctly, because if
    I connect the same external unit to my VAXstation 3100 M38 it works fine.
    The latter machine has a different type of cable with a 68-pin connector at
    the VAXstation end.When I use the non-working cable the console SHOW DEVICE
    command does not list any attached SCSI devices, including other ones I know
    to work otherwise, and it seems to list all the possible SCSI Ids.

    I am assuming that this indicates a problem with the cable I bought. Are
    there any particular characteristics I should be looking for other than
    50-pin centronics? Or do I just have a faulty cable?

    Here is the output of a SHOW DEVICE command with the external device
    connected on SCSI ID 4 and the internal disk on SCSI ID 2:

    VMS/VMB ADDR DEVTYPE NUMBYTES RM/FX WP DEVNAM
    REV
    ------- ---- ------- -------- ----- -- ------
    ---
    ESA0 08-00-2B-2C-90-84
    A/2/0
    A/2/1
    A/2/2
    A/2/3
    A/2/4
    A/2/5
    A/2/6
    A/2/7
    A/4/0
    A/4/1
    A/4/2
    A/4/3
    A/4/4
    A/4/5
    A/4/6
    A/4/7
    ..HostID.. A/6 INITR

    SHOW CONFIG output is:


    KA48-A V1.2-32B-V4.0
    08-00-2B-2C-90-84
    24MB

    DEVNBR DEVNAM INFO
    ------ -------- --------------------------
    1 NVR OK
    2 LCG OK
    LR - 8 PLN FB - V1.1
    3 DZ OK
    4 CACHE OK
    5 MEM OK
    24MB = S0/1=8MB, S2/3=8MB, S4/5=8MB
    6 FPU OK
    7 IT OK
    8 SYS OK
    9 NI ?? 001 0172
    10 SCSI ?? 120 0034
    11 AUD OK


    Regards

    Rob



  2. Re: SCSI Cable Problem

    On 8 Aug, 00:39, "Robert Jarratt" wrote:
    > I bought a generic 50-pin SCSI cable on eBay, with male centronics
    > connectors at each end, in order to connect an external CD-ROM drive to my
    > VAXstation 4000 VLC. The cable does not appear to work correctly, because if
    > I connect the same external unit to my VAXstation 3100 M38 it works fine.
    > The latter machine has a different type of cable with a 68-pin connector at
    > the VAXstation end.When I use the non-working cable the console SHOW DEVICE
    > command does not list any attached SCSI devices, including other ones I know
    > to work otherwise, and it seems to list all the possible SCSI Ids.
    >
    > I am assuming that this indicates a problem with the cable I bought. Are
    > there any particular characteristics I should be looking for other than
    > 50-pin centronics? Or do I just have a faulty cable?
    >
    > Here is the output of a SHOW DEVICE command with the external device
    > connected on SCSI ID 4 and the internal disk on SCSI ID 2:
    >
    > VMS/VMB ADDR DEVTYPE NUMBYTES RM/FX WP DEVNAM
    > REV
    > ------- ---- ------- -------- ----- -- ------
    > ---
    > ESA0 08-00-2B-2C-90-84
    > A/2/0
    > A/2/1
    > A/2/2
    > A/2/3
    > A/2/4
    > A/2/5
    > A/2/6
    > A/2/7
    > A/4/0
    > A/4/1
    > A/4/2
    > A/4/3
    > A/4/4
    > A/4/5
    > A/4/6
    > A/4/7
    > ..HostID.. A/6 INITR
    >
    > SHOW CONFIG output is:
    >
    > KA48-A V1.2-32B-V4.0
    > 08-00-2B-2C-90-84
    > 24MB
    >
    > DEVNBR DEVNAM INFO
    > ------ -------- --------------------------
    > 1 NVR OK
    > 2 LCG OK
    > LR - 8 PLN FB - V1.1
    > 3 DZ OK
    > 4 CACHE OK
    > 5 MEM OK
    > 24MB = S0/1=8MB, S2/3=8MB, S4/5=8MB
    > 6 FPU OK
    > 7 IT OK
    > 8 SYS OK
    > 9 NI ?? 001 0172
    > 10 SCSI ?? 120 0034
    > 11 AUD OK
    >
    > Regards
    >
    > Rob


    Nice to see my SIMMs installed working

    You should have something like:

    SHOW DEVICE

    VMS/VMB ADDR DEVTYPE NUMBYTES RM/FX WP
    DEVNAM REV
    ------- ---- ------- -------- ----- --
    ------ ---
    ESA0 08-00-2B-2B-4A-EF
    DKA300 A/3/0 DISK 121.64MB FX
    RZ23L 2528
    DKA400 A/4/0 RODISK ...... RM WP
    RRD40 280E
    ..HostID.. A/6 INITR




    >>> SHOW CONFIG


    KA48-A V1.2-32B-V4.0
    08-00-2B-2B-4A-EF
    24MB


    DEVNBR DEVNAM INFO

    ------ -------- --------------------------

    1 NVR OK

    2 LCG OK

    HR - 8 PLN FB - V1.1
    3 DZ OK

    4 CACHE OK

    5 MEM OK

    24MB = S0/1=8MB, S2/3=8MB, S4/5=8MB
    6 FPU OK

    7 IT OK

    8 SYS OK

    9 NI OK

    10 SCSI OK

    3-RZ23L 6-INITR
    11 AUD OK


    >>>


    I note that LUN 4 isn't shown in the second list and assume that's
    normal, but I haven't booted my VLC to see if it's working.

    The long list of A/x/y without DKA200/DKA300 is what I recollect when
    the internal disk is not set correctly (dip shunts). Are you using the
    original one, or your new non-DEC one? What do you get with the
    original and no external disk? Do you have a SCSI terminator (though
    it doesn't seem crucial)? I also got an spurious A/4/1 when my cable
    wasn't in correctly, so it _could_ be a cable problem. Have you
    checked all the connections on your generic cable? Without testing
    every pin on mine, it looks as if it should be 50-50 ... 1-1.

    BTW your ?? against NI is because the AIU connector isn't terminated.
    If you won't be networking the VLC, you need a terminator. I have
    loadsa these if you want one.

    Chris


  3. Re: SCSI Cable Problem

    Just noticed you have ?? against SCSI in SHOW CONFIG. Please post the
    results of TEST SCSI which may give more info. Do it with/without the
    new hardware.

    Chris


  4. Re: SCSI Cable Problem


    wrote in message
    news:1186571576.268200.218300@o61g2000hsh.googlegr oups.com...
    > On 8 Aug, 00:39, "Robert Jarratt" wrote:
    >> I bought a generic 50-pin SCSI cable on eBay, with male centronics
    >> connectors at each end, in order to connect an external CD-ROM drive to
    >> my
    >> VAXstation 4000 VLC. The cable does not appear to work correctly, because
    >> if
    >> I connect the same external unit to my VAXstation 3100 M38 it works fine.
    >> The latter machine has a different type of cable with a 68-pin connector
    >> at
    >> the VAXstation end.When I use the non-working cable the console SHOW
    >> DEVICE
    >> command does not list any attached SCSI devices, including other ones I
    >> know
    >> to work otherwise, and it seems to list all the possible SCSI Ids.
    >>
    >> I am assuming that this indicates a problem with the cable I bought. Are
    >> there any particular characteristics I should be looking for other than
    >> 50-pin centronics? Or do I just have a faulty cable?
    >>
    >> Here is the output of a SHOW DEVICE command with the external device
    >> connected on SCSI ID 4 and the internal disk on SCSI ID 2:
    >>
    >> VMS/VMB ADDR DEVTYPE NUMBYTES RM/FX WP DEVNAM
    >> REV
    >> ------- ---- ------- -------- ----- -- ------
    >> ---
    >> ESA0 08-00-2B-2C-90-84
    >> A/2/0
    >> A/2/1
    >> A/2/2
    >> A/2/3
    >> A/2/4
    >> A/2/5
    >> A/2/6
    >> A/2/7
    >> A/4/0
    >> A/4/1
    >> A/4/2
    >> A/4/3
    >> A/4/4
    >> A/4/5
    >> A/4/6
    >> A/4/7
    >> ..HostID.. A/6 INITR
    >>
    >> SHOW CONFIG output is:
    >>
    >> KA48-A V1.2-32B-V4.0
    >> 08-00-2B-2C-90-84
    >> 24MB
    >>
    >> DEVNBR DEVNAM INFO
    >> ------ -------- --------------------------
    >> 1 NVR OK
    >> 2 LCG OK
    >> LR - 8 PLN FB - V1.1
    >> 3 DZ OK
    >> 4 CACHE OK
    >> 5 MEM OK
    >> 24MB = S0/1=8MB, S2/3=8MB, S4/5=8MB
    >> 6 FPU OK
    >> 7 IT OK
    >> 8 SYS OK
    >> 9 NI ?? 001 0172
    >> 10 SCSI ?? 120 0034
    >> 11 AUD OK
    >>
    >> Regards
    >>
    >> Rob

    >
    > Nice to see my SIMMs installed working
    >
    > You should have something like:
    >
    > SHOW DEVICE
    >
    > VMS/VMB ADDR DEVTYPE NUMBYTES RM/FX WP
    > DEVNAM REV
    > ------- ---- ------- -------- ----- --
    > ------ ---
    > ESA0 08-00-2B-2B-4A-EF
    > DKA300 A/3/0 DISK 121.64MB FX
    > RZ23L 2528
    > DKA400 A/4/0 RODISK ...... RM WP
    > RRD40 280E
    > ..HostID.. A/6 INITR
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >>>> SHOW CONFIG

    >
    > KA48-A V1.2-32B-V4.0
    > 08-00-2B-2B-4A-EF
    > 24MB
    >
    >
    > DEVNBR DEVNAM INFO
    >
    > ------ -------- --------------------------
    >
    > 1 NVR OK
    >
    > 2 LCG OK
    >
    > HR - 8 PLN FB - V1.1
    > 3 DZ OK
    >
    > 4 CACHE OK
    >
    > 5 MEM OK
    >
    > 24MB = S0/1=8MB, S2/3=8MB, S4/5=8MB
    > 6 FPU OK
    >
    > 7 IT OK
    >
    > 8 SYS OK
    >
    > 9 NI OK
    >
    > 10 SCSI OK
    >
    > 3-RZ23L 6-INITR
    > 11 AUD OK
    >
    >
    >>>>

    >
    > I note that LUN 4 isn't shown in the second list and assume that's
    > normal, but I haven't booted my VLC to see if it's working.
    >
    > The long list of A/x/y without DKA200/DKA300 is what I recollect when
    > the internal disk is not set correctly (dip shunts). Are you using the
    > original one, or your new non-DEC one? What do you get with the
    > original and no external disk? Do you have a SCSI terminator (though
    > it doesn't seem crucial)? I also got an spurious A/4/1 when my cable
    > wasn't in correctly, so it _could_ be a cable problem. Have you
    > checked all the connections on your generic cable? Without testing
    > every pin on mine, it looks as if it should be 50-50 ... 1-1.
    >
    > BTW your ?? against NI is because the AIU connector isn't terminated.
    > If you won't be networking the VLC, you need a terminator. I have
    > loadsa these if you want one.
    >
    > Chris
    >


    Yes, that is indeed your memory installed and working, thanks!

    I should have said that without the external unit the machine works fine. I
    am able to run VMS from the non-DEC hard disk I installed recently.
    Furthermore, if I connect the CD-ROM that is in the external box directly to
    the SCSI cable inside the VLC then that works fine too. So, individually,
    all the devices I want to use with the VLC work when connected internally.
    It is when I connect the CD-ROM externally using the particular SCSI cable
    under suspicion that things do not work (just as a reminder, the same
    external CD-ROM connects fine to a 3100 when I use the cable that connects
    the 3100 to its expansion storage, but that cable has a 68-pin connector at
    one end so I can't try it with the VLC). I have tried the cable with and
    without a terminator on the other port of the external box.

    Of course, I can't connect both devices internally because there are not
    enough connectors and not enough space either; I could rig something up but
    I have read that the PSU would probably not be up to the job in any case.

    I was not aware of the TEST SCSI command, I have been unable to locate an
    electronic copy of the VLC's manual (any suggestions?). Here is the output
    of the command:

    >>> test scsi


    ?? 120 10 SCSI 0034


    84 FAIL

    I have tested the cable with my multi-meter and all the pins seem ok. I am
    suspicious of the connectors themselves though as much of the body is
    plastic and the fit does not feel secure when connecting them to the ports
    on the external box and the VLC.

    I am aware of the network issue, I have a transceiver that I will be using
    to connect the VLC to my LAN, I'll do this when I have fixed the current
    problem and have sited the VLC in its new permanent home. What is the effect
    of not terminating the AUI port if you are not (yet) networking?

    Thanks

    Rob



  5. Re: SCSI Cable Problem

    On 8 Aug, 22:23, "Robert Jarratt" wrote:
    >
    > I was not aware of the TEST SCSI command, I have been unable to locate an
    > electronic copy of the VLC's manual (any suggestions?). Here is the output
    > of the command:
    >
    > >>> test scsi

    >
    > ?? 120 10 SCSI 0034
    >
    > 84 FAIL


    The VLC User's manual doesn't mention TEST SCSI. I don't have a
    Maintenance Manual for the VLC and hoped the results of the test would
    be similar to the 3100, but they aren't. All I can gather is that:

    120 is the Field replaceable Unit (FRU) number of the failing
    component, but it doesn't say what that is.
    10 = SCSI
    0034 is the error code, but there isn't a list of those either.

    The manual just says "write these numbers down and give them to
    Digital Field Service when you call" . Can anyone help?

    You can also do SHOW ERROR to get a little more non-information
    (numbers in hex this time).

    > I have tested the cable with my multi-meter and all the pins seem ok. I am
    > suspicious of the connectors themselves though as much of the body is
    > plastic and the fit does not feel secure when connecting them to the ports
    > on the external box and the VLC.


    I also found my cable to be difficult to fit reliably.With some
    fiddling, I managed to get my external disk on LUN 4 to appear in SHOW
    CONFIG. It's an expensive-looking HP cable, but also very plasticcy! I
    will see if I have an original DEC one.

    > I am aware of the network issue, I have a transceiver that I will be using
    > to connect the VLC to my LAN, I'll do this when I have fixed the current
    > problem and have sited the VLC in its new permanent home. What is the effect
    > of not terminating the AUI port if you are not (yet) networking?


    IIRC, the unterminated AUI just stops the VLC autobooting into VMS, as
    the startup test fails. BTW, the next gotcha is that an AUI
    transceiver may not fit into the 15-pin D-type socket with the SCSI
    connector in the way. DEC sold an extension cable to get around this,
    but modern transceivers may be small enough.

    Chris


  6. Re: SCSI Cable Problem

    If the CD-ROM drive works properly when connected internally, but not when
    connected externally, that is a pretty sure sign of a SCSI termination problem.

    The SCSI HBA (or SCSI host adapter or whatever you want to call it) can either
    provide SCSI termination or not. It has to provide SCSI termination when it is
    at one end of a SCSI bus. It must not provide SCSI termination when it is in
    the middle of a SCSI bus, as with your setup where it sits between internal
    devices and an external device. SO check and double check the termination
    setting on the HBA, and make sure it does not terminate the SCSI bus.

    .... Ben Myers

    On Wed, 08 Aug 2007 20:23:36 GMT, "Robert Jarratt" wrote:

    >
    > wrote in message
    >news:1186571576.268200.218300@o61g2000hsh.googlegr oups.com...
    >> On 8 Aug, 00:39, "Robert Jarratt" wrote:
    >>> I bought a generic 50-pin SCSI cable on eBay, with male centronics
    >>> connectors at each end, in order to connect an external CD-ROM drive to
    >>> my
    >>> VAXstation 4000 VLC. The cable does not appear to work correctly, because
    >>> if
    >>> I connect the same external unit to my VAXstation 3100 M38 it works fine.
    >>> The latter machine has a different type of cable with a 68-pin connector
    >>> at
    >>> the VAXstation end.When I use the non-working cable the console SHOW
    >>> DEVICE
    >>> command does not list any attached SCSI devices, including other ones I
    >>> know
    >>> to work otherwise, and it seems to list all the possible SCSI Ids.
    >>>
    >>> I am assuming that this indicates a problem with the cable I bought. Are
    >>> there any particular characteristics I should be looking for other than
    >>> 50-pin centronics? Or do I just have a faulty cable?
    >>>
    >>> Here is the output of a SHOW DEVICE command with the external device
    >>> connected on SCSI ID 4 and the internal disk on SCSI ID 2:
    >>>
    >>> VMS/VMB ADDR DEVTYPE NUMBYTES RM/FX WP DEVNAM
    >>> REV
    >>> ------- ---- ------- -------- ----- -- ------
    >>> ---
    >>> ESA0 08-00-2B-2C-90-84
    >>> A/2/0
    >>> A/2/1
    >>> A/2/2
    >>> A/2/3
    >>> A/2/4
    >>> A/2/5
    >>> A/2/6
    >>> A/2/7
    >>> A/4/0
    >>> A/4/1
    >>> A/4/2
    >>> A/4/3
    >>> A/4/4
    >>> A/4/5
    >>> A/4/6
    >>> A/4/7
    >>> ..HostID.. A/6 INITR
    >>>
    >>> SHOW CONFIG output is:
    >>>
    >>> KA48-A V1.2-32B-V4.0
    >>> 08-00-2B-2C-90-84
    >>> 24MB
    >>>
    >>> DEVNBR DEVNAM INFO
    >>> ------ -------- --------------------------
    >>> 1 NVR OK
    >>> 2 LCG OK
    >>> LR - 8 PLN FB - V1.1
    >>> 3 DZ OK
    >>> 4 CACHE OK
    >>> 5 MEM OK
    >>> 24MB = S0/1=8MB, S2/3=8MB, S4/5=8MB
    >>> 6 FPU OK
    >>> 7 IT OK
    >>> 8 SYS OK
    >>> 9 NI ?? 001 0172
    >>> 10 SCSI ?? 120 0034
    >>> 11 AUD OK
    >>>
    >>> Regards
    >>>
    >>> Rob

    >>
    >> Nice to see my SIMMs installed working
    >>
    >> You should have something like:
    >>
    >> SHOW DEVICE
    >>
    >> VMS/VMB ADDR DEVTYPE NUMBYTES RM/FX WP
    >> DEVNAM REV
    >> ------- ---- ------- -------- ----- --
    >> ------ ---
    >> ESA0 08-00-2B-2B-4A-EF
    >> DKA300 A/3/0 DISK 121.64MB FX
    >> RZ23L 2528
    >> DKA400 A/4/0 RODISK ...... RM WP
    >> RRD40 280E
    >> ..HostID.. A/6 INITR
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>>>> SHOW CONFIG

    >>
    >> KA48-A V1.2-32B-V4.0
    >> 08-00-2B-2B-4A-EF
    >> 24MB
    >>
    >>
    >> DEVNBR DEVNAM INFO
    >>
    >> ------ -------- --------------------------
    >>
    >> 1 NVR OK
    >>
    >> 2 LCG OK
    >>
    >> HR - 8 PLN FB - V1.1
    >> 3 DZ OK
    >>
    >> 4 CACHE OK
    >>
    >> 5 MEM OK
    >>
    >> 24MB = S0/1=8MB, S2/3=8MB, S4/5=8MB
    >> 6 FPU OK
    >>
    >> 7 IT OK
    >>
    >> 8 SYS OK
    >>
    >> 9 NI OK
    >>
    >> 10 SCSI OK
    >>
    >> 3-RZ23L 6-INITR
    >> 11 AUD OK
    >>
    >>
    >>>>>

    >>
    >> I note that LUN 4 isn't shown in the second list and assume that's
    >> normal, but I haven't booted my VLC to see if it's working.
    >>
    >> The long list of A/x/y without DKA200/DKA300 is what I recollect when
    >> the internal disk is not set correctly (dip shunts). Are you using the
    >> original one, or your new non-DEC one? What do you get with the
    >> original and no external disk? Do you have a SCSI terminator (though
    >> it doesn't seem crucial)? I also got an spurious A/4/1 when my cable
    >> wasn't in correctly, so it _could_ be a cable problem. Have you
    >> checked all the connections on your generic cable? Without testing
    >> every pin on mine, it looks as if it should be 50-50 ... 1-1.
    >>
    >> BTW your ?? against NI is because the AIU connector isn't terminated.
    >> If you won't be networking the VLC, you need a terminator. I have
    >> loadsa these if you want one.
    >>
    >> Chris
    >>

    >
    >Yes, that is indeed your memory installed and working, thanks!
    >
    >I should have said that without the external unit the machine works fine. I
    >am able to run VMS from the non-DEC hard disk I installed recently.
    >Furthermore, if I connect the CD-ROM that is in the external box directly to
    >the SCSI cable inside the VLC then that works fine too. So, individually,
    >all the devices I want to use with the VLC work when connected internally.
    >It is when I connect the CD-ROM externally using the particular SCSI cable
    >under suspicion that things do not work (just as a reminder, the same
    >external CD-ROM connects fine to a 3100 when I use the cable that connects
    >the 3100 to its expansion storage, but that cable has a 68-pin connector at
    >one end so I can't try it with the VLC). I have tried the cable with and
    >without a terminator on the other port of the external box.
    >
    >Of course, I can't connect both devices internally because there are not
    >enough connectors and not enough space either; I could rig something up but
    >I have read that the PSU would probably not be up to the job in any case.
    >
    >I was not aware of the TEST SCSI command, I have been unable to locate an
    >electronic copy of the VLC's manual (any suggestions?). Here is the output
    >of the command:
    >
    >>>> test scsi

    >
    >?? 120 10 SCSI 0034
    >
    >
    > 84 FAIL
    >
    >I have tested the cable with my multi-meter and all the pins seem ok. I am
    >suspicious of the connectors themselves though as much of the body is
    >plastic and the fit does not feel secure when connecting them to the ports
    >on the external box and the VLC.
    >
    >I am aware of the network issue, I have a transceiver that I will be using
    >to connect the VLC to my LAN, I'll do this when I have fixed the current
    >problem and have sited the VLC in its new permanent home. What is the effect
    >of not terminating the AUI port if you are not (yet) networking?
    >
    >Thanks
    >
    >Rob
    >


  7. Re: SCSI Cable Problem

    Ben,

    Thanks for the suggestion. I am not sure how to check whether the HBA is
    providing termination or not. The VLC has a single centronics connector for
    SCSI and no user switch I can see to change anything to do with the
    termination (or anything else for that matter). It would seem unlikely to be
    inside the box as I am sure DEC would not require you to open the box to be
    able to attach an external device. I also know that I do not need to do
    anything like this on my 3100, I can have external devices connected or not
    connected and it always works.

    Any suggestions on how to check the termination at the HBA end welcome.

    Regards

    Rob

    "Ben Myers" wrote in message
    news:t85lb3d7mhas4a6l7bjk3k05j6v8ob9qmr@4ax.com...
    > If the CD-ROM drive works properly when connected internally, but not when
    > connected externally, that is a pretty sure sign of a SCSI termination
    > problem.
    >
    > The SCSI HBA (or SCSI host adapter or whatever you want to call it) can
    > either
    > provide SCSI termination or not. It has to provide SCSI termination when
    > it is
    > at one end of a SCSI bus. It must not provide SCSI termination when it
    > is in
    > the middle of a SCSI bus, as with your setup where it sits between
    > internal
    > devices and an external device. SO check and double check the
    > termination
    > setting on the HBA, and make sure it does not terminate the SCSI bus.
    >
    > ... Ben Myers
    >
    > On Wed, 08 Aug 2007 20:23:36 GMT, "Robert Jarratt" wrote:
    >
    >>
    >> wrote in message
    >>news:1186571576.268200.218300@o61g2000hsh.googlegr oups.com...
    >>> On 8 Aug, 00:39, "Robert Jarratt" wrote:
    >>>> I bought a generic 50-pin SCSI cable on eBay, with male centronics
    >>>> connectors at each end, in order to connect an external CD-ROM drive to
    >>>> my
    >>>> VAXstation 4000 VLC. The cable does not appear to work correctly,
    >>>> because
    >>>> if
    >>>> I connect the same external unit to my VAXstation 3100 M38 it works
    >>>> fine.
    >>>> The latter machine has a different type of cable with a 68-pin
    >>>> connector
    >>>> at
    >>>> the VAXstation end.When I use the non-working cable the console SHOW
    >>>> DEVICE
    >>>> command does not list any attached SCSI devices, including other ones I
    >>>> know
    >>>> to work otherwise, and it seems to list all the possible SCSI Ids.
    >>>>
    >>>> I am assuming that this indicates a problem with the cable I bought.
    >>>> Are
    >>>> there any particular characteristics I should be looking for other than
    >>>> 50-pin centronics? Or do I just have a faulty cable?
    >>>>
    >>>> Here is the output of a SHOW DEVICE command with the external device
    >>>> connected on SCSI ID 4 and the internal disk on SCSI ID 2:
    >>>>
    >>>> VMS/VMB ADDR DEVTYPE NUMBYTES RM/FX WP DEVNAM
    >>>> REV
    >>>> ------- ---- ------- -------- ----- -- ------
    >>>> ---
    >>>> ESA0 08-00-2B-2C-90-84
    >>>> A/2/0
    >>>> A/2/1
    >>>> A/2/2
    >>>> A/2/3
    >>>> A/2/4
    >>>> A/2/5
    >>>> A/2/6
    >>>> A/2/7
    >>>> A/4/0
    >>>> A/4/1
    >>>> A/4/2
    >>>> A/4/3
    >>>> A/4/4
    >>>> A/4/5
    >>>> A/4/6
    >>>> A/4/7
    >>>> ..HostID.. A/6 INITR
    >>>>
    >>>> SHOW CONFIG output is:
    >>>>
    >>>> KA48-A V1.2-32B-V4.0
    >>>> 08-00-2B-2C-90-84
    >>>> 24MB
    >>>>
    >>>> DEVNBR DEVNAM INFO
    >>>> ------ -------- --------------------------
    >>>> 1 NVR OK
    >>>> 2 LCG OK
    >>>> LR - 8 PLN FB - V1.1
    >>>> 3 DZ OK
    >>>> 4 CACHE OK
    >>>> 5 MEM OK
    >>>> 24MB = S0/1=8MB, S2/3=8MB, S4/5=8MB
    >>>> 6 FPU OK
    >>>> 7 IT OK
    >>>> 8 SYS OK
    >>>> 9 NI ?? 001 0172
    >>>> 10 SCSI ?? 120 0034
    >>>> 11 AUD OK
    >>>>
    >>>> Regards
    >>>>
    >>>> Rob
    >>>
    >>> Nice to see my SIMMs installed working
    >>>
    >>> You should have something like:
    >>>
    >>> SHOW DEVICE
    >>>
    >>> VMS/VMB ADDR DEVTYPE NUMBYTES RM/FX WP
    >>> DEVNAM REV
    >>> ------- ---- ------- -------- ----- --
    >>> ------ ---
    >>> ESA0 08-00-2B-2B-4A-EF
    >>> DKA300 A/3/0 DISK 121.64MB FX
    >>> RZ23L 2528
    >>> DKA400 A/4/0 RODISK ...... RM WP
    >>> RRD40 280E
    >>> ..HostID.. A/6 INITR
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>>> SHOW CONFIG
    >>>
    >>> KA48-A V1.2-32B-V4.0
    >>> 08-00-2B-2B-4A-EF
    >>> 24MB
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> DEVNBR DEVNAM INFO
    >>>
    >>> ------ -------- --------------------------
    >>>
    >>> 1 NVR OK
    >>>
    >>> 2 LCG OK
    >>>
    >>> HR - 8 PLN FB - V1.1
    >>> 3 DZ OK
    >>>
    >>> 4 CACHE OK
    >>>
    >>> 5 MEM OK
    >>>
    >>> 24MB = S0/1=8MB, S2/3=8MB, S4/5=8MB
    >>> 6 FPU OK
    >>>
    >>> 7 IT OK
    >>>
    >>> 8 SYS OK
    >>>
    >>> 9 NI OK
    >>>
    >>> 10 SCSI OK
    >>>
    >>> 3-RZ23L 6-INITR
    >>> 11 AUD OK
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>
    >>> I note that LUN 4 isn't shown in the second list and assume that's
    >>> normal, but I haven't booted my VLC to see if it's working.
    >>>
    >>> The long list of A/x/y without DKA200/DKA300 is what I recollect when
    >>> the internal disk is not set correctly (dip shunts). Are you using the
    >>> original one, or your new non-DEC one? What do you get with the
    >>> original and no external disk? Do you have a SCSI terminator (though
    >>> it doesn't seem crucial)? I also got an spurious A/4/1 when my cable
    >>> wasn't in correctly, so it _could_ be a cable problem. Have you
    >>> checked all the connections on your generic cable? Without testing
    >>> every pin on mine, it looks as if it should be 50-50 ... 1-1.
    >>>
    >>> BTW your ?? against NI is because the AIU connector isn't terminated.
    >>> If you won't be networking the VLC, you need a terminator. I have
    >>> loadsa these if you want one.
    >>>
    >>> Chris
    >>>

    >>
    >>Yes, that is indeed your memory installed and working, thanks!
    >>
    >>I should have said that without the external unit the machine works fine.
    >>I
    >>am able to run VMS from the non-DEC hard disk I installed recently.
    >>Furthermore, if I connect the CD-ROM that is in the external box directly
    >>to
    >>the SCSI cable inside the VLC then that works fine too. So, individually,
    >>all the devices I want to use with the VLC work when connected internally.
    >>It is when I connect the CD-ROM externally using the particular SCSI cable
    >>under suspicion that things do not work (just as a reminder, the same
    >>external CD-ROM connects fine to a 3100 when I use the cable that connects
    >>the 3100 to its expansion storage, but that cable has a 68-pin connector
    >>at
    >>one end so I can't try it with the VLC). I have tried the cable with and
    >>without a terminator on the other port of the external box.
    >>
    >>Of course, I can't connect both devices internally because there are not
    >>enough connectors and not enough space either; I could rig something up
    >>but
    >>I have read that the PSU would probably not be up to the job in any case.
    >>
    >>I was not aware of the TEST SCSI command, I have been unable to locate an
    >>electronic copy of the VLC's manual (any suggestions?). Here is the output
    >>of the command:
    >>
    >>>>> test scsi

    >>
    >>?? 120 10 SCSI 0034
    >>
    >>
    >> 84 FAIL
    >>
    >>I have tested the cable with my multi-meter and all the pins seem ok. I am
    >>suspicious of the connectors themselves though as much of the body is
    >>plastic and the fit does not feel secure when connecting them to the ports
    >>on the external box and the VLC.
    >>
    >>I am aware of the network issue, I have a transceiver that I will be using
    >>to connect the VLC to my LAN, I'll do this when I have fixed the current
    >>problem and have sited the VLC in its new permanent home. What is the
    >>effect
    >>of not terminating the AUI port if you are not (yet) networking?
    >>
    >>Thanks
    >>
    >>Rob
    >>




  8. Re: SCSI Cable Problem

    On 9 Aug, 10:34, "Robert Jarratt" wrote:
    > Ben,
    >
    > Thanks for the suggestion. I am not sure how to check whether the HBA is
    > providing termination or not. The VLC has a single centronics connector for
    > SCSI and no user switch I can see to change anything to do with the
    > termination (or anything else for that matter). It would seem unlikely to be
    > inside the box as I am sure DEC would not require you to open the box to be
    > able to attach an external device. I also know that I do not need to do
    > anything like this on my 3100, I can have external devices connected or not
    > connected and it always works.
    >
    > Any suggestions on how to check the termination at the HBA end welcome.
    >
    > Regards
    >
    > Rob


    Ben has a good point. I had tried adding/removing the terminator plug
    on my external drive, which made no difference, but looking at the
    manual for your Conner CFP1080S, I note that it has on-board SCSI
    terminators which can be disabled by removing jumper E1 (see p42/43 --
    PDF file numbering). You can download the manual from http://www.seagate.co.uk/

    Chris


  9. Re: SCSI Cable Problem

    On 9 Aug, 11:41, chrisj.do...@proemail.co.uk wrote:
    > On 9 Aug, 10:34, "Robert Jarratt" wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    > > Ben,

    >
    > > Thanks for the suggestion. I am not sure how to check whether the HBA is
    > > providing termination or not. The VLC has a single centronics connector for
    > > SCSI and no user switch I can see to change anything to do with the
    > > termination (or anything else for that matter). It would seem unlikely to be
    > > inside the box as I am sure DEC would not require you to open the box to be
    > > able to attach an external device. I also know that I do not need to do
    > > anything like this on my 3100, I can have external devices connected or not
    > > connected and it always works.

    >
    > > Any suggestions on how to check the termination at the HBA end welcome.

    >
    > > Regards

    >
    > > Rob

    >
    > Ben has a good point. I had tried adding/removing the terminator plug
    > on my external drive, which made no difference, but looking at the
    > manual for your Conner CFP1080S, I note that it has on-board SCSI
    > terminators which can be disabled by removing jumper E1 (see p42/43 --
    > PDF file numbering). You can download the manual fromhttp://www.seagate.co.uk/
    >
    > Chris


    Sorry, http://www.seagate.com/


  10. Re: SCSI Cable Problem


    wrote in message
    news:1186652483.405601.70780@k79g2000hse.googlegro ups.com...
    > On 9 Aug, 10:34, "Robert Jarratt" wrote:
    >> Ben,
    >>
    >> Thanks for the suggestion. I am not sure how to check whether the HBA is
    >> providing termination or not. The VLC has a single centronics connector
    >> for
    >> SCSI and no user switch I can see to change anything to do with the
    >> termination (or anything else for that matter). It would seem unlikely to
    >> be
    >> inside the box as I am sure DEC would not require you to open the box to
    >> be
    >> able to attach an external device. I also know that I do not need to do
    >> anything like this on my 3100, I can have external devices connected or
    >> not
    >> connected and it always works.
    >>
    >> Any suggestions on how to check the termination at the HBA end welcome.
    >>
    >> Regards
    >>
    >> Rob

    >
    > Ben has a good point. I had tried adding/removing the terminator plug
    > on my external drive, which made no difference, but looking at the
    > manual for your Conner CFP1080S, I note that it has on-board SCSI
    > terminators which can be disabled by removing jumper E1 (see p42/43 --
    > PDF file numbering). You can download the manual from
    > http://www.seagate.co.uk/
    >
    > Chris
    >


    Thanks, I will try this when I get a bit of time this evening and will let
    you know.

    Rob



  11. Re: SCSI Cable Problem

    OK I tried removing the jumper from the internal disk and here are the
    results:

    No external device and no external terminator. I can see the internal disk
    and boot off it.
    No external device, with external terminator. Ditto.
    With external device and cable and no terminator on the external device.
    Error, can't see any devices at all.
    With external device and cable, with external terminator. Same error.

    I am not convinced that this is a termination problem as I have also tried
    all the above tests when the jumper on the external disk *was* installed and
    got exactly the same results.

    Regards

    Rob

    wrote in message
    news:1186652561.020453.276220@g4g2000hsf.googlegro ups.com...
    > On 9 Aug, 11:41, chrisj.do...@proemail.co.uk wrote:
    >> On 9 Aug, 10:34, "Robert Jarratt" wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> > Ben,

    >>
    >> > Thanks for the suggestion. I am not sure how to check whether the HBA
    >> > is
    >> > providing termination or not. The VLC has a single centronics connector
    >> > for
    >> > SCSI and no user switch I can see to change anything to do with the
    >> > termination (or anything else for that matter). It would seem unlikely
    >> > to be
    >> > inside the box as I am sure DEC would not require you to open the box
    >> > to be
    >> > able to attach an external device. I also know that I do not need to do
    >> > anything like this on my 3100, I can have external devices connected or
    >> > not
    >> > connected and it always works.

    >>
    >> > Any suggestions on how to check the termination at the HBA end welcome.

    >>
    >> > Regards

    >>
    >> > Rob

    >>
    >> Ben has a good point. I had tried adding/removing the terminator plug
    >> on my external drive, which made no difference, but looking at the
    >> manual for your Conner CFP1080S, I note that it has on-board SCSI
    >> terminators which can be disabled by removing jumper E1 (see p42/43 --
    >> PDF file numbering). You can download the manual
    >> fromhttp://www.seagate.co.uk/
    >>
    >> Chris

    >
    > Sorry, http://www.seagate.com/
    >




  12. Re: SCSI Cable Problem


    What happens with just the cable plugged in, no device or terminator?

    And, with the cable, device, and terminator, but with the device
    turned off?

    How long is the external cable?

    >OK I tried removing the jumper from the internal disk and here are the
    >results:
    >
    >No external device and no external terminator. I can see the internal disk
    >and boot off it.
    >No external device, with external terminator. Ditto.
    >With external device and cable and no terminator on the external device.
    >Error, can't see any devices at all.
    >With external device and cable, with external terminator. Same error.
    >
    >I am not convinced that this is a termination problem as I have also tried
    >all the above tests when the jumper on the external disk *was* installed and
    >got exactly the same results.
    >
    >Regards
    >
    >Rob


  13. Re: SCSI Cable Problem


    "Brian " wrote in message
    news:0nuso4-o8f.ln1@server.iron.net...
    >
    > What happens with just the cable plugged in, no device or terminator?
    >


    I assume you mean with the cable "dangling" without connecting it to
    anything. In that case I get this:

    08-00-2B-2C-90-84
    24MB

    ?? 001 9 NI 0172
    ?? 120 10 SCSI 0034

    >>> sh dev


    VMS/VMB ADDR DEVTYPE NUMBYTES RM/FX WP DEVNAM
    REV
    ------- ---- ------- -------- ----- -- ------
    ---
    ESA0 08-00-2B-2C-90-84
    A/2/0
    A/2/1
    A/2/2
    A/2/3
    A/2/4
    A/2/5
    A/2/6
    A/2/7
    ..HostID.. A/6 INITR


    > And, with the cable, device, and terminator, but with the device
    > turned off?
    >


    Exactly the same as above.

    > How long is the external cable?
    >


    It is about 1 metre long.

    Thanks

    Rob



  14. Re: SCSI Cable Problem

    Can someone please confirm that it is indeed a SCSI 1 (i.e. SCSI "one")
    cable that I need, and not any other type of cable, to connect external
    devices to my VLC?

    Thanks

    Rob


    "Robert Jarratt" wrote in message
    news:6O1vi.19058$6z6.10262@newsfe1-gui.ntli.net...
    >
    > "Brian " wrote in message
    > news:0nuso4-o8f.ln1@server.iron.net...
    >>
    >> What happens with just the cable plugged in, no device or terminator?
    >>

    >
    > I assume you mean with the cable "dangling" without connecting it to
    > anything. In that case I get this:
    >
    > 08-00-2B-2C-90-84
    > 24MB
    >
    > ?? 001 9 NI 0172
    > ?? 120 10 SCSI 0034
    >
    >>>> sh dev

    >
    > VMS/VMB ADDR DEVTYPE NUMBYTES RM/FX WP DEVNAM REV
    > ------- ---- ------- -------- ----- -- ------
    > ---
    > ESA0 08-00-2B-2C-90-84
    > A/2/0
    > A/2/1
    > A/2/2
    > A/2/3
    > A/2/4
    > A/2/5
    > A/2/6
    > A/2/7
    > ..HostID.. A/6 INITR
    >
    >
    >> And, with the cable, device, and terminator, but with the device
    >> turned off?
    >>

    >
    > Exactly the same as above.
    >
    >> How long is the external cable?
    >>

    >
    > It is about 1 metre long.
    >
    > Thanks
    >
    > Rob
    >




  15. Re: SCSI Cable Problem

    In article , "Robert Jarratt"
    writes:

    > I bought a generic 50-pin SCSI cable on eBay, with male centronics
    > connectors at each end, in order to connect an external CD-ROM drive to my
    > VAXstation 4000 VLC. The cable does not appear to work correctly, because if
    > I connect the same external unit to my VAXstation 3100 M38 it works fine.
    > The latter machine has a different type of cable with a 68-pin connector at
    > the VAXstation end.When I use the non-working cable the console SHOW DEVICE
    > command does not list any attached SCSI devices, including other ones I know
    > to work otherwise, and it seems to list all the possible SCSI Ids.
    >
    > I am assuming that this indicates a problem with the cable I bought. Are
    > there any particular characteristics I should be looking for other than
    > 50-pin centronics? Or do I just have a faulty cable?


    Is the (total) length too long?


  16. Re: SCSI Cable Problem

    On Aug 13, 12:59 pm, hel...@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---
    remove CLOTHES to reply) wrote:
    > In article , "Robert Jarratt"
    >
    > writes:
    > > I bought a generic 50-pin SCSI cable on eBay, with male centronics
    > > connectors at each end, in order to connect an external CD-ROM drive to my
    > > VAXstation 4000 VLC. The cable does not appear to work correctly, because if
    > > I connect the same external unit to my VAXstation 3100 M38 it works fine.
    > > The latter machine has a different type of cable with a 68-pin connector at
    > > the VAXstation end.When I use the non-working cable the console SHOW DEVICE
    > > command does not list any attached SCSI devices, including other ones I know
    > > to work otherwise, and it seems to list all the possible SCSI Ids.

    >
    > > I am assuming that this indicates a problem with the cable I bought. Are
    > > there any particular characteristics I should be looking for other than
    > > 50-pin centronics? Or do I just have a faulty cable?

    >
    > Is the (total) length too long?


    I have 2 VLC running with external DLT tape drives with 12inch cables
    and I have had no problems. I still have a number of systems using
    scsi 1 cables with no problems. I really do belive your cable is bad.
    phil


  17. Re: SCSI Cable Problem

    On 8 Aug, 00:39, "Robert Jarratt" wrote:
    > I bought a generic 50-pin SCSI cable on eBay, with male centronics
    > connectors at each end, in order to connect an external CD-ROM drive to my
    > VAXstation 4000 VLC. The cable does not appear to work correctly, because if
    > I connect the same external unit to my VAXstation 3100 M38 it works fine.
    > The latter machine has a different type of cable with a 68-pin connector at
    > the VAXstation end.When I use the non-working cable the console SHOW DEVICE
    > command does not list any attached SCSI devices, including other ones I know
    > to work otherwise, and it seems to list all the possible SCSI Ids.
    >
    > I am assuming that this indicates a problem with the cable I bought. Are
    > there any particular characteristics I should be looking for other than
    > 50-pin centronics? Or do I just have a faulty cable?


    If it gives the "all the LUNs" effect when just hanging there, there's
    definitely summat queer up.

    Out of curiosity, I've just made up one with ribbon cable, so I _know_
    it's just 1-1...50-50 rather than odd goings on inside. It works! I'll
    put it in the post.

    One thing I noticed with both my VLCs and several cables, DEC and
    otherwise, is that it's _very_ difficult to get the VLC end to stay
    in, even though the same plug mates easily elsewhere. Maybe DEC got an
    out-of-spec batch of sockets for VLCs? Doing up the clips with pliers
    and brute force seems to be essential.

    Finally, it seems that SHOW CONFIG only shows the external drive if it
    was connected on power-up. SHOW DEV only requires a working cable.

    Chris


  18. Re: SCSI Cable Problem

    chrisj.doran@proemail.co.uk wrote:

    > Finally, it seems that SHOW CONFIG only shows the external drive if it
    > was connected on power-up. SHOW DEV only requires a working cable.


    SHOW CONFIG shows the results of the last TEST SCSI command. TEST SCSI
    is run automatically at power up or may be run manually from the console
    if the configuration changes.


    --
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.

    Voice: 817-237-3360 Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com
    Fax: 817-237-3074

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