OT: Ownership of Ethernet - DEC

This is a discussion on OT: Ownership of Ethernet - DEC ; It is my understanding that Ethernet was developped jointly by Digital, Intel and Xerox. Recently, I got a new ADSL modem and in it, it had a mention that Ethernet was a trademark of Xerox corporation. If it were truly ...

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Thread: OT: Ownership of Ethernet

  1. OT: Ownership of Ethernet

    It is my understanding that Ethernet was developped jointly by Digital,
    Intel and Xerox.

    Recently, I got a new ADSL modem and in it, it had a mention that Ethernet
    was a trademark of Xerox corporation.

    If it were truly a "trademarked" product, shouldn't the caption mention
    Intel and HP as well as Xerox ?

    (This was a Thompson Speedtouch modem).

    It was my understanding that Ethernet set out, right from the start, to be
    an open standard without any royalties. Was that the case ?

  2. Re: OT: Ownership of Ethernet

    In article <3f1bb$45edc873$cef8887a$11937@TEKSAVVY.COM>, JF Mezei writes:
    >
    >
    >It is my understanding that Ethernet was developped jointly by Digital,
    >Intel and Xerox.
    >
    >Recently, I got a new ADSL modem and in it, it had a mention that Ethernet
    >was a trademark of Xerox corporation.
    >
    >If it were truly a "trademarked" product, shouldn't the caption mention
    >Intel and HP as well as Xerox ?
    >
    >(This was a Thompson Speedtouch modem).
    >
    >It was my understanding that Ethernet set out, right from the start, to be
    >an open standard without any royalties. Was that the case ?


    OK, for the record, I am not a lawyer (and I'm damn happy I'm not) but it
    is my unserstanding that a trademark governs the name. XEROX may have the
    name "Ethernet" trademarked but I do not believe it has any bearing on the
    technology. That would be governed by patent. If there was any patent, I
    am pretty sure that any patent privilege has long since expired.


    --
    VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM

    "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"

  3. Re: OT: Ownership of Ethernet

    On Tue, 06 Mar 2007 13:16:38 -0800, VAXman- <@SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote:

    > In article <3f1bb$45edc873$cef8887a$11937@TEKSAVVY.COM>, JF Mezei
    > writes:
    >>
    >>
    >> It is my understanding that Ethernet was developped jointly by Digital,
    >> Intel and Xerox.
    >>
    >> Recently, I got a new ADSL modem and in it, it had a mention that
    >> Ethernet
    >> was a trademark of Xerox corporation.
    >>
    >> If it were truly a "trademarked" product, shouldn't the caption mention
    >> Intel and HP as well as Xerox ?
    >>
    >> (This was a Thompson Speedtouch modem).
    >>
    >> It was my understanding that Ethernet set out, right from the start, to
    >> be
    >> an open standard without any royalties. Was that the case ?

    >
    > OK, for the record, I am not a lawyer (and I'm damn happy I'm not) but it
    > is my unserstanding that a trademark governs the name. XEROX may have
    > the
    > name "Ethernet" trademarked but I do not believe it has any bearing on
    > the
    > technology. That would be governed by patent. If there was any patent,
    > I
    > am pretty sure that any patent privilege has long since expired.
    >

    AIR it was developed by Xerox.



    --
    Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

  4. Re: OT: Ownership of Ethernet

    > OK, for the record, I am not a lawyer (and I'm damn happy I'm not)
    > but it is my unserstanding that a trademark governs the name. XEROX
    > may have the name "Ethernet" trademarked but I do not believe it has
    > any bearing on the technology. That would be governed by patent.
    > If there was any patent, I am pretty sure that any patent privilege
    > has long since expired.


    FWIW, a while back I scrounged this little blue book/pamphlet titled
    "The Ethernet A Local Area Network Data Link Layer and Physical Layer
    Specifications" version 1.0 dated September 30, 1980. It has a d i g
    i t a l, intel and XEROX set of logos on the front and inside it says:

    This specification includes subject matter relating to a patent(s)
    of Xerox Corporation.

    ISTR that patents in the US are for a term of 17 years unless there is
    some sort of extension, so the suggestion that the (initial) patents
    would have expired by now seems reasonable.

    rick jones

    the booklet is all of 82 pages long

    --
    denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance, rebirth...
    where do you want to be today?
    these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway...
    feel free to post, OR email to rick.jones2 in hp.com but NOT BOTH...

  5. Re: OT: Ownership of Ethernet

    In article <3f1bb$45edc873$cef8887a$11937@TEKSAVVY.COM>,
    JF Mezei wrote:

    > It is my understanding that Ethernet was developped jointly by Digital,
    > Intel and Xerox.
    >
    > Recently, I got a new ADSL modem and in it, it had a mention that Ethernet
    > was a trademark of Xerox corporation.
    >
    > If it were truly a "trademarked" product, shouldn't the caption mention
    > Intel and HP as well as Xerox ?
    >
    > (This was a Thompson Speedtouch modem).
    >
    > It was my understanding that Ethernet set out, right from the start, to be
    > an open standard without any royalties. Was that the case ?


    My memory says that the initial ethernet ideas came from Xerox.

    Fleshing out that idea into a robust commercial product is where
    Xerox joined forces with intel and Digital.

    Or at least that is my memory of things from reading things like
    EE Times and ComputerWorld at the time.

    Bob Harris

  6. Re: OT: Ownership of Ethernet

    JF Mezei writes:

    > It is my understanding that Ethernet was developped jointly by
    > Digital, Intel and Xerox.


    > Recently, I got a new ADSL modem and in it, it had a mention that
    > Ethernet was a trademark of Xerox corporation.


    > If it were truly a "trademarked" product, shouldn't the caption
    > mention Intel and HP as well as Xerox ?


    > (This was a Thompson Speedtouch modem).


    > It was my understanding that Ethernet set out, right from the start,
    > to be an open standard without any royalties. Was that the case ?


    It was. Xerox did the initial development, then joined forces with
    intel and dev to publish the spec and push it as an open standard.
    The only fee was was for purchasing an address block AIR.

  7. Re: OT: Ownership of Ethernet

    Bob Harris wrote:

    > In article <3f1bb$45edc873$cef8887a$11937@TEKSAVVY.COM>,
    > JF Mezei wrote:
    >
    >
    >>It is my understanding that Ethernet was developped jointly by Digital,
    >>Intel and Xerox.
    >>
    >>Recently, I got a new ADSL modem and in it, it had a mention that Ethernet
    >>was a trademark of Xerox corporation.
    >>
    >>If it were truly a "trademarked" product, shouldn't the caption mention
    >>Intel and HP as well as Xerox ?
    >>
    >>(This was a Thompson Speedtouch modem).
    >>
    >>It was my understanding that Ethernet set out, right from the start, to be
    >>an open standard without any royalties. Was that the case ?

    >
    >
    > My memory says that the initial ethernet ideas came from Xerox.
    >
    > Fleshing out that idea into a robust commercial product is where
    > Xerox joined forces with intel and Digital.
    >
    > Or at least that is my memory of things from reading things like
    > EE Times and ComputerWorld at the time.
    >
    > Bob Harris


    Some basic ethernet ideas were inspired by, if not directly based on,
    AlohaNet. Surf's up, dudes.
    --
    Cheers, Bob

  8. Re: OT: Ownership of Ethernet

    Paul Repacholi writes:

    > JF Mezei writes:
    >
    >> It is my understanding that Ethernet was developped jointly by
    >> Digital, Intel and Xerox.

    >
    >> Recently, I got a new ADSL modem and in it, it had a mention that
    >> Ethernet was a trademark of Xerox corporation.

    >
    >> If it were truly a "trademarked" product, shouldn't the caption
    >> mention Intel and HP as well as Xerox ?

    >
    >> (This was a Thompson Speedtouch modem).

    >
    >> It was my understanding that Ethernet set out, right from the start,
    >> to be an open standard without any royalties. Was that the case ?

    >
    > It was. Xerox did the initial development, then joined forces with
    > intel and dev to publish the spec and push it as an open standard.
    > The only fee was was for purchasing an address block AIR.


    Well, Uni of Honolulu did the original `Aloha Net' with radio, and then
    a 1Mb over cable CSMA/CD version. Xerox then the `Xerox Wire' 3Mb then
    the DIX 10Mb we all know and love.


  9. Re: OT: Ownership of Ethernet

    In article , Rick Jones writes:
    >
    >
    >> OK, for the record, I am not a lawyer (and I'm damn happy I'm not)
    >> but it is my unserstanding that a trademark governs the name. XEROX
    >> may have the name "Ethernet" trademarked but I do not believe it has
    >> any bearing on the technology. That would be governed by patent.
    >> If there was any patent, I am pretty sure that any patent privilege
    >> has long since expired.

    >
    >FWIW, a while back I scrounged this little blue book/pamphlet titled
    >"The Ethernet A Local Area Network Data Link Layer and Physical Layer
    >Specifications" version 1.0 dated September 30, 1980. It has a d i g
    >i t a l, intel and XEROX set of logos on the front and inside it says:
    >
    > This specification includes subject matter relating to a patent(s)
    > of Xerox Corporation.
    >
    >ISTR that patents in the US are for a term of 17 years unless there is
    >some sort of extension, so the suggestion that the (initial) patents
    >would have expired by now seems reasonable.
    >
    >rick jones
    >
    >the booklet is all of 82 pages long


    I don't have to scrounge! Mine is filed away on my bookshelf and it is
    easily found for reference. It's what I referenced prior to my post.

    --
    VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM

    "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"

  10. Re: OT: Ownership of Ethernet

    In article <87ps7lhbsw.fsf@k9.prep.synonet.com>,
    Paul Repacholi wrote:

    > JF Mezei writes:
    >
    > > It is my understanding that Ethernet was developped jointly by
    > > Digital, Intel and Xerox.

    >
    > > Recently, I got a new ADSL modem and in it, it had a mention that
    > > Ethernet was a trademark of Xerox corporation.

    >
    > > If it were truly a "trademarked" product, shouldn't the caption
    > > mention Intel and HP as well as Xerox ?

    >
    > > (This was a Thompson Speedtouch modem).

    >
    > > It was my understanding that Ethernet set out, right from the start,
    > > to be an open standard without any royalties. Was that the case ?

    >
    > It was. Xerox did the initial development, then joined forces with
    > intel and dev to publish the spec and push it as an open standard.
    > The only fee was was for purchasing an address block AIR.


    A concise early history is here:

    http://www2.rad.com/networks/2001/ethernet/hist.htm

    "The IEEE 802.3 standard is for a CSMA/CD LAN. Ethernet is a specific
    product that almost implements this standard (Ethernet differs from the
    standard in one header field).

    The IEEE 802.3 standard has an interesting history. In 1973 Xerox
    Corporations Palo Alto Research Center began the development of a bus*
    topology LAN. Later, in 1976, carrier sensing was added, and Xerox built
    a 2.94 Mbps* CSMA/CD system to connect over 100 personal workstations on
    a 1 km cable.

    Xerox Ethernet was so successful, that in 1980 Digital Equipment
    Corporation, Intel Corporation and Xerox had released a de facto
    standard* for a 10 Mbps Ethernet, informally called DIX Ethernet (for
    the initials of the 3 companies). This standard was a basis for the IEEE
    802.3.

    In 1983 IEEE 802.3 10Base5 was approved, in 1986 10Base2, in 1991
    10BaseT, in 1994-1995 10BaseF. In 1995 100 Mbps Ethernet was released,
    and in 1998-1999 Gigabit Ethernet."

    --
    Paul Sture

  11. Re: OT: Ownership of Ethernet

    In article <87649dgvnk.fsf@k9.prep.synonet.com>,
    Paul Repacholi writes:
    > Paul Repacholi writes:
    >
    >> JF Mezei writes:
    >>
    >>> It is my understanding that Ethernet was developped jointly by
    >>> Digital, Intel and Xerox.

    >>
    >>> Recently, I got a new ADSL modem and in it, it had a mention that
    >>> Ethernet was a trademark of Xerox corporation.

    >>
    >>> If it were truly a "trademarked" product, shouldn't the caption
    >>> mention Intel and HP as well as Xerox ?

    >>
    >>> (This was a Thompson Speedtouch modem).

    >>
    >>> It was my understanding that Ethernet set out, right from the start,
    >>> to be an open standard without any royalties. Was that the case ?

    >>
    >> It was. Xerox did the initial development, then joined forces with
    >> intel and dev to publish the spec and push it as an open standard.
    >> The only fee was was for purchasing an address block AIR.

    >
    > Well, Uni of Honolulu did the original `Aloha Net' with radio, and then
    > a 1Mb over cable CSMA/CD version. Xerox then the `Xerox Wire' 3Mb then
    > the DIX 10Mb we all know and love.
    >


    Where did ARCNet fall in this big picture? I know very few people offered
    it, but I do remember seeing it before my first ethernet.

    bill

    --
    Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
    bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
    University of Scranton |
    Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include

  12. Re: OT: Ownership of Ethernet

    Bill Gunshannon wrote:

    > Where did ARCNet fall in this big picture?


    Completely separate development by Datapoint. A document
    describing the original FRIL adapter can be found
    under http://bitsavers.org/pdf/datapoint/arcnet
    I've been promised some documentation on Arcnet development
    but don't have the scans yet.

    The initial "Xerox Wire" draft and Ethernet 1.0 and 2.0
    specs can be found under http://bitsavers.org/pdf/xerox/ethernet

    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


  13. Re: OT: Ownership of Ethernet

    In article <3f1bb$45edc873$cef8887a$11937@TEKSAVVY.COM>, JF Mezei writes:
    > It is my understanding that Ethernet was developped jointly by Digital,
    > Intel and Xerox.


    I think others were involved also.

    > Recently, I got a new ADSL modem and in it, it had a mention that Ethernet
    > was a trademark of Xerox corporation.
    >
    > If it were truly a "trademarked" product, shouldn't the caption mention
    > Intel and HP as well as Xerox ?


    Perhaps as part of development only Xerox tradmarked it.

    > (This was a Thompson Speedtouch modem).
    >
    > It was my understanding that Ethernet set out, right from the start, to be
    > an open standard without any royalties. Was that the case ?


    What is that standard? Can anybody build anything and claim it's
    Ethernet? Putting a trademark on it allows the developing group to
    prevent misuse of he name.

    It's like Sun's tradmark on Java. Anyone can write a Java compiler,
    JRE, and/or JIT. Most folks just start with Sun's code. But only
    Sun can say what Java is. So Microsoft got hauled to court when
    they made something else and called it Java.


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