Is it possible to boot OpenVMS from an IDE disk on an ES40? - DEC

This is a discussion on Is it possible to boot OpenVMS from an IDE disk on an ES40? - DEC ; Stephen Hoffman wrote: > [snip] > The whole box is emulated. > > That is orders of magnitude larger than an emulated IDE ATA disk > interface. This could be something in the structures leading back to > the controller ...

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Thread: Is it possible to boot OpenVMS from an IDE disk on an ES40?

  1. Re: Is it possible to boot OpenVMS from an IDE disk on an ES40?

    Stephen Hoffman wrote:
    > [snip]
    > The whole box is emulated.
    >
    > That is orders of magnitude larger than an emulated IDE ATA disk
    > interface. This could be something in the structures leading back to
    > the controller that's not quite right, or an instruction-level error, or
    > most anything else that could conceivably be wrong with "hardware".
    >
    > APB has not gotten as far along as the "real" OpenVMS drivers here.
    > APB and SYSBOOT both use APB-based drivers. Once SYSBOOT is rolling,
    > then more advanced drivers are loaded and activated.


    What we sem to be overlooking here also is that WRITEBOOT enables the PRIMARY
    bootstrap to find APB (the SECONDARY bootstrap). However, APB can't find SYSBOOT
    (the tertiary bootstrap).

    So, something else is at work here. Possibly something not quite kosher in the
    IDE emulation.

    --
    David J Dachtera
    dba DJE Systems
    http://www.djesys.com/

    Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page
    http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/

    Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:
    http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/

    Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page:
    http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/

    Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:
    http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/

  2. Re: Is it possible to boot OpenVMS from an IDE disk on an ES40?

    In article <1172227848.363049.45770@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.c om>,
    "Camiel" wrote:

    > I created the image as follows: I took the original OpenVMS 8.3
    > installation CD-ROM, and used Nero to extract an ISO image from it.
    > This should result in a flat file, that has all the data on the CD in
    > it.


    In my (admittedly limited) experience, Nero is worthless for creating
    images that are useable by anything but Nero. I had a VAX boot image
    created by Nero that neither SIMH nor LDDRIVER could make any sense at
    all out of. I had to obtain a copy of Nero, burn an actual CD from it,
    then take an image of the CD using a tool that didn't do so much
    interpretation of what a CD image should have on it. Then SIMH was
    happy. I used Mac OS X's Disk Utility to create the image from the CD.
    On Linux, you can probably just use the dd command. It may be that
    Nero has the ability to create an image correctly if you find a way to
    turn off all its advanced features and compression and so on, but it
    seems like it would be prudent to remove Nero from the equation first
    and only resort to disassembling the VMS boot sequence once you've
    reproduced the problem using a disk image created in one or more other
    ways.

    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


  3. Re: Is it possible to boot OpenVMS from an IDE disk on an ES40?

    In article ,
    Craig A. Berry wrote:
    >In article <1172227848.363049.45770@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.c om>,
    > "Camiel" wrote:
    >
    >> I created the image as follows: I took the original OpenVMS 8.3
    >> installation CD-ROM, and used Nero to extract an ISO image from it.
    >> This should result in a flat file, that has all the data on the CD in
    >> it.

    >
    >In my (admittedly limited) experience, Nero is worthless for creating
    >images that are useable by anything but Nero. I had a VAX boot image
    >created by Nero that neither SIMH nor LDDRIVER could make any sense at
    >all out of. I had to obtain a copy of Nero, burn an actual CD from it,
    >then take an image of the CD using a tool that didn't do so much
    >interpretation of what a CD image should have on it. Then SIMH was
    >happy. I used Mac OS X's Disk Utility to create the image from the CD.


    Nero's default saved file type is not an ISO... to get an ISO you have
    to select the option to save it as an ISO image. I've done it with the
    Nero 6 Ultra suite of programs.

    > On Linux, you can probably just use the dd command. It may be that
    >Nero has the ability to create an image correctly if you find a way to
    >turn off all its advanced features and compression and so on, but it
    >seems like it would be prudent to remove Nero from the equation first
    >and only resort to disassembling the VMS boot sequence once you've
    >reproduced the problem using a disk image created in one or more other
    >ways.
    >


    Make sure you're not saving as an .nrg (IIRC).
    There's definitely a way to use it to write a straight iso. There's
    write to Image Recorder option that will write a straight iso IIRC.

    I usually use my Linux or FreeBSD box for this...though.

    >--
    >Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
    >


    Bill

    --
    --
    "When I think back on all the crap I learned in Vax school
    It's a wonder I fixed anything at all." (to the tune of Kodachrome)
    pechter-at-ureach.com

  4. Re: Is it possible to boot OpenVMS from an IDE disk on an ES40?


    "William Pechter" wrote in message
    news:t92dnQvKt4uoCn3YnZ2dnUVZ_oLinZ2d@comcast.com. ..



    Once upon a time, the simple but effective and reliable DOS-based tools I
    used to use to take a block for block copy of a CD and put it in a file
    (sometimes loosely referred to as an ISO image), and do the inverse, from
    such an image file to a CD, were Goldenhawk's freeware tools CD2file and
    file2CD. They still seem to be available, and probably still work for this
    kind of thing, without the confusion introduced by things like Nero trying
    to be "helpful". I have to admit I haven't used them for ages though.

    http://www.goldenhawk.com/freeware.htm

    hth
    John



  5. Re: Is it possible to boot OpenVMS from an IDE disk on an ES40?

    John Wallace wrote:
    > used to use to take a block for block copy of a CD and put it in a file
    > (sometimes loosely referred to as an ISO image),


    $BACKUP/PHYSICAL


    I recently used this to coopy a 1gig disk to a container file , on which I
    was then able to use DFU to undelete files. (without jeorperdizing the
    original drive).

  6. Re: Is it possible to boot OpenVMS from an IDE disk on an ES40?

    David J Dachtera wrote:
    > Stephen Hoffman wrote:
    >> [snip]
    >> The whole box is emulated.
    >>
    >> That is orders of magnitude larger than an emulated IDE ATA disk
    >> interface. This could be something in the structures leading back to
    >> the controller that's not quite right, or an instruction-level error, or
    >> most anything else that could conceivably be wrong with "hardware".
    >>
    >> APB has not gotten as far along as the "real" OpenVMS drivers here.
    >> APB and SYSBOOT both use APB-based drivers. Once SYSBOOT is rolling,
    >> then more advanced drivers are loaded and activated.

    >
    > What we sem to be overlooking here also is that WRITEBOOT enables the PRIMARY
    > bootstrap to find APB (the SECONDARY bootstrap). However, APB can't find SYSBOOT
    > (the tertiary bootstrap).



    APB.EXE is the primary bootstrap for OpenVMS Alpha.

    SYSBOOT.EXE is the secondary bootstrap.

    The WRITEBOOT and SET BOOTBLOCK tools manage and update the boot
    block pointers, which will reference the block location and block length
    of the contiguous primary bootstrap image APB.EXE, and it is APB.EXE
    that is loaded by the console, and which when activated then looks for
    and loads the secondary bootstrap image SYSBOOT.EXE.

    The SRM console bootstrap processing builds the structures related to
    what it wishes to present to the booting system as the current system
    configuration (structures incidentally also form the basis for Galaxy),
    uses the pointers to perform a block transfer of the specified disk
    block range into memory, and to transfer control to it.

    Once activated for the initial bootstrap sequence, APB.EXE uses its
    in-build primitive file system and primitive drivers, while SYSBOOT.EXE
    use similar pieces from APB.EXE for its initial processing while
    initializing the address space, loading the executive images and the
    rest of the real kernel and the real run-time.

    If APB.EXE isn't finding SYSBOOT, then the drivers or the primitive
    file system are not finding what is expected. A failure within the
    driver processing could point to an error within the emulation. Though
    should the primitive file system be returning a valid %x910 file not
    found error condition, that could point to a problem with the disk image
    itself.

    > So, something else is at work here. Possibly something not quite kosher in the
    > IDE emulation.


    Which is why I quoted the word "hardware", and mentioned the whole
    box is emulated. An emulator is "hardware", and "hardware" can have bugs.

    --

    There are different versions and packages of these Windows disk
    replication tools, and some work quite nicely and some do not. Some
    have confusing or cryptic or ambiguous command sequences, as well.

    --

    As for testing, confirm the replication matches the distro. (One
    case of weirdness in this area showed a case where LD and XFC did not
    play well together. That's been fixed, but it was rather weird to see
    the comparison of the backing file and the device and the replicated
    medium showing different data.)


    Hoff

    --
    www.HoffmanLabs.com
    Services for OpenVMS

  7. Re: Is it possible to boot OpenVMS from an IDE disk on an ES40?

    In article <45e1d18d$0$8730$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>,
    "John Wallace" wrote:

    > "William Pechter" wrote in message
    > news:t92dnQvKt4uoCn3YnZ2dnUVZ_oLinZ2d@comcast.com. ..
    >
    >
    >
    > Once upon a time, the simple but effective and reliable DOS-based tools I
    > used to use to take a block for block copy of a CD and put it in a file
    > (sometimes loosely referred to as an ISO image), and do the inverse, from
    > such an image file to a CD, were Goldenhawk's freeware tools CD2file and
    > file2CD. They still seem to be available, and probably still work for this
    > kind of thing, without the confusion introduced by things like Nero trying
    > to be "helpful". I have to admit I haven't used them for ages though.
    >
    > http://www.goldenhawk.com/freeware.htm
    >


    Going back 10 years to when I was using NT 4, the accepted wisdom then
    was to us a DOS or Win95 CD burning program rather than an NT one, to
    ensure that the CD drive got the undivided attention of the processor.
    (ISTR that the CD burners of the day didn't have much in the way of on
    board memory for buffers).

    --
    Paul Sture

  8. Re: Is it possible to boot OpenVMS from an IDE disk on an ES40?

    In article <1172227848.363049.45770@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.c om>, "Camiel" writes:
    > AlphaServer ES40 Console V7.2-1, built on Jun 9 2006 at 15:36:48
    >
    > CPU 0 booting
    >
    > (boot dqa0.0.0.15.0 -flags 0,0)
    > block 0 of dqa0.0.0.15.0 is a valid boot block
    > reading 1226 blocks from dqa0.0.0.15.0
    > bootstrap code read in
    > base = 200000, image_start = 0, image_bytes = 99400(627712)
    > initializing HWRPB at 2000
    > initializing page table at 7f56000
    > initializing machine state
    > setting affinity to the primary CPU
    > jumping to bootstrap code
    > %APB-I-FILENOTLOC, Unable to locate SYSBOOT.EXE
    > %APB-I-LOADFAIL, Failed to load secondary bootstrap, status = 00000910


    [...]

    > I created the image as follows: I took the original OpenVMS 8.3
    > installation CD-ROM, and used Nero to extract an ISO image from it.
    > This should result in a flat file, that has all the data on the CD in
    > it. SRM accesses the disk in LBA (logical block addressing) mode, so
    > geometry (cylinders, heads, sectors) should not be an issue. In fact,
    > this seems to be demonstrated already by the fact that SRM manages to
    > load the primary bootstrap image (APB.EXE).


    Don't use Nero. Use a VMS system to copy the blocks to a file [there's
    also dd under Linux].

    I have moved VMS CD images via simple COPY commands. From memory,

    $ SET RMS/EXTEND=64000 ! Speeds things up by avoiding outfile fragmentation
    $ MOUNT/FOREIGN DKA500:
    $ COPY DKA500UMMYNAME CDIMAGE.BINARY
    $ SET FILE CDIMAGE.BINARY /END_OF_FILE ! Use if error causes filesize = 0
    ! Could also use $ SET FILE/ATTRIB=...

    Ignore the error message about running off the end of the source disk -
    COPY does not understand that it is reading a foreign mounted volume.

    Note that you can check by copying the blocks to a magnetic disk on your
    (real) VMS host. You can probably mount both devices /FOREIGN to do the
    copy, remembering that you need a dummy filename for source and destination.

    [Note: such a copy OVERWRITES the target disk.]

    VMS should be willing to ignore the fact that the image described by the
    volume structure is smaller than the physical disk. It behaves as if the
    unused blocks are lost, or are part of BADBLK.SYS .

    --
    George Cornelius cornelius()eisner.decus.org
    cornelius()mayo.edu

  9. Re: Is it possible to boot OpenVMS from an IDE disk on an ES40?

    Stephen Hoffman wrote:
    >
    > David J Dachtera wrote:
    > > Stephen Hoffman wrote:
    > >> [snip]
    > >> The whole box is emulated.
    > >>
    > >> That is orders of magnitude larger than an emulated IDE ATA disk
    > >> interface. This could be something in the structures leading back to
    > >> the controller that's not quite right, or an instruction-level error, or
    > >> most anything else that could conceivably be wrong with "hardware".
    > >>
    > >> APB has not gotten as far along as the "real" OpenVMS drivers here.
    > >> APB and SYSBOOT both use APB-based drivers. Once SYSBOOT is rolling,
    > >> then more advanced drivers are loaded and activated.

    > >
    > > What we sem to be overlooking here also is that WRITEBOOT enables the PRIMARY
    > > bootstrap to find APB (the SECONDARY bootstrap). However, APB can't find SYSBOOT
    > > (the tertiary bootstrap).

    >
    > APB.EXE is the primary bootstrap for OpenVMS Alpha.
    >
    > SYSBOOT.EXE is the secondary bootstrap.


    I start counting one layer lower:

    Boot block - Primary (WRITEBOOT "patches" it so APB can be found)
    APB - Secondary
    SYSBOOT - Tertiary

    --
    David J Dachtera
    dba DJE Systems
    http://www.djesys.com/

    Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page
    http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/

    Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:
    http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/

    Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page:
    http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/

    Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:
    http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/

  10. Re: Is it possible to boot OpenVMS from an IDE disk on an ES40?

    "Craig A. Berry" wrote:
    >
    > In article <1172227848.363049.45770@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.c om>,
    > "Camiel" wrote:
    >
    > > I created the image as follows: I took the original OpenVMS 8.3
    > > installation CD-ROM, and used Nero to extract an ISO image from it.
    > > This should result in a flat file, that has all the data on the CD in
    > > it.

    >
    > In my (admittedly limited) experience, Nero is worthless for creating
    > images that are useable by anything but Nero.


    Sounds like Easy CD Creator. V4 and later will "rip" the track, but in a
    proprietary format - not a true disk image. For "ripping" CD-ROM tracks, I use
    Gear.

    > I had a VAX boot image
    > created by Nero that neither SIMH nor LDDRIVER could make any sense at
    > all out of.


    Similar to Easy CD Creator.

    > On Linux, you can probably just use the dd command.


    Recommended for UN*X environments.

    BACKUP/PHYSICAL works in VMS-land, as does MOUNT/FOREIGN followed by COPY from
    the device to a disk file (produces a Fixed-512 file - ignore the error when
    COPY finishes, the output will be intact).

    --
    David J Dachtera
    dba DJE Systems
    http://www.djesys.com/

    Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page
    http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/

    Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:
    http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/

    Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page:
    http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/

    Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:
    http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/

  11. Re: Is it possible to boot OpenVMS from an IDE disk on an ES40?

    George Cornelius wrote:
    > [snip]
    > Don't use Nero. Use a VMS system to copy the blocks to a file [there's
    > also dd under Linux].
    >
    > I have moved VMS CD images via simple COPY commands. From memory,
    >
    > $ SET RMS/EXTEND=64000 ! Speeds things up by avoiding outfile fragmentation
    > $ MOUNT/FOREIGN DKA500:
    > $ COPY DKA500UMMYNAME CDIMAGE.BINARY
    > $ SET FILE CDIMAGE.BINARY /END_OF_FILE ! Use if error causes filesize = 0
    > ! Could also use $ SET FILE/ATTRIB=...


    Should not need the SET FILE commands. The result will be Fixed-512 and, even
    though COPY terminates with an error (doesn't seem to understand "end of medium
    on device" as we did in Basic Plus-2), the output file will be intact.

    > Ignore the error message about running off the end of the source disk -
    > COPY does not understand that it is reading a foreign mounted volume.
    >
    > Note that you can check by copying the blocks to a magnetic disk on your
    > (real) VMS host. You can probably mount both devices /FOREIGN to do the
    > copy, remembering that you need a dummy filename for source and destination.
    >
    > [Note: such a copy OVERWRITES the target disk.]


    Similar to using DD in UN*X-land. A disk MOUNTed/Foreign is essentially a "raw"
    device, though not quite the same.

    > VMS should be willing to ignore the fact that the image described by the
    > volume structure is smaller than the physical disk. It behaves as if the
    > unused blocks are lost, or are part of BADBLK.SYS .


    It writes what it reads. Geometry mismatch between the source and target may or
    may not cause issues. The source must have a clustersize that's consistent with
    the geometry reported by the target device; else, the target might not be able
    to be MOUNTed file-oriented.

    --
    David J Dachtera
    dba DJE Systems
    http://www.djesys.com/

    Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page
    http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/

    Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:
    http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/

    Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page:
    http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/

    Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:
    http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/

  12. Re: Is it possible to boot OpenVMS from an IDE disk on an ES40?

    John Wallace wrote:
    >
    > "William Pechter" wrote in message
    > news:t92dnQvKt4uoCn3YnZ2dnUVZ_oLinZ2d@comcast.com. ..
    >
    >
    >
    > Once upon a time, the simple but effective and reliable DOS-based tools I
    > used to use to take a block for block copy of a CD and put it in a file
    > (sometimes loosely referred to as an ISO image), and do the inverse, from
    > such an image file to a CD, were Goldenhawk's freeware tools CD2file and
    > file2CD. They still seem to be available, and probably still work for this
    > kind of thing, without the confusion introduced by things like Nero trying
    > to be "helpful". I have to admit I haven't used them for ages though.
    >
    > http://www.goldenhawk.com/freeware.htm


    I was unable to find a download link for the freeware described at that URL.

    --
    David J Dachtera
    dba DJE Systems
    http://www.djesys.com/

    Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page
    http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/

    Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:
    http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/

    Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page:
    http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/

    Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:
    http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/

  13. Re: Is it possible to boot OpenVMS from an IDE disk on an ES40?


    "David J Dachtera" wrote in message
    news:45E4F593.64F10254@spam.comcast.net...

    > > http://www.goldenhawk.com/freeware.htm

    >
    > I was unable to find a download link for the freeware described at that

    URL.
    >


    It's there, but apparently slightly hidden The freeware page tells you
    what's available for free, and says "NOTE: The freeware programs are
    included with the rest of the DOS programs on the download page." When you
    go to the download page (via the "download area" button on lhs of the
    freeware page), pick one of the MS-DOS downloads, which will include the
    freeware. You'll need to enter a name and an email address before
    downloading.

    Good luck,
    hth
    John



  14. Re: Is it possible to boot OpenVMS from an IDE disk on an ES40?


    "David J Dachtera" wrote in message
    news:45E4F22A.1498DB13@spam.comcast.net...
    > Stephen Hoffman wrote:
    >>
    >> David J Dachtera wrote:
    >> > Stephen Hoffman wrote:
    >> >> [snip]
    >> >> The whole box is emulated.
    >> >>
    >> >> That is orders of magnitude larger than an emulated IDE ATA disk
    >> >> interface. This could be something in the structures leading back to
    >> >> the controller that's not quite right, or an instruction-level error,
    >> >> or
    >> >> most anything else that could conceivably be wrong with "hardware".
    >> >>
    >> >> APB has not gotten as far along as the "real" OpenVMS drivers here.
    >> >> APB and SYSBOOT both use APB-based drivers. Once SYSBOOT is rolling,
    >> >> then more advanced drivers are loaded and activated.
    >> >
    >> > What we sem to be overlooking here also is that WRITEBOOT enables the
    >> > PRIMARY
    >> > bootstrap to find APB (the SECONDARY bootstrap). However, APB can't
    >> > find SYSBOOT
    >> > (the tertiary bootstrap).

    >>
    >> APB.EXE is the primary bootstrap for OpenVMS Alpha.
    >>
    >> SYSBOOT.EXE is the secondary bootstrap.

    >
    > I start counting one layer lower:
    >
    > Boot block - Primary (WRITEBOOT "patches" it so APB can be found)
    > APB - Secondary
    > SYSBOOT - Tertiary
    >


    You can count any way you like... you will just differ in terminology from
    the rest of the world.

    The boot block isn't a bootstrap. It just tells you how to find the primary
    bootstrap (it isn't code, it's a pointer). APB stands for Alpha Primary
    Bootstrap. APB uses a primitive filesystem to lookup the secondary
    bootstrap - SYSBOOT.

    Now IPF on the other hand... VMS_LOADER is really the primary bootstrap and
    is located by the FW doing a FAT filesystem lookup. IPB despite it's name
    is a secondary bootstrap that serves the same purpose as APB. But we don't
    call VMS_LOADER the primary bootstrap - it is just the "glue" between the
    EFI firmware layer and getting to the VMS bootstrap code.






  15. Re: Is it possible to boot OpenVMS from an IDE disk on an ES40?

    FredK wrote:
    > The boot block isn't a bootstrap. It just tells you how to find the primary
    > bootstrap (it isn't code, it's a pointer).


    But it could be argued that the primary bootstrap is the firmware (aka SRM
    , EFI etc). It is the one that initiates the booting procedure and finds
    the boot block at a location specific to that architecture and then handles
    that information in its own way to transfer control to the OS.


    > APB stands for Alpha Primary
    > Bootstrap. APB uses a primitive filesystem to lookup the secondary
    > bootstrap - SYSBOOT.



    In the case of a satellite booting via MOP, I take it APB.EXE has logic for
    both local disk as well as MSCP served drives ?

    Also, it is correct to state that the MOP server will append a couple of
    files (such as the SYSGEN parameter file, location of system root and
    probably other stuff as well ?

    Out of curiosity, how does APB know whether it has been invoked "locally"
    or via MSCP ?

    I take it that APB.EXE, upon detecting it was MOPped will scan for data
    after itself and parse it and then store in in the console memory ?

    When a system crashes, how does the console know how to write the dumpfile
    on a remove MSCP served disk ? ABP may have stored the location of the
    remote root, but does it also place a MSCP software for the console to use
    even if the system has crashed ?


  16. Re: Is it possible to boot OpenVMS from an IDE disk on an ES40?


    "JF Mezei" wrote in message
    news:227d7$45e59416$cef8887a$16599@TEKSAVVY.COM...
    > FredK wrote:
    >> The boot block isn't a bootstrap. It just tells you how to find the
    >> primary bootstrap (it isn't code, it's a pointer).

    >
    > But it could be argued that the primary bootstrap is the firmware (aka SRM
    > , EFI etc). It is the one that initiates the booting procedure and finds
    > the boot block at a location specific to that architecture and then
    > handles that information in its own way to transfer control to the OS.
    >


    And you can argue that the serial ROM is the precursor to the SRM. It
    doesn't really matter. As far as VMS is concerned, APB is the primary VMS
    bootstrap.


    > In the case of a satellite booting via MOP, I take it APB.EXE has logic
    > for both local disk as well as MSCP served drives ?
    >


    The primary bootstrap has built-in drivers for disks and LAN - or it calls
    the SRM driver for the boot devices (it is a mix, we originally wanted to
    switch to always using the SRM drivers - but in some cases like LAN - our
    own drivers were much faster than the SRM code. The SRM leaves us
    information that allows us to determine the boot devices.




  17. Re: Is it possible to boot OpenVMS from an IDE disk on an ES40?

    on 26-2-2007 22:17 George Cornelius wrote...
    [snip]
    >
    > I have moved VMS CD images via simple COPY commands. From memory,
    >
    > $ SET RMS/EXTEND=64000 ! Speeds things up by avoiding outfile fragmentation
    > $ MOUNT/FOREIGN DKA500:
    > $ COPY DKA500UMMYNAME CDIMAGE.BINARY
    > $ SET FILE CDIMAGE.BINARY /END_OF_FILE ! Use if error causes filesize = 0
    > ! Could also use $ SET FILE/ATTRIB=...


    Indeed. This leaves you with a disk image that is MOUNTable with LD, or
    useable with SIMH or CHARON-xxx, even after ftp'ing it to the world
    outside VMS.

    /Wilm

  18. Re: Is it possible to boot OpenVMS from an IDE disk on an ES40?

    FredK wrote:
    >
    > "David J Dachtera" wrote in message
    > news:45E4F22A.1498DB13@spam.comcast.net...
    > > Stephen Hoffman wrote:
    > >>
    > >> David J Dachtera wrote:
    > >> > Stephen Hoffman wrote:
    > >> >> [snip]
    > >> >> The whole box is emulated.
    > >> >>
    > >> >> That is orders of magnitude larger than an emulated IDE ATA disk
    > >> >> interface. This could be something in the structures leading back to
    > >> >> the controller that's not quite right, or an instruction-level error,
    > >> >> or
    > >> >> most anything else that could conceivably be wrong with "hardware".
    > >> >>
    > >> >> APB has not gotten as far along as the "real" OpenVMS drivers here.
    > >> >> APB and SYSBOOT both use APB-based drivers. Once SYSBOOT is rolling,
    > >> >> then more advanced drivers are loaded and activated.
    > >> >
    > >> > What we sem to be overlooking here also is that WRITEBOOT enables the
    > >> > PRIMARY
    > >> > bootstrap to find APB (the SECONDARY bootstrap). However, APB can't
    > >> > find SYSBOOT
    > >> > (the tertiary bootstrap).
    > >>
    > >> APB.EXE is the primary bootstrap for OpenVMS Alpha.
    > >>
    > >> SYSBOOT.EXE is the secondary bootstrap.

    > >
    > > I start counting one layer lower:
    > >
    > > Boot block - Primary (WRITEBOOT "patches" it so APB can be found)
    > > APB - Secondary
    > > SYSBOOT - Tertiary
    > >

    >
    > You can count any way you like... you will just differ in terminology from
    > the rest of the world.
    >
    > The boot block isn't a bootstrap. It just tells you how to find the primary
    > bootstrap (it isn't code, it's a pointer).


    ....in VMS-land. Elsewhere, the "bootblock" is still the "primitive (primary)
    loader" that reads from a certain disk address for so many sectors into memory
    beginning at a specific address, then transfers control to that pre-determined
    address in memory.

    I remember keying a bootstrap program into a DG Nova-3 from the front panel,
    setting the start address, then hitting the "Run" button...

    --
    David J Dachtera
    dba DJE Systems
    http://www.djesys.com/

    Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page
    http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/

    Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:
    http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/

    Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page:
    http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/

    Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:
    http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/

  19. Re: Is it possible to boot OpenVMS from an IDE disk on an ES40?

    John Wallace wrote:
    >
    > "David J Dachtera" wrote in message
    > news:45E4F593.64F10254@spam.comcast.net...
    >
    > > > http://www.goldenhawk.com/freeware.htm

    > >
    > > I was unable to find a download link for the freeware described at that

    > URL.
    > >

    >
    > It's there, but apparently slightly hidden The freeware page tells you
    > what's available for free, and says "NOTE: The freeware programs are
    > included with the rest of the DOS programs on the download page." When you
    > go to the download page (via the "download area" button on lhs of the
    > freeware page), pick one of the MS-DOS downloads, which will include the
    > freeware. You'll need to enter a name and an email address before
    > downloading.


    Thanx! Got it!

    --
    David J Dachtera
    dba DJE Systems
    http://www.djesys.com/

    Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page
    http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/

    Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:
    http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/

    Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page:
    http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/

    Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:
    http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/

  20. Re: Is it possible to boot OpenVMS from an IDE disk on an ES40?

    David J Dachtera wrote in
    news:45E62DBA.38F6778A@spam.comcast.net:

    >>
    >> You can count any way you like... you will just differ in
    >> terminology from the rest of the world.
    >>
    >> The boot block isn't a bootstrap. It just tells you how to find the
    >> primary bootstrap (it isn't code, it's a pointer).

    >
    > ...in VMS-land. Elsewhere, the "bootblock" is still the "primitive
    > (primary) loader" that reads from a certain disk address for so many
    > sectors into memory beginning at a specific address, then transfers
    > control to that pre-determined address in memory.
    >
    > I remember keying a bootstrap program into a DG Nova-3 from the front
    > panel, setting the start address, then hitting the "Run" button...
    >


    Then doesn't that make you the primary bootstrap? :-^)

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